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#973409 - 10/19/09 01:23 PM Bring em on says Sherron
JHAWKinKY Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 11/01/07
Loc: Back Where I Belong


Edited by JHAWKinKY (10/19/09 01:26 PM)
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#973410 - 10/19/09 01:29 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JHAWKinKY]
larryb Offline
Gutter

Registered: 05/02/07
Loc: Work
"and I ain't gonna let no young boy get the best of me."

I like the quote.
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Rock Chalk my brothers and sisters!

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#973411 - 10/19/09 01:29 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JHAWKinKY]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
We'll see. It's entirely possible Wall is better. I don't know if he can shoot.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973412 - 10/19/09 01:33 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
jayhwk01 Offline
Timmy's Nemesis

Registered: 01/22/05
Loc: Mt. Oread's Shadow
What we know about Wall's ability in the college game is zip, zero, nada, zilch. Until proven otherwise give me the experienced senior with the ring.
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kusports.net Peace Out and Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

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#973413 - 10/19/09 01:34 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
horton_hombre Offline
John Brown

Registered: 03/20/05
Loc: Got a gal in Kalamazoo
I just hope Sherron doesn't turn it into another ego thing if we meet Wall & UK, as happened w/ Syracuse & Johnny Flynn.
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"Seriously, though, are you mentally ill or impaired in some way?" --WDNS2011

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#973414 - 10/19/09 01:35 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: jayhwk01]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Sherron's got his warts, too. Whether he's just a great guard or an All-American, POY-type guard will depend on how much he has matured since last season.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973415 - 10/19/09 01:36 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: horton_hombre]
jayhwk01 Offline
Timmy's Nemesis

Registered: 01/22/05
Loc: Mt. Oread's Shadow
My guess is SC might have learned something from the Flynn experience. I would rather have a PG with a bit of an ego than one who thinks he is second best.
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kusports.net Peace Out and Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

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#973416 - 10/19/09 01:37 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: horton_hombre]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

I just hope Sherron doesn't turn it into another ego thing if we meet Wall & UK, as happened w/ Syracuse & Johnny Flynn.




Happened with Oklahoma and Willie Warren, too.

It's the Sherron Collins Experience.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973417 - 10/19/09 01:37 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
jayhwk01 Offline
Timmy's Nemesis

Registered: 01/22/05
Loc: Mt. Oread's Shadow
Quote:

Sherron's got his warts, too. Whether he's just a great guard or an All-American, POY-type guard will depend on how much he has matured since last season.




Warts and all I will still take a senior "ranked" as number two and a lot of big game experience over a guy ranked #1 that has not seen the court yet.
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kusports.net Peace Out and Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

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#973418 - 10/19/09 01:39 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: jayhwk01]
JHAWKinKY Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 11/01/07
Loc: Back Where I Belong
I'll take the guy that scored 32 in an NCAA tournament game vs. a guy who led his team to a 17-11 record.....in high school.
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#973419 - 10/19/09 01:43 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JHAWKinKY]
ross52066 Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/20/05
It's hard to compare them right now, but I'm guessing that Parrish is making this call based on the coaches. Self will change his coaching style around his team. Self has already stated that Collins will not shoot as much this year as he did last year. On the other hand, Calipari will just give the keys to the bus to Wall and let him play like he did Tyreke Evans last year and Rose the year before that.

Wall might possibly put up better numbers, but I'm sure Sherron doesn't care who is scoring when April rolls around.

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#973420 - 10/19/09 01:43 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JHAWKinKY]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

I'll take the guy that scored 32 in an NCAA tournament game vs. a guy who led his team to a 17-11 record.....in high school.




Taking things out of context is fun, isn't it?

Look...I know I'm coming off as awfully anti-Sherron. I think he's the better college basketball player this season. But I don't think it's patently unreasonable to go the other way. And last year, Sherron scared me as much as he thrilled me. There's still a part of me that can see our season end on a wild shot or ill-advised bullrush drive. We knew how our season would end last year, and it happened just as we expected.

If Sherron learned what he needed to learn from that, he might be the best player in college basketball. I certainly hope this is the case. I am eager to see our performances against Memphis, UCLA, Michigan, Cal, Temple, and Tennessee.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973421 - 10/19/09 01:45 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: ross52066]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

Wall might possibly put up better numbers, but I'm sure Sherron doesn't care who is scoring when April rolls around.




Maybe this is true. I believe that Sherron doesn't care who's scoring if we're up ten. But I get a feeling that in close-and-late situations, he might think our only play is to clear out with 12 seconds on the clock and let him go to work.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973422 - 10/19/09 01:49 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
JHAWKinKY Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 11/01/07
Loc: Back Where I Belong
Quote:

Quote:

I'll take the guy that scored 32 in an NCAA tournament game vs. a guy who led his team to a 17-11 record.....in high school.




Taking things out of context is fun, isn't it?

Look...I know I'm coming off as awfully anti-Sherron. I think he's the better college basketball player this season. But I don't think it's patently unreasonable to go the other way. And last year, Sherron scared me as much as he thrilled me. There's still a part of me that can see our season end on a wild shot or ill-advised bullrush drive. We knew how our season would end last year, and it happened just as we expected.

If Sherron learned what he needed to learn from that, he might be the best player in college basketball. I certainly hope this is the case. I am eager to see our performances against Memphis, UCLA, Michigan, Cal, Temple, and Tennessee.




What am I taking out of context?
P.S. You're more Gutter than Gutter on this thread. What gives?
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#973423 - 10/19/09 01:50 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
hasbeen Offline
Zipper Jiggler

Registered: 06/23/05
Quote:

Quote:

I'll take the guy that scored 32 in an NCAA tournament game vs. a guy who led his team to a 17-11 record.....in high school.




Taking things out of context is fun, isn't it?

Look...I know I'm coming off as awfully anti-Sherron. I think he's the better college basketball player this season. But I don't think it's patently unreasonable to go the other way. And last year, Sherron scared me as much as he thrilled me. There's still a part of me that can see our season end on a wild shot or ill-advised bullrush drive. We knew how our season would end last year, and it happened just as we expected.

If Sherron learned what he needed to learn from that, he might be the best player in college basketball. I certainly hope this is the case. I am eager to see our performances against Memphis, UCLA, Michigan, Cal, Temple, and Tennessee.




You've long been a Sherron hater. Your posts today have nothing to do with it.
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#973424 - 10/19/09 01:51 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
larryb Offline
Gutter

Registered: 05/02/07
Loc: Work
I hope Wall is the best Freshman I have ever seen. I hope Wall wins the Naismith. I hope Wall is the first pick in the 2010 NBA Draft.

I hope Sherron's team wins the National Championship.

I really don't care for personal accolades as much as I care for team accolades.

Thank you Parrish for helping to light a fire (temporary or not) under Collins.
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#973425 - 10/19/09 01:52 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
ross52066 Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/20/05
Quote:

Quote:

Wall might possibly put up better numbers, but I'm sure Sherron doesn't care who is scoring when April rolls around.




Maybe this is true. I believe that Sherron doesn't care who's scoring if we're up ten. But I get a feeling that in close-and-late situations, he might think our only play is to clear out with 12 seconds on the clock and let him go to work.




Well, then the answer is just to keep ourselves out of close-and-late situations and blow away every team we play this year by at least 10 pts.

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#973426 - 10/19/09 01:54 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JHAWKinKY]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Talking about Wall's high school record is pretty useless, isn't it? And isn't the point that Sherron shouldn't care how much he scores this year?

I'm not being negative for the sake of being negative. Really. I love Sherron, but it's a little scary to have such an important player be so boom-or-bust. If Sherron hasn't improved one bit since last season, we're a great team and a strong candidate to win a championship. If Sherron's grown up a bit, we're better than 07-08.

I'm optimistic. I really am. But I can't help my nature--the losses sting more than the wins thrill. Except that one win a couple years ago. That one still feels great. And I want it again. Given how important Sherron is to winning another title, I'll admit to being a little nervous about him in close-and-late situations. The good thing is that I'm easily impressed. I can't wait for the season to start.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973427 - 10/19/09 02:05 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: ross52066]
faithful1 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/18/07
Loc: Kansas
Playing the "Nobody respects our Team" (ala Calipari at Memphis) might work out well for us this year. It does, however, kill me to see media types anoint someone 'god' prior to proving it at the college level. Yeah, Wall is a speedy guard but there is more to basketball than pure physical attributes like stamina, bball knowledge, cunning, keeping your ego in check, injury etc. Rarely is one man the savior for a whole team. Even Cal said at his MMadness that they have a long way to go. He's trying to temper the predictions a bit, too.

In the meantime, Sherron is a proven winner and has made many a clutch play in big games. He already has a ring and will have a diploma. This is likely more than one and done Wall will have.

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#973428 - 10/19/09 02:07 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
RussianHawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 10/01/05
Loc: Washington D.C.
Quote:

Quote:

Wall might possibly put up better numbers, but I'm sure Sherron doesn't care who is scoring when April rolls around.




Maybe this is true. I believe that Sherron doesn't care who's scoring if we're up ten. But I get a feeling that in close-and-late situations, he might think our only play is to clear out with 12 seconds on the clock and let him go to work.




This is exactly the play you want with 12 seconds left….. Sherron was nothing, but amazing last season driving at the end of the half and either laying it in, or kicking out for a three.

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#973429 - 10/19/09 02:25 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: RussianHawk]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Wall might possibly put up better numbers, but I'm sure Sherron doesn't care who is scoring when April rolls around.




Maybe this is true. I believe that Sherron doesn't care who's scoring if we're up ten. But I get a feeling that in close-and-late situations, he might think our only play is to clear out with 12 seconds on the clock and let him go to work.




This is exactly the play you want with 12 seconds left….. Sherron was nothing, but amazing last season driving at the end of the half and either laying it in, or kicking out for a three.




Well, fine, but:

---

"It allowed the Orange an opportunity to tie, which Jonny Flynn did by hitting a three from the side over Aldrich with six seconds left.

That three, followed by a Sherron Collins 14-foot miss at :02, forced overtime, which the Orange won handily, 17-9."

---

KU’s 5-foot-11 junior go-to guy, who misfired on a tough, possible game-winning six-foot left-handed shot in the lane with six seconds left, definitely took this loss harder than the Jayhawks’ only other setback — an overtime decision to Syracuse on Nov. 25 in the same building.

“Real frustrating,” Collins said after missing 15 of 21 shots, including six of seven threes.

----

“It was just one of those days things were not working,” Collins said after collecting 25 points, eight assists and eight turnovers. “We took some bad shots the first half. We’ve got to do a better job with conference play coming up.”

----

KU’s other focal player, Sherron Collins, missed nine of 13 shots and had nine points on a night only Tyshawn Taylor (11 points) cracked double figures [. . . .] “We lacked concentration. We made sloppy passes,” said Collins, who missed two free throws with 1:48 left and KU up, 58-56, trying to hang on for dear life. “We didn’t play defense. No defense. There’s nothing else I can say. The turnovers would have had no effect if we played defense.”

---

Collins had a tough night, obviously, considering he missed 16 of 19 shots and nine of 10 threes.

“Going 3-for-19 he couldn’t throw it in the ocean. When you have your other players play so poorly we couldn’t even sub them ... we should not point to one player as far as poor play. I could point to a lot of different reasons we played poorly,” Self said.

----

Collins had a potential tie-breaking shot swatted by center Mamadou Diene (five blocks) with 1:51 left. Then, Collins shot an airball from three at :26, with KU down, 67-64.

“I had an open shot (three) to tie it up and missed it,” Collins said. “It got away from me the second I let it go. It slipped. I just lost it, didn’t make it.”

-----

Collins turns it over trying to throw a pass to Aldrich.

With the shot clock winding down, Lucas spins, gets Collins in the air, then swishes a short shot with a foul. Just a great individual effort there. He makes the free throw.

----------------------------

Look, the point is not that Sherron isn't a great player. He is. The point is that we lost one game last year that he was good in, and that was to the eventual national runner-up. And we lost it, in some part, because Sherron got wild.

Please don't misinterpret this post. It's not to attack Sherron. It's to point out how remarkably important he is. We lost just one game he was good in. And we all know we're better this year. If he can avoid the meltdown games, there's not one we should lose.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973430 - 10/19/09 02:46 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
phineasgage Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/29/08
Loc: 10th and Illinois
shouldn't the best guard in america have a jump shot? otherwise he's just a bigger more athletic dogus balbay

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#973431 - 10/19/09 02:54 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: phineasgage]
jkjhawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Lawrence, KS
I'd like to see our players start keeping their mouths shut and wait to prove it on the court.

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#973432 - 10/19/09 03:20 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: jkjhawk]
hasbeen Offline
Zipper Jiggler

Registered: 06/23/05
He was asked a question, and what court can he prove it on right now?
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"I [censored] your mother's dead corpse" - larryb, the victim.

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#973433 - 10/19/09 03:29 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: hasbeen]
jkjhawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Quote:

He was asked a question, and what court can he prove it on right now?




The article made it seem like Collins was calling Parrish up to break his balls. That's different than Parrish calling Collins up to break his balls. I could be wrong. Maybe I misread it.

EDIT: Okay I misread it. Nevermind my comment. I'm wrong.


Edited by jkjhawk (10/19/09 03:30 PM)

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#973434 - 10/19/09 03:31 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: jkjhawk]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

Quote:

He was asked a question, and what court can he prove it on right now?




The article made it seem like Collins was calling Parrish up to break his balls. That's different than Parrish calling Collins up to break his balls. I could be wrong. Maybe I misread it.

EDIT: Okay I misread it. Nevermind my comment. I'm wrong.




Parrish was at Late Night and our practice the next day.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973435 - 10/19/09 03:41 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
jkjhawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Okay I admit it... I've been more concerned with the mlb playoffs and our football team recently. Thanks for letting me be an ass. I'm rusty from a long offseason.

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#973436 - 10/19/09 03:44 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
IdiotWind Offline
IdiotWhine

Registered: 10/14/09
Quote:

We knew how our season would end last year, and it happened just as we expected.





Who is "we" and how did "we" know how our season would end last year? Are you insinuating Collins lost the game for us with "ill-advised shots" and "bullrush drives". I agree with most of your post - Collins is a loose cannon and nearly cost us the '08 NC, but "we" doesn't know anything the rest of us don't…..

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#973437 - 10/19/09 03:47 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: IdiotWind]
5DecadeHawk Offline
Otto Schnellbacher

Registered: 11/22/07
Quote:

Who is "we" and how did "we" know how our season would end last year? Are you insinuating Collins lost the game for us with "ill-advised shots" and "bullrush drives". I agree with most of your post - Collins is a loose cannon and nearly cost us the '08 NC, but "we" doesn't know anything the rest of us don't…..




^^^ 1st Post


Nearly cost us the game?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8CEP7bxNwM

I'd say he made the 2nd biggest play of the game. Many might argue it's the biggest.
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#973438 - 10/19/09 03:50 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: 5DecadeHawk]
larryb Offline
Gutter

Registered: 05/02/07
Loc: Work
Mario nearly cost us the game too.
_________________________
Rock Chalk my brothers and sisters!

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#973439 - 10/19/09 03:52 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: larryb]
Geezer Offline
To serve & protect

Registered: 01/08/06
Loc: JayhawkLaw office Lobby
The ill advised break with 20 seconds left in regulation is what is refered to as nearly losing the game, which is correct.
_________________________
"Nice hands, Jess." Bill Self, Oct. 17, 2012


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#973440 - 10/19/09 03:54 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Geezer]
EastCoastJHawk Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/13/07
Loc: On the sofa
Context.
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"I would not be at all shocked if Illinois is in the same league as KU in 2 years" - Gutter 3/11/09

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#973441 - 10/19/09 03:54 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Geezer]
IdiotWind Offline
IdiotWhine

Registered: 10/14/09
Quote:

The ill advised break with 20 seconds left in regulation is what is refered to as nearly losing the game, which is correct.




Thanks! Many have long forgotten that. 2ND POST!!!!

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#973442 - 10/19/09 03:58 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: IdiotWind]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

Quote:

We knew how our season would end last year, and it happened just as we expected.





Who is "we" and how did "we" know how our season would end last year? Are you insinuating Collins lost the game for us with "ill-advised shots" and "bullrush drives". I agree with most of your post - Collins is a loose cannon and nearly cost us the '08 NC, but "we" doesn't know anything the rest of us don't…..




I think that most people who followed Kansas basketball very, very closely last season saw the handwriting on the wall about how the season would end. There just wasn't enough around Sherron and Cole for them to keep it going forever. Given Sherron's propensity for forcing the action--especially late, and especially when challenged by another elite guard--it was obvious all year long that Sherron getting wild was going to be a little problematic.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973443 - 10/19/09 03:59 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Geezer]
5DecadeHawk Offline
Otto Schnellbacher

Registered: 11/22/07
Danny Manning missed 11 shots in the 1988 Championship game. The bum almost cost us the game.
_________________________
tmcats put KU76erfan on ignore. It's Timmy asking us to quote KU76erfan's posts frequently.

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#973444 - 10/19/09 04:01 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: IdiotWind]
Geezer Offline
To serve & protect

Registered: 01/08/06
Loc: JayhawkLaw office Lobby
The reason Sherron had so many poor games is very simple. He was the only option for generating offense during the first half of the season and even great players have off nights let alone college juniors asked to carry that big an offensive burdon.
This year we should have many more scoring options and on those nights when sharron can't throw it in the ocean he won't have to shoot as much.
_________________________
"Nice hands, Jess." Bill Self, Oct. 17, 2012


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#973445 - 10/19/09 04:20 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Geezer]
IdiotWind Offline
IdiotWhine

Registered: 10/14/09
Quote:

The reason Sherron had so many poor games is very simple. He was the only option for generating offense during the first half of the season and even great players have off nights let alone college juniors asked to carry that big an offensive burdon.
This year we should have many more scoring options and on those nights when sharron can't throw it in the ocean he won't have to shoot as much.




I didn't say Sherron had a lot of poor games. I was simply agreeing with most of what JFISH was saying - Sherron is a loose cannon. A loose cannon who is very capable of taking over a game, for better or worse.

5decade -- You're bat-[censored] crazy if you weren't cussing Sherron when he tried to drive through several defenders with 20 seconds left only to be rejected. The stars were aligned that night and luckily we came out on top - only a complete homer forgets stupid mistakes like that.

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#973446 - 10/19/09 04:31 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: IdiotWind]
SashasVodka Offline
JohnBrownWithARifle

Registered: 05/01/08
Loc: KC
I cussed sherron one way or another about 25 times in the last 7 minutes of the NC game.

Without him we wouldn't have won it.

And while he is a better player today, he is not a different player.
_________________________
Mclemore.

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#973447 - 10/19/09 04:34 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: SashasVodka]
HawkRawker Offline
Eunuch

Registered: 11/04/07
Loc: Jayhawk Nation
This team will play it's best when it's smashing opponents by 10-20 points. I agree Sherron came up short in key situations last year, then again he was 1/2 the reason we won the National Championship game.
_________________________
If I advise, we regress.

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#973448 - 10/19/09 04:44 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: HawkRawker]
Geezer Offline
To serve & protect

Registered: 01/08/06
Loc: JayhawkLaw office Lobby
Sherron won way more games than he lost last year. If he hadn't returned for one reason or another, what would our record have been?
He's a great college player and I'm damned glad he's ours.
I hope he has a great year this year and ends up in the conversation of the best guards in KU history.
_________________________
"Nice hands, Jess." Bill Self, Oct. 17, 2012


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#973449 - 10/19/09 04:58 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Geezer]
larryb Offline
Gutter

Registered: 05/02/07
Loc: Work
Sherron is not perfect and never will be. We are still damn fortunate to have him.
His mama is in town - it's all good in the hood in terms of 'ron.
Should be a great year for not just him but all of his teammates and the KU family.
_________________________
Rock Chalk my brothers and sisters!

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#973450 - 10/19/09 05:06 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: IdiotWind]
5DecadeHawk Offline
Otto Schnellbacher

Registered: 11/22/07
Quote:

5decade -- You're bat-[censored] crazy if you weren't cussing Sherron when he tried to drive through several defenders with 20 seconds left only to be rejected. The stars were aligned that night and luckily we came out on top - only a complete homer forgets stupid mistakes like that.




I remember the play. I simply do not over-react to a single mistake and act like the player has never done anything to make up for their mistakes.

EVERY PLAYER makes mistakes.

As I previously posted, Danny Manning missed 11 shots in the 1988 championship game.

Keith Smart missed 6 shots in the 1987 championship game.

Nobody plays perfect. The measure of a great player is their ability to OVERCOME MISTAKES AND WIN ANYWAY.
_________________________
tmcats put KU76erfan on ignore. It's Timmy asking us to quote KU76erfan's posts frequently.

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#973451 - 10/19/09 05:14 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: RussianHawk]
TAXMAN Offline
(~_o)

Registered: 10/13/09
Loc: Mesquite, TX
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Wall might possibly put up better numbers, but I'm sure Sherron doesn't care who is scoring when April rolls around.




Maybe this is true. I believe that Sherron doesn't care who's scoring if we're up ten. But I get a feeling that in close-and-late situations, he might think our only play is to clear out with 12 seconds on the clock and let him go to work.




This is exactly the play you want with 12 seconds left….. Sherron was nothing, but amazing last season driving at the end of the half and either laying it in, or kicking out for a three.




+1 We did score almost EVERYTIME before intermission last year. Did the media ever pick up on it? I think it might have made a neat little story.

And i'm with you, I want the ball in his hands with 12 seconds to go. He's our man, he really is the true key.

Fish made a good point also: If he's improved even a little (esp. turnovers,) then we're better than 07-08.

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#973452 - 10/19/09 05:23 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: IdiotWind]
TAXMAN Offline
(~_o)

Registered: 10/13/09
Loc: Mesquite, TX
Quote:

Quote:

We knew how our season would end last year, and it happened just as we expected.





Who is "we" and how did "we" know how our season would end last year? Are you insinuating Collins lost the game for us with "ill-advised shots" and "bullrush drives". I agree with most of your post - Collins is a loose cannon and nearly cost us the '08 NC, but "we" doesn't know anything the rest of us don't…..




I don't think JFish is bagging on Collins, or blaming Collins for anything. To summarize: I think Sherron makes him a little nervous when he takes the "ill-advised shots" and "bullrush drives." I think we all get a little nervous when he is barreling in the lane at 20mph!

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#973453 - 10/19/09 05:24 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: TAXMAN]
hawks82 Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 07/01/09
I honestly think John Wall is a scary good slasher, and a great passer to boot. But what happens if he cant drive? Thats what I wanna know, I just dont see how you can pick a kid with HYPE and no proven college experience if you watched the OU game last year and keep a straight face....

You wanna see how retardly biased this report is, the number 1 overall guard in 2009 isnt even on the list, and neither is willie warren....both arent even in the top 25.


Edited by hawks82 (10/19/09 05:26 PM)

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#973454 - 10/19/09 05:31 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: hawks82]
TAXMAN Offline
(~_o)

Registered: 10/13/09
Loc: Mesquite, TX
Quote:

I honestly think John Wall is a scary good slasher, and a great passer to boot. But what happens if he cant drive? Thats what I wanna know, I just dont see how you can pick a kid with HYPE and no proven college experience if you watched the OU game last year and keep a straight face....




I believe my jaw was resting on the floor when Sherron kept answering over and over.

Even though I made the comment that it is nerve rattling to see him move so fast...and to anticipate turnovers because of this...I'm glad we have the most aggressive guard in college basketball. There is absolutely no fear in the fireplug that is Sherron Collins.

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#973455 - 10/19/09 06:21 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: TAXMAN]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
There might not be any fear, but the repeated post-game "we lost our composure" and "we have to make better decision" lines got old. Here's hoping Sherron's learned to channel what makes him dangerous to the other team and mitigate what makes him dangerous to his own.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973456 - 10/19/09 06:30 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Quote:

There might not be any fear, but the repeated post-game "we lost our composure" and "we have to make better decision" lines got old. Here's hoping Sherron's learned to channel what makes him dangerous to the other team and mitigate what makes him dangerous to his own.




whoa yeah those lines got pretty old after 8 games of a 35 game season....especially on a team with only one player with significant experience..him. Say what you will fish...at least Sherron will man up and put the team on his back. Not like some of the guys would do in the previous season. Fortunate enough for us they didnt have to and it turned out great. Collins did what he had to last year.


Edited by PHOGUSHER (10/19/09 06:52 PM)
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#973457 - 10/19/09 07:09 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: PHOGUSHER]
SashasVodka Offline
JohnBrownWithARifle

Registered: 05/01/08
Loc: KC
I think the way Sherron has modulated his game over the past three years (from accepting a contributing role to dominating the ball) may be a welcome omen for those who expect sherron to be a facilitator more than a scorer. For those who continue to think that it's in his nature to be overzealous to a fault may be surprised by what he brings to the table this year.
_________________________
Mclemore.

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#973458 - 10/19/09 07:27 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: HawkRawker]
NDballer13 Offline
kusports.net

Registered: 12/02/07
Loc: North Dakota
Quote:

This team will play it's best when it's smashing opponents by 10-20 points.




Brilliant analysis. That's John Madden-esque. "4th and 3, if they don't get a first down on this play, they turn it over to the other eam's offense."
_________________________
go fvck yourself, we got a guy. Puggy 1/26/11

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#973459 - 10/19/09 07:50 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: NDballer13]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Quote:

Quote:

This team will play it's best when it's smashing opponents by 10-20 points.




Brilliant analysis. That's John Madden-esque. "4th and 3, if they don't get a first down on this play, they turn it over to the other eam's offense."




lol...hey nd...how did you like them showing the Bison on ESPNs Midnight Madness last friday.....they have arrived!!!!
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#973460 - 10/19/09 08:01 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: NDballer13]
AdonisJordan Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 02/10/07
Loc: Lawrence
Quote:

Quote:

This team will play it's best when it's smashing opponents by 10-20 points.




Brilliant analysis. That's John Madden-esque. "4th and 3, if they don't get a first down on this play, they turn it over to the other eam's offense."




"You need to see, because if you can't see, you don't know where you're going..."
_________________________
There is not a better venue in all of sports. -Jay Bilas

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#973461 - 10/19/09 09:20 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: AdonisJordan]
jkjhawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Lawrence, KS
We had to have Collins carrying the team last year. Bill figured it out long before the season ever started. I think that's something he doesn't get much credit for... the drastic change in strategy from '08 to '09. You know it was pretty obvious we needed to ride Collins and Aldrich, but some coaches never adjust their strategy to fit their personnel. Self should get more credit for being not being dumb. That's a big part of being smart. He doesn't waver from the right thing to do even if it's not popular (Moody, Hawkins, Morningstar, etc.)

What I hope to see from Collins, because it's the right thing for Collins to do, is to know how to use his teammates to win the game at the expense of his own line. When I hear him talking about this John Wall challenge, I hope what he's getting at is he's smart enough to talk trash but then let the young guy get caught up in the hotdog game and make the ballhog-type mistakes. Collins has guys to rely on this year.

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#973462 - 10/19/09 09:24 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: jkjhawk]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Sorry, when you're making $3MM or whatever, you do not get credit for not being dumb. What else was Self supposed to do last year?
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973463 - 10/19/09 09:50 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
joeku Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 10/17/09
Loc: Kansas City
Quote:

If Sherron learned what he needed to learn from that, he might be the best player in college basketball.

Given how important Sherron is to winning another title, I'll admit to being a little nervous about him in close-and-late situations
Quote:



Really. I love Sherron, but it's a little scary to have such an important player be so boom-or-bust. If Sherron hasn't improved one bit since last season, we're a great team and a strong candidate to win a championship. If Sherron's grown up a bit, we're better than 07-08.

I'm optimistic. I really am.




No, you come off as arrogant. You are basically implying that there is something you positively know Sherron needs to do to become the best player in college basketball and make this team better than the 07-08 team that he himself just might not understand. If this is the case than you are clearly insulting the man's intelligence. Or maybe you are suggesting the man understands what improvements he must make, but just might be too selfish to do what it takes. Either way, this is not optimism.

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#973464 - 10/19/09 10:00 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: joeku]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Well...what do any of us actually know about Sherron's intelligence? He could be a Rhodes Scholar or dumb as a brick...all I care about, from a basketball perspective, is can he put us in a position to win a championship.

I believe he can, and will. But because of his extraordinarily strong boom/bust tendency, I'm just a little nervous. Come April, we might not be able to ride out a bad game from our best or second-best player. This isn't 07-08, when we had a bunch of B+/A- players who could fill in for each other. We have two A+ level players and a bunch of unknowns after that.

If you're not just a tick nervous when Sherron's handling the ball in crunch time, I'd like to know what you were watching last year.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973465 - 10/19/09 10:15 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
jkjhawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Quote:

Sorry, when you're making $3MM or whatever, you do not get credit for not being dumb. What else was Self supposed to do last year?




He gets credit from me. Exactly what is wrong with saying the guy did a good job? You don't think he appreciates positive reinforcement?

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#973466 - 10/19/09 10:17 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
joeku Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 10/17/09
Loc: Kansas City
HE ALREADY HAS put us in a position to win a national championship. This is why i'm not as nervous when Sherron is handling the ball in crunch time.


Edited by joeku (10/19/09 10:18 PM)

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#973467 - 10/20/09 10:31 AM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JHAWKinKY]
medington Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 10/20/09
Someone had to bring the ball past half court for Chalmers because he could not do it. That is why Self put Collins in as a freshmen. Any time we had trouble getting the ball down court he put Collins in the game. Without Collins we would have lost a bunch of games last year. In the last game with Michigan we played the game with two people Sherron and Cole, No one else showed up and lacked confidence toward the last to step up and shoot the ball. Without Collins this year we would not win the big 12 let alone play in March.

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#973468 - 10/20/09 11:57 AM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
Zhawk06 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/06/05
Loc: Washington D.C.
Quote:

Talking about Wall's high school record is pretty useless, isn't it? And isn't the point that Sherron shouldn't care how much he scores this year?





I never understand why is it useless to discuss Wall's (or any other consensus #1 rated high school player -- like Bryce Brown in football) high school record? You, supposedly, have best high school player in the country on your team and the best you can do is 17-11? Wall is, supposedly, going to come in and be a Kevin Durant/Mike Beasley type, compete for NPOY and 1st Team AA honors. He's a supposed Lebron James-PG type (with regard to his skill set and athletic ability for his position relative to his age). How many 11 loss season did Lebron James have in high school?

I just don't understand how it always seems to be considered such an irrelevant subject. How is it not an enigma to anybody else that such a magnificent talent can allow his team to lose 11 out of 28 games?
_________________________
F.O.E.

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#973469 - 10/20/09 12:01 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Zhawk06]
larryb Offline
Gutter

Registered: 05/02/07
Loc: Work
Come on 06! You are smarter than that.
_________________________
Rock Chalk my brothers and sisters!

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#973470 - 10/20/09 12:08 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
Zhawk06 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/06/05
Loc: Washington D.C.
Quote:

Well...what do any of us actually know about Sherron's intelligence? He could be a Rhodes Scholar or dumb as a brick...all I care about, from a basketball perspective, is can he put us in a position to win a championship.

I believe he can, and will. But because of his extraordinarily strong boom/bust tendency, I'm just a little nervous. Come April, we might not be able to ride out a bad game from our best or second-best player. This isn't 07-08, when we had a bunch of B+/A- players who could fill in for each other. We have two A+ level players and a bunch of unknowns after that.

If you're not just a tick nervous when Sherron's handling the ball in crunch time, I'd like to know what you were watching last year.




I was watching a guy that had to overcompensate and was FORCED to take control of situations while his teammates stood there with "deer in headlights" type expressions on their face. If you think that his supporting cast this year, given HCBS track record developing talent, will be anything less than at least a B/B+ your opinion is sadly uniformed. Some of what I remember of Sherron in crunch time with similar grade talent involves a stolen inbound pass, a 3 pointer, a pass for a game tying 3, 2 free throws, and a few seconds of dribble-out-the-clock as streamers fell to the floor.

You're absolutely right, last year Sherron could be erratic during crunch time. But when he's your first and only option of course the results will be a mixed bag.
_________________________
F.O.E.

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#973471 - 10/20/09 12:12 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Zhawk06]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Without a doubt, that steal, flip, recovery, and three was more difficult than Mario's shot.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973472 - 10/20/09 12:12 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: larryb]
Zhawk06 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/06/05
Loc: Washington D.C.
Quote:

Come on 06! You are smarter than that.




Haha, you're not answering my question.


"Hello! You play to win the game!". I don't understand why discussion of top-flight talent's high school record isn't up for discussion. Was he playing with a disabled squad? Was it coaching? Officiating? Was John Wall playing with one arm tied behind his back to make it fair? Did he only care about scoring 50 points? Is he a poor leader? Did he fail in crunch time? Was he not allowed to dribble? Why did John Wall's team lose 11 games?

I seriously don't understand how these aren't valid questions for debate or are too "taboo" to inform our assessment of a player.
_________________________
F.O.E.

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#973473 - 10/20/09 12:14 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
Zhawk06 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/06/05
Loc: Washington D.C.
Quote:

Without a doubt, that steal, flip, recovery, and three was more difficult than Mario's shot.




Agreed. I'll see if I can dig up the YouTube video of that play without any sound. When Sherron shoots the 3 you can hear him yell "BOOOOM" before it hits the net because he knows it's going in.
_________________________
F.O.E.

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#973474 - 10/20/09 12:22 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Zhawk06]
Geezer Offline
To serve & protect

Registered: 01/08/06
Loc: JayhawkLaw office Lobby
A visit to Wall's "High School" website may clear up some things.
http://summerfieldministries.net/demo8/
_________________________
"Nice hands, Jess." Bill Self, Oct. 17, 2012


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#973475 - 10/20/09 12:24 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Geezer]
HunterThompson Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 10/23/06
Loc: Woody Creek, CO
Das sum funny sh!t righ thar.
_________________________
"This will make us the envy of the Big 12." --Rand Berney (somebody from statie)

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#973476 - 10/20/09 12:43 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Zhawk06]
larryb Offline
Gutter

Registered: 05/02/07
Loc: Work
Quote:

Quote:

Come on 06! You are smarter than that.




Haha, you're not answering my question.


"Hello! You play to win the game!". I don't understand why discussion of top-flight talent's high school record isn't up for discussion. Was he playing with a disabled squad? Was it coaching? Officiating? Was John Wall playing with one arm tied behind his back to make it fair? Did he only care about scoring 50 points? Is he a poor leader? Did he fail in crunch time? Was he not allowed to dribble? Why did John Wall's team lose 11 games?

I seriously don't understand how these aren't valid questions for debate or are too "taboo" to inform our assessment of a player.




I don't pretend to be a John Wall expert but I will do my best to answer your question/s. From what I have read - Wall had little talent around him. From what I have read - Wall's team had one of the toughest if not the toughest schedules in the state. From what I have read - HE was playing against better teams and was often double teamed. I have no idea about his coach but my guess is he was not one of the better coaches in the state. My guess is he never played with one arm tied around his back. If he cared about scoring 50 a game he wouldn't have averaged 9 assists a game and would have taken more shots. I have never heard him refered to as a scorer. I have no idea about his leadership skills in High School but I read that at the Jordan Brand Classic and the Nike Hoop Summit he was a leader and played the role well. Did he fail in crunch time? I could be wrong but I believe his inferior High School team (or HE) beat beat teams with better records and played for the State Championship. They lost on a 40 foot shot at the buzzer. I figure he was allowed to dribble. Why did his team lose 11 games? Because the other TEAM played better than his TEAM did. HE was still good enough to get his team to the State Championship.
_________________________
Rock Chalk my brothers and sisters!

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#973477 - 10/20/09 12:47 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: larryb]
Zhawk06 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/06/05
Loc: Washington D.C.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Come on 06! You are smarter than that.




Haha, you're not answering my question.


"Hello! You play to win the game!". I don't understand why discussion of top-flight talent's high school record isn't up for discussion. Was he playing with a disabled squad? Was it coaching? Officiating? Was John Wall playing with one arm tied behind his back to make it fair? Did he only care about scoring 50 points? Is he a poor leader? Did he fail in crunch time? Was he not allowed to dribble? Why did John Wall's team lose 11 games?

I seriously don't understand how these aren't valid questions for debate or are too "taboo" to inform our assessment of a player.




I don't pretend to be a John Wall expert but I will do my best to answer your question/s. From what I have read - Wall had little talent around him. From what I have read - Wall's team had one of the toughest if not the toughest schedules in the state. From what I have read - HE was playing against better teams and was often double teamed. I have no idea about his coach but my guess is he was not one of the better coaches in the state. My guess is he never played with one arm tied around his back. If he cared about scoring 50 a game he wouldn't have averaged 9 assists a game and would have taken more shots. I have never heard him refered to as a scorer. I have no idea about his leadership skills in High School but I read that at the Jordan Brand Classic and the Nike Hoop Summit he was a leader and played the role well. Did he fail in crunch time? I could be wrong but I believe his inferior High School team (or HE) beat beat teams with better records and played for the State Championship. They lost on a 40 foot shot at the buzzer. I figure he was allowed to dribble. Why did his team lose 11 games? Because the other TEAM played better than his TEAM did. HE was still good enough to get his team to the State Championship.




Great! And in answering all that you've made a point I had hoped to make myself. That, no matter how great John Wall is, it is going to be up his young, fellow teammates to live up to expectations in order for Kentucky to be good. Best case scenario: Oden, Greg. Likely scenario: Durant, Kevin and Beasley, Michael.
_________________________
F.O.E.

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#973478 - 10/20/09 12:51 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Zhawk06]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
You left someone out...
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973479 - 10/20/09 01:06 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
Hawklin Offline
Justin Ray Giddens

Registered: 03/27/05
Wall in a D1 halfcourt may not even get him on this list.
_________________________
I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk.

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#973480 - 10/20/09 07:03 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Hawklin]
phsx_hawk Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 11/12/07
Loc: texas
sherron wants wall and not one single pic?

_________________________
“Bill Self has a juggernaut that is on fire" JAYHAWK THIS WORK SATDAY TO BE A NEVA BLACKMILD TO

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#973481 - 10/20/09 07:27 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
NDballer13 Offline
kusports.net

Registered: 12/02/07
Loc: North Dakota
Quote:

You left someone out...




So did the record books.

If wer're thinking the same guy.
_________________________
go fvck yourself, we got a guy. Puggy 1/26/11

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#973482 - 10/20/09 07:32 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: NDballer13]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

Quote:

You left someone out...




So did the record books.

If wer're thinking the same guy.




No, I'm thinking of a guy who's still in the books (at our expense).
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973483 - 10/20/09 08:44 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: phsx_hawk]
Hawklin Offline
Justin Ray Giddens

Registered: 03/27/05
Quote:

sherron wants wall and not one single pic?








Apparently my antics on JFishs memory lane thread broke my photobucket account.
_________________________
I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk.

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#973484 - 10/20/09 09:14 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
NDballer13 Offline
kusports.net

Registered: 12/02/07
Loc: North Dakota
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You left someone out...




So did the record books.

If wer're thinking the same guy.




No, I'm thinking of a guy who's still in the books (at our expense).




Gotcha. Orange jersey?
_________________________
go fvck yourself, we got a guy. Puggy 1/26/11

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#973485 - 10/20/09 09:16 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: NDballer13]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Yup.

And Hawklin....seriously?
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973486 - 10/20/09 09:24 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
Hawklin Offline
Justin Ray Giddens

Registered: 03/27/05
Yep.

I got an email stating I cannot post anymore pictures without paying premium. I dont know how to get it back. Monthly or what the limits are.

And i had a few visual points that needed to be made on some threads this week.
_________________________
I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk.

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#973487 - 10/20/09 10:04 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Hawklin]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

Yep.

I got an email stating I cannot post anymore pictures without paying premium. I dont know how to get it back. Monthly or what the limits are.

And i had a few visual points that needed to be made on some threads this week.




Haha--how much are they asking?
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#973488 - 10/20/09 10:27 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: JFish26]
Hawklin Offline
Justin Ray Giddens

Registered: 03/27/05
Upgrade to Pro for only $24.95 a year! Starting at $2.08 a month!
_________________________
I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk.

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#973489 - 10/20/09 10:32 PM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Hawklin]
Hawklin Offline
Justin Ray Giddens

Registered: 03/27/05
Or I can take an offer from one of their partners and get upgrade for free. Might work out with FTD since I have an anniversary this week....
_________________________
I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk.

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#973490 - 10/22/09 06:44 AM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: Hawklin]
JHAWKinKY Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 11/01/07
Loc: Back Where I Belong
They are having fun over on Catspause on this one. Even sending this picture to KU Athletic Office. Uh oh, I see a Brady Morningstar-like suspensions for this one.
_________________________
Guess who's back?

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#973491 - 10/22/09 06:51 AM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: jkjhawk]
KUHawkhead Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Mc to the Pherson
Wall probably is the best.


Just like Eric Chenowith would "rewrite" the record books at KU for big men.

Don't rank anything/one until they've actually PLAYED a D1 game.

Douchebag.

RCJHKU!
_________________________
It's MISSOURI. We don't lose to them at home-Bill Self-2/25/2012

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#973492 - 10/22/09 09:39 AM Re: Bring em on says Sherron [Re: KUHawkhead]
Hawklin Offline
Justin Ray Giddens

Registered: 03/27/05
Technically Chenowith did rewrite a few records. And landed himself in the books in many categories.
_________________________
I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk.

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