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#905051 - 07/19/09 08:23 AM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: sevenyearhawk]
Hawklin Offline
Justin Ray Giddens

Registered: 03/27/05
Quote:

If I were a Royals fan, I'd be mad as Hell ...






As a Royals fan I would like to voice my extreme pleasure that you are not one of us. Hope you enjoyed plenty of the new concessions.
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I'd sooner, except the penalties, kill a man than a hawk.

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#905052 - 07/19/09 01:34 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: sevenyearhawk]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Quote:

If I were a Royals fan, I'd be mad as Hell ...

Poor fundamentals, especially in the Friday night loss, Gordon was pretty much responsible for those two early runs.

I was at a company picnic on Saturday and only got scoring updates, but I heard there was another knucklehead play ... and of course, Cruz was brought back out and promptly screwed the pooch - again!

It all starts at the top, with a winning attitude and a positive locker room/club house culture.

Hell, take Lew Perkins for example ... with "swagger"

As long as David Glass is the owner, there's absolutely no hope for the Royals ...
zip, zero, nada.




You have every right to be proud of what your team has become, but save your criticism of the Royals franchise.
The Rays were anything but a blue print of how to build a franchise. They have had one winning season, soon to be two baring disaster. They have managed to lose at least 90 games in 10 of their 11 years of existence, three of those years they lost 100 or more.
Yes the Royals stink, and hopefully it gets turned around, but string together a decade of winning baseball, win a world series before you start bagging on the Royals or any other franchise.


Edited by jammahawk (07/19/09 01:36 PM)
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#905053 - 07/19/09 02:04 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: jammahawk]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
In all fairness, the Rays are pretty damn close to being the model organization now. The Royals can't hope to get in the ballpark without at least meeting modern objective analysis somewhere in the middle.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#905054 - 07/19/09 03:10 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: JFish26]
TheBashman Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 03/02/06
Its all in the draft fellas....

The #1 reason i firmly believe is the difference between the 2 organizations, the draft

Alex Gordon is older than Evan Longoria, and maybe half as good

for a #1 overall pick....David Price or Luke Hochevar?

or how about other first rounders....guys like B.J. Upton, Delmon Young (who was very good trade bait), and Jeff Niemann

The Royals have been THE worst drafting MLB team in decades...its pathetic

From Jeff Austin, Colt Griffin, Mike Stodolka,Chris Lubanski, and so on.....this team just cant draft players

teams like the Rays, Twins, A's, and Marlins have had tons of success drafting guys who, will no doubt leave elsewhere for $$ eventually, but they get the job done for those teams

the royals simply cant draft

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#905055 - 07/19/09 03:19 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: TheBashman]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Sorry, not buying it. At the time, Gordon was the right pick. Tampa drafted Wade Townsend that year. The Royals took Hochevar the next year, who is far from a finished product, but looking better these days. The Royals rightfully passed on Longoria because of Gordon. The year after that, the Rays picked Price before the Royals selected Moustakas. What can you do there? And the Rays picked Tim Beckham in the 2008 draft before the Royals took Hosmer.

So no, I'm not buying the first round of the draft as where the organization has failed compared to the Rays. Try something else.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#905056 - 07/19/09 03:32 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: JFish26]
TheBashman Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 03/02/06
are you kidding me?

look at all the players to be much more successful from that 2005 draft even a few spots after Gordon....

Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Braun, Ricky Romero, Troy Tulowitzki, Mike Pelfrey, and Cameron Maybin were just in the top 10....all of those players have been more successful than Gordon to this point

But I will even give you that most were not rated as high as gordon coming out.....but Zimmerman and Braun were on that same level, and Baird went with signability

Hochevar is an absolute disgrace to this organization, now highly regarded as the worse #1 pick of all time, we passed on every single player, guys that included.......

Evan Longoria ( just look at him)
Tim Lincecum (easily the #1 rated starting pitcher of the class)
Max Scherzer (who everyone figured the royals would take)
and Andrew Miller (of course most rated him higher than Hoch)

The Gordon draft looks worse now than it did then.....but Hochevar was a mistake from day one, and its really hard arguing it considering most teams did not even have him rated the best pitcher that year

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#905057 - 07/19/09 03:37 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: TheBashman]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Blah blah blah...just more meaningless outcome-based evaluation.

Look, we can spin our wheels on the draft, or major league free agency, or trades, or payroll, or player development all we want. The bottom line is the organization is generations behind in player analysis. This shortcoming infects all aspects of running the team. Nothing's going to get better until our processes are at least adequate...and when you're playing with a short stack, your processes need to be damn-near elite.
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#905058 - 07/19/09 03:41 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: TheBashman]
TheBashman Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 03/02/06
As far as Hochevar now.....he has a 5.34 ERA and even his last start...he went 6 innings pitched and gave up 9 hits and 5 runs

Luke Hochevar will never be near worth a #1 pick that the royals gave for him

and i threw out David Price because he was a #1 pick who was worth the selection.....just looking at all the #1 picks from recent times...besides Matt Bush and Bryan Bullington (both also controversial)....all have been worth the selection

we had the #1 overall pick in the draft and blew it....you cant deny it

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#905059 - 07/19/09 03:44 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: JFish26]
TheBashman Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 03/02/06
Quote:

The bottom line is the organization is generations behind in player analysis




player analysis in the draft is included....because I wasn't even talking mostly outcome based....the royals take guys in the draft that most other teams have that player rated much lower

You can win with low payroll....and the teams who do it, draft well

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#905060 - 07/19/09 03:47 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: TheBashman]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Well, again, Gordon was a great pick. He was Longoria. Sometimes these things don't work out.

I'm not gonna get worked up at this point. Nothing's gonna change for a long, long time. You win with a low payroll by spending your money more efficiently than everyone else. That's not going to happen under the current regime.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#905061 - 07/19/09 05:29 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: JFish26]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Quote:

In all fairness, the Rays are pretty damn close to being the model organization now. The Royals can't hope to get in the ballpark without at least meeting modern objective analysis somewhere in the middle.




Yes. "now" is the key word. I wish they were where the Rays are, "now".
The Rays had one of the more miserable beginnings of all time, made about every bad move one could make.
No smack talk until they do it for a sustained time.
_________________________
" Stay thirsty my friends ".

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#905062 - 07/19/09 06:37 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: jammahawk]
theno1kufan Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/09/09
Loc: Lawrence, KS
sweet avatar...

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#905063 - 07/19/09 08:05 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: theno1kufan]
sevenyearhawk Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 08/28/07
Royals founded in 1969, reached first World Series in 1980 ... 11 years

Rays founded in 1998, reached first World Series in 2008 ... 10 years

There were four more teams, and a radically different media and economic climate in the Majors for Tampa Bay.

Vince Naimoli made David Glass look like Oliver Warbucks!

The Royals had things the Rays never did: Johnny Damon, Jermaine Dye and Carlos Beltran.

Instead they had Greg Vaughn, Vinny Castilla, Fred McGriff and Jose Canseco.

The Rays had and have to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox and occasionally the Orioles in terms of payroll.

Both metropolitan areas are remarkably similar ... and in terms of "competition for fan support" the Bucs are nearly analogous to the Chiefs, and the Lightning to the Wizards.

Yes, the Rays have had an abysmal record for most of their existence ... and the Royals have a lot less fcuking excuses by playing in the weaker AL Central and having a much more established farm system, by virtue of their forty years of existence.

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#905064 - 07/19/09 09:36 PM Re: Guess who's in town ... [Re: sevenyearhawk]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Quote:

Royals founded in 1969, reached first World Series in 1980 ... 11 years

Rays founded in 1998, reached first World Series in 2008 ... 10 years

There were four more teams, and a radically different media and economic climate in the Majors for Tampa Bay.

Vince Naimoli made David Glass look like Oliver Warbucks!

The Royals had things the Rays never did: Johnny Damon, Jermaine Dye and Carlos Beltran.

Instead they had Greg Vaughn, Vinny Castilla, Fred McGriff and Jose Canseco.

The Rays had and have to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox and occasionally the Orioles in terms of payroll.

Both metropolitan areas are remarkably similar ... and in terms of "competition for fan support" the Bucs are nearly analogous to the Chiefs, and the Lightning to the Wizards.

Yes, the Rays have had an abysmal record for most of their existence ... and the Royals have a lot less fcuking excuses by playing in the weaker AL Central and having a much more established farm system, by virtue of their forty years of existence.




Just don't need to hear from a franchise that has put up one winning season to tell me I should be mad. Hell yes we're pissed, didn't need for you to point out the obvious.
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