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#647188 - 07/02/09 02:04 PM Re: Fire Dayton ***** [Re: jnewell]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

To be totally fair, JFish, you did say June 1 with your prediction.

Jacobs didn't play on June 1, but on May 31 he was:

.248/.330/.478

That's not a ton better than your prediction of .220/.280/.450, but obviously his recent numbers have tumbled since his horrible June.




Noted. You'll have to take it on my word, though...I wasn't waiting until now to pounce on this thread...I'd forgotten all about it until yesterday.

In any case, the point isn't that I was right about him not being good at baseball. The point is that Dayton's a miserable constructor of major league rosters and shouldn't be given another offseason.
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#647189 - 07/02/09 02:21 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: JFish26]
EastCoastJHawk Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/13/07
Loc: On the sofa
Quote:


In any case, the point isn't that I was right about him not being good at baseball. The point is that Dayton's a miserable constructor of major league rosters and shouldn't be given another offseason.




As the person who Fish was discussing that aspect with:

Doesn't matter if it was June 1 or July 1 or August 1 with those numbers, it was a failure.

As someone who was willing to let it play out and argued with Fish as so - (though I still stand by what I said last offseason to let it play out) - It did, and overall - the majority of his moves have led to failures.

Time for him to go. I agree with the statement I quoted from Fishey.


Edited by EastCoastJHawk (07/02/09 02:22 PM)
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#647190 - 07/02/09 02:56 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: EastCoastJHawk]
jnewell Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 08/07/08
Loc: Lawrence, KS
I didn't think Fish was just waiting to produce these numbers until after Jacobs struggled. I was just pointing out that, on June 1, Jacobs seemed much more valuable than he does right now.

I've already asked for my crow. I admitted that he was right on with his original posts and I was not. I figured Jacobs would at least be as good power-wise as he was last year, and he hasn't been. JFish deserves credit for seeing this before it actually happened.

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#647191 - 07/02/09 03:02 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jnewell]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Also, anyone who isn't caught up on Joe and Rany's takes on the way the Royals handle injuries really ought to. It's a pretty scathing indictment of the organization.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#647192 - 07/03/09 05:09 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: JFish26]
abc123 Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 09/26/07
On another note, can we end the Shealy talks? That seemed to be pretty popular in the offseason. He's been on the DL since May 8th and will turn 30 in August. His ship has sailed.

Ka'aihue's only batting .265 but that .402 OPB means even if he starts 2-23 as you said JFish, that'll take at least 30-35 PA's. Like you said, you can't teach walks. The guy will always have a good eye.

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#647193 - 07/03/09 05:15 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: abc123]
abc123 Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 09/26/07
JFish, speaking of injuries, is there any chance Jacobs is playing hurt? We heard all about how Crisp and Aviles "toughed" it out without telling anyone. I could also see Jacobs doing that.

His first two months, he had 9 HR's and 25 RBI's w/ .248/ .330/.478.

In June, 1 HR, 2 RBI's w/ .189/.268/.284. Something has to be wrong. That's an incredible drop off after 2 seemingly decent HR total months.

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#647194 - 07/03/09 08:28 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: abc123]
Hawk1990 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 09/03/06
Loc: Shawnee, KS
Quote:

On another note, can we end the Shealy talks? That seemed to be pretty popular in the offseason. He's been on the DL since May 8th and will turn 30 in August. His ship has sailed.




It's fair now in hindsight because he got hurt again, but I maintain that the presence of Shealy made the Jacobs trade bad even before Ka'aihue's presence is taken into account. Unless Shealy had a known injury that was obviously going to ruin his upcoming season, there was no reason to believe he couldn't put up up better numbers than Jacobs if given the full-time first base job.

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#647195 - 07/03/09 11:28 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: abc123]
theno1kufan Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/09/09
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Quote:

JFish, speaking of injuries, is there any chance Jacobs is playing hurt? We heard all about how Crisp and Aviles "toughed" it out without telling anyone. I could also see Jacobs doing that.

His first two months, he had 9 HR's and 25 RBI's w/ .248/ .330/.478.

In June, 1 HR, 2 RBI's w/ .189/.268/.284. Something has to be wrong. That's an incredible drop off after 2 seemingly decent HR total months.




yeah, he sucks just like the rest of the team(greinke and soria aside)

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#647196 - 07/04/09 12:55 AM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: theno1kufan]
jayhwk01 Offline
Timmy's Nemesis

Registered: 01/22/05
Loc: Mt. Oread's Shadow
He does not suck....for what he is. The fact is the guy should not be batting against left handed pitching and frankly is not an everyday player because of it. The Royals tried to make him into something he is not and that is not Jacobs fault.

Now as far as injury goes....could be. He is at this point playing below his baseline.
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#647197 - 07/05/09 12:59 AM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jayhwk01]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
01, you're in the group of folks around here I don't snap at because you're consistently well-reasoned, but you're wrong on Jacobs. He's bad at baseball, which is troubling when you're paid to be good at it. He's a lost cause and should be jettisoned at the first opportunity.

As to the injury question...I'd buy it if his early numbers were consistent with his career numbers and forward-looking projections. They were not. The hitter you see now IS Mike Jacobs.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#647198 - 07/05/09 11:39 AM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: JFish26]
jayhwk01 Offline
Timmy's Nemesis

Registered: 01/22/05
Loc: Mt. Oread's Shadow
I would agree on getting rid of him at the first opportunity. Time to bring up some of these guys in the minors and see what they can do. I still think he has some value as a reserve.....just not with the Royals and his salary level.
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#647199 - 07/05/09 08:23 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: JFish26]
jamboslice Offline
John Brown

Registered: 07/05/09
Loc: Overland Park, KS
Quote:

Quote:

Yeah I don't really understand the move with the plethora or 1B/DH's that the Royals have...





...especially given that Jacobs is worse than three of them (Butler, Shealy, Ka'aihue). Jacobs is 28 years old, shows skills which do not stand to improve over time, and won't come close to 32 home runs at Kauffman. This is a disastrous move on a number of fronts, some of which I've already addressed.

1. He does not present an upgrade over the available options.
2. He represents that the Royals are giving up on at least one (and seemingly two) of the best hitting prospects in the organization (Butler and Ka'aihue).
3. The trade shows a clear mismanagement of assets. Nunez was a valuable chip. While trading him is not necessarily a mistake, using him to obtain Mike Jacobs is awful (for the aforementioned reasons).

While calling for Dayton's firing is clearly rash, it is not a reaction to this move alone. This move merely represents a consistent failure on Moore's part to allocate assets responsibly and efficiently.




Even though Jacobs is terrible right now he could still potentially get 25 home runs. His old stadium was a big ball park too. I could give a crap about this guy right now, all I care about is the Crow signing.
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#647200 - 07/05/09 08:30 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: abc123]
jamboslice Offline
John Brown

Registered: 07/05/09
Loc: Overland Park, KS
Quote:

JFish, speaking of injuries, is there any chance Jacobs is playing hurt? We heard all about how Crisp and Aviles "toughed" it out without telling anyone. I could also see Jacobs doing that.




Ha except for the fact Aviles isn't even hurt, they just put him on the fake DL specifically for players that are horrible and can't make contact on the ball below his shoulder area.
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#647201 - 07/05/09 08:42 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jamboslice]
jnewell Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 08/07/08
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Quote:



Ha except for the fact Aviles isn't even hurt, they just put him on the fake DL specifically for players that are horrible and can't make contact on the ball below his shoulder area.




Uh.......

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/1301887.html

I don't think you give someone reconstructive elbow surgery just to carry on a "fake" injury.

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#647202 - 07/06/09 01:03 AM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jamboslice]
abc123 Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 09/26/07
Quote:



Ha except for the fact Aviles isn't even hurt, they just put him on the fake DL specifically for players that are horrible and can't make contact on the ball below his shoulder area.




Sry, i have to add on to this. So the Royals are making Aviles sit out the rest of the year on a "fake" injury?

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