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#647173 - 11/01/08 10:55 PM Re: Fire Dayton ***** [Re: JFish26]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Just a couple of quick questions, how can you say the Royals have three better options at first already on the roster? Shealy, no way, isn't he older than Jacobs? Butler? Way to big of a gamble to start him at first. He makes Mike Sweeney look like a gold glover at this point. Kila Ka'alhue? I would rather see him start the year out in AAA, if he repeats his AA performance, bring him up.
Yes, I know the difference between OBP and BA, just got my stats mixed up. Bad on my part.
Although I don't agree with you that at age 28 he is past his prime, IMO he is in his prime producing years now, that said, I am concerned that in terms of OBP his numbers have declined each year he has played.
Time will tell on this move, I'll let it play out.
_________________________
" Stay thirsty my friends ".

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#647174 - 11/02/08 09:57 AM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jammahawk]
Hawk1990 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 09/03/06
Loc: Shawnee, KS
I think anyone who is writing off Shealy as a more valid option than Jacobs is missing the boat. Yes, he's older (by 10 whole months), and yes, he hasn't posted a full big league season like Jacobs yet. True.

Now look at the reasons why. First, Shealy played college ball while Jacobs didn't, so he entered pro ball three years after Jacobs did, yet still managed to make the big leagues the same year Jacobs was first called up. Why did Shealy catch up to Jacobs? Because he destroyed minor league pitching. His rookie ball OPS was 1.194 (Jacobs' was .869). He jumped straight to High A ball and posted an OPS of .895 (Jacobs' was .669 at that level). Then came a year of destroying Double A to the tune of a .980 OPS (Jacobs' was .943, also excellent but not quite Shealy's mark). Then came a .994 OPS in his first year of Triple A (compared to .519 for Jacobs), and a call up to the bigs, where he OPS'd .886 (22% above the league average).

Despite that, he was farmed out again the next year. Why? Because he sucked? No, he still OPS'd .919 in Triple A. His problem, his sole problem, was that he was stuck playing first base in an NL organization that didn't need a DH and had a possible future Hall of Famer, Todd Helton, camped at first base for the big club. But he continued to rake, and continued to have good trade value, so finally the Rockies dealt him away for pitching, and he promptly OPS'd .789 for a bad Royals team (just above league average).

So he had the first base job won going into 2007, and would finally get his shot to be a big league regular. What happened? He got hurt, which led to a bad start, a demotion, and finally having his season ended early. Opportunity lost.

Did he sulk? Did he hang them up? Nope, he arrived in Spring Training in shape and healthy and promptly raked the ball (.273 avg, .576 SLG, tied for the team lead in homers), only to see the Royals hand his job to Ross Gload. So he goes back to Triple A yet again, and posts another solid year (.879 OPS), earning yet another call up where he led the big leagues in homers for much of September and posted an OPS+ of 152.

In short, once you account for his injury year in '07 and the fact that he was blocked in Colorado, there is no reason to look at Shealy's record and think he can't produce at least at Jacobs' level in a full-time role, and likely better. He outperformed Jacobs at every level of the minors. Take away his '07 injury year and Shealy has also outperformed Jacobs at the big league level. In all non-injury big league time, Shealy has hit .295/.358/.486. That's a .844 OPS, compared to Jacobs' .816, and it's weighted better by including an above average on-base percentage.

Add in the fact that he's a better defender and is cheaper, in terms of both dollars and talent needed to obtain him, and it's inexplicable to me why the Royals didn't give him the everyday first base job next year and use Nunez in a different deal for a catcher or corner outfielder. If they still didn't have some hope for him, then why call him up in September at the expense of big-league at bats for Ka'aihue? If there were questions about him, why not answer them by letting him play every day at first base this season instead of wasting everyone's time by giving those at bats to Ross Gload? I cannot understand why the Royals have handled him the way they have.

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#647175 - 11/11/08 05:44 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: Hawk1990]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Why the hell didn't we just ask for Josh Willingham instead?
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#647176 - 07/01/09 08:26 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jnewell]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

I'm going to have to disagree. I like Shealy a lot, but this was a steal for Dayton. The Royals haven't had a guy hit 30 home runs since Jermaine Dye. Here, they got a legitimate power guy who is entering his prime (turned 28 today) for Nunez, a frequently injured reliever with a violent motion who never proved he could handle the workload of a starter. Around the league, I'm sure people are shaking their heads wondering why the Marlins would make such a deal. Remember, also, that Shealy is no spring chicken (29). This is a steal for Dayton, whether the Royals needed a first baseman or not.




*COUGH*
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#647177 - 07/01/09 08:30 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: JFish26]
georgiahawk Offline
John Brown

Registered: 08/05/05
But he is so cute with that wad in his mouth. BTW, why does he always bite his batting glove between pitches?
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Out.

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#647178 - 07/01/09 08:33 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: georgiahawk]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Quote:

But he is so cute with that wad in his mouth. BTW, why does he always bite his batting glove between pitches?




Why do you continue to watch on TV?
_________________________
" Stay thirsty my friends ".

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#647179 - 07/01/09 08:45 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jammahawk]
georgiahawk Offline
John Brown

Registered: 08/05/05
Where else would I watch?
_________________________
Out.

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#647180 - 07/02/09 09:51 AM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: EastCoastJHawk]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

Quote:

Talk to me on June 1 when Ka'aihue is bending the minor leagues to his will and Jacobs is sitting .220/.280/.450.




My Alzheimer's won't let me remember this conversation on June 1.

Remind me then.

Just make sure you do it whether you're "right" or "wrong"

m'kay?




In a friendly, I know we're on the same page now kind of way:

.229/.310/.416

This was an entirely lucky guess (and yeah, it's July 2, not June 1) but I missed his OPS by .004!
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#647181 - 07/02/09 10:38 AM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: JFish26]
EastCoastJHawk Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/13/07
Loc: On the sofa
I have no problem saying you were right. You nailed it head-on.
_________________________
"I would not be at all shocked if Illinois is in the same league as KU in 2 years" - Gutter 3/11/09

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#647182 - 07/02/09 01:43 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: EastCoastJHawk]
jnewell Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 08/07/08
Loc: Lawrence, KS
JFish Where's my crow? I'm here to eat it.

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#647183 - 07/02/09 01:44 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jnewell]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

JFish Where's my crow? I'm here to eat it.




Look up.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#647184 - 07/02/09 01:49 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: JFish26]
jnewell Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 08/07/08
Loc: Lawrence, KS
I saw the, um, bumped post.

I will say this. I think this trade hurt the Royals more than it helped the Marlins. Nunez isn't lighting the world on fire with the Fish.

But the trade did block either Shealy or Kila from the lineup. Right now, the Royals need Kila more than anyone else. He's at least walking.

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#647185 - 07/02/09 01:51 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jnewell]
theno1kufan Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/09/09
Loc: Lawrence, KS
then what do we do with Jacobs? do you want to be the one that takes the baseball bat to his knees?

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#647186 - 07/02/09 01:53 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: jnewell]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

I saw the, um, bumped post.

I will say this. I think this trade hurt the Royals more than it helped the Marlins. Nunez isn't lighting the world on fire with the Fish.

But the trade did block either Shealy or Kila from the lineup. Right now, the Royals need Kila more than anyone else. He's at least walking.




In no way is the Jacobs trade the difference between contention and putridity, but it's just the kind of move that can't be made by a team with such comparatively limited resources. I'd love to see Kila get his shot, but I'm scared to death of how it would be handled. Would starting his season 2-23 or something effectively end his Royals career? Kila needs to be handed a close-to-full-time job and given the chance to adjust to the majors and show what he can do.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#647187 - 07/02/09 02:00 PM Re: Fire Dayton [Re: JFish26]
jnewell Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 08/07/08
Loc: Lawrence, KS
To be totally fair, JFish, you did say June 1 with your prediction.

Jacobs didn't play on June 1, but on May 31 he was:

.248/.330/.478

That's not a ton better than your prediction of .220/.280/.450, but obviously his recent numbers have tumbled since his horrible June.

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