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#204800 - 10/19/07 03:19 PM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: jdavis34]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Statistics in no way can measure the true value of a good defensive fielder. There is no stat that shows the number of time a runner didn't try to advance a base because the fielder has a strong accurate arm. No stat will ever show the number balls fielded in the gap to hold a runner to a single instead of extra bases.
I doubt if Manny holds any of those intangables. That said, I'd love to have his bat in my lineup.
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#204801 - 10/19/07 03:25 PM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: jdavis34]
HawkLaw Offline
Big Dipper

Registered: 12/03/05
Loc: Lawrence, KS USA
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#204802 - 10/19/07 03:25 PM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: jammahawk]
jdavis34 Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 02/15/07
Loc: Lawrence, KS
What are you talking about? Ever heard of zone rating and range factor? Those do a good job of measuring defensive fielders.

Also, everyone knows who has a strong arm...Vlad, Ichiro, Francouer, etc.

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#204803 - 10/19/07 03:26 PM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: jdavis34]
jdavis34 Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 02/15/07
Loc: Lawrence, KS
BTW, I hate how Joe Buck said he "debuted" this dance that Paps did.

IT's been on youtube for a while: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMl6NWjv5r0

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#204804 - 10/19/07 03:36 PM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: jdavis34]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Actually no I haven't. I'd say Joe average baseball fan, which I am one, rates a fielder by errors, assists.
How is zone rating and range factor calculated.
Yes, everyone knows of the strong arms, but unless you can put a stat on it, it's lost to some people. People know who the fast people are, but it doesn't mean anything to some until they see how many stolen bases they've had.
Like I said earlier in the thread, I'd love to have Manny's bat in my lineup, but to build him up to anything but a below average outfielder is like calling Billy Butler a slick fielding first baseman.
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#204805 - 10/19/07 03:41 PM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: jammahawk]
HawkLaw Offline
Big Dipper

Registered: 12/03/05
Loc: Lawrence, KS USA
Zone Rating



Definitions:

BIZ: Balls in zone
Plays: Plays made in zone
ZR: Zone rating
OOZ: Plays made out of zone
Chances: BIZ + OOZ
Total Plays: Plays + OOZ

Plays above average is found by finding the league average ZR, multiplying by Chances, and comparing to total plays made. This is for illustration purposes; I am using the total of this group of qualified players instead of the actual league average which would include starters and reserves. In addition, Chris Dial uses (correctly in my opinion) the AL and NL averages instead of an overall MLB average. There are factors (such as pitcher hitting) that make within league comparisons more accurate than overall comparisons.
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#204806 - 10/19/07 03:44 PM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: HawkLaw]
HawkLaw Offline
Big Dipper

Registered: 12/03/05
Loc: Lawrence, KS USA
Range Factor measures the number of attempts a fielder attempts in an average game.

Range Factor = (assists + putouts)/games
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Never trust a man who hasn't been arrested at least once.

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#204807 - 10/20/07 07:36 AM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: HawkLaw]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
My first thought is that the idea of determining what each players zone is, is very subjective, but then so is awarding an outfielder an error by the official scorer. What the hell, I'll buy into it, I'm somewhat of a stat freak. Who compiles these stats anyway? Seams it would have to be someone present at the game.
I still say there are many things an outfielder does defensively that never appears on a stat sheet.


Edited by jammahawk (10/20/07 07:37 AM)
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#204808 - 10/21/07 09:03 PM Re: Manny Ramirez [Re: jammahawk]
jdavis34 Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 02/15/07
Loc: Lawrence, KS
oh hey gaiz, I got a outfield assist lol

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