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#2042303 - 09/08/19 11:08 AM Offense ive
DrGreydog Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 12/04/11
Loc: Topeka
I have seen folks blaming Coach Miles for "his" play calling.

My question is who is calling the plays, Coch Miles or Coach Koenning?
Whoever it is is limited by the quarterbacks ability to hold onto the ball through
an entire throwing motion. One that throws the ball to people on his own team.
I can't speak to the "mechanics" of being a quarterback, but I have serious doubts
about Carter Stanley's ability to consistantly to maneuver this team into a position
to score points, much less win games.

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#2042365 - 09/10/19 12:37 AM Re: Offense ive [Re: DrGreydog]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Word I've been hearing since Fall practices began, that we're running Mile's O. Don't know how much play calling he's been making during the game, but the O and the O game plan has been largely his.

I agree Stanley is a gamer, but he's not a great pocket passer. We've got some top level RPO offensive minds on our staff and coach Miles needs to let them run the O IMHO. I believe Stanley would run a RPO offense much better and we'd score A LOT MORE.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2042368 - 09/10/19 07:09 AM Re: Offense ive [Re: DrGreydog]
moose1 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
Could they switch it up at this point.

So frustrating with the coach trying to force an offense when he doesn’t have the players. I thought we were past this.

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#2042370 - 09/10/19 08:23 AM Re: Offense ive [Re: moose1]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
I think we've got the coaches capable of switching it up without a ton of problems. I believe we had practiced some of it already.

What we've run in our first 2 games is an offense that might have worked 20 years ago but hasn't worked in the modern game even with elite talent. It's not an O you can win games with in the Big 12 unless your D becomes a dominating top 5 level D IMO. Our D has played well enough, but it's nowhere near that good.

I mean, we've got one of the best offensive players in the nation on our team and we didn't run just about any plays that gave him the ball in space, where he's nearly unstoppable. Instead we run him between the tackles while the other team has the box stacked with 8 or 9 guys and at least a couple times they had 10 guys in the box.

We did try and run a screen for him once, but again we struggled to block that play properly just like we did in our 1st game.

I think we've got a lot of very good coaches on our team right now and coach Miles is a Hall of Fame coach who knows what he's doing in running a team, but the knock on him back in his LSU days was he didn't have O's that played up to their potential. You can get away with that when you have high level talent at just about every position like he did at LSU, but when you don't you get what we've seen in our 1st two games. There's no way in the world Coastal Carolina's D should have been able to hold us to 7 points if we ran any kind of competent O even with Stanley at the helm at QB.

A lot of head coaches who like to run the O side of the ball have a very hard time loosening up the reigns and letting their coaching staff have more control of the O, even when it's clear what they're doing isn't working. I hope this doesn't prove to be the case for us under coach Miles. Obviously, I could be wrong in my opinion here and this O starts working more and more, but I highly doubt it based on what we've seen so far.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2042371 - 09/10/19 09:17 AM Re: Offense ive [Re: DrGreydog]
moose1 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
I will give Snyder credit there. He was always willing to switch things up so his schemes best fit the talent he had, and not try to force his preferred scheme on his players even if they were ill suited for them.

Do you think Long is coaching the coach a little bit so to speak? Not telling him what to run, but just telling him to be willing to switch things up.

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#2042374 - 09/10/19 11:00 AM Re: Offense ive [Re: DrGreydog]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: DrGreydog
I have seen folks blaming Coach Miles for "his" play calling.

My question is who is calling the plays, Coch Miles or Coach Koenning?
Whoever it is is limited by the quarterbacks ability to hold onto the ball through
an entire throwing motion. One that throws the ball to people on his own team.
I can't speak to the "mechanics" of being a quarterback, but I have serious doubts
about Carter Stanley's ability to consistantly to maneuver this team into a position
to score points, much less win games.


QB isn't the issue. Offensive line play is at the heart of it. We are totally unable to run to the right, even designed plays get blown up so quickly that the backs end up cutting left 90% of the time. McCauly spent most of the game getting shoved into his own backfield from the RT spot on running plays and getting beat by quicker DL's on pass protection. What should be a strength position group with a bunch of upperclassmen is a weakness for what can only be assumed is a lack of talent.

If not corrected to some degree, we won't win another game. Tom Brady could be the QB to boot! Hope springs eternal, so I still think this team can have some success....if for no other reason than we have a solid and salty defense.

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#2042377 - 09/10/19 12:44 PM Re: Offense ive [Re: moose1]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
Do you think Long is coaching the coach a little bit so to speak? Not telling him what to run, but just telling him to be willing to switch things up.
Don't think Long has spoken to coach Miles about any of this and I don't think he would at this point in time. Coach Miles' last couple years at LSU were marked by some rumored back and forth between him and their AD to implement a new more modern O though. Seemed coach Miles agreed and brought in some new coaches, but come game time they didn't run a much different O and that in part lead to his firing.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2042378 - 09/10/19 12:48 PM Re: Offense ive [Re: beenahawk]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: beenahawk
QB isn't the issue. Offensive line play is at the heart of it. We are totally unable to run to the right, even designed plays get blown up so quickly that the backs end up cutting left 90% of the time. McCauly spent most of the game getting shoved into his own backfield from the RT spot on running plays and getting beat by quicker DL's on pass protection. What should be a strength position group with a bunch of upperclassmen is a weakness for what can only be assumed is a lack of talent.

If not corrected to some degree, we won't win another game. Tom Brady could be the QB to boot! Hope springs eternal, so I still think this team can have some success....if for no other reason than we have a solid and salty defense.
I agree this has been a part of our pathetic offensive performance so far. The OL play has been really bad so far. The right side of the line has been a sieve. I think the OL coach needs to pick who he thinks are the best guys for the 2 deep and stick with them. I think the constant rotation of guys just breeds more failure and doesn't allow guys to develop chemistry on the line. We saw the same thing under Weis.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2042379 - 09/10/19 01:09 PM Re: Offense ive [Re: Kman_blue]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
“It’s amazing how few offensive linemen Miles sent to the NFL”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nola.co...01c70d.amp.html

Certainly Les Miles had plenty of players drafted into the NFL.... but not many offensive lineman..... Reasons for Ku fans to be concerned?

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#2042384 - 09/10/19 04:49 PM Re: Offense ive [Re: track]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: track
“It’s amazing how few offensive linemen Miles sent to the NFL”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nola.co...01c70d.amp.html

Certainly Les Miles had plenty of players drafted into the NFL.... but not many offensive lineman..... Reasons for Ku fans to be concerned?


Miles knows where the game is played...he's an old Bo Schembeckler lineman himself. My current concern is just how bad both Feder and McCauly are playing at RT. No excuse for that type of performance from upper classmen.

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#2042387 - 09/10/19 06:32 PM Re: Offense ive [Re: Kman_blue]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: beenahawk
QB isn't the issue. Offensive line play is at the heart of it. We are totally unable to run to the right, even designed plays get blown up so quickly that the backs end up cutting left 90% of the time. McCauly spent most of the game getting shoved into his own backfield from the RT spot on running plays and getting beat by quicker DL's on pass protection. What should be a strength position group with a bunch of upperclassmen is a weakness for what can only be assumed is a lack of talent.

If not corrected to some degree, we won't win another game. Tom Brady could be the QB to boot! Hope springs eternal, so I still think this team can have some success....if for no other reason than we have a solid and salty defense.
I agree this has been a part of our pathetic offensive performance so far. The OL play has been really bad so far. The right side of the line has been a sieve. I think the OL coach needs to pick who he thinks are the best guys for the 2 deep and stick with them. I think the constant rotation of guys just breeds more failure and doesn't allow guys to develop chemistry on the line. We saw the same thing under Weis.

I think this is a good take from Dale Rogers
“If I understand what Miles is saying, they are essentially trying different things with the o-line guys to figure out what works and what doesn't. That actually makes sense to me. You can't figure that out when you're only playing against your own team. You have to do it against real competition. Once they figure out what works, then they can really start to show improvement on the field. You cannot correct mistakes until you know what those mistakes are. Basketball can do that experimentation in the exhibition games, which do not show up in the record. Plus, there are enough basketball games in the season, those exhibition games are forgotten by season end. In football, it all shows up in the record. I'll give them time to figure it all out. I'm expecting to see progress, slowly, but surely, by mid-season. To blast them before that is short-sighted.”

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#2042388 - 09/10/19 07:50 PM Re: Offense ive [Re: track]
moose1 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: beenahawk
QB isn't the issue. Offensive line play is at the heart of it. We are totally unable to run to the right, even designed plays get blown up so quickly that the backs end up cutting left 90% of the time. McCauly spent most of the game getting shoved into his own backfield from the RT spot on running plays and getting beat by quicker DL's on pass protection. What should be a strength position group with a bunch of upperclassmen is a weakness for what can only be assumed is a lack of talent.

If not corrected to some degree, we won't win another game. Tom Brady could be the QB to boot! Hope springs eternal, so I still think this team can have some success....if for no other reason than we have a solid and salty defense.
I agree this has been a part of our pathetic offensive performance so far. The OL play has been really bad so far. The right side of the line has been a sieve. I think the OL coach needs to pick who he thinks are the best guys for the 2 deep and stick with them. I think the constant rotation of guys just breeds more failure and doesn't allow guys to develop chemistry on the line. We saw the same thing under Weis.

I think this is a good take from Dale Rogers
“If I understand what Miles is saying, they are essentially trying different things with the o-line guys to figure out what works and what doesn't. That actually makes sense to me. You can't figure that out when you're only playing against your own team. You have to do it against real competition. Once they figure out what works, then they can really start to show improvement on the field. You cannot correct mistakes until you know what those mistakes are. Basketball can do that experimentation in the exhibition games, which do not show up in the record. Plus, there are enough basketball games in the season, those exhibition games are forgotten by season end. In football, it all shows up in the record. I'll give them time to figure it all out. I'm expecting to see progress, slowly, but surely, by mid-season. To blast them before that is short-sighted.”



Really?!?! IT IS COASTAL CAROLINA! Besides KU's defense is not that bad. Were they not going hard in practice? I sure hope they were. I hate to bring up the fat man again, but one of the things he did great was make everything a competition. You play hard whether it is tiddly winks, pickup basketball, gagaball, football practice, live games, whatever. All that slow progress sounds good, but it is all crap. If everyone is ahead of you they are getting better too. I think we see it each year KU does get better as the year goes on, but they never catch anyone. Next year they will have new players in place. This was a year KU should be decent on the line, because they have players that have been here for awhile. That is another excuse I have heard. "KU needs players to be here a couple years to get and develop." Well this is the most stable line KU has had and they are still awful. I fail to believe the team is this bad. I know it is better, and can do more. They are just used to failing, and it is beyond them how to win games. Until they get past that this will never change.

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#2042390 - 09/10/19 09:49 PM Re: Offense ive [Re: moose1]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
If you are not athletic and you are slow and lack in quickness...you can train for 10 years and you still will be slow,not quick and unathletic.....that appears to be the case with several of our offensive lineman. We have to recruit better athletes and then build their strength and skill set.

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#2042726 - Yesterday at 02:07 AM Re: Offense ive [Re: track]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: beenahawk
QB isn't the issue. Offensive line play is at the heart of it. We are totally unable to run to the right, even designed plays get blown up so quickly that the backs end up cutting left 90% of the time. McCauly spent most of the game getting shoved into his own backfield from the RT spot on running plays and getting beat by quicker DL's on pass protection. What should be a strength position group with a bunch of upperclassmen is a weakness for what can only be assumed is a lack of talent.

If not corrected to some degree, we won't win another game. Tom Brady could be the QB to boot! Hope springs eternal, so I still think this team can have some success....if for no other reason than we have a solid and salty defense.
I agree this has been a part of our pathetic offensive performance so far. The OL play has been really bad so far. The right side of the line has been a sieve. I think the OL coach needs to pick who he thinks are the best guys for the 2 deep and stick with them. I think the constant rotation of guys just breeds more failure and doesn't allow guys to develop chemistry on the line. We saw the same thing under Weis.

I think this is a good take from Dale Rogers
“If I understand what Miles is saying, they are essentially trying different things with the o-line guys to figure out what works and what doesn't. That actually makes sense to me. You can't figure that out when you're only playing against your own team. You have to do it against real competition. Once they figure out what works, then they can really start to show improvement on the field. You cannot correct mistakes until you know what those mistakes are. Basketball can do that experimentation in the exhibition games, which do not show up in the record. Plus, there are enough basketball games in the season, those exhibition games are forgotten by season end. In football, it all shows up in the record. I'll give them time to figure it all out. I'm expecting to see progress, slowly, but surely, by mid-season. To blast them before that is short-sighted.”


Must have figured something out!

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#2042727 - Yesterday at 02:11 AM Re: Offense ive [Re: moose1]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: moose1
Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: beenahawk
QB isn't the issue. Offensive line play is at the heart of it. We are totally unable to run to the right, even designed plays get blown up so quickly that the backs end up cutting left 90% of the time. McCauly spent most of the game getting shoved into his own backfield from the RT spot on running plays and getting beat by quicker DL's on pass protection. What should be a strength position group with a bunch of upperclassmen is a weakness for what can only be assumed is a lack of talent.

If not corrected to some degree, we won't win another game. Tom Brady could be the QB to boot! Hope springs eternal, so I still think this team can have some success....if for no other reason than we have a solid and salty defense.
I agree this has been a part of our pathetic offensive performance so far. The OL play has been really bad so far. The right side of the line has been a sieve. I think the OL coach needs to pick who he thinks are the best guys for the 2 deep and stick with them. I think the constant rotation of guys just breeds more failure and doesn't allow guys to develop chemistry on the line. We saw the same thing under Weis.

I think this is a good take from Dale Rogers
“If I understand what Miles is saying, they are essentially trying different things with the o-line guys to figure out what works and what doesn't. That actually makes sense to me. You can't figure that out when you're only playing against your own team. You have to do it against real competition. Once they figure out what works, then they can really start to show improvement on the field. You cannot correct mistakes until you know what those mistakes are. Basketball can do that experimentation in the exhibition games, which do not show up in the record. Plus, there are enough basketball games in the season, those exhibition games are forgotten by season end. In football, it all shows up in the record. I'll give them time to figure it all out. I'm expecting to see progress, slowly, but surely, by mid-season. To blast them before that is short-sighted.”



Really?!?! IT IS COASTAL CAROLINA! Besides KU's defense is not that bad. Were they not going hard in practice? I sure hope they were. I hate to bring up the fat man again, but one of the things he did great was make everything a competition. You play hard whether it is tiddly winks, pickup basketball, gagaball, football practice, live games, whatever. All that slow progress sounds good, but it is all crap. If everyone is ahead of you they are getting better too. I think we see it each year KU does get better as the year goes on, but they never catch anyone. Next year they will have new players in place. This was a year KU should be decent on the line, because they have players that have been here for awhile. That is another excuse I have heard. "KU needs players to be here a couple years to get and develop." Well this is the most stable line KU has had and they are still awful. I fail to believe the team is this bad. I know it is better, and can do more. They are just used to failing, and it is beyond them how to win games. Until they get past that this will never change.

They must have gotten past something tonight!

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