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#2034704 - 10/24/18 10:01 PM Until Proven Otherwise
Jayhawk1952 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
I will take Coach Self at his word. He has now spoken and has clearly denied any wrong doing by himself or his staff. Yes, I know what a defense lawyer said, and I know how they tried to spin texting to sound like money was involved. Lawyers will say anything to try and win their case. But there has been no actual proof that Self or any of his staff knew about under the table money. Until such proof can be given otherwise, I will take Self at his word. It does sound like we might lose De Sousa, time will tell. Would hate to lose him but we will be okay without him.

At this point there is no shadow cast over our Jayhawk program. The only possible shadow is that of people's run-away imagination and that includes Tom Keegan.

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#2034708 - 10/24/18 11:38 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
I like to live in your land...Fairy Tale Land that is....we really dont know what might happen. Bill is not pure as the wind driven snow...hopefully it wont be too bad.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#2034710 - 10/25/18 12:02 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
So what your saying is you think Self is above and beyond holier than now, pretty much a saint?
He is not, nor are most of the elite names in the profession. I hate to say this but Weber, up the road, has been insinuating this for a few years now. Rick Barnes made mention of this a few times in regard to Self and how he runs his program. Frank Martin made mention of it a few times.

Does it change alot of peoples minds about Self and this program overall? We want to win don't we?

I think were kind of naive about this thing overall. Selby, Diallo, Alexander, Preston, and De Sousa...........coincidence? We have kept that NCAA office of violations open for business alot more than most schools have recently.


Edited by Jaycat92 (10/25/18 12:03 AM)

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#2034712 - 10/25/18 07:47 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jaycat92]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
The ncaa will have their say. We will not come out of this unscathed.

Hopefully HCBS means it when he says he is done talking about the trial. I love the man. I love what he has done at KANSAS. But he sounds stupid trying to convince us he and his staff are completely clean. Running a squeaky clean program. Less is more.

My knee jerk reaction tells me we have to separate from adidas. But where do we go from here. nike and ua are equally as stinky.

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#2034716 - 10/25/18 08:53 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
Sounds like we have a lot of cynicism among the Jayhawk faithful concerning Self. Personally, I still adhere to the old standard of “Innocent until proven guilty.” Self’s never done anything that I’m aware of that would cause me to question his ethics.

Taking what a lawyer says in court as gospel truth is where I’m cynical. How many people have been “proven” to be guilty by a prosecuting attorney and later found to be innocent? To many! How many persons have been “proven” to be innocent by a defense lawyer and later shown to be guilty? To many!

The exact same thing can be said about public opinion. Public opinion can be quite fickle. This is also true about some sports writers, even on the LWJ. Until proven facts are laid out on the table, I’m assuming and accepting that Bill Self and his staff are clean.

Even the raised eyebrows and questioning looks from opposing coaches carry no weight. How much of that comes from jealously or envy? I wouldn’t put an ounce of trust in what Bruce Webber, or a number of other coaches, might say or think about Bill Self that is negative.

Perhaps some of you would prefer that Self not go after 5 star recruits any more and just stick with 3 star recruits or less. That should at least reduce the number of howling wolves! Simply going after and getting the type of recruits that Self does (top notched), is going to cause some to think he has to be underhanded.

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#2034717 - 10/25/18 09:02 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jayhawk1952 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
The NCAA is as much of a problem as anything else. They are totally fickle as well. They're certainly not even handed. They seem to have their own agenda to fit whatever purposes they desire.

Case in point. They soundly penalized KU when Larry Brown paid for a ticket to help a young man go to his grandmother's funeral. Wrong? Yes. We were not allowed to return to the NCAA Tourney to defend our title the next year. We almost were given the "death penalty!" A very short time later, UNLV comments several much more serious violations. They are allowed to defend their NCAA title the next year. Yes, very even handed!

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#2034718 - 10/25/18 09:08 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
blah blah blah the ncaa $uck$ blah blah blah. Yes we know.

You should take HCBS advice and stop talking about it. You sound as silly as he did at his presser last night.

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#2034719 - 10/25/18 09:18 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Or maybe you are a member of HCBS public relations team. If so, then please continue.

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#2034720 - 10/25/18 09:18 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
blah blah blah the ncaa $uck$ blah blah blah. Yes we know.

You should take HCBS advice and stop talking about it. You sound as silly as he did at his presser last night.


I don't sound any silly than you do as you seem to keep coming back on and having your say.

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#2034721 - 10/25/18 09:21 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
Or maybe you are a member of HCBS public relations team. If so, then please continue.


Yes, and I'm being paid "None of Your Business Bucks" under the table to promote Self.

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#2034724 - 10/25/18 10:36 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Oh no now an influx of lengthy novellas from the High Plains Ancient Farmer. Hey you can battle KY Jelly now..I am done with it.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#2034725 - 10/25/18 10:40 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Ooops it seems that you are battling michhawk instead. Dont worry even you can dominate the Port Urine Moron. In a battle of wits michhawk comes unarmed. And believe me only michhawk on here would be tickled pink if our starting 5 were all 3 star players that would stay 4 yrs...he hates the one and dones...because he's an idiot.


Edited by PHOGUSHER (10/25/18 10:41 AM)
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#2034727 - 10/25/18 11:36 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
We're going to find out if HCBS runs a clean program or not. Because no doubt the ncaa is going to open up an investigation into the University of KANSAS basketball program.

No doubt about it. We have an ncaa cavity search coming our way.

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#2034728 - 10/25/18 11:39 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
You will get in line for that...wouldn't you. Mich loves the cavity searches...lol. NOTHING is going to happen to old KU.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#2034729 - 10/25/18 11:40 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Hey did you mods finally ban KY....if so bravo...if not boooo...hisssss.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#2034730 - 10/25/18 12:00 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: PHOGUSHER]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
NOTHING is going to happen to old KU.


Taking into account that you are wrong 100% of the time. I am scared.

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#2034731 - 10/25/18 12:16 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
More right than wrong...of course you're too stupid to know the difference. Again nothing will happen to KU..Self..or Kurtis. Kurtis wife be hawt.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#2034732 - 10/25/18 12:28 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
If KU falls, no doubt many other programs will fall. The NCAA needs to remember who they are and why they are in existence. They were created by the schools to help govern the athletic programs. That is the only reason they exist and continue to exist. Our own Phog Allen was very instrumental in helping this to happen. These same schools can disband the NCAA or form another organization to oversee the schools' athletic programs. They need to wise up and realize that they exist for the schools and not for themselves.

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#2034733 - 10/25/18 12:45 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
If KU falls, no doubt many other programs will fall. The NCAA needs to remember who they are and why they are in existence. They were created by the schools to help govern the athletic programs. That is the only reason they exist and continue to exist. Our own Phog Allen was very instrumental in helping this to happen. These same schools can disband the NCAA or form another organization to oversee the schools' athletic programs. They need to wise up and realize that they exist for the schools and not for themselves.


So........you're saying the ncaa needs to stop with the enforcement and let their member institutions do whatever they want? That's what you said you know.

I bet you'd be singing a different tune if we were talking about khintuckey or duke or unc or whoever else managed to get themselves busted with their hand in the cookie jar.

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#2034734 - 10/25/18 01:25 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
You don't read very well. I didn't say anything about stopping enforcement of rules. I believe that they need to be enforced and done so evenhandedly which they haven't always done across the years. You are a prime example of what many people are doing right now with Self, reading into whatever you're reading and seeing what you want to see or think you see. That's a very dumb way of figuring out guilty or not guilty. Some of the LWJ writers are really getting good at that. Perhaps you should get hired on with them.

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#2034735 - 10/25/18 01:30 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
I do agree with Gusher. I don't foresee us getting in any real trouble. I think we could see some minor infractions and move forward. I don't think De Sousa will ever suit up again, and he shouldn't! In fact, I think the young man ought to leave now and start working towards his G-league deal now. I will commend KU on one thing here, and thats the fact that we have kept our questionable athletes off the court. De Sousa was cleared to play last season by the NCAA. I don't think that anything from last season will get tarnished.

Wow, and coaches and schools in the Big 8 complained because we hired Ed Manning to be an assistant in order to get Danny!

We need to become either a Jordan brand team, or New Balance!

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#2034736 - 10/25/18 01:33 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
I guess we'll find out soon enough. Because you can bet your bottom dollar the ncaa is going to open up an investigation into the University of KANSAS mens basketball program.

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#2034737 - 10/25/18 01:42 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jaycat92]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: Jaycat92
I will commend KU on one thing here, and thats the fact that we have kept our questionable athletes off the court.


I question why we keep having questionable athletes. We seem to specialize in questionable athletes lately. Too many questionable athletes in the last 10 years. We have a substantial scrap pile of questionable athletes in the last 10 years or so. sds. cheek dealio. Clifford alexander. josh Shelby. billy preston. carlton bragg.

We didn't get our monies worth on any of them.

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#2034738 - 10/25/18 01:55 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
Am I surprised that we are mentioned with cheating and paying players? NO. Am I disappointed, sure a little. Like I posted previously. There is no coincidence in the fact that in the last few years we have had players like Selby, Cliff Alexander, Diallo, Preston and now De Sousa sit out for being under investigation. Its obvious that we are not completely doing things right, or completely doing things wrong.

Were we ever under investigation for anything when Roy was head man here? Did we ever have players coming in as recruits sit out so their eligibility was verified?

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#2034740 - 10/25/18 02:01 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
Originally Posted By: Jaycat92
I will commend KU on one thing here, and thats the fact that we have kept our questionable athletes off the court.


I question why we keep having questionable athletes. We seem to specialize in questionable athletes lately. Too many questionable athletes in the last 10 years. We have a substantial scrap pile of questionable athletes in the last 10 years or so. sds. cheek dealio. Clifford alexander. josh Shelby. billy preston. carlton bragg.

We didn't get our monies worth on any of them.


Yeah all the time spent to get those players above eligible, and none of them really ever were a part of anything special here. I do know or at least think I know other schools and shoe companies are doing the same thing. This isn't just an Adidas thing. I guess I would like to know when it all started, and to what level? I am a little irritated by this because it really makes me wonder now if some or alot of our better players came here now because they wanted to, or because they were given to the highest bidder.

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#2034743 - 10/25/18 02:08 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
I don't want to be to negative towards Coach Self because of players like Morningstar, Reed, Releford, Lucas, Mason and Graham who came here as decent players and left here really really good players who did things the right way. I would like to believe we have had as many of those types of kids come here as we have had shoe contract players come here.

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#2034750 - 10/25/18 03:27 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jaycat92]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
HCBS has had his greatest success at KANSAS with 3-4 year players. His FF rosters have been full with 3-4 year players. I might be wrong, but I don't think his FF teams here at KANSAS have included 1 OAD player.

It's no secret I favor upperclassmen.

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#2034753 - 10/25/18 04:33 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
Originally Posted By: Jaycat92
I will commend KU on one thing here, and thats the fact that we have kept our questionable athletes off the court.


I question why we keep having questionable athletes. We seem to specialize in questionable athletes lately. Too many questionable athletes in the last 10 years. We have a substantial scrap pile of questionable athletes in the last 10 years or so. sds. cheek dealio. Clifford alexander. josh Shelby. billy preston. carlton bragg.

We didn't get our monies worth on any of them.


In most cases the answer is quite simple -- we are dealing with young men who are still in their teens. Some don't develope as hoped, others don't want to put in the work necessary, there are those who can't seem to stay out of trouble, some just don't fit in, etc. The list goes back far more than 10 years and is a problem for most schools, not just KU, nor Self. All coaches have to deal with this. If you think Roy didn't at KU or UNC, you don't know your history.

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#2034754 - 10/25/18 04:40 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Michhawk...never go full retard...I apologize to the real mentally handicapped individuals out there. Oh who am I fooling michhawk be mentally handicapped...big time.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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#2034756 - 10/25/18 05:01 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: PHOGUSHER]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Michhawk...never go full retard...I apologize to the real mentally handicapped individuals out there. Oh who am I fooling michhawk be mentally handicapped...big time.
michawk- your list of questionable jhawks played sparingly after the program found out about irregular things. Just a sign of the times for this decade.

I think you said this-kids being kids.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

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#2034767 - 10/25/18 10:21 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Michhawk...never go full retard...I apologize to the real mentally handicapped individuals out there. Oh who am I fooling michhawk be mentally handicapped...big time.
michawk- your list of questionable jhawks played sparingly after the program found out about irregular things. Just a sign of the times for this decade.

I think you said this-kids being kids.


Kids will be kids, but this is more about the adults involved with these kids. We all know that all major players involved in this thing(Nike, Adidas, ETC) have been doing this for a very long time. I guess if most are ok with knowing that we or other schools have benefitted from our shoe guy lending some money to help the cause of winning, so be it, right ?
Now we know why so many recruits go on visits and love certain places, and at some point change there minds to a totally unexpected choice.............nice!


Edited by Jaycat92 (10/25/18 10:23 PM)

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#2034801 - 10/27/18 03:25 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Josh2408 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/03/15
Loc: Indiana
My only fear is how many schollie's will each program lose because of these investigations? How much will they handicap each sport
_________________________
Kansas Football will rise from the ashes to burn all to flames once again

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#2035265 - 11/07/18 09:35 AM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jaycat92]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
The federal bureau of investigation has given the ncaa its' blessing to investigate. So they may get into the investigations sooner than we had first thought.

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#2035305 - 11/07/18 10:47 PM Re: Until Proven Otherwise [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
I guess its time to get this thing moving forward. I don't think the NCAA will do a lot right now. They already look like they are late to the party and wink, wink, will act like they didn't know anything about this stuff either. My guess is they will investigate for a few weeks, and then find that schools and coaches didn't really know what was going on and conclude that no wrong doing was going on.

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