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#2033487 - 09/14/18 04:33 PM kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation
Josh2408 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/03/15
Loc: Indiana
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Kansas Football will rise from the ashes to burn all to flames once again

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#2033488 - 09/14/18 05:11 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
58hawk Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Not bad but we really haven't played anyone yet.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2033493 - 09/14/18 10:47 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
INation Offline
Thunderhawk

Registered: 09/20/14
Don't mean S#!t. KU had a top 5 recruiting class at one point last year and see how that turned out! I imagine we'll end up ranked in the 75-85 range by years end.

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#2033508 - 09/15/18 02:50 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: INation]
Jman1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: INation
Don't mean S#!t. KU had a top 5 recruiting class at one point last year and see how that turned out! I imagine we'll end up ranked in the 75-85 range by years end.


I think you mean more like 105 after the B9 Rib roastings, but if they continue to get those yummy apple turnovers, they might actually be in the 50s or 60s at years end

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#2033580 - 09/17/18 04:11 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Now sitting at #15 D in the nation after the Rutgers game.

Some more numbers to take a gander at.

KU's current national rank(conf. rank) and (stat)
#1(#1) Defensive TD's (3)
#1(#1) Turnover margin (+4.00/game)
#1(#1) Turnovers gained (+13.00)
#1(#1) Interceptions thrown (0 only Big 12 team without 1)
#2(#1) Pass efficiency D (81.05)
#2(#1) Interceptions (7)
#2(#1) Fumbles recovered (6)
#2(#1) Turnovers lost (1)
#4(#2) blocked punts (2)
#14(#1) passing yards allowed (147.7)
#15(#1) Total D (294.3)
#21(#2) Time of Possession (33:01)
#24(#3) Defensive 1st downs allowed (43)
#25(#2) Scoring D (15.7)
#34(#3) Rushing O (224.00)

On the individual front,
Nat. Rank(conf.), Player, Category (Stat)

#1(#1), Joe Dineen, Solo Tackles (8.7)
#3(#1), Joe Dineen, Total Tackles (13.3)
#3(#1), Shak Taylor, Forced fumbles (.67)
#3(#1), Bryce Torneden, Fumbles Recovered (2)
#27(#1), Pooka Williams, Rushing yards (283)
#31(#2), Kyle Thompson, Punting (43.1)
#31(#4), Kwamie Lassiter II, Punt Returns (10.3)
#40(#1), Pooka Williams, Rushing TD's (3)

Pooka's rankings are also compared to guys who've played in 3 games so far in contrast to him only playing in 2! Also, if Pooka had the minimum % of participation in KU's games (75%) he would be leading the conference in both rushing yards per game at 141.5 and rushing yards per carry at 8.84. He'd also be #6 and #5 in those categories nationally. They won't count him in those categories until he plays against Baylor when he'll meet the 75% participation threshold.

We also have 7 different players with at least 1 INT. That's crazy!

Obviously still too early to have much confidence in all of these numbers holding up till the end of the season, but it's nice to see them now nonetheless.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033582 - 09/17/18 04:34 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
CMU QB and Rutgers QB had little experience and it was easy to pick off their passes. Baylor QB Brewer is a soph and has some experience. He will be more of a challenge.

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#2033583 - 09/17/18 04:56 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
First real challenge coming up. If we keep H Defense from screwing up late in the game, a chance to hang close. Baylor to win, but due to more experienced coaching and that QB.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

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#2033584 - 09/17/18 05:18 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
Good stuff. Competition is getting tougher. More importantly let's see how KU does without a bunch of turnovers. They are great, but even with a good defense they just do not come at this rate. Things have a tendency to average out. That said if they average out over 10 years, KU is probably due to generate a lot more turnovers this year!

It has been fun so far. Let's see where things go from here.

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#2033588 - 09/17/18 10:10 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
CMU QB and Rutgers QB had little experience and it was easy to pick off their passes. Baylor QB Brewer is a soph and has some experience. He will be more of a challenge.
Yep, mostly correct, though CMU QB is a RS Soph. with 16 games experience under his belt.

CMU QB, Poljan, is currently rated the #116 QB in terms of QB rating, with 4 INTs(all against KU) to 1 TD.

Rutgers QB, Sitkowski, is currently rated the #118 QB with 7 INTs(3 against KU) and 1 TD.

Baylor QB, Brewer, is currently rated the #54 QB with 1 INT and 3 TDs.

Bender for comparison is currently rated the #91 QB with 0 INTs and 3 TDs.

Main difference between Bender and Brewer(in terms of QB rating) is the fact that Brewer has thrown it a ton more than Bender and so has a lot more passing yards(641yds vs. 390yds). Both are throwing right at about a 60% completion rate with Brewer throwing right at 60% and Bender throwing at 60.3%. As you can see both have the same number of TD's while Bender has no INTs and Brewer has 1.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033589 - 09/17/18 10:15 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: moose1]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
Good stuff. Competition is getting tougher. More importantly let's see how KU does without a bunch of turnovers. They are great, but even with a good defense they just do not come at this rate. Things have a tendency to average out. That said if they average out over 10 years, KU is probably due to generate a lot more turnovers this year!

It has been fun so far. Let's see where things go from here.
I agree, can't rely on getting 6 TO's a game.

For comparison when talking about averaging out, KU already has 4 more TO's in 3 games than we had in all of last year in 12 games. We may not get a TO in every game, but it does look like this years team has a knack for getting them as some teams always seem to do in some years.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033635 - 09/19/18 01:56 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
But let’s not double Beaty’s salary just yet.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

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#2033643 - 09/19/18 04:29 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
CMU QB and Rutgers QB had little experience and it was easy to pick off their passes. Baylor QB Brewer is a soph and has some experience. He will be more of a challenge.
Yep, mostly correct, though CMU QB is a RS Soph. with 16 games experience under his belt.


Poljan threw 21 passes in 2017 for a total of 78 yards which is the equivalent of playing 1 game at QB. If you break his stats down by game then he only threw the ball 1 or 2 times in most games where he played. The official CMU site does not list Poljan as a RS Soph either. It lists him as a true Soph. I stand by my description of Poljan as a QB with little experience.


Edited by pizzanbeer (09/19/18 04:32 PM)

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#2033644 - 09/19/18 04:56 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
CMU QB and Rutgers QB had little experience and it was easy to pick off their passes. Baylor QB Brewer is a soph and has some experience. He will be more of a challenge.
Yep, mostly correct, though CMU QB is a RS Soph. with 16 games experience under his belt.


Poljan threw 21 passes in 2017 for a total of 78 yards which is the equivalent of playing 1 game at QB. If you break his stats down by game then he only threw the ball 1 or 2 times in most games where he played. The official CMU site does not list Poljan as a RS Soph either. It lists him as a true Soph. I stand by my description of Poljan as a QB with little experience.
Great kman, you are now back on the unicorn claiming we beat a #1 ranked QB from Alabama. Get real.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

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#2033645 - 09/19/18 05:01 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Mostly correct means not really relevant
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

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#2033646 - 09/19/18 05:35 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
CMU QB and Rutgers QB had little experience and it was easy to pick off their passes. Baylor QB Brewer is a soph and has some experience. He will be more of a challenge.
Yep, mostly correct, though CMU QB is a RS Soph. with 16 games experience under his belt.


Poljan threw 21 passes in 2017 for a total of 78 yards which is the equivalent of playing 1 game at QB. If you break his stats down by game then he only threw the ball 1 or 2 times in most games where he played. The official CMU site does not list Poljan as a RS Soph either. It lists him as a true Soph. I stand by my description of Poljan as a QB with little experience.
Poljan graduated from HS in 2016 and NCAA says he played in 2 games in 2016. Maybe he got a medical RS year in 2016? Either way, he's had a RS year and thus is a RS Sophomore unless something really funky went on. He mostly ran the ball last year rather than pass, so they mostly used him in specific situations, but he did play in all 13 of their games.

My point though wasn't that Poljan is a QB with a lot of experience, but rather that Brewer doesn't really have a lot more experience than Poljan does. Yes, Brewer has thrown it a lot more, but he's still a true Sophomore who's only played in 11 games total for his entire college career so far.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033647 - 09/19/18 06:55 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
CMU QB and Rutgers QB had little experience and it was easy to pick off their passes. Baylor QB Brewer is a soph and has some experience. He will be more of a challenge.
Yep, mostly correct, though CMU QB is a RS Soph. with 16 games experience under his belt.


Poljan threw 21 passes in 2017 for a total of 78 yards which is the equivalent of playing 1 game at QB. If you break his stats down by game then he only threw the ball 1 or 2 times in most games where he played. The official CMU site does not list Poljan as a RS Soph either. It lists him as a true Soph. I stand by my description of Poljan as a QB with little experience.
Poljan graduated from HS in 2016 and NCAA says he played in 2 games in 2016. Maybe he got a medical RS year in 2016? Either way, he's had a RS year and thus is a RS Sophomore unless something really funky went on. He mostly ran the ball last year rather than pass, so they mostly used him in specific situations, but he did play in all 13 of their games.

My point though wasn't that Poljan is a QB with a lot of experience, but rather that Brewer doesn't really have a lot more experience than Poljan does. Yes, Brewer has thrown it a lot more, but he's still a true Sophomore who's only played in 11 games total for his entire college career so far.


Brewer threw 204 passes last season compared to Poljan throwing 21 passes. Do you see how Brewer throwing 10 times more passes than Poljan last season means Brewer has much more experience at QB than Poljan? Maybe you and I have a different definition of experience at QB. I am defining experience at QB as throwing lots of passes in college games.


Edited by pizzanbeer (09/19/18 06:59 PM)

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#2033651 - 09/19/18 10:22 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
I define experienced more as games played, rather than just pure number of passes thrown. I'm not discounting that pure number of passes helps build experience either. I just think games played is a more important factor and builds more experience at actually playing QB and all that entails besides just passing.

A QB could have played in 5 games and threw it 50 times a game and had virtually the same number of pass attempts as Brewer had last year and another QB could have played in 20 games(over 2 years of course) and only threw it about 10 times a game and had virtually the same number of pass attempts. To me the QB who played in 20 games is more experienced than the one who played in 5 games even though they had the same number of pass attempts. I think games played is more important because they're facing more teams and hence more different situations and D's than they'd face against fewer teams and hopefully learning more because of that.

Bottom line though in regards to Baylor, is that Brewer is a more talented QB(significantly more) than any of the 3 QB's we've faced so far and that alone will be more of a test for our D regardless, but he's not some well seasoned upperclassman either. He's still a true Sophomore. I've watched him in 2 games this year so far and he still makes mistakes you see younger QB's make.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033653 - 09/19/18 11:15 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
We will have to agree to disagree then because Poljan was hardly even playing much at QB during those games. If you look at passing and rushing attempts in 2017 then Poljan had 40 for the season while Brewer had 269.


Edited by pizzanbeer (09/19/18 11:25 PM)

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#2033654 - 09/19/18 11:40 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Just curious where you're getting your stats from, cause NCAA claims Poljan had 48 combined passes and rushes last year.

Also, according to the NCAA this year Poljan has a combined 102 passes and rushes compared to Brewer's 92 combined total just for comparison sake.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033655 - 09/19/18 11:59 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Just curious where you're getting your stats from, cause NCAA claims Poljan had 48 combined passes and rushes last year.

Also, according to the NCAA this year Poljan has a combined 102 passes and rushes compared to Brewer's 92 combined total just for comparison sake.


ESPN shows the break down per game for the 2017 season. In 2017 Poljan also had 8 P/R attempts in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl and added to his 40 P/R attempts for the regular season that equals 48.

Poljan is 10 P/R attempts ahead for 2018. Last weekend against N. Illinois Poljan had 17 P/R attempts while Brewer had 34 P/R attempts against Duke. If that trend continues then Brewer will pass Poljan on Saturday.


Edited by pizzanbeer (09/20/18 12:07 AM)

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#2033657 - 09/20/18 12:22 AM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
OK, thanks.

Yeah, I'm betting they rolled back Poljan's P/R attempts after his rough start this year. They'll probably try and ease Poljan back up in his P/R attempts during the season depending on how well he's adjusting after his rough start to the season.

I don't think Baylor is gonna slow down Brewer at all during the season. I won't be surprised if his P/R attempts for this year end up surpassing what they were for last year by a good amount.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033781 - 09/25/18 12:02 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Despite the complete crap game against Baylor by our O, KU is still currently ranked the #34 D in the nation and #2 D in the Big 12.

Also ranked the #27 scoring D in the nation and #2 scoring D in the Big 12.

TCU is #1 in the Big 12 in both categories.

Our D is playing well still, but our O is still one of the worst in all of D-1. O is ranked #102(out of 129) in total O right now BTW.

KU still leads the nation in turnovers lost (1 so far) and turnover margin (+13 still). We're #2 in the nation in TO margin (+3.00 per game).

So, at least our O isn't a TO machine this year like it was last year.

On the individual front, Dineen leads the nation in solo tackles per game at 9.3 and is #5 in the nation in tackles per game at 13.3.

Pooka leads the Big 12 and is ranked #6 nationally in rush yards per game at 125.7 yards per game. He's also #7 in the nation and #2 in the Big 12 in yards per carry at 8.02. Hill for Okie St. is #1 in the Big 12 at 8.43.

We'll be facing the most prolific passer we've faced all season this Saturday in Cornelius. He throws it a lot more than any QB we've faced but his completion % isn't much different than Brewer's was. The 1 thing he does do that Brewer didn't and doesn't so far, is he throws some INTs. He's thrown 4 INTs to his 8 TD passes. He's currently ranked the #44 QB in the nation and Bender sits at #92.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033783 - 09/25/18 12:42 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
Overall the defense is not bad. What did you think about them dropping 8 and not putting any pressure on the QB? My personal feeling is if you give the QB enough time they will find an open receiver. KU did play better in the second half but I also thought BU played more conservatively in the second half.

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#2033785 - 09/25/18 12:53 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Lots of reasons Gill,Weis and Beaty have failed but the single biggest reason is their failure to recruit and develop a real quality QB. It is no coincidence that KU’s most successful years in the last 20 years are when they had Todd Reesing


Edited by track (09/25/18 12:55 PM)

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#2033787 - 09/25/18 01:09 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: moose1]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
Overall the defense is not bad. What did you think about them dropping 8 and not putting any pressure on the QB? My personal feeling is if you give the QB enough time they will find an open receiver. KU did play better in the second half but I also thought BU played more conservatively in the second half.
Yeah, I think it was a deliberate strategy that Bowen has installed this year. It worked great against Rutgers and CMU, but not as much against Baylor. It may have limited some of their passing game, but as you said we gave their QB too much time and he's too good not to end up finding someone open.

There are too many good QB's in this conference for this strategy to work if you don't have anyone who can eventually get to the opposing QB in your front 3 IMO. If you're gonna drop 8 and only rush 3, those 3 are going to have to get to the QB in a reasonable amount of time otherwise a decent QB will pick you apart. Either that, or you have to have 1 of those 8 guys also acting as a spy on the QB and tell him if the QB still has the ball after 4 or 5 seconds, you go get him. That would mean that spy can't just go run into the OL and get swallowed up, but he better have the speed and elusiveness to get relatively straight through to the QB to force that QB to throw, run or eat it. i.e. force a decision.

WVU, OU, OSU, Tech, Baylor, and maybe even ISU have QB's who are too good to give them that much time to pick you apart. I get why Bowen is trying this strategy though, as we got good pressure on QBs in games over the past couple of years, but the QBs in this conference tended to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less which is too quick for the pressure to have much effect and we got burnt. This strategy likely takes away most of those quick passes, but as you noted so far it gave Brewer way too much time to find an open WR. We have to be getting pressure on the QB within 5-6 seconds or less if this strategy is going to work. Against Baylor we mostly got no pressure at all on Brewer.

It may work well against KSU(#64 QB), Texas(#65 QB), and TCU(#81 QB). Against OSU and ISU it may slow them down a bit, but without any real pressure ever materializing it'll probably end up failing like it did against Baylor.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033788 - 09/25/18 01:28 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: track]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: track
Lots of reasons Gill,Weis and Beaty have failed but the single biggest reason is their failure to recruit and develop a real quality QB. It is no coincidence that KU’s most successful years in the last 20 years are when they had Todd Reesing
Weis got rid of the best QB we've had since Reesing when he told Webb to take a hike. Our OL sucked way too bad to protect either the 2nd best or 3rd best QB we've had since Reesing in Crist and Cummings who was the other QB vying for the 2nd or 3rd best QB we've had since Reesing IMHO had the injury bug and infamously was taken out for the season in our spring game.

You're right nobody has brought in a quality QB and developed them since Reesing. We have had a few decent QB's who weren't in most cases prototypical P5 guys (except Crist), but who were capable of leading our team and giving them the best chance to succeed. Our OL was too bad over most of that time for a more prototypical P5 QB to have succeeded either. That's why guys like Webb and Cummings were our better options and a guy like Crist looked a lot worse than he really was(not saying he was great, but he was better than he looked at KU). Similar probably can be said about Willis. He wasn't great, but probably better than he looked while here at KU.

This staff went after just about every possible HS and JUCO QB they could in the off season after the flakiness happened with Tune but they wiffed on all of them except Kendrick. This team is desperate for a good QB or even an average QB. Our OL is better, but still not good enough for us to have success with a QB who isn't mobile and/or can't make good quick decisions under pressure. That's why I think Stanley or Kendrick are our best options as they can both not only scramble better but they can also throw on the run better than Bender.


Edited by Kman_blue (09/25/18 01:32 PM)
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033789 - 09/25/18 01:55 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
That goes to the second biggest failure of the last three head coaches. The failure to recruit and develop a decent offensive line. Snyder gets the same two and three star players we get but he always seems to have a decent enough offensive line.

I continually hear on this board that Beaty is a terrible game manager. I think his real failure is in living up to the hype of him being a good recruiter. I just don’t see it in the talent he has brought to KU. Except for Pooka, he has brought in zero game changers in four years.

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#2033791 - 09/25/18 02:59 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
Magicman Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/13
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: moose1
Overall the defense is not bad. What did you think about them dropping 8 and not putting any pressure on the QB? My personal feeling is if you give the QB enough time they will find an open receiver. KU did play better in the second half but I also thought BU played more conservatively in the second half.
Yeah, I think it was a deliberate strategy that Bowen has installed this year. It worked great against Rutgers and CMU, but not as much against Baylor. It may have limited some of their passing game, but as you said we gave their QB too much time and he's too good not to end up finding someone open.

There are too many good QB's in this conference for this strategy to work if you don't have anyone who can eventually get to the opposing QB in your front 3 IMO. If you're gonna drop 8 and only rush 3, those 3 are going to have to get to the QB in a reasonable amount of time otherwise a decent QB will pick you apart. Either that, or you have to have 1 of those 8 guys also acting as a spy on the QB and tell him if the QB still has the ball after 4 or 5 seconds, you go get him. That would mean that spy can't just go run into the OL and get swallowed up, but he better have the speed and elusiveness to get relatively straight through to the QB to force that QB to throw, run or eat it. i.e. force a decision.

WVU, OU, OSU, Tech, Baylor, and maybe even ISU have QB's who are too good to give them that much time to pick you apart. I get why Bowen is trying this strategy though, as we got good pressure on QBs in games over the past couple of years, but the QBs in this conference tended to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less which is too quick for the pressure to have much effect and we got burnt. This strategy likely takes away most of those quick passes, but as you noted so far it gave Brewer way too much time to find an open WR. We have to be getting pressure on the QB within 5-6 seconds or less if this strategy is going to work. Against Baylor we mostly got no pressure at all on Brewer.

It may work well against KSU(#64 QB), Texas(#65 QB), and TCU(#81 QB). Against OSU and ISU it may slow them down a bit, but without any real pressure ever materializing it'll probably end up failing like it did against Baylor.


I don't care much for the three man rush, but I will say that Baylor had the most blatant holding that I've ever seen! I've coached football for over 35 years, and I've always thought that hands outside the shoulder pads, with both hands full of jersey was called holding. I very seldom say much about the officials, but that was very obvious. They held almost every play, especially the right tackle. He held big time on their first touchdown pass! I'm not saying that it cost us the game, but having over a hundred yards in holding penalties and many plays brought back, sure wouldn't have helped them any!

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#2033792 - 09/25/18 03:22 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Magicman]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
The good news is that the Oklahoma State QB Cornelius does not have as much experience as Brewer. He is a senior but he has barely played at all in his 3 previous seasons.

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#2033794 - 09/25/18 03:32 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: track]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: track
I continually hear on this board that Beaty is a terrible game manager. I think his real failure is in living up to the hype of him being a good recruiter. I just don’t see it in the talent he has brought to KU. Except for Pooka, he has brought in zero game changers in four years.
I say terrible game manager is probably the worst trait, but his overall recruiting is right up there as well.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

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#2033796 - 09/25/18 04:14 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
KUHawkhead Online   sick
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Mc to the Pherson
I agree with the Webb statement, but Cummings was like the second coming of Mark Williams from 1995. I had MANY KSU fans state how happy they were that we didn't start him and let him play instead of the beat up Crist and washout Heaps.

So many mistakes and beliefs that Weis had that were made. He made Herpe Derp Gill look like Knute Rockne.

RCJHKU!
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It's MISSOURI. We don't lose to them at home-Bill Self-2/25/2012

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#2033798 - 09/25/18 04:55 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Magicman]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Magicman
I don't care much for the three man rush, but I will say that Baylor had the most blatant holding that I've ever seen! I've coached football for over 35 years, and I've always thought that hands outside the shoulder pads, with both hands full of jersey was called holding. I very seldom say much about the officials, but that was very obvious. They held almost every play, especially the right tackle. He held big time on their first touchdown pass! I'm not saying that it cost us the game, but having over a hundred yards in holding penalties and many plays brought back, sure wouldn't have helped them any!
Yeah, I said as much in another post. #77 for Baylor was getting away with murder just about every single passing down. It was really bad.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033801 - 09/25/18 05:24 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: KUCO_VOC]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: track
I continually hear on this board that Beaty is a terrible game manager. I think his real failure is in living up to the hype of him being a good recruiter. I just don’t see it in the talent he has brought to KU. Except for Pooka, he has brought in zero game changers in four years.
I say terrible game manager is probably the worst trait, but his overall recruiting is right up there as well.


Look at our roster, especially the starters. Zenger hired Beaty to recruit the state of Texas. We have as many Free State kids as we do would be Bevos! I didn't think KU would ever again have Bud Moore or Gameball recruiting deficiencies, then along came DB! Geesh................Think I'll start attending Washburn games, $5, better concessions, easier parking, no "media timeouts" or replay reviews. Game starts at 1:00 is over by 4:00 and the football is pretty damn good!

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#2033802 - 09/25/18 05:41 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: track]
PbBut Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 10/30/04
Loc: 66227
Your first paragraph is right on point. I think a case could be made that KU had the three best running backs in uniform against Baylor, but no consistent blocking, so who'll ever know. The pass blocking is no better, so when you can't run OR pass...And as for Snyder development skills? Sometimes it takes three, four, or five years, can't do that with JuCos and Grad Transfers.

And the DL is in pretty much the same position. I love Dineen and Heeney, real warriors. But IMO these crazy tackle totals are the result of guys in front of them just rarely winning. I get the concept of DL occupying blockers, but sometimes you should win those and make the play. I'm waiting for the day when Dineen is helping a lineman off the pile rather than the other way around.
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98% of all Nebraska fans give the rest a bad name

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#2033803 - 09/25/18 08:55 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: PbBut]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Our linebackers... Dineen and Loneker are warriors and without them we would be giving up 100 points a game. That being said, they are not particularly fast or big. They play well off the line of scrimmage so they don’t have to deal with bigger and stronger opponents offensive lineman. They make a lot of game saving tackles after the opposing runner has already past the line of scrimmage. They are not exactly Big 12 proto type linebackers and certainly not what you see in the SEC. however we are lucky to have them though because they may not be the fastest or the biggest but they play with great passion and they are as tough as they come.

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#2033805 - 09/25/18 09:19 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: PbBut]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: PbBut
Your first paragraph is right on point. I think a case could be made that KU had the three best running backs in uniform against Baylor, but no consistent blocking, so who'll ever know. The pass blocking is no better, so when you can't run OR pass...And as for Snyder development skills? Sometimes it takes three, four, or five years, can't do that with JuCos and Grad Transfers.
I thought the OL blocked well enough in pass protection, but Bender didn't get rid of it quick enough too many times.

Where we really struggled was identifying and picking up blitzes, but again I'd put more of that blame on the QB's and WR's. I'm not sure if our QB's and WR's have yet properly recognized a blitz and broke off their route or immediately got the ball out to the release guy or to a WR running his "blitz" route.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2033995 - 10/02/18 03:26 AM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
We're now sitting at the #68 D and #57 scoring D in the country.

The good.

KU's rank(conf.),___category,___stat

#1(#1), had passes intercepted, 0 (1 of only 4 teams with 0)
#1(#1), TO margin/game, +2.40
#1(#1), TO gained, 14
#1(#1), TO lost(fewest), 2
#3(#1), defensive TD's, 3
#4(#1), passes intercepted, 8
#5(#1), fumbles recovered, 6
#24(#3), fumbles lost, 2
#24(#4), punt return D, 3.60
#24(#5), 4th down conversion(allowed), 0.333
#30(#3), net punting, 40.26

Individually:

Nat. rank(conf.),___player,___category,___stat
#1(#1), Dineen, solo tackles per game, 9.0
#3(#1), Torneden, fumbles recovered, 2
#4(#1), Pooka, yards per rush, 7.90
#7(#2), Dineen, total tackles/game, 12.60
#11(#1), Pooka, all purpose yds/game, 154.50
#12(#1), Pooka, rush yds/game, 118.50
#21(#2), Pooka, total rush yds, 474
#26(#3), Thompson, punting avg., 43.60
#35(#4), Lassiter, punt returns avg., 8.40


The bad and the ugly:

KU's rank(conf.),___category,___stat
#123(#10), passing yds/completion, 9.45
#116(#9), team sacks/game, 1
#116(#10), 3rd down conversion %, 0.324
#112(#9), sacks allowed/game, 3.20
#111(#9), team tkls for loss/game, 4.6
#109(#9), passing yds/game, 175.8
#105(#9), tkls for loss allowed/game, 7.40
#103(#8), total O yds/game, 359.8
#95(#8), total 1st downs, 88
#92(#10), rush D yds/game, 177.2
#83(#8), red zone O, 0.818


129 teams ranked in most categories.


Edited by Kman_blue (10/06/18 09:00 AM)
Edit Reason: Added per game on sacks and new rank
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2034013 - 10/02/18 09:04 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
Josh2408 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/03/15
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
We're now sitting at the #68 D and #57 scoring D in the country.

The good.

KU's rank(conf.),___category,___stat

#1(#1), had passes intercepted, 0 (1 of only 4 teams with 0)
#1(#1), TO margin/game, +2.40
#1(#1), TO gained, 14
#1(#1), TO lost(fewest), 2
#3(#1), defensive TD's, 3
#4(#1), passes intercepted, 8
#5(#1), fumbles recovered, 6
#24(#3), fumbles lost, 2
#24(#4), punt return D, 3.60
#24(#5), 4th down conversion(allowed), 0.333
#30(#3), net punting, 40.26

Individually:

Nat. rank(conf.),___player,___category,___stat
#1(#1), Dineen, solo tackles per game, 9.0
#3(#1), Torneden, fumbles recovered, 2
#4(#1), Pooka, yards per rush, 7.90
#7(#2), Dineen, total tackles/game, 12.60
#11(#1), Pooka, all purpose yds/game, 154.50
#12(#1), Pooka, rush yds/game, 118.50
#21(#2), Pooka, total rush yds, 474
#26(#3), Thompson, punting avg., 43.60
#35(#4), Lassiter, punt returns avg., 8.40


The bad and the ugly:

KU's rank(conf.),___category,___stat
#123(#10), passing yds/completion, 9.45
#118(#9), team sacks, 1
#116(#10), 3rd down conversion %, 0.324
#112(#9), sacks allowed/game, 3.20
#111(#9), team tkls for loss/game, 4.6
#109(#9), passing yds/game, 175.8
#105(#9), tkls for loss allowed/game, 7.40
#103(#8), total O yds/game, 359.8
#95(#8), total 1st downs, 88
#92(#10), rush D yds/game, 177.2
#83(#8), red zone O, 0.818


129 teams ranked in most categories.


I see those offensive rankings and im actually encouraged with the progress of our kids, before we would've been dead last so that is progress to me
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Kansas Football will rise from the ashes to burn all to flames once again

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#2034047 - 10/03/18 03:35 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Jman1]
Jman1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Originally Posted By: INation
Don't mean S#!t. KU had a top 5 recruiting class at one point last year and see how that turned out! I imagine we'll end up ranked in the 75-85 range by years end.


I think you mean more like 105 after the B9 Rib roastings, but if they continue to get those yummy apple turnovers, they might actually be in the 50s or 60s at years end


Slowly creeping down to that 105 number. After OU and UT get ahold of this team they will be about #90 I'm thinking.

The 450 yards Grier is gonna put up in the first half won't really help to strengthen the numbers, either, IMHO

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#2034078 - 10/05/18 03:16 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Jman1]
Jman1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/12/03
The bad and the ugly:

KU's rank(conf.),___category,___stat
#123(#10), passing yds/completion, 9.45
#118(#9), team sacks, 1
#116(#10), 3rd down conversion %, 0.324
#112(#9), sacks allowed/game, 3.20
#111(#9), team tkls for loss/game, 4.6
#109(#9), passing yds/game, 175.8
#105(#9), tkls for loss allowed/game, 7.40
#103(#8), total O yds/game, 359.8
#95(#8), total 1st downs, 88
#92(#10), rush D yds/game, 177.2
#83(#8), red zone O, 0.818

Wow, I think most JuCos in the country could register more than 1 against the competition we have played, but maybe I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

I mean bad is bad and all those stats are disturbingly pathetic but come on ,1? jeebus, a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

Now THAT is what we call Progress at the University of Kansas, JOSH

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#2034079 - 10/05/18 04:39 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Jman1]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: Jman1


Now THAT is what we call Progress at the University of Kansas, JOSH


Some of the current snowflake students and faculty think all is well. But KU and the City of Lawrence are both quite "Progressive". I've come to look at the word progress and any of it's variations as virtual insanity. crazy

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#2034096 - 10/06/18 08:59 AM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Jman1]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Jman1
The bad and the ugly:

KU's rank(conf.),___category,___stat
#123(#10), passing yds/completion, 9.45
#118(#9), team sacks, 1
#116(#10), 3rd down conversion %, 0.324
#112(#9), sacks allowed/game, 3.20
#111(#9), team tkls for loss/game, 4.6
#109(#9), passing yds/game, 175.8
#105(#9), tkls for loss allowed/game, 7.40
#103(#8), total O yds/game, 359.8
#95(#8), total 1st downs, 88
#92(#10), rush D yds/game, 177.2
#83(#8), red zone O, 0.818

Wow, I think most JuCos in the country could register more than 1 against the competition we have played, but maybe I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

I mean bad is bad and all those stats are disturbingly pathetic but come on ,1? jeebus, a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

Now THAT is what we call Progress at the University of Kansas, JOSH
LOL

That's my bad. It's still a bad number, but that's 1 per game on average. KU has 5 total sacks on the year. Tied with ksu for the worst in the Big 12. At least we're not as bad as Wisconsin is so far. They have 3 total sacks on the year.

We've been really bad at putting pressure on the QB this year and Bowen's new D is somewhat responsible for this. We're essentially rushing 3 and putting 8 back in coverage on obvious passing downs counting on clogging up the quick pass routes and forcing the opposing QB to make a tougher decision and more difficult throw.

That bets on your 3 pass rushers eventually getting pressure on the QB after 4 or 5 seconds or so and the opposing QB's to make more mistakes. It's going to drive down the sack numbers just by default, but it shouldn't be this bad still. It should also drive up the PBU and INT numbers, which it has. It's worked well against the bad QB's we've faced, but it's failed against the good QB's we've faced and made the average QB we've faced look a lot better than he is.

We desperately need at least 1 of our DE's to be able to beat their blocks within a few seconds to put pressure on the opposing QB and so far that just hasn't happened except for a few times. Those few times it has happened, they've lost contain and allowed the QB to run for positive yards.

Kamara looks to have the talent to be able to do this, but he's still a raw talent and is learning. I think Ogbebor could do this as kind of a LB/WDE type guy, but the coaches haven't used him in this position. A couple other guys may have the talent to do it, but so far they aren't producing on the field the way I thought they would.

While I'm at this and now that I've mentioned Ogbebor, IMO he isn't being used nearly enough. He may make mistakes, but he's got good instincts and has produced on the field both in the 2nd half of last year and the few times they've put him in this year. Lipscomb too looks to be making plays when he's in. I'd like to see more of both of those guys as I think they've got better speed and size and just make plays even if they make mistakes.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2034269 - 10/07/18 07:34 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Now sitting at #83 total D and #70 scoring D after facing what had been the #9 O and #21 scoring O in WVU (they're now #10 and #22).

We've now got 10 different players with an INT this year in only 6 games played. That's INSANE!

The good.

KU's rank(conf.),___category,___stat

#1(#1), TO margin/game, +2.17
#1(#1), TO gained, 18
#2(#1), passes intercepted, 11
#3(#1), fumbles recovered, 7
#5(#1), defensive TD's, 3
#9(#1), interceptions allowed, 2
#15(#1), TO's lost, 5
#22(#5), 4th down conversion(allowed), 0.333
#24(#5), punt return D, 3.91
#36(#2), fumbles lost, 3
#38(#3), red zone D, 0.773
#38(#4), net punting, 39.72


Individually:

Nat. rank(conf.),___player,___category,___stat
#1(#1), Dineen, solo tackles per game, 8.8
#3(#2), Dineen, total tackles/game, 12.30
#5(#1), Torneden, fumbles recovered, 2
#7(#1), Pooka, yards per rush, 7.49
#12(#1), Pooka, all purpose yds/game, 147.60
#16(#1), Pooka, rush yds/game, 107.80
#23(#2), Thompson, punting avg., 44.00
#25(#3), Pooka, total rush yds, 539
#25(#4), Hasan Defense, INT's, 2
#36(#5), Torneden, solo tackles/game, 5.30
#40(#1), Kyron Johnson, forced fumbles/game, .33


The bad and the ugly:

KU's rank(conf.),___category,___stat
#126(#10), passing yds/completion, 9.52
#114(#9), sacks allowed/game, 3.17
#111(#8), tkls for loss allowed/game, 7.50
#110(#10), 3rd down conversion %, 0.341
#110(#8), total O yds/game, 347.5
#109(#9), passing yds/game, 180.8
#97(#8), 4th down conversion %, 0.429
#93(#9), total 1st downs, 104
#92(#9), punt return yds/punt, 6.56
#91(#8), team sacks/game, 1.67 (10 on the year)
#89(#9), team tkls for loss/game, 5.5
#86(#8), rush D yds/game, 177.2
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2034275 - 10/08/18 10:10 AM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
If someone has time, a comparison of Kansas defense vs OU defense would be really interesting. Stoops just got let go for their defense.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

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#2034279 - 10/08/18 02:02 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: KUCO_VOC]
58hawk Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
If someone has time, a comparison of Kansas defense vs OU defense would be really interesting. Stoops just got let go for their defense.
I would still hire him in a heartbeat.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2034280 - 10/08/18 04:44 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: 58hawk]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
If someone has time, a comparison of Kansas defense vs OU defense would be really interesting. Stoops just got let go for their defense.
I would still hire him in a heartbeat.


Why? If Stoops can give up that many points and yards with the talent OU has, how bad do you think he might do with the talent provided by Dave Beaty?

Truth be told, Bowen and the defense is not now or has it been the problem...it is Beaty and the woeful offense and sketchy special teams play that has doomed KU for the past four seasons. Way, way, way too many three and outs...or as against WVU, we get a turnover and give it right back with inept play calling or a TO of our own.

Clint's love for KU blinded him to hitch his star to the Beaty wagon, ultimately, a poor career move.

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