Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#2033647 - 09/19/18 06:55 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
CMU QB and Rutgers QB had little experience and it was easy to pick off their passes. Baylor QB Brewer is a soph and has some experience. He will be more of a challenge.
Yep, mostly correct, though CMU QB is a RS Soph. with 16 games experience under his belt.


Poljan threw 21 passes in 2017 for a total of 78 yards which is the equivalent of playing 1 game at QB. If you break his stats down by game then he only threw the ball 1 or 2 times in most games where he played. The official CMU site does not list Poljan as a RS Soph either. It lists him as a true Soph. I stand by my description of Poljan as a QB with little experience.
Poljan graduated from HS in 2016 and NCAA says he played in 2 games in 2016. Maybe he got a medical RS year in 2016? Either way, he's had a RS year and thus is a RS Sophomore unless something really funky went on. He mostly ran the ball last year rather than pass, so they mostly used him in specific situations, but he did play in all 13 of their games.

My point though wasn't that Poljan is a QB with a lot of experience, but rather that Brewer doesn't really have a lot more experience than Poljan does. Yes, Brewer has thrown it a lot more, but he's still a true Sophomore who's only played in 11 games total for his entire college career so far.


Brewer threw 204 passes last season compared to Poljan throwing 21 passes. Do you see how Brewer throwing 10 times more passes than Poljan last season means Brewer has much more experience at QB than Poljan? Maybe you and I have a different definition of experience at QB. I am defining experience at QB as throwing lots of passes in college games.


Edited by pizzanbeer (09/19/18 06:59 PM)

Top
#2033651 - 09/19/18 10:22 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
I define experienced more as games played, rather than just pure number of passes thrown. I'm not discounting that pure number of passes helps build experience either. I just think games played is a more important factor and builds more experience at actually playing QB and all that entails besides just passing.

A QB could have played in 5 games and threw it 50 times a game and had virtually the same number of pass attempts as Brewer had last year and another QB could have played in 20 games(over 2 years of course) and only threw it about 10 times a game and had virtually the same number of pass attempts. To me the QB who played in 20 games is more experienced than the one who played in 5 games even though they had the same number of pass attempts. I think games played is more important because they're facing more teams and hence more different situations and D's than they'd face against fewer teams and hopefully learning more because of that.

Bottom line though in regards to Baylor, is that Brewer is a more talented QB(significantly more) than any of the 3 QB's we've faced so far and that alone will be more of a test for our D regardless, but he's not some well seasoned upperclassman either. He's still a true Sophomore. I've watched him in 2 games this year so far and he still makes mistakes you see younger QB's make.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

Top
#2033653 - 09/19/18 11:15 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
We will have to agree to disagree then because Poljan was hardly even playing much at QB during those games. If you look at passing and rushing attempts in 2017 then Poljan had 40 for the season while Brewer had 269.


Edited by pizzanbeer (09/19/18 11:25 PM)

Top
#2033654 - 09/19/18 11:40 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Just curious where you're getting your stats from, cause NCAA claims Poljan had 48 combined passes and rushes last year.

Also, according to the NCAA this year Poljan has a combined 102 passes and rushes compared to Brewer's 92 combined total just for comparison sake.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

Top
#2033655 - 09/19/18 11:59 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Just curious where you're getting your stats from, cause NCAA claims Poljan had 48 combined passes and rushes last year.

Also, according to the NCAA this year Poljan has a combined 102 passes and rushes compared to Brewer's 92 combined total just for comparison sake.


ESPN shows the break down per game for the 2017 season. In 2017 Poljan also had 8 P/R attempts in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl and added to his 40 P/R attempts for the regular season that equals 48.

Poljan is 10 P/R attempts ahead for 2018. Last weekend against N. Illinois Poljan had 17 P/R attempts while Brewer had 34 P/R attempts against Duke. If that trend continues then Brewer will pass Poljan on Saturday.


Edited by pizzanbeer (09/20/18 12:07 AM)

Top
#2033657 - 09/20/18 12:22 AM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
OK, thanks.

Yeah, I'm betting they rolled back Poljan's P/R attempts after his rough start this year. They'll probably try and ease Poljan back up in his P/R attempts during the season depending on how well he's adjusting after his rough start to the season.

I don't think Baylor is gonna slow down Brewer at all during the season. I won't be surprised if his P/R attempts for this year end up surpassing what they were for last year by a good amount.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

Top
#2033781 - 09/25/18 12:02 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Despite the complete crap game against Baylor by our O, KU is still currently ranked the #34 D in the nation and #2 D in the Big 12.

Also ranked the #27 scoring D in the nation and #2 scoring D in the Big 12.

TCU is #1 in the Big 12 in both categories.

Our D is playing well still, but our O is still one of the worst in all of D-1. O is ranked #102(out of 129) in total O right now BTW.

KU still leads the nation in turnovers lost (1 so far) and turnover margin (+13 still). We're #2 in the nation in TO margin (+3.00 per game).

So, at least our O isn't a TO machine this year like it was last year.

On the individual front, Dineen leads the nation in solo tackles per game at 9.3 and is #5 in the nation in tackles per game at 13.3.

Pooka leads the Big 12 and is ranked #6 nationally in rush yards per game at 125.7 yards per game. He's also #7 in the nation and #2 in the Big 12 in yards per carry at 8.02. Hill for Okie St. is #1 in the Big 12 at 8.43.

We'll be facing the most prolific passer we've faced all season this Saturday in Cornelius. He throws it a lot more than any QB we've faced but his completion % isn't much different than Brewer's was. The 1 thing he does do that Brewer didn't and doesn't so far, is he throws some INTs. He's thrown 4 INTs to his 8 TD passes. He's currently ranked the #44 QB in the nation and Bender sits at #92.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

Top
#2033783 - 09/25/18 12:42 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Josh2408]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
Overall the defense is not bad. What did you think about them dropping 8 and not putting any pressure on the QB? My personal feeling is if you give the QB enough time they will find an open receiver. KU did play better in the second half but I also thought BU played more conservatively in the second half.

Top
#2033785 - 09/25/18 12:53 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Lots of reasons Gill,Weis and Beaty have failed but the single biggest reason is their failure to recruit and develop a real quality QB. It is no coincidence that KU’s most successful years in the last 20 years are when they had Todd Reesing


Edited by track (09/25/18 12:55 PM)

Top
#2033787 - 09/25/18 01:09 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: moose1]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
Overall the defense is not bad. What did you think about them dropping 8 and not putting any pressure on the QB? My personal feeling is if you give the QB enough time they will find an open receiver. KU did play better in the second half but I also thought BU played more conservatively in the second half.
Yeah, I think it was a deliberate strategy that Bowen has installed this year. It worked great against Rutgers and CMU, but not as much against Baylor. It may have limited some of their passing game, but as you said we gave their QB too much time and he's too good not to end up finding someone open.

There are too many good QB's in this conference for this strategy to work if you don't have anyone who can eventually get to the opposing QB in your front 3 IMO. If you're gonna drop 8 and only rush 3, those 3 are going to have to get to the QB in a reasonable amount of time otherwise a decent QB will pick you apart. Either that, or you have to have 1 of those 8 guys also acting as a spy on the QB and tell him if the QB still has the ball after 4 or 5 seconds, you go get him. That would mean that spy can't just go run into the OL and get swallowed up, but he better have the speed and elusiveness to get relatively straight through to the QB to force that QB to throw, run or eat it. i.e. force a decision.

WVU, OU, OSU, Tech, Baylor, and maybe even ISU have QB's who are too good to give them that much time to pick you apart. I get why Bowen is trying this strategy though, as we got good pressure on QBs in games over the past couple of years, but the QBs in this conference tended to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less which is too quick for the pressure to have much effect and we got burnt. This strategy likely takes away most of those quick passes, but as you noted so far it gave Brewer way too much time to find an open WR. We have to be getting pressure on the QB within 5-6 seconds or less if this strategy is going to work. Against Baylor we mostly got no pressure at all on Brewer.

It may work well against KSU(#64 QB), Texas(#65 QB), and TCU(#81 QB). Against OSU and ISU it may slow them down a bit, but without any real pressure ever materializing it'll probably end up failing like it did against Baylor.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

Top
#2033788 - 09/25/18 01:28 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: track]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: track
Lots of reasons Gill,Weis and Beaty have failed but the single biggest reason is their failure to recruit and develop a real quality QB. It is no coincidence that KU’s most successful years in the last 20 years are when they had Todd Reesing
Weis got rid of the best QB we've had since Reesing when he told Webb to take a hike. Our OL sucked way too bad to protect either the 2nd best or 3rd best QB we've had since Reesing in Crist and Cummings who was the other QB vying for the 2nd or 3rd best QB we've had since Reesing IMHO had the injury bug and infamously was taken out for the season in our spring game.

You're right nobody has brought in a quality QB and developed them since Reesing. We have had a few decent QB's who weren't in most cases prototypical P5 guys (except Crist), but who were capable of leading our team and giving them the best chance to succeed. Our OL was too bad over most of that time for a more prototypical P5 QB to have succeeded either. That's why guys like Webb and Cummings were our better options and a guy like Crist looked a lot worse than he really was(not saying he was great, but he was better than he looked at KU). Similar probably can be said about Willis. He wasn't great, but probably better than he looked while here at KU.

This staff went after just about every possible HS and JUCO QB they could in the off season after the flakiness happened with Tune but they wiffed on all of them except Kendrick. This team is desperate for a good QB or even an average QB. Our OL is better, but still not good enough for us to have success with a QB who isn't mobile and/or can't make good quick decisions under pressure. That's why I think Stanley or Kendrick are our best options as they can both not only scramble better but they can also throw on the run better than Bender.


Edited by Kman_blue (09/25/18 01:32 PM)
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

Top
#2033789 - 09/25/18 01:55 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
That goes to the second biggest failure of the last three head coaches. The failure to recruit and develop a decent offensive line. Snyder gets the same two and three star players we get but he always seems to have a decent enough offensive line.

I continually hear on this board that Beaty is a terrible game manager. I think his real failure is in living up to the hype of him being a good recruiter. I just don’t see it in the talent he has brought to KU. Except for Pooka, he has brought in zero game changers in four years.

Top
#2033791 - 09/25/18 02:59 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Kman_blue]
Magicman Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/13
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: moose1
Overall the defense is not bad. What did you think about them dropping 8 and not putting any pressure on the QB? My personal feeling is if you give the QB enough time they will find an open receiver. KU did play better in the second half but I also thought BU played more conservatively in the second half.
Yeah, I think it was a deliberate strategy that Bowen has installed this year. It worked great against Rutgers and CMU, but not as much against Baylor. It may have limited some of their passing game, but as you said we gave their QB too much time and he's too good not to end up finding someone open.

There are too many good QB's in this conference for this strategy to work if you don't have anyone who can eventually get to the opposing QB in your front 3 IMO. If you're gonna drop 8 and only rush 3, those 3 are going to have to get to the QB in a reasonable amount of time otherwise a decent QB will pick you apart. Either that, or you have to have 1 of those 8 guys also acting as a spy on the QB and tell him if the QB still has the ball after 4 or 5 seconds, you go get him. That would mean that spy can't just go run into the OL and get swallowed up, but he better have the speed and elusiveness to get relatively straight through to the QB to force that QB to throw, run or eat it. i.e. force a decision.

WVU, OU, OSU, Tech, Baylor, and maybe even ISU have QB's who are too good to give them that much time to pick you apart. I get why Bowen is trying this strategy though, as we got good pressure on QBs in games over the past couple of years, but the QBs in this conference tended to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less which is too quick for the pressure to have much effect and we got burnt. This strategy likely takes away most of those quick passes, but as you noted so far it gave Brewer way too much time to find an open WR. We have to be getting pressure on the QB within 5-6 seconds or less if this strategy is going to work. Against Baylor we mostly got no pressure at all on Brewer.

It may work well against KSU(#64 QB), Texas(#65 QB), and TCU(#81 QB). Against OSU and ISU it may slow them down a bit, but without any real pressure ever materializing it'll probably end up failing like it did against Baylor.


I don't care much for the three man rush, but I will say that Baylor had the most blatant holding that I've ever seen! I've coached football for over 35 years, and I've always thought that hands outside the shoulder pads, with both hands full of jersey was called holding. I very seldom say much about the officials, but that was very obvious. They held almost every play, especially the right tackle. He held big time on their first touchdown pass! I'm not saying that it cost us the game, but having over a hundred yards in holding penalties and many plays brought back, sure wouldn't have helped them any!

Top
#2033792 - 09/25/18 03:22 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: Magicman]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
The good news is that the Oklahoma State QB Cornelius does not have as much experience as Brewer. He is a senior but he has barely played at all in his 3 previous seasons.

Top
#2033794 - 09/25/18 03:32 PM Re: kansas defense ranked #38 in the Nation [Re: track]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: track
I continually hear on this board that Beaty is a terrible game manager. I think his real failure is in living up to the hype of him being a good recruiter. I just don’t see it in the talent he has brought to KU. Except for Pooka, he has brought in zero game changers in four years.
I say terrible game manager is probably the worst trait, but his overall recruiting is right up there as well.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Preview