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#2031406 - 06/12/18 04:01 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
Maximus Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
_________________________
Your enemies will know your quality where ever you meet them.

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#2031416 - 06/12/18 09:43 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
So Timmy you really see the Big XII as a viable option? I think most pundits out there think it only a matter of time until it folds. I am kind of ambivalent to it. If it stays great, but if it goes that is fine too. It just is not the same conference it was.

I know why you are so pissed about the possibility of the Big XII folding. It's because if it did KSU would probably not land in a major conference. I don't blame you I would be mad too. Don't worry it will workout for KSU in the Mountain West. It would probably be a good fit.

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#2031428 - 06/13/18 11:03 AM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: moose1]
tmcats Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/08/02
Loc: reservation lake, mn
moose, i believe k-state, isu, oSu, TxT, the two christians, and probably wvu would all be at risk. by exception/definition, the others would be fine if the league somehow fell apart.

but there's no evidence that's going to happen. usa today had a piece about the travails of the pac12 today. so, why the focus here on this league - fan nonsense?

it's irrational to me that a case can be made for the big12 desolving. far more likely that something happens to the pac12, either the arizona schools leave for this league or there's an alliance between the conferences.


THE BUDGET DOCUMENTS Washington State released last week paint a sobering financial picture for the Pac-12 conference as a whole. The Pac-12 is projected to fall far behind other Power 5 conferences over the next five years in revenue sharing, USA Today reports.

According to the documents provided by WSU and confirmed by school officials, the Pac-12 won’t reach $38 million in payout per school until 2023, reports the newspaper. The Big Ten – this year -- is expected to provide $51 million to its schools. Even the Atlantic Coast Conference, after previously ranking last in school payouts among the Power 5, is projected to surpass $40 million per school soon, the newspaper notes.

my old bud, kirk, is worried
_________________________
Stop waving our wheat!

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#2031430 - 06/13/18 12:42 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
As of right now, I do agree that the BIG 12 dies with the current GOR. Our leadership has given me no reason to believe otherwise.

But I am not happy about it. I love the BIG 8/12. It is all I know. It is all I care about. KANSAS a member of any other conference is a huge downer for me.

Maybe things change. I hope so. But I am not going to count on it.

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#2031436 - 06/13/18 01:39 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: MICHHAWK]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
As of right now, I do agree that the BIG 12 dies with the current GOR. Our leadership has given me no reason to believe otherwise.

But I am not happy about it. I love the BIG 8/12. It is all I know. It is all I care about. KANSAS a member of any other conference is a huge downer for me.

Maybe things change. I hope so. But I am not going to count on it.


I tend to agree with you, and if we could go back to the Big XII the way it was. That was ideal. Now that half the teams from the north are gone I don't have that same feeling for the conference. Especially losing Missouri. I hate them, but it was so much fun playing them.

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#2031438 - 06/13/18 02:09 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: moose1]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: moose1
I tend to agree with you, and if we could go back to the Big XII the way it was. That was ideal.


I don't need to go back. I am content with the conference the way it is right now. The conference the way it is right now is preferable(for me anyways) to any other power 5.

But again, I am not confident our leadership can/will keep this together.

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#2031446 - 06/14/18 07:27 AM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
I haven't looked up the specific numbers in a while, but the last numbers I saw had the Big 10 distributing roughly $37 million per school this past year(2017-2018) and a projection of possibly $50 million per school this up coming year(2018-2019) with their new contract in affect.

SEC doesn't usually announce their numbers for the latest year until September because I believe their fiscal year is different than the rest of the conferences and doesn't end until Sep. 1 or so. The last numbers I recall seeing for them was about $40 million per school from the 2016-2017 year and a projection of about $41-$43 million per school this past year.

The PAC-12 latest distribution was $30.5 million per school and the ACC's latest distribution was $26.7 million per school. While the Big 12's latest distribution was $36.5 million so quite a bit ahead of both the PAC-12 and ACC still.

The last projections for next year (2018-2019 which runs from about July 1 through June 31 for most) I heard were the Big 12 at about $40 million per school, the PAC-12 at about $32.5 million per school, the ACC at about $34 million per school (assuming a $5 million per school boost for their network), the SEC at about $44 million per school, and the Big 10 at the $50 million per school mark.

Again, as I recall the ACC's network deal isn't supposed to be anywhere near the financial boost the Big 10 or SEC networks are, but rather in between the abysmal PAC-12 network and those other 2. The most common number I heard being thrown around was about $7 million per school per year when it's fully up and running. They will get a bump up for the 2018 fiscal year as it launches.

Assuming all of those projections are true here's how the last 2 years and the upcoming year look from a distribution standpoint:

2016

(in millions)
1. SEC $40.4
2. Big 10 $34.8
3. Big 12 $28.9
4. PAC-12 $28.7
5. ACC $23.8



2017

1. SEC $41 (announced*)
2. Big 10 $37.1
3. Big 12 $36.5**
4. PAC-12 $30.5
5. ACC $26.7



2018

(current projections)
1. Big 10 - $50-$51 million per school
2. SEC - $43-$44 million per school
3. Big 12 - $40 million per school
4. ACC - $34.3 million per school (includes +$5 mil bump for network***)
5. PAC-12 - $32.7 million per school

*SEC announced this projected payout but won't announce the actual until September.

** Some claim the Big 12's actual average distribution per school was $34.5 million but the official numbers seem to indicate the $36.5 million per school is accurate.

**Some ACC ADs are claiming a total projected bump of $10 to $15 million per year from their new conference network by 2019, but last I read many industry (TV) analysts projected a still impressive but more modest $7 to $8 million per year bump, so I gave them a $5 million additional bump for 2018 for it's first year in operation.

As you can easily see things fluctuate depending on who got the newest contract, but generally the overall ranking in conference per school payout has remained steady. The ACC looks to be leap frogging the PAC-12 in the near future and come a lot closer to the Big 12 than it has been, but still behind the Big 12 though.

Also, the Big 12's payout is the only conference per school payout that does NOT include tier 3 rights, so you have to take that into consideration when looking at these numbers. A rough estimate done by a journalist lately (can't recall the exact paper I read it in, but think it was either USAToday or Tulsa World) that KU gets an extra $5.5 million on top of our distribution because of that, OU gets an extra $6 million and Texas gets an extra $10 million.

That would put KU at $35.4 million in 2016 right between the SEC and Big 10, $42 million in 2017 just ahead of the SEC and ahead of all power 5 conferences, and at $45.5 million this coming year which is projected to put us right between the Big 10 and SEC again.

In short, Texas, OU, and KU are making out very well and just about as good as or better than virtually every other P5 school in the country and as money, not the quality of a football team's season or reputation or history, but purely money has been driving conference realignment I don't see the money driving the Big 12 to implode. Rather, it looks like the money(virtually all TV network money) has a vested interest in the Big 12 surviving. That's not my personal opinion of what I think should happen, but rather just my observation of the network TV money driving this thing.

Yeah, there's probably going to be a ton of speculation and complaining from school AD's, fanbases, and journalists over the next few years. A lot of people are frustrated, disappointed and flat out angry about how this conference has evolved or devolved over the past 6 years or so and a lot of that will bubble back up to the surface as the Big 12's current TV contracts come up for renewal but I don't think the TV network people want it to dissolve and will pay up enough to keep it going as I think they believe they'll lose money(from losing the formerly P5 schools with decent sized fanbases) and end up paying more(because of renegotiation or escalator clauses in current P5 deals with other conferences by new schools joining) if they let it implode.

Personally, I'd love to get Colorado and Nebraska back and maybe even aTm, but don't give 2 sh|its about the mootards. Hate em back in the day and still hate em now, but don't care if they're in our conference anymore and don't really miss playing them either. I'd also like it if Baylor was sent packing and Iowa or Arkansas was added in their place, or if Baylor and even TCU were dropped in favor of the 2 Arizona schools. Even just adding the 2 Arizona schools wouldn't be too bad IMHO. This last scenario may be the only one with a shot in hell of ever happening though. Those are my personal preferences as I don't like the idea of joining the SEC or even the Big 10 really. Especially if we'd join without a group of at least 3 of our current conference foes also joining.

I just really prefer being in a conference located primarily in the central part of the country and not in the SE or upper Mid-west and NE parts.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2031450 - 06/14/18 11:02 AM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: Kman_blue]
tmcats Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/08/02
Loc: reservation lake, mn
nice recap, kman. why did a.d. lew perkins not go after a big 10 slot if it was such a great deal for ku like so many jayhawk fans claim? any recollection? he came out in favor of this league staying together at the time it was in so much turmoil as nebraska and others bolted.
_________________________
Stop waving our wheat!

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#2031451 - 06/14/18 11:37 AM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
I'm a fan. Not a beancounter. So I approach this $#!t as a fan. As a fan I want to stay in a healthy BIG 12. I don't care if the big10 or sec pays more.

I'm a fan.

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#2031459 - 06/14/18 01:35 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: MICHHAWK]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
I'm a fan. Not a beancounter. So I approach this $#!t as a fan. As a fan I want to stay in a healthy BIG 12. I don't care if the big10 or sec pays more.

I'm a fan.
A fan!? Well, nobody gives a hot damn about you then! LOL

That's been how some of these schools have treated big chunks of their "fans" at least in all of this recent realignment crap.

It's been a lot more like this!

_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2031462 - 06/14/18 04:32 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Big12/8 will survive in conference form. It IS all about the money. Former AD underperformed but I have a feeling about the next hire cranking up the football revenue machine. Feelin it
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style, that is)!

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#2031466 - 06/14/18 05:36 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
KUHawkhead Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Mc to the Pherson
Personally, I KNOW the Big XII in it's current forms truly sucks balls as far as rivalries and excitement go, but we have shown it is truly only about one thing and one thing only, MONEY. Losing NU, CU, and Meth were death blows to this conference. Not in actual survival, but in excitement. The only true rivalry is Tejas and OU, and seeing how Tejas can't figure out that there is no reason they shouldn't be winning 10 games consistently and been in a position for a legit national title run every 3-5 years, keeps the conference from being anything other than a revenue pounder.

It may survive, it may not, once the contracts are up for negotiation. Very, very few people are paying for cable, that is a fact, and it will make the next round of contracts smaller than they have been in the past.

I would honestly welcome a jump to the B1G, as I feel it would truly be a good fit for the Jayhawks. It's. traditional research conference that doesn't go over the top for coaches and staff pay, which makes some think of it as boring, but if we're not going to improve the turd product that the Big XII rolls out every season, I can't really say I would miss this conference that much.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject. As we always say, the proof is in the pudding.

RCJHKU!
_________________________
It's MISSOURI. We don't lose to them at home-Bill Self-2/25/2012

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#2031467 - 06/14/18 06:01 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
Really the biggest driver of whether the conference survives or not depends on what Texas does. Do they get greedy, and bolt for another conference? Do they piss all the other schools off with their demands? If Texas wants the Big XII to survive it will, if not it won't

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#2031470 - 06/14/18 07:55 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: moose1]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
I agree Texas could blow this conference up if it wanted to, but what's the benefit to Texas to purposely do that? I say purposely, because they just about did that accidentally already. They give up their extra $10 million a year for the Longhorn Network and likely take a significant loss in total revenue by bolting.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2031471 - 06/14/18 11:17 PM Re: big 12 revenue up again should help ku [Re: tmcats]
KUHawkhead Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Mc to the Pherson
Bingo KMan. Tejas will NOT find another conference that will give everything in return for nothing the way the Big XII did.

RCJHKU!
_________________________
It's MISSOURI. We don't lose to them at home-Bill Self-2/25/2012

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