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#2024308 - 12/01/17 08:16 PM Problems w/ defense?
John_Brown Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Newton Kansas
What was the main cause of its failure? The defensive line in my opinion was actually decent and perhaps our best performing unit on either side of the ball. Early in the season, the defensive secondary bit on everything leaving gaps all over the field. Late in the season, injuries resulted in throwing natural safeties at CB playing Big 12 WRs. Bad combo.

However, our LBer play all year was atrocious and was the main cause of the defense's collapse. I understand Dineen made a lot of tackles, but dam we were gashed left and right. They were too slow to cover, too slow blitz. Noone seemed to shed blockers. Any sort of cutback resulted in a big play. Noone stayed home in zone reads. They couldn't take away a quick slant if their life depended on it. They hid nothing. I remember watching that LBer for Tech take away a pop to Johnson that we actually executed and thinking I'd give my left arm for a decent LBer who could make that play. Anyone else feel this way?

Honestly, one BenHeeney or TheNickReid would've made a world of difference In my opinion.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou


Edited by John_Brown (12/01/17 08:17 PM)

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#2024310 - 12/01/17 08:22 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: John_Brown]
AlOerter Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/02/13
D-line had the most talent for sure, but I don't think their sack numbers or hurries would rank very high in the conference. I don't have the actual numbers but am just going by the games I watched (which was all of them).

Overall team speed seemed to be lacking to me.
_________________________
" I used to have power. Now old age is creeping up on me." Chief Dan George

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#2024311 - 12/01/17 08:32 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: AlOerter]
John_Brown Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Newton Kansas
I think the lack of speed at the LBers was very evident. They seemed capable tacklers and played tough but were never in position. When you run a 4-2-5 as we often did, those guys needed to be johnny-on-the-spot to counter the space but did not have the tools to make it happen.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou


Edited by John_Brown (12/01/17 08:32 PM)

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#2024313 - 12/01/17 08:39 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: John_Brown]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Yep, they both had trouble covering guys on pass plays and over pursued the ball way too much allowing those cutbacks. They aren't fast enough to overcome the over pursuit either.

The 1 bright spot I saw though, was Ogbebor. He has more speed and I thought he showed signs of having the talents needed to be a good LB'er for us.

Kyron Johnson has a ton of talent too, but he's still really raw out there and makes a lot of mistakes.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2024319 - 12/01/17 11:23 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Beaty has 1 last season left to show improvement. I expect him to load up on JC players on defense and OL.

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#2024322 - 12/02/17 11:36 AM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
Jman1 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 12/12/03
Defensive speed is marginal at best I get it. Daniel Wise is prolly as fast as some of our safeties. The MAJOR MAJOR issue with the defense is the powder puff, Cracker Jack, girls league physicality we play with. I think I can count on 1 finger the number of what I would deem a physical hit. Ya Know that cavity loosening hit that you hear outside the 90% empty stadium. It's just NOT there. There is NO ATTITUDE, NO SWAGGER. Our defense likes to tackle(or just miss) guys so as not to hurt their feelings and bring them gingerly and softly to the turf, and say they were sorry for the "rough" play when they go to get up. We used to have a saying in the day to "make em pay for coming my way." This team seems to enjoy the company, comradarie and tea parties on the field.

Politically correct defense usually ends up bent over and with their Dic knocked in the dirt. Hence, Look at the numbers.

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#2024331 - 12/02/17 02:04 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: John_Brown]
moose1 Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
If they were just assignment sound that would help A LOT. Also I think they need to bring more pressure. Give a QB enough time and he will pick you apart. I would have liked to see more blitzing, bringing it from different areas. Don't let that QB get comfortable.

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#2024334 - 12/02/17 02:25 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: moose1]
Jman1 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: moose1
If they were just assignment sound that would help A LOT. Also I think they need to bring more pressure. Give a QB enough time and he will pick you apart. I would have liked to see more blitzing, bringing it from different areas. Don't let that QB get comfortable.


Now hold on, You're askin for quite a bit outta the defense there fella. This team has proven time and again they are amongst the worst EVER in college football, and that does include the KState leather helmet days

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#2024339 - 12/02/17 04:36 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: moose1]
John_Brown Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Newton Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
If they were just assignment sound that would help A LOT. Also I think they need to bring more pressure. Give a QB enough time and he will pick you apart. I would have liked to see more blitzing, bringing it from different areas. Don't let that QB get comfortable.


If you notice, Bowen's defenses will blitz often when he has experienced CB. In 2014/16 he blitzed a lot late in the season. Next fall, we should return both CBs and retain the DL. I expect a return to some pressure. I actually think we could make some dramatic improvements over on that side of the ball next fall. Maybe even enough to win the MAC portion of our schedule. But you cannot ask guys to cover our 3 and out offense indefinitely as we've been doing for the last 3 years. KMan ought to give us the number of plays this defense played last fall relative to the competition. I'll bet it's obscene compared to what Lincoln Riley asks from OU's defense.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou


Edited by John_Brown (12/02/17 04:37 PM)

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#2024394 - 12/04/17 11:25 AM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: John_Brown]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: John_Brown
I think the lack of speed at the LBers was very evident. They seemed capable tacklers and played tough but were never in position. When you run a 4-2-5 as we often did, those guys needed to be johnny-on-the-spot to counter the space but did not have the tools to make it happen.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou


Odd, I thought Beaty was recruiting nothing but "Fast DUDES"! laugh

Outside of this years front three, we lack true Div I level talent, especially at LB. The corners are not very good either and have not developed at all. "H. Defense", still making the same stupid mistakes in game 12 as he did in game 1, but that's true from top to bottom with the entire team. Now normally, I would say that issue is an indication of lack of development and preparation,. But in the Zenger/beaty era, I now know that is simply part of the "process".

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#2024395 - 12/04/17 12:00 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: John_Brown]
vmlb Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 11/25/06
two years ago the leading tackler was our safety. This year it was a linebacker. That alone shows improvement to me.

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#2024396 - 12/04/17 12:08 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: vmlb]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: vmlb
two years ago the leading tackler was our safety. This year it was a linebacker. That alone shows improvement to me.


If you polled 100 Div One, Two and Three teams, 95% would have either the FS or a LB leading their team in tackles. It is almost ALWAYS the FS or a LB. It doesn't necessarily show progress, it is a simple fact of football, and much of it depends on if you get run against or passed against.

If "That alone", shows you improvement....you need to learn a bit more about football.

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#2024404 - 12/04/17 03:12 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: vmlb]
Jman1 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: vmlb
two years ago the leading tackler was our safety. This year it was a linebacker. That alone shows improvement to me.


Coach Beaty, is that you snoopin around?

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#2024415 - 12/04/17 09:13 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: beenahawk]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: beenahawk
Outside of this years front three, we lack true Div I level talent, especially at LB. The corners are not very good either and have not developed at all.
Joe Dineen was named 2nd team All-Big 12 by opposing coaches. He's got his weaknesses but it's silly to claim he's not a true Div I level talent.

Same goes for Torneden at the DB spot. He wasn't named honorable mention All-Big 12 because he's not a true Div I level talent. He also developed tremendously from game 1 to game 12 this year. He looked lost and completely out of his league in the first few games, but he looked like an All-Big 12 DB in the later half of the season. Just goes to show what inexperience can do in making guys look really bad.

I also disagree with your overall assessment of our talent. When I look at our starters I largely see legit P-5 level talent across the board. Even on our 2 deep I see mostly legit Div I level talent too. The talent is there, or at least enough talent is there to have played better than we did. We lack depth and experience the most(in terms of our 2 deep) IMO. The lack of results and production aren't due to a lack of talent in our starters or even much of our 2 deep, but I'd say it's rather a result of inexperience, youth, and poor coaching.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2024416 - 12/04/17 09:38 PM Re: Problems w/ defense? [Re: beenahawk]
vmlb Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 11/25/06
Originally Posted By: beenahawk
Originally Posted By: vmlb
two years ago the leading tackler was our safety. This year it was a linebacker. That alone shows improvement to me.


If you polled 100 Div One, Two and Three teams, 95% would have either the FS or a LB leading their team in tackles. It is almost ALWAYS the FS or a LB. It doesn't necessarily show progress, it is a simple fact of football, and much of it depends on if you get run against or passed against.

If "That alone", shows you improvement....you need to learn a bit more about football.


Of course I don't know as much as you. I just played and coached the game. The only reason I read these posts is to learn from the all knowing, KUCO, beenahawk, and Jman

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