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#2023723 - 11/20/17 04:29 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: casey]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
You forgot poor blocking by the o line
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Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2023725 - 11/20/17 04:35 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: Jman1]
namohcan_99 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/23/05
Loc: Wichita, KS
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.

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#2023727 - 11/20/17 04:41 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jman1 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
You forgot poor blocking by the o line


Sorry, KUCO, I forgot that one, but that would have to be categorized as "completely nonexistent blocking by the OLine". Saying "poor" gives the OLine way too much street Cred


Edited by Jman1 (11/20/17 04:43 PM)

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#2023730 - 11/20/17 05:05 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: namohcan_99]
track Online   content
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.

Good post. I am unsure how important zenger is to the huge fund raising effort. Is he instrumental in raising money or would a new AD be able to handle the job. These are questions only key donors can answer. Maybe they love zenger or maybe the don’t. I don’t know

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#2023731 - 11/20/17 06:34 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: track]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.

Good post. I am unsure how important zenger is to the huge fund raising effort. Is he instrumental in raising money or would a new AD be able to handle the job. These are questions only key donors can answer. Maybe they love zenger or maybe the don’t. I don’t know
You wanted to change the topic to get away from the job Beaty fails at. Good job!!
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2023741 - 11/20/17 09:39 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
So kman you feel it’s no big deal to embarrass all of the university this way?
I don't think it was as embarrassing to the school as you apparently do.

In my opinion it's being overblown in large part because it happened with a #3 ranked OU and involved their Heisman Trophy leading candidate QB. Otherwise this probably gets some local play and some press in the opposing team's town for a couple days and then almost nobody remembers it in a couple weeks.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2023743 - 11/20/17 09:56 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: namohcan_99]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
If anything, what I took from that game was Oklahoma was overrated and KU has the talent but not the leadership.
Interesting take away.

I disagree a bit on the defeated and complacent part. I thought the D just looked absolutely gassed in the 4th quarter but I still saw guys fighting hard out there.

We did hold Mayfield to his worst half in 2 years in the first half as well as holding OU 131 yards under their average and almost 4 points under their average. If we had normal type depth on our D, I bet our numbers would have been even better as guys would still be relatively fresh in the 4th quarter. Our D more or less held OU to a similar output that the best D in the conference (TCU) did. Our O sucked a lot more than TCU's did against OU is the main difference between the 2 games.

The O moved the ball and did some things well in the first half, but couldn't finish drives and sputtered out in the 2nd half for the most part. The OL still has a lot of issues and injuries which have killed us all year long. They may have become mentally defeated at some point in the 2nd half, but I don't think the D ever did.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2023747 - 11/20/17 10:58 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: Kman_blue]
namohcan_99 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/23/05
Loc: Wichita, KS
I will amend my statement to say that some players are still fighting and giving it their all, but at some point early in the 4th, KU defense was gassed and frustrated. Frustration leads to a lack of effort by some. Honestly I think the defense was pretty good overall, but we aren't anyway consistent. I think we lack proper motivation. I don't know what Beaty's goals are for the team but the OU game confused me. If we can give that kind of effort in every game, why don't we? Some players do. And back when some of them were calling out the players who don't, I think bolsters my point that there is a lack of a team mission.

I don't think Beaty is our guy. I still wish we had gotten Bohl before he went to Wyoming. Seems like KU is afraid of appearing impatient and not giving coaches a fair shake. I think we have done that with Beaty. I'm not sure who we go after now. I've lost confidence in the AD a while back ago. Nothing against Zenger, but I don't think he's going to right the ship for football. If something happened with Self, would you want him putting in the Charlie Weis of the Basketball world?

I don't know the Chancellor and I think if Zenger isn't cut loose after this season or soon, then I won't have a very favorable opinion of him either.

Beaty has really struggled getting talent from Texas and that was one of the bigger parts of hiring him was knowing how well connected he was down in the Texas high school programs. Beaty is no Mangino and he's no Mason. I also don't like that we aren't making inroads on the Kansas recruiting battle. I think that's a little more difficult. And what happened with Oklahoma recruits? Mangino had a decent plan of success in those areas and he started getting into others, including California and Florida. Even Weis made strides in Hawaii. I guess maybe that's why we are more in Mississippi, too? I don't know. I have not followed our recruiting closely for a while because the recruits have been mostly underwhelming. I feel bad that we cut Bender loose. I like him and I like Stanley, but we should have picked one and stayed with him.

I'm worried that Beaty will start cutting staff and/or staff will start jumping ship soon after this season is over.

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#2023748 - 11/20/17 11:09 PM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: Kman_blue]
iowaboy Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 11/03/02
Loc: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
In all fairness you don't know what actions have been or will be taken by coach Beaty behind closed doors about this.

That may no be enough for you(if it remains a behind the scenes thing), but I'd be very surprised if nothing has been or will be done.


Maybe coach Beaty could pull an old balls and suspend them for 1 week AFTER the season ended and during their holiday break? LOL

Old balls is a classy guy in the eyes of most, right?


The poor sportsmanship by not shaking hands happened in public therefore Beatty should make the consequences available to the public, not behind closed doors. KU missed a great opportunity as if they would od shaken hands they would of been Oklahoma's equal......................at least for 5 minutes anyway. IB
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Decide what's right, then do it!

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#2023757 - 11/21/17 08:59 AM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: iowaboy]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: iowaboy
The poor sportsmanship by not shaking hands happened in public therefore Beatty should make the consequences available to the public, not behind closed doors. KU missed a great opportunity as if they would od shaken hands they would of been Oklahoma's equal......................at least for 5 minutes anyway. IB
Poor sportsmanship is when the home team overwaters the field before a game with Weis' squad to hopefully cause a win due to lack of long spikes being available to the visitors squad. Field froze over in the "Armpit of America" City, Iowa...state won fair and square.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2023780 - 11/22/17 02:59 AM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: namohcan_99]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I don't know the Chancellor and I think if Zenger isn't cut loose after this season or soon, then I won't have a very favorable opinion of him either.
As I don't think this is happening, I guess your opinion of Girod isn't going to be a favorable one.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Beaty has really struggled getting talent from Texas and that was one of the bigger parts of hiring him was knowing how well connected he was down in the Texas high school programs.
By my count, there's 29 recruited scholarship players from the state of Texas on the team that coach Beaty recruited to KU. That list includes Armstrong, Wise, Adeniji, Sims, Fairs, Harrell, and Dom Williams among them. I don't think we've struggled too much recruiting Texas to this point.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I also don't like that we aren't making inroads on the Kansas recruiting battle.
We've got 23 guys on the roster from the state of Kansas and 12 were recruited scholarship guys (I include Ribordy here). Seems like a lot of the very top talent within the state though is going out of state still. (i.e. not to KU nor ksu)

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
And what happened with Oklahoma recruits?
We've got 4 recruited scholarship guys from the state of Oklahoma that coach Beaty has recruited and another couple walkons from Oklahoma. Better than Gill or Weis did and about the same as Mangino did IMO.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Mangino had a decent plan of success in those areas and he started getting into others, including California and Florida. Even Weis made strides in Hawaii. I guess maybe that's why we are more in Mississippi, too?
Louisiana obviously has been a new area they've focused on for 2 years in a row now and now they're hitting the Mississippi JUCO's too. Though we do have 1 preferred walkon (who had other full D-1 offers) from Mississippi on the roster now in Boatner. I think he's got a good shot at becoming a regular on the 2 deep before he's finished here also.

It looked like they were taking a stab at expanding our recruiting into Georgia and Florida last year, but that seems to have quieted down some this class. Not sure why.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I'm worried that Beaty will start cutting staff and/or staff will start jumping ship soon after this season is over.
I'm not sure if coach Beaty has plans to cut staff, but it might be telling if a rash of staff leave on their own.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2023874 - 11/25/17 02:09 AM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: Kman_blue]
namohcan_99 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/23/05
Loc: Wichita, KS
I don't know Girod but I have neither a favorable or unfavorable opinion of him. But if he believes KU has a real chances to show true improvement by next season, that we are building something long-term, I probably will think we will continue to make the same mistakes and deserve what we get.

I disagree about Texas. If we were comparing to Mangino what Beaty has done this far with Texas recruiting, are we on the same pace?

What are the top 10 Kansas high school players we got from last year? Year before that? Year before that? How did that stack up to KSU's? Is KSU's KS recruits today larger than ours? Why is that?

I will admit Oklahoma was a bit hard for Mangino but Mangino did better than 4. And Weis never really targeted Oklahoma, and God only knows about Gill.

Yeah, that's fine with LA and MS recruits, though I don't know if jucos is the way to go because it seemed with every coach, even Mangino had a 50/50 with them either working out well, or completely flaming out.

It sounds like we are in agreement about staff. I'd look to this offseason because there is a lot of talk about next year being Beaty's last as you have said and I believe to be true. Losing coaches in the offseason would just add to an already serious problem.

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#2023878 - 11/25/17 07:27 AM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: casey]
KUHawkhead Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Mc to the Pherson
Bring back Beaty, and you're only prolonging the inevitable. There will be less than 15k every game if this clueless moron is back.
RCJHKU!
_________________________
It's MISSOURI. We don't lose to them at home-Bill Self-2/25/2012

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#2024050 - 11/28/17 02:00 AM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: namohcan_99]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I disagree about Texas. If we were comparing to Mangino what Beaty has done this far with Texas recruiting, are we on the same pace?
We had 21 players from Texas on Mangino's last team at KU in 2009. 17 recruited scholarship guys and 4 walkons.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
What are the top 10 Kansas high school players we got from last year? Year before that? Year before that? How did that stack up to KSU's? Is KSU's KS recruits today larger than ours? Why is that?
ksu currently has 9 recruited scholarship players from the state of Kansas on their team by my count, but they do have quite a few more walkons from the state of Kansas than KU does. A little more than twice as many. So, a couple less recruited scholarship guys, but a ton more walkons.

Most years, the state of Kansas has between 6 to 10(only about 5 this year) potential P-5 level guys(right out of HS) so I'd say the top 5 instate prospects each year are the top of the top and over the past 4 classes (including this upcoming one) a little more than 1/2 have gone out of state. The others have been split about equally between KU and ksu.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I will admit Oklahoma was a bit hard for Mangino but Mangino did better than 4. And Weis never really targeted Oklahoma, and God only knows about Gill.
Can't think of any off hand under Gill or Weis, but I believe there was 1 or 2 over those years. There were 6 recruited scholarship players from the state of Oklahoma on Magino's last team at KU and 4 more walkons, so he did have a few more than Beaty has.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2024133 - 11/29/17 12:00 AM Re: Beaty's qualified apology [Re: Kman_blue]
namohcan_99 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/23/05
Loc: Wichita, KS
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I disagree about Texas. If we were comparing to Mangino what Beaty has done this far with Texas recruiting, are we on the same pace?
We had 21 players from Texas on Mangino's last team at KU in 2009. 17 recruited scholarship guys and 4 walkons.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
What are the top 10 Kansas high school players we got from last year? Year before that? Year before that? How did that stack up to KSU's? Is KSU's KS recruits today larger than ours? Why is that?
ksu currently has 9 recruited scholarship players from the state of Kansas on their team by my count, but they do have quite a few more walkons from the state of Kansas than KU does. A little more than twice as many. So, a couple less recruited scholarship guys, but a ton more walkons.

Most years, the state of Kansas has between 6 to 10(only about 5 this year) potential P-5 level guys(right out of HS) so I'd say the top 5 instate prospects each year are the top of the top and over the past 4 classes (including this upcoming one) a little more than 1/2 have gone out of state. The others have been split about equally between KU and ksu.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I will admit Oklahoma was a bit hard for Mangino but Mangino did better than 4. And Weis never really targeted Oklahoma, and God only knows about Gill.
Can't think of any off hand under Gill or Weis, but I believe there was 1 or 2 over those years. There were 6 recruited scholarship players from the state of Oklahoma on Magino's last team at KU and 4 more walkons, so he did have a few more than Beaty has.


Just to be clear, Mangino was also making good in-roads with some good recruiting locations such as Florida and up in Ohio and Illinois. I don't see that with Beaty. Also, Mangino wasn't recruiting many jucos by the time he left. And if I remember, that was something Zenger and Beaty were in agreement on that we need more high school recruits. Now we are going back to recruiting jucos, something that Weis did that never fixed any of our gaping holes. They just put some band-aids on some very poor positions due to a lack of depth, and other various reasons.

And the number of Kansas players on K-State over KU is large. I don't care if they are walk-ons because several of those walk-ons really developed into key positions. Geary is a good example of that. We don't have a good walk-on process, which is something I complained about early. We pushed out kids from Kansas who wanted to be on this team to rebuild. We cut kids of KU legends like Seuer. I want kids who want to be at Kansas.

I may have misstated something, because I thought I was comparing Mangino's recruiting of Oklahoma versus Beaty's. Mangino did a great job with Oklahoma.

I think Beaty is in over his head. I think the point of this thread which was about his statement against the captains is a good explanation of his coaching style. If the media or whomever didn't make a big thing of it, which I don't think it was that big of a thing, this would have made no difference. I think it sent a strong message to the players form the captains that we can compete. Apparently not on offense, but at least for a while on defense we did. If it worked, we'd be singing the praises of the captains and Beaty would be taking credit saying we are getting there with another big win.

There is no consistency other than KU remains strongly inconsistent. I don't see a point in giving Beaty a fourth year to repeat and get 1 or 2 wins, or worse, none. I don't see any power 5 program allowing this. I think Beaty got a fair shot. I think that experiment is over. Maybe he's better as a WR coach or an offensive coordinator. I don't care. He's not met his goals.

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