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#2023518 - 11/16/17 03:48 PM Lincoln Riley and OU
John_Brown Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Newton Kansas
To quote our Chancellor, chicken or egg? Riley appears to be on his way to the top. Now, nothing against the guy, but obviously it is the institution that creates one 35 to 40 y/o College Football HoF coach after another? Bud to Barry to Bob to Lincoln. The only thing that seems to slow them down is the NCAA in the 90s.

At the same time, our institution is obviously a football basket case. Honestly, KU/UNL/OU are mirror images of each other. Similar high plains states, same location relative to state's largest city, same Med Center/Main campus set-up. . What are the institutional issues that keeps us in football purgatory?

Personally, I don't believe it's money. KU alumni/endowment probably sports the most intrinsic wealth of the 3. I also don't believe it's the passion. KU MBB shows it is capable of a passionate fan base. Is it competition w/ the Chiefs? I always am reminded that of the 3 our stadium is the same size it was when the Chiefs arrived in 1962 while UNL/OU's are literally twice as big. Local HS competion? Ksuck's turnaround has debunked that myth.

Personally, I believe it is an incompetent good-old-boy culture that needs to be destroyed the sooner the better. This also seems to be a leading theory around here. I believe that had a lot to do w/ clipping both Mangino/Mase. You kill talent like Mangino/Mase twice in a generation and you suffer the consequences. Meanwhile, OU lets a free spirit like Barry rampage for 2 decades and only reluctantly let him go. It's why they're about to enjoy another 20 years of watching a 30 y/o HoFer while we suffer.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou


Edited by John_Brown (11/16/17 03:56 PM)

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#2023519 - 11/16/17 04:16 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: John_Brown]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: John_Brown
To quote our Chancellor, chicken or egg? Riley appears to be on his way to the top. Now, nothing against the guy, but obviously it is the institution that creates one 35 to 40 y/o College Football HoF coach after another? Bud to Barry to Bob to Lincoln. The only thing that seems to slow them down is the NCAA in the 90s.

At the same time, our institution is obviously a football basket case. Honestly, KU/UNL/OU are mirror images of each other. Similar high plains states, same location relative to state's largest city, same Med Center/Main campus set-up. . What are the institutional issues that keeps us in football purgatory?

Personally, I don't believe it's money. KU alumni/endowment probably sports the most intrinsic wealth of the 3. I also don't believe it's the passion. KU MBB shows it is capable of a passionate fan base. Is it competition w/ the Chiefs? I always am reminded that of the 3 our stadium is the same size it was when the Chiefs arrived in 1962 while UNL/OU's are literally twice as big. Local HS competion? Ksuck's turnaround has debunked that myth.

Personally, I believe it is an incompetent good-old-boy culture that needs to be destroyed the sooner the better. This also seems to be a leading theory around here. I believe that had a lot to do w/ clipping both Mangino/Mase. You kill talent like Mangino/Mase twice in a generation and you suffer the consequences. Meanwhile, OU lets a free spirit like Barry rampage for 2 decades and only reluctantly let him go. It's why they're about to enjoy another 20 years of watching a 30 y/o HoFer while we suffer.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

Mason went from 10 wins 2 loses to 4 wins 7 losses his last year. I wonder if he was as committed that last year as he had been, ....same for Mangino...he went from 7 wins and 1 loss in the conference to 4 and 4 to 1 win and 7 losses. I doubt either would have had an issue if they had a winning record the last year. Losing gives people with an axe to grind a reason to fire people. If mason and mangino would have kept winning they wouldn't have been let go. Amazing how far we have fallen where 3 or 4 wins this year would have been considered a success.

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#2023520 - 11/16/17 04:30 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: John_Brown]
Leawood Offline
Abolitionist

Registered: 01/15/03
Loc: Now, The Plaza
It wasn't losing or coaching apathy that caused Mason or Mangino to leave.

It was controversy.

In Mason's case, it was a divorce/custody battle that caused him to renege on the Georgia job. He lost the team at that point. Dr. Bob should not have let him come back but stay a KU in some capacity while he straightened his life out. I went to the NU game in Lincoln that year. KU lost something like 45-7. Late in the game, Mason just looked up into the night sky as if saying to himself, "How did I get in this situation." Hint: It wasn't a female dentist. It was a female K.C. lawyer. He bolted to Minnesota when the chance arose.

In Mangino's case, it was a trumped up controversy and injuries. Folks forget Reesing was injured either before or during the fateful Colorado game. Regardless, the whole player controversy thing can take the motivation out of anyone. Yet, KU was one first down - a 3rd and 4 - from icing the MU game and becoming bowl eligible. Even with the win, he was not going to coach the bowl game. After the game, I saw the seniors circle in huddle for a short hug. I think they were glad the season was over.

KU football does not deserve nice things for the reasons JB says. And because of a fan base that only cares about basketball.

Doesn't matter. I've had it with Zenger. KU has never had this long of a run of putrid football. I'm too old waiting for that twerp to do anything positive with football.

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#2023521 - 11/16/17 04:36 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: John_Brown]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
It is simple KU hired three horrible coaches that have totally destroyed the program. Now there is such apathy no one wants to do anything with KU football because it is a lepper. I think Girod is willing to close his eyes and cross his fingers so he doesn't have to deal with it.

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#2023523 - 11/16/17 04:55 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: moose1]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
It is simple KU hired three horrible coaches that have totally destroyed the program. Now there is such apathy no one wants to do anything with KU football because it is a lepper. I think Girod is willing to close his eyes and cross his fingers so he doesn't have to deal with it.

Disagree, they hired one incompetent coach who didn’t know how to run a program, one coach who basically gave the death penalty to the program and one coach who has tried to rebuild from the death penalty but clearly has short comings in being able to coach a young team.
Beaty gets next year to show improvement and then he is gone if he doesn’t but the program will be in far better shape than it was after Weis left. If Beaty has another year like this one zenger will go first and Beaty will be close behind.. that’s my take anyway. The next coach ought to be able to get the program Up to speed much faster than ever could have been done after Weis.
I believe the new chancellor understands the critical importance of football in today’s environment. Bernadette focused on the academic buildings and Girod will focus on building the football program and facilities... again that’s my take


Edited by track (11/16/17 05:00 PM)

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#2023524 - 11/16/17 05:15 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: John_Brown]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
I believe Weis has a plan but his health failed. Then we had a Zenger hire of a Boy Scout type instead of a HC with some cred. So now we need to rid ourselves of the cockroaches left to scurry at night. Zenger, Beaty & Bowen. Meachum is an interesting OC. But he probably doesn’t get a real chance to survive here.

I still think Girod is going to right the ship. Berny threw him a curve to hit when she do se doed out of here. She could care less about sports programs during her reign as queen bee.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2023525 - 11/16/17 05:50 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: KUCO_VOC]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
"I believe Weis has a plan but his health failed.

ROFLMAO.....he had a plan alright. Rob the bank and get the hell out of town.

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#2023526 - 11/16/17 05:55 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: John_Brown]
Kirk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 09/25/05
Loc: Austin
My grandad liked to blame the proximity of the Chiefs. I heard him saying it in the 70s; he probably also said it in the 60s.

In addition, Lawrence really is "snob hill" in some ways. The nose is in the air. Old school loudmouth angry rust belt types can prove abrasive to the sensibilities of the higher sort. I never saw anything like this in Norman or Lincoln.

And of course there's always basketball season. It appears early-to-mid football season just when, once again, we realize we suck. Basketball suddenly relieves the narcissistic injury that is KU football. We can fix the program later because those perennial top 5 ratings soothe the ego.

Dumb luck is probably the truest answer. We didn't hire Bob Devaney. Who knew?




Edited by Kirk (11/16/17 05:58 PM)
Edit Reason: my spelling is perfectly horrid

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#2023527 - 11/16/17 06:38 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: Kirk]
John_Brown Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Newton Kansas
Originally Posted By: Kirk


Dumb luck is probably the truest answer. We didn't hire Bob Devaney. Who knew?




Does Bob Devaney survive 14 years in Lawrence?

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

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#2023528 - 11/16/17 06:41 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: Leawood]
John_Brown Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Newton Kansas
Originally Posted By: Leawood


Doesn't matter. I've had it with Zenger. KU has never had this long of a run of putrid football. I'm too old waiting for that twerp to do anything positive with football.


Zenger does need to go. Where would we be had we kept the Crushed Dove?

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

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#2023530 - 11/16/17 07:07 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: track]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: track
"I believe Weis has a plan but his health failed.

ROFLMAO.....he had a plan alright. Rob the bank and get the hell out of town.
Why be such a ahole?

You may be the most disliked poster on this board
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2023540 - 11/16/17 11:05 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
I believe Weis has a plan but his health failed.
His plan was to run KU football like a pro franchise and that's a plan guaranteed to fail at the college level as has been proven time and time again by many coaches over the years.

When his O sucked and things weren't working out like he thought they would after his 1st season he began to throw in the towel. The foundation was already crumbling by the beginning of his 2nd season and when he was given some ultimatums after the end of that season he started really giving up. When they forced an outside OC on him he totally gave up and become completely demoralized. From that point on he was just biding his time until being fired.

IMO He would have still failed at KU even if his big JUCO gamble had paid off by most of them actually joining the team and then playing for the team and then actually producing as well as if he didn't throw in the towel or have an OC forced on him. The pro model just doesn't work on the college level. It ultimately didn't work at ND and wouldn't have worked here either.

The only difference would have been our roster and program as a whole wouldn't have been at a below rock bottom level by the time he'd have failed if all those JUCO's worked out and he made it to the end of his contract. His health wasn't really an issue as to why he failed here.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2023545 - 11/17/17 05:36 AM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: John_Brown]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
I recall a certain coach asleep at the wheel on a scooter. His physical health from his hit at ND sideline and obesity were certainly factors in his failure IMO. Never said he had a great or even good plan BTW. Yes kman cites other factors above for his failure.

IMO he had a plan that was called KSU 2.0!!!
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2023601 - 11/18/17 02:02 PM Re: Lincoln Riley and OU [Re: John_Brown]
KUHawkhead Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Mc to the Pherson
Chaz Frontbutt has been made a multimillionaire for one reason and one reason only.....he held a clipboard for Tom Brady. Like Josh McDaniels, Todd Haly, and numerous other people, being in the mere presence of TB makes you a "genius". I will go out on a limb (not too big of one) and state that we would've been much better off (and 15 million dollars-half a practice facility for those of you that can't cipher well-wealthier) had we just stuck with Turder Gill for the final 3 of his ridiculous contract, than gone with the brash, cocky (yet stupid-sound like anyone in charge of any country you know?) douchecanoe who absolutely sunk our program that was already taking on water in a very rapid fashion.

RCJHKU!


Edited by KUHawkhead (11/18/17 02:03 PM)
_________________________
It's MISSOURI. We don't lose to them at home-Bill Self-2/25/2012

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