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#2021568 - 10/10/17 07:18 PM Unpopular message
Yardbirdbob Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/12
I remember so clearly that most on this board agreed Coach Beaty should get 5 years to right this ship. The progress has admittedly been slow, but HCDB has moved this program forward by better recruiting and class balance, if nothing else.

Now, driven by the echo chamber of this message board and the Phog's Gridiron Talk, the media has jumped on board the "to hell with them all, let's start over again" mantra.

Not saying it is necessarily wrong, but there are many risks to this action. To name a few:

- a dwindling pool of coaches willing to put up with 2.5 years to complete turn around. and, In a year with many blue blood programs looking for new coaches.
- another new coach, probably going to demand a guaranteed contract,
- another expensive buy out of current coaches,
- installation of a new system, probably going to want to recruit "his type" of players,
- risk losing current best players (Armstrong, Wise, Lee, etc) ,
- risk losing another recruiting class,
- risk stadium improvements as BMDs don't want to put up $$$$ with the future of the program, AD, etc, all up in the air.

As I've said several times before on this board, KU football fans are cursed. Cursed because a basketball team is much easier to build than a FB team. Cursed because KSU captured lightening in a bottle with Snyder. Cursed because the vast majority of casual KU FB fans have no idea of the complexity of developing a good FB program. Cursed because KU was, is, and always will be a BB first university - and not by a little bit, but BB first by a country mile.

It appears as though the "out with the bastards movement" is gaining momentum, again. Time will tell if it will deliver the intended results, or if history will repeat.

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#2021569 - 10/10/17 07:44 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
I doubt that coach Beaty is going to get fired before the end of the 2018 season if he's going to get fired at all.

As I noted in another thread, there's a few big money donors who fully support him, or at least they did up until last week. Don't think they've jumped ship yet either, but that's just my guess right now as I haven't heard anything since then.

So, unless some or most of those BMD's put pressure on Girod(cause Zenger would most likely be gone too) and/or put up some big money on the table to get rid of Beaty and hire someone new, I don't think it's going to happen despite what the fan consensus may be.

So, in short I don't think we're going to have to worry about the risks you listed. At least not because coach Beaty got fired. Continued dismal on field performance may prompt a couple of them all by itself though.

I do agree that going through coaching changes every 2 1/2 years is terrible for program stability as well as roster stability and quality. It tears apart the foundation which all good programs are built on and that alone takes a few of years to repair depending on how bad it is.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2021570 - 10/10/17 07:46 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
PbBut Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 10/30/04
Loc: 66227
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said. The problem is we have an Athletic Director who is compensated very well to know all the things you described, and he appears to have failed as badly as anyone ever has.

We have been marketed hope for the future while appearing to take steps back. We were sold all spring on upgrades from the likes of Baldwin and Charlot and better days ahead. The Texas recruiting guru, which was supposed to be Beaty's strength, I believe has one Texas commit so far in the class of 2018. The game results are not in question after the first ten minutes.

I, too, felt Beaty or anyone deserved "5 years to right the ship". Implicit in that was that progress would be made. We're 50% of the way to five years, you can use our own observations to determine the percentage of progress.

The AD implemented a plan to hold ticket prices static, to reward you for your "loyalty". In my world, loyalty is a two way street and Zenger isn't living up to his end of the bargain. Zenger has got to go.
_________________________
Zenger? Never!

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#2021571 - 10/10/17 07:49 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Kman_blue]
Yardbirdbob Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/12
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
I doubt that coach Beaty is going to get fired before the end of the 2018 season if he's going to get fired at all.

As I noted in another thread, there's a few big money donors who fully support him, or at least they did up until last week. Don't think they've jumped ship yet either, but that's just my guess right now as I haven't heard anything since then.

So, unless some or most of those BMD's put pressure on Girod(cause Zenger would most likely be gone too) and/or put up some big money on the table to get rid of Beaty and hire someone new, I don't think it's going to happen despite what the fan consensus may be.

So, in short I don't think we're going to have to worry about the risks you listed. At least not because coach Beaty got fired. Continued dismal on field performance may prompt a couple of them all by itself though.

I do agree that going through coaching changes every 2 1/2 years is terrible for program stability as well as roster stability and quality. It tears apart the foundation which all good programs are built on and that alone takes a few of years to repair depending on how bad it is.


I'm guessing that removing Zenger will almost be as bad, or worse than getting rid of HCDB. It will make Beaty a dead man walking, and everyone will know it. If you are going to get rid of one, should probably get rid of both. BTW, I'm not yet advocating for either.

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#2021572 - 10/10/17 07:55 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
jhawkblue Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 10/28/13
I agree that if the current A.D. made another hire the constant changes every 2.5 years would be an issue but with a new A.D. the coaching clock resets,

and just as not a single A.D. (not named Zenger) thought the Beaty was ready for a HC job no new A.D. is going to see this current staffs level of coaching and believe that this is the staff to build a program at KU but unfortunately I think we are stuck with Zenger, Beaty, and Bowen for one more year so we can look forward to 4-44 to cement our position as the worst FBS program in history


Edited by jhawkblue (10/10/17 07:56 PM)

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#2021573 - 10/10/17 07:55 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
That's what I was implying. If the big money donors put the pressure on or pony up a bunch of cash to make changes happen that'll mean Zenger is gone and then Beaty. At least that's how I think it would go down.

Again, don't think it's gonna happen, if it does happen, until after the 2018 season.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2021574 - 10/10/17 08:13 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Lawrence Beer Co.
I, personally, have not suggested firing Beaty.

Time to try a new DC, though.

Time to get a fresh set of eyes at AD, too.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2021575 - 10/10/17 08:16 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Kman_blue]
Yardbirdbob Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/12
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
That's what I was implying. If the big money donors put the pressure on or pony up a bunch of cash to make changes happen that'll mean Zenger is gone and then Beaty. At least that's how I think it would go down.

Again, don't think it's gonna happen, if it does happen, until after the 2018 season.


Not sure why you are so confident Beaty makes it to next year. I know you read the same boards and comments sections I do. There is blood in the water and Beaty is hemorrhaging. I'd bet even money he does not make it to 2018. This has all the feel of the waning months of Gill, then Weis. The natives want scalp(s), and will settle for nothing less.

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#2021576 - 10/10/17 08:23 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Lawrence Beer Co.
Everyone I've heard from suggests Beaty gets at least non-con next year.

No one had heard much about Zenger's safety. No one seems to know how safe Bowen is either.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2021577 - 10/10/17 08:38 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: dgless21]
Yardbirdbob Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/12
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Everyone I've heard from suggests Beaty gets at least non-con next year.

No one had heard much about Zenger's safety. No one seems to know how safe Bowen is either.


Dump Zenger and you might as well dump Beaty. Do you really think that recruits will not figure out that HCDB is a dead man walking the day Zenger is out? If they can't figure it out, the coaches continuing to recruit them will clue them in. . .

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#2021578 - 10/10/17 08:48 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: dgless21]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
I think Beaty has the ship headed in the right direction on offense. Add some larger OL players and a power RB and Beaty should be able to convert on 4th and 1. Most of our players on offense return next season and they are improving.

The problem Beaty is running into is that he made progress recruiting on offense but did not make the same progress with recruiting on defense. He is paying for that mistake this season.

I also agree that Bowen needs to be replaced by a competent DC but Beaty should wait until after the season to make that change. There will be more coaches available at the end of the season so there is no reason to rush firing Bowen.

Then in this recruiting class Beaty needs to turn most of his attention to shoring up the defense. Since Beaty has experience with WRs he may need to get more comfortable recruiting on the defensive side of the ball but that has to be his focus. If I were Beaty and Zenger I would already have my new DC identified from a coaching staff that is on it's way out. Beaty and Zenger will have to overpay the new DC to come to KU so they need to have a very sweet compensation package ready to go. That DC hire needs to happen quickly after the season to stabilize and help with recruiting on defense.


Edited by pizzanbeer (10/10/17 08:50 PM)

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#2021579 - 10/10/17 08:54 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: pizzanbeer]
Yardbirdbob Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/12
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
I think Beaty has the ship headed in the right direction on offense. Add some larger OL players and a power RB and Beaty should be able to convert on 4th and 1. Most of our players on offense return next season and they are improving.

The problem Beaty is running into is that he made progress recruiting on offense but did not make the same progress on defense. He is paying for that mistake this season. I also agree that Bowen needs to be replaced by a competent DC but Beaty should wait until after the season to make that change. There will be more coaches available at the end of the season so there is no reason to rush firing Bowen.

Then in this recruiting class Beaty needs to turn most of his attention to shoring up the defense. Since Beaty has experience with WRs he may need to get more comfortable recruiting on the defensive side of the ball but that has to be his focus. If I were Beaty and Zenger I would already have my new DC identified from a coaching staff that is on it's way out. Beaty and Zenger will have to overpay the new DC to come to KU so they need to have a very sweet compensation package ready to go. That DC hire needs to happen quickly after the season to stabilize and help with recruiting.


All very reasonable suggestions. But have you read the Phog tonight? Go spend 15 minutes there and see if you can honestly tell me you think Beaty will be here this time next year. . . Hell, look at the comment sections on this weeks football articles in the LJW on-line. Beaty might well be here next year, but if I was a recruit with a brain, I wouldn't bet he'd be at KU through 2019.

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#2021581 - 10/10/17 09:28 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Yardbirdbob

- a dwindling pool of coaches willing to put up with 2.5 years to complete turn around.


False premise, stopped reading right here. Go back to school.

No one is expecting a complete turnaround. We are expecting a coach to be able to field a competitive team.

4 wins is competitive.
4 wins is attainable in 2-3 years.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

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#2021582 - 10/10/17 09:42 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: Yardbirdbob
All very reasonable suggestions. But have you read the Phog tonight? Go spend 15 minutes there and see if you can honestly tell me you think Beaty will be here this time next year. . . Hell, look at the comment sections on this weeks football articles in the LJW on-line. Beaty might well be here next year, but if I was a recruit with a brain, I wouldn't bet he'd be at KU through 2019.


The Phog opinion on Beaty does not change my opinion. Most of their frustration is with the performance on the defensive side. I believe Beaty will be here next season because we just extended his contract. He deserves 4 years based on how bad Weis killed the program. Recruits need to see a very strong hire for the new DC. That hire will make or break Beaty.

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#2021585 - 10/10/17 11:07 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: pizzanbeer]
EstebanBugatti Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 12/07/15
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: Yardbirdbob
All very reasonable suggestions. But have you read the Phog tonight? Go spend 15 minutes there and see if you can honestly tell me you think Beaty will be here this time next year. . . Hell, look at the comment sections on this weeks football articles in the LJW on-line. Beaty might well be here next year, but if I was a recruit with a brain, I wouldn't bet he'd be at KU through 2019.


The Phog opinion on Beaty does not change my opinion. Most of their frustration is with the performance on the defensive side. I believe Beaty will be here next season because we just extended his contract. He deserves 4 years based on how bad Weis killed the program. Recruits need to see a very strong hire for the new DC. That hire will make or break Beaty.


Beaty is already broken. He is refusing to accept that Bowen is an awful DC. He just can't look past the fact that Bowen is his buddy and see what everyone else can.

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#2021590 - 10/11/17 08:52 AM Re: Unpopular message [Re: EstebanBugatti]
Magicman Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/13
I'm with a lot of others on the board. I think Beaty should get, at least, next year and maybe two more years. Almost, everyone agreed that it would take at least five years to get this thing turned around. I have seen quite a bit of improvement from our offense (not counting our last game). On the other hand, Bowen is another story. Our defense is pathetic and there are no excuses for playing this bad in year three. I really can't believe that Bowen has not been fired, or at least demoted to a position coach! Unacceptable!

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#2021591 - 10/11/17 11:52 AM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
I've seen enough chaos on offense (now who is QB!?!) and turnovers, along with the historic levels reached on "defense". But Beaty is delusional and says he has faith in Bowen's 122nd ranked defense. He is far worse than scooterman, and that's saying a lot. Time to make a change internally, and get Beaty to move DC duties to someone else during the season. Then boot Bowen to the curb at the end of it.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2021592 - 10/11/17 12:20 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jman1 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
I've seen enough chaos on offense (now who is QB!?!) and turnovers, along with the historic levels reached on "defense". But Beaty is delusional and says he has faith in Bowen's 122nd ranked defense. He is far worse than scooterman, and that's saying a lot. Time to make a change internally, and get Beaty to move DC duties to someone else during the season. Then boot Bowen to the curb at the end of it.


Not to stir the pot any more than it already is, but who do you believe we have on the coaching staff that is capable of coaching defense, even on a Powder Puff level? We already have powder puff level.

I guess the administration could beg and plead to bring in the Butt Nut, Jimmy West


Edited by Jman1 (10/11/17 12:23 PM)

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#2021595 - 10/11/17 01:21 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Jman1]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
I've seen enough chaos on offense (now who is QB!?!) and turnovers, along with the historic levels reached on "defense". But Beaty is delusional and says he has faith in Bowen's 122nd ranked defense. He is far worse than scooterman, and that's saying a lot. Time to make a change internally, and get Beaty to move DC duties to someone else during the season. Then boot Bowen to the curb at the end of it.


Not to stir the pot any more than it already is, but who do you believe we have on the coaching staff that is capable of coaching defense, even on a Powder Puff level? We already have powder puff level.

I guess the administration could beg and plead to bring in the Butt Nut, Jimmy West
What if Mrs. Kansas is now DC, then CB can be a stay at home mom?

Seriously, I would give the DC position interim to the linebackers coach. After all, only three big time defensive teams are ranked worst than Kansas.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2021596 - 10/11/17 02:06 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Yardbirdbob
Not sure why you are so confident Beaty makes it to next year.
For a couple of reasons.

1st, I knew as of a week ago, a couple key big money donors were still all in with coach Beaty and Zenger.
2nd, Girod is solid on Zenger right now and for the immediate future. Girod appears to also be solid on coach Beaty. Don't think Girod is going to fire Zenger within the next year and a half or so.
3rd, If Zenger is going to be here, then coach Beaty is for sure going to be here.

It would take one, or more likely a couple of influential donors to really press for change for anything to happen before the end of 2018 IMHO. Don't see that happening right now.

I think coach Beaty is going to get 2018 to prove himself before the people who make the decisions and/or have the influence decide to move on if he still hasn't started showing tangible improvement on the field.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2021597 - 10/11/17 03:35 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Lawrence Beer Co.
I've heard pretty consistently he'll get at least non-conference next year.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2021599 - 10/11/17 03:57 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
It might be in our long term best interest to have Beaty keep Bowen at DC. That will ensure Beaty fails and force Girod to clean out the rat nest of incompetence in Zenger, Beaty and Bowen.

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#2021602 - 10/11/17 05:27 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
I understand losing but we haven't even been competitive in the last two. Beaty is losing in scoring margins as much as Weis and Gill. The slow starts still baffle me and I want to know why they can't figure that out. The first three touchdowns by Tech was like a knife through butter. Why does it take Bowen so long to make adjustments?
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2021604 - 10/11/17 05:42 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: 58hawk]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
I understand losing but we haven't even been competitive in the last two. Beaty is losing in scoring margins as much as Weis and Gill. The slow starts still baffle me and I want to know why they can't figure that out. The first three touchdowns by Tech was like a knife through butter. Why does it take Bowen so long to make adjustments?
You hit the nail on the head! It isn't JUST the crappy football, shoot, we are KU Grid fans for crying out loud. God knows we have decades and decades of experience in losing. If we had a coaching staff that put a hard nosed product on the field that won 4 to 6 games a year with a bowl birth of some sort every three of four years, the vast majority of us would be thrilled beyond repair. Heading into this season, many (NOT ME!) thought DB and crew would actually win 4 to 6 and maybe pull off a huge upset or at least keep a big dog wondering until the final seconds. Like Mason did with the Bugeaters back in 1993 or Mangino did with the Bevos in 04. DB appears to be farther away from even an average team than he was 2 years ago. Every other coach hired to turn things around I can recall in my lifetime of watching KU ( Pepper, Fam, Gottfried, Mason, Mangino) with the exception of Chuckles and now Beaty showed vast improvement from year one to three. Hell, DB's teams aren't even good enough to stay after halftime for those willing to buy the ticket and make the trip.

In all honesty, surely there is an attorney who frequents this board....is it time to file the class action lawsuit against KAI? This crap needs to be stopped somehow!

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#2021608 - 10/11/17 11:23 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
moose1 Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
I am assuming Beaty gets one more year. That said if the season ends with a bunch more games like the Tech game, who knows.

I must say this whole notion that a coach needs 5 years to rebuild is a bunch of crap. What program has taken that long to show signs of progress. I would say none, or if there is one it is the exception. Most programs that turn it around show signs in years 2 and 3 of progress. I look at this team, and there is no progress. Anyone who says there is progress, is just pumping sunshine. I have heard the same garbage for the last 9 years that the team is showing improvement. If there was improvement KU would not be the worst P5 program out there by far. As for this year's team I am pretty sure they get beaten by last year's team. That is going backward. Being this bad does nothing for recruiting. I am skeptical we hold on to the talented players that have given a verbal commitment. I just don't think a team can be this bad, and get players to play for them. I don't care how much they like the coach.

I will say Beaty was handed a sh!t show, and probably deserves an extra year because of it. I don't see him doing anything with it, but he probably deserves that shot.

Overall I think KU is a long ways from being even somewhat relevant. When they are, we will look back and Beaty will have had nothing to do with that.

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#2021610 - 10/12/17 12:53 AM Re: Unpopular message [Re: moose1]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
I must say this whole notion that a coach needs 5 years to rebuild is a bunch of crap. What program has taken that long to show signs of progress. I would say none, or if there is one it is the exception. Most programs that turn it around show signs in years 2 and 3 of progress.
I think it depends on what you mean by rebuilding a program. Showing signs of progress versus turning it around versus a rebuild are 3 different things IMO.

Is this team rebuilt? My answer, No.

Is this team turned around? I don't think anybody thinks so, including myself.

Has this team shown signs of progress? I think it has in certain areas, but not at all in other areas. More of a mixed bag, but this year's team has definitely regressed from last year's team and that's not a good sign.

Originally Posted By: moose1
Being this bad does nothing for recruiting. I am skeptical we hold on to the talented players that have given a verbal commitment. I just don't think a team can be this bad, and get players to play for them. I don't care how much they like the coach.

This worries me too, but I've heard recently that they're still committed to KU and not just because they gave a verbal earlier in the year, but they're still committed to our program and coaches right now, even after this past weekend's loss.

I think it's hard to fully understand from an outsiders view (all of us) how important those personal relationships with the coaches are.

If I had to rank just how committed I think the top 3 guys are right now, I'd put them as Williams, Harris, then Jason from most committed to least committed. Least committed in this context doesn't at all mean he's not still committed 100% at this point in time, just that if 1 of these guys did flip or decommit I'd guess it would more likely be him than the others. Haven't heard anything at all though that would lead me to believe any of them are even thinking about it right now either.

I think we've already lost the guys who weren't really committed KU or the coaches, but rather committed to the idea and vibe of KU as they were told it and experienced it when they visited.

While I'm confident that we'll hold on to most of the top guys we've got committed right now, I'm still a little anxious about it. I'm really more worried about filling out the rest of this class right now. I think they may have 2 more guys quietly committed right now, but other than that I haven't heard about anyone else looking like they may commit anytime soon. That worries me a lot.

Originally Posted By: moose1
I will say Beaty was handed a sh!t show, and probably deserves an extra year because of it. I don't see him doing anything with it, but he probably deserves that shot.
That's obviously the 64 million dollar question. Right now it doesn't look promising, but that's why the old cliche about you have to actually play the games to find out exists.

Originally Posted By: moose1
Overall I think KU is a long ways from being even somewhat relevant. When they are, we will look back and Beaty will have had nothing to do with that.
Now that's a bit harsh IMHO. I agree that the team is not performing well at all right now and even looks to have regressed from last year or at least from the team from the 2nd half of last year. Despite all of that, I still think coach Beaty deserves some credit for building this roster back up as quickly as he has. It still isn't where it needs to be, but he's got it further along than I thought it would be at this point. He's also done a great job at mending a ton of bridges that were burnt by previous coaches and that's important for the longer term and not just something to feel good about. He's done a tremendous job of getting our facilities improved too. Don't think a lot of that would have been done if he wasn't our coach.

So, I think Beaty has done a lot of good things for setting the foundation of the program even if he ultimately fails as the HC on the field I think it'll be set up a lot better for the next coach to succeed more easily. IF that's what happens with Beaty in the end.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2021612 - 10/12/17 08:11 AM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Kman & moose make some good points directly above my comments here. My ramblings are that we have reached Gameball level team roster, and that, like Bud Moore as a coach, giving Beaty the reins will be like a roller coaster ride. Unlike Moore however, the "ride" is modified to not allow any hills to be climbed, just valleys. Still feel Bowen hasn't shown enough talent as DC to be continuing. Perhaps put him in charge of changing the facilities as a Zenger assistant. After all, Zenger horse collared Beaty with the guy initially. Seeing Beaty realize he can't win as Kansas University HC is cringeworthy in the post game interviews now. Recruiting for 2018 is now hovering at 10 recruits giving Beaty's team ranking a 247 source position at #70 or thereabouts. But I still feel that the right turn around candidate is out there to make Kansas a relevant football program as decent as ISU.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2021627 - 10/12/17 12:44 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Yardbirdbob Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/12
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Kman & moose make some good points directly above my comments here. My ramblings are that we have reached Gameball level team roster, and that, like Bud Moore as a coach, giving Beaty the reins will be like a roller coaster ride. Unlike Moore however, the "ride" is modified to not allow any hills to be climbed, just valleys. Still feel Bowen hasn't shown enough talent as DC to be continuing. Perhaps put him in charge of changing the facilities as a Zenger assistant. After all, Zenger horse collared Beaty with the guy initially. Seeing Beaty realize he can't win as Kansas University HC is cringeworthy in the post game interviews now. Recruiting for 2018 is now hovering at 10 recruits giving Beaty's team ranking a 247 source position at #70 or thereabouts. But I still feel that the right turn around candidate is out there to make Kansas a relevant football program as decent as ISU.



"Seeing Beaty realize he can't win as Kansas University HC is cringeworthy in the post game interviews now."

I hear the same thing in his voice, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, he is having to do "on the job training" for his position. IMO, the best we can hope for is to give him another 2-3 years, and hope that he grows into the position. Firing him after less than five years is a no-win situation.

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#2021669 - 10/13/17 09:40 AM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Kman_blue]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: moose1
Being this bad does nothing for recruiting. I am skeptical we hold on to the talented players that have given a verbal commitment. I just don't think a team can be this bad, and get players to play for them. I don't care how much they like the coach.
If I had to rank just how committed I think the top 3 guys are right now, I'd put them as Williams, Harris, then Jason from most committed to least committed.
Along this line of the thread, heard OU offered Williams recently. Also heard, Williams is still 100% solid with KU after the offer.

I've always thought this kid was the most solidly committed to KU from day 1 and it looks like that's still true.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2021671 - 10/13/17 09:53 AM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Originally Posted By: Yardbirdbob
Firing him after less than five years is a no-win situation.


Just this single sentence is quite telling! I sure hope there is no double meaning to it but, I also fear that retaining DB for five full years might just be a "no win situation"! sick

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#2021692 - 10/13/17 07:00 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: beenahawk]
Yardbirdbob Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 10/07/12
No beenahawk, i seriously did not mean it that way. However, after looking at it, I can see your point!

If he wins no more games this year, and wiffs next year too, I'd say it would be tough to bring HCDB back for a 5th year.


Edited by Yardbirdbob (10/13/17 09:50 PM)

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#2021695 - 10/13/17 08:33 PM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
Jman1 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 12/12/03
With the inevitability that lies in front of the KU football braintrust, the 5th year is not going to happen for the Texan or Mr "I have no clue how to coach or teach defense" Bowen. KU admin and Regents may hold them over next year to save some face and some money but the beatdowns will continue to be epic

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#2021711 - 10/14/17 01:06 AM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
moose1 Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
Originally Posted By: Yardbirdbob
No beenahawk, i seriously did not mean it that way. However, after looking at it, I can see your point!

If he wins no more games this year, and wiffs next year too, I'd say it would be tough to bring HCDB back for a 5th year.


Tough? It would be impossible. At some point he needs to win games. Nothing else will matter. I don't think KU is going to win again this year. Next year I think Beaty needs to win 4 games to keep his job.

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#2021715 - 10/14/17 09:50 AM Re: Unpopular message [Re: Yardbirdbob]
KUHawkhead Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Mc to the Pherson
Two things....1) We can fire him, but honestly, who would take this complete abortion of a job and program, no matter what the money is? I believe that (finally) Zenger will be gone, along with the shitshow that football has become under him. Yes, I realize it was Lew F the true fans Perkins who destroyed our program by firing the coach of the year two years later just because he couldn't handle having Mangino outgun him on penis size. But to fire Gill after two years and replace him with the single most overrated and worst coach in the country was totally ridiculous. It shows the Zenger is truly in over his head, and while Big XII titles in basketball every year are nice, we should truly have a couple more Naty's to go along with them. Keeping Self happy is important, but I feel Zenger truly appeases him without any type of pressure for true next level type accomplishments.

2) The Big XII, Truckstop Ten, Little Tex Ten, whatever it is called is going to be gone soon. It's a fact. No one pays for cable and satellite any more, and when the contracts expire, the re-ups will not be nearly as lucrative, which will cause the conference to fold. It is why we HAVE to upgrade our stadium NOW. Though we obviously do not have an even capable, let alone decent team, we must have the facilities that at least show we are trying to be serious about competing. Now some say, well hell...if we go mid major, as that might be our only option, that's fine. We can be like WSU and win our little self owned conference and make the tourney every year where we will have a shot....Well, see guys like Self are different than you and me. They will ONLY settle for playing in a top tier conference. If we go mid major (something that could be a reality) people of high quality like him are going to be gone. Some will call bullshit, but I guarantee you he isn't about to "settle".

All in all, we are screwed with a capital F on football for the foreseeable future. Probably our best call is to stay on with Beaty until Zenger is relieved, then allow the new AD (hopefully a LEGIT football guy) hire his dude. It sucks, seeing how we truly would've been better just shelving the program for the 8 years it's been since we won even 5 games in a season, than doing what we did, but this is truly where I see our program with the realistic prospect of conference realignment looming.

RCJHKU!
_________________________
It's MISSOURI. We don't lose to them at home-Bill Self-2/25/2012

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