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#2020548 - 09/16/17 01:49 PM Post Mangino teams are just soft
rockchalkjjjhawk Offline
Seer

Registered: 11/20/04
1)It sure seems at times that there are serious IQ issues for both coaches and players.
2)Players from Texas appear overly soft as a whole.
3)Every year KU fans hear what great speed has been added but then witness the opposite on the field.
4)The number of unforced turnovers/penalties by KU at critical times, year after year, is absolutely mindboggling.
5)You can't help but think that if Coach Self is planning on being around for awhile, he might want to start getting more involved in football decisions. Because 'when' the next round of conference realignments occur, the historic basketball program could end up marginalized in the process.
6)One bright spot has been definite improvement in the overall kicking game.

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#2020554 - 09/16/17 02:26 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: rockchalkjjjhawk]
Jman1 Offline
Big Dipper

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: rockchalkjjjhawk
1)It sure seems at times that there are serious IQ issues for both coaches and players.
2)Players from Texas appear overly soft as a whole.
3)Every year KU fans hear what great speed has been added but then witness the opposite on the field.
4)The number of unforced turnovers/penalties by KU at critical times, year after year, is absolutely mindboggling.
5)You can't help but think that if Coach Self is planning on being around for awhile, he might want to start getting more involved in football decisions. Because 'when' the next round of conference realignments occur, the historic basketball program could end up
marginalized in the process.
6)One bright spot has been definite improvement in the overall kicking game.


1. Check. Im not sure if one of them has an IQ over 100
2..Check. But in the same breath they are ALL Marshmallows
3. Check. year in and year out the team speed is DII level or FCS at best
4. Check. Missed tackles, offsides, holding, facemasks, delay of game, ertc. Seems as if the go to play on defense in the open field is the facemask
5. Check. But basketball will go to the PAC or Big 10. Football will either be FCS or dropped altogether
6. Check But it certainly could NOT have gotten any worse Atleast now they can make an extra point or 30 yard FG

I will also add generalized apathy and emotionless drones running around slowly on the field


Edited by Jman1 (09/16/17 02:39 PM)

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#2020556 - 09/16/17 02:30 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: rockchalkjjjhawk]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: rockchalkjjjhawk
1)It sure seems at times that there are serious IQ issues for both coaches and players.
2)Players from Texas appear overly soft as a whole.
3)Every year KU fans hear what great speed has been added but then witness the opposite on the field.
4)The number of unforced turnovers/penalties by KU at critical times, year after year, is absolutely mindboggling.
5)You can't help but think that if Coach Self is planning on being around for awhile, he might want to start getting more involved in football decisions. Because 'when' the next round of conference realignments occur, the historic basketball program could end up marginalized in the process.
6)One bright spot has been definite improvement in the overall kicking game.

Basic fundamental football is lacking. One....repeated failure to set the edge in the run game. Two....arm tackling...it's as though these kids have never been taught to tackle...looks like pee wee football. Bowen has got to go....no team toughness.

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#2020558 - 09/16/17 02:34 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: rockchalkjjjhawk]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Lack of talent, speed, depth in the LB and DB departments. We are stock full of Lawrence kids that play their tails off but you can't coach speed. But yes Bowen is also the problem.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2020562 - 09/16/17 02:47 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: 58hawk]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
BS...speed is not the issue when 4 guys make contact with the ball carrier but fail to bring him down because they are arm tackling.

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#2020566 - 09/16/17 03:21 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: rockchalkjjjhawk]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
It is when the offense runs laterally and gets around the corner.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2020567 - 09/16/17 03:22 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: rockchalkjjjhawk]
INation Offline
Thunderhawk

Registered: 09/20/14
Bowen need to take over the Lawrence High football program when Coach Wedd decides to retire. That would be the level where Bowens ability is at.

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#2020569 - 09/16/17 03:22 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: rockchalkjjjhawk]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Agree.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2020573 - 09/16/17 04:35 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: INation]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: INation
Bowen need to take over the Lawrence High football program when Coach Wedd decides to retire. That would be the level where Bowens ability is at.

You meant Beaty, right?
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2020575 - 09/16/17 04:48 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jman1 Offline
Big Dipper

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: INation
Bowen need to take over the Lawrence High football program when Coach Wedd decides to retire. That would be the level where Bowens ability is at.

You meant Beaty, right?


They can go together as a "Package Deal". Should take about 2 seasons to get to the basement of the Sunflower League

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#2020605 - 09/16/17 10:23 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: INation]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: INation
Bowen need to take over the Lawrence High football program when Coach Wedd decides to retire. That would be the level where Bowens ability is at. He has already retired. Last season as the helm.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2020614 - 09/17/17 12:39 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: 58hawk]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Lack of talent, speed, depth in the LB and DB departments. We are stock full of Lawrence kids that play their tails off but you can't coach speed. But yes Bowen is also the problem.
I remember the same things being said about KU's DB's a few years ago and 2 of those guys are in the NFL or played a few seasons in the NFL, and no they're not Talib and Harris.

It's not lack of talent or even speed. In the DB department it's youth/inexperience. At LB it's lack of physicality at 1 spot and lack of lateral speed at the other and then a lack of depth. But moreover it's a lack of good coaching on the D IMHO. With a better scheme and more effective coaching this same exact D would be noticeably better. The DB's would still get burned some as they're just too inexperienced outside of Defense and he's too new to the team and apparently doesn't have the personality to be the leader back there. So, you got a lot of young inexperienced guys running around making rookie type mistakes with nobody out there to calm them down and help them out like Fish did last year. That is just a terrible combination to have on either side of the ball. The on field leadership from upperclassmen is critical and we simply don't have it in large part because of the roster situation left by the last coach. I mean 3 or 4 Seniors and only a few Juniors starting who've been in the program at least 3 years is having a big effect on this team.

That's not to give any pass to the coaches. It's their job to try and overcome that and to try and scheme around it. The D lacks toughness and that's also a coaching problem. You can be the smartest coach around and know everything there is about the D backwards and forwards, but if you can't install toughness, attitude, motivation and translate all of that knowledge to the players in an effective manner then you aren't getting the job done. That's the problem I see with our D right now. I wouldn't be at all upset if there was a coaching change or 2 on the D side of the ball.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2020616 - 09/17/17 12:54 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: rockchalkjjjhawk]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
So, my take away is that it is Weis' fault still? Lame excuse IMHO. But yes heads on asst D side will roll next. Gives Beaty another year of futility. 4-44?
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2020617 - 09/17/17 01:04 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: Jman1]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: INation
Bowen need to take over the Lawrence High football program when Coach Wedd decides to retire. That would be the level where Bowens ability is at.

You meant Beaty, right?


They can go together as a "Package Deal". Should take about 2 seasons to get to the basement of the Sunflower League
At least we don't have to see them try to recruit @ LHS.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2020624 - 09/17/17 01:52 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
So, my take away is that it is Weis' fault still? Lame excuse IMHO. But yes heads on asst D side will roll next. Gives Beaty another year of futility. 4-44?
Go back and read it again if that's your take away as you missed a lot. In fact you appear to have missed more than 90% of what I posted.

To your specific point though, the lack of upperclassmen on this team is 100% the fault of Weis as he was the HC when they would have had to be recruited to KU for them to now be upperclassmen in the program for more than 2 years. It's simple fuc|king math. A statement of pure fact.

If you think a team with no upperclassmen leaders is going to play the same as one full of them then you show a complete and total lack of football IQ or understanding.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2020675 - 09/18/17 04:28 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: Kman_blue]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Lack of talent, speed, depth in the LB and DB departments. We are stock full of Lawrence kids that play their tails off but you can't coach speed. But yes Bowen is also the problem.
I remember the same things being said about KU's DB's a few years ago and 2 of those guys are in the NFL or played a few seasons in the NFL, and no they're not Talib and Harris.

It's not lack of talent or even speed. In the DB department it's youth/inexperience. At LB it's lack of physicality at 1 spot and lack of lateral speed at the other and then a lack of depth. But moreover it's a lack of good coaching on the D IMHO. With a better scheme and more effective coaching this same exact D would be noticeably better. The DB's would still get burned some as they're just too inexperienced outside of Defense and he's too new to the team and apparently doesn't have the personality to be the leader back there. So, you got a lot of young inexperienced guys running around making rookie type mistakes with nobody out there to calm them down and help them out like Fish did last year. That is just a terrible combination to have on either side of the ball. The on field leadership from upperclassmen is critical and we simply don't have it in large part because of the roster situation left by the last coach. I mean 3 or 4 Seniors and only a few Juniors starting who've been in the program at least 3 years is having a big effect on this team.

That's not to give any pass to the coaches. It's their job to try and overcome that and to try and scheme around it. The D lacks toughness and that's also a coaching problem. You can be the smartest coach around and know everything there is about the D backwards and forwards, but if you can't install toughness, attitude, motivation and translate all of that knowledge to the players in an effective manner then you aren't getting the job done. That's the problem I see with our D right now. I wouldn't be at all upset if there was a coaching change or 2 on the D side of the ball.
If you think that Dineen is as fast as sa Heeney then we've got a problem. And how many all-Big 12 kids do we have at LB and DB? So yes it does include talent and speed. I watched SEMS run the ball wide effectively because our lateral pursuit was so bad.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2020683 - 09/18/17 05:17 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: 58hawk]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Lack of talent, speed, depth in the LB and DB departments. We are stock full of Lawrence kids that play their tails off but you can't coach speed. But yes Bowen is also the problem.
I remember the same things being said about KU's DB's a few years ago and 2 of those guys are in the NFL or played a few seasons in the NFL, and no they're not Talib and Harris.

It's not lack of talent or even speed. In the DB department it's youth/inexperience. At LB it's lack of physicality at 1 spot and lack of lateral speed at the other and then a lack of depth. But moreover it's a lack of good coaching on the D IMHO. With a better scheme and more effective coaching this same exact D would be noticeably better. The DB's would still get burned some as they're just too inexperienced outside of Defense and he's too new to the team and apparently doesn't have the personality to be the leader back there. So, you got a lot of young inexperienced guys running around making rookie type mistakes with nobody out there to calm them down and help them out like Fish did last year. That is just a terrible combination to have on either side of the ball. The on field leadership from upperclassmen is critical and we simply don't have it in large part because of the roster situation left by the last coach. I mean 3 or 4 Seniors and only a few Juniors starting who've been in the program at least 3 years is having a big effect on this team.

That's not to give any pass to the coaches. It's their job to try and overcome that and to try and scheme around it. The D lacks toughness and that's also a coaching problem. You can be the smartest coach around and know everything there is about the D backwards and forwards, but if you can't install toughness, attitude, motivation and translate all of that knowledge to the players in an effective manner then you aren't getting the job done. That's the problem I see with our D right now. I wouldn't be at all upset if there was a coaching change or 2 on the D side of the ball.
If you think that Dineen is as fast as sa Heeney then we've got a problem. And how many all-Big 12 kids do we have at LB and DB? So yes it does include talent and speed. I watched SEMS run the ball wide effectively because our lateral pursuit was so bad.
It's a Beaty problem if we lack talent or speed...
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2020697 - 09/19/17 01:55 AM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: 58hawk]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
If you think that Dineen is as fast as sa Heeney then we've got a problem. And how many all-Big 12 kids do we have at LB and DB? So yes it does include talent and speed. I watched SEMS run the ball wide effectively because our lateral pursuit was so bad.
I never said that. In fact I specifically mentioned a lack of lateral speed at the LB spot. Heeney had virtually unmatched lateral speed. In a straight line run, Dineen and Heeney are quite similar though, but Heeney blows Dineen away in lateral speed (cone drill) as he did most other LB's across the country. Dineen's lateral speed looks below average too.

I was talking more about our secondary in terms of people complaining about their speed and talent in previous years and that not being the case at all as 2 of those guys made it to the NFL. Those 2 guys were Bradley McDougald and Tyler Patmon. Both were starters or on the 2 deep in our secondary in 2010, 2011 and 2012 for the Georgia Tech slaughter where the main complaint against our D was a lack of speed and talent, as well as several other blowouts featuring QB's passing for tons of yards. Patmon was specifically called out after several games for having a lack of talent too. Both guys are now in the NFL which I think clearly shows they didn't lack talent nor speed at all.

Those same complaints are being made about this secondary. Most every single guy in our secondary's 2-deep is brand new to the program or close to it. Their main problem has been a lack of experience and coaching IMO not speed and talent. Not claiming anyone from our current secondary is definitely going to make it to the NFL like Patmon and McDougald, but I wouldn't be surprised if 1 or 2 do either.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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