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#2020675 - 09/18/17 04:28 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: Kman_blue]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Lack of talent, speed, depth in the LB and DB departments. We are stock full of Lawrence kids that play their tails off but you can't coach speed. But yes Bowen is also the problem.
I remember the same things being said about KU's DB's a few years ago and 2 of those guys are in the NFL or played a few seasons in the NFL, and no they're not Talib and Harris.

It's not lack of talent or even speed. In the DB department it's youth/inexperience. At LB it's lack of physicality at 1 spot and lack of lateral speed at the other and then a lack of depth. But moreover it's a lack of good coaching on the D IMHO. With a better scheme and more effective coaching this same exact D would be noticeably better. The DB's would still get burned some as they're just too inexperienced outside of Defense and he's too new to the team and apparently doesn't have the personality to be the leader back there. So, you got a lot of young inexperienced guys running around making rookie type mistakes with nobody out there to calm them down and help them out like Fish did last year. That is just a terrible combination to have on either side of the ball. The on field leadership from upperclassmen is critical and we simply don't have it in large part because of the roster situation left by the last coach. I mean 3 or 4 Seniors and only a few Juniors starting who've been in the program at least 3 years is having a big effect on this team.

That's not to give any pass to the coaches. It's their job to try and overcome that and to try and scheme around it. The D lacks toughness and that's also a coaching problem. You can be the smartest coach around and know everything there is about the D backwards and forwards, but if you can't install toughness, attitude, motivation and translate all of that knowledge to the players in an effective manner then you aren't getting the job done. That's the problem I see with our D right now. I wouldn't be at all upset if there was a coaching change or 2 on the D side of the ball.
If you think that Dineen is as fast as sa Heeney then we've got a problem. And how many all-Big 12 kids do we have at LB and DB? So yes it does include talent and speed. I watched SEMS run the ball wide effectively because our lateral pursuit was so bad.
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#2020683 - 09/18/17 05:17 PM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: 58hawk]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Lack of talent, speed, depth in the LB and DB departments. We are stock full of Lawrence kids that play their tails off but you can't coach speed. But yes Bowen is also the problem.
I remember the same things being said about KU's DB's a few years ago and 2 of those guys are in the NFL or played a few seasons in the NFL, and no they're not Talib and Harris.

It's not lack of talent or even speed. In the DB department it's youth/inexperience. At LB it's lack of physicality at 1 spot and lack of lateral speed at the other and then a lack of depth. But moreover it's a lack of good coaching on the D IMHO. With a better scheme and more effective coaching this same exact D would be noticeably better. The DB's would still get burned some as they're just too inexperienced outside of Defense and he's too new to the team and apparently doesn't have the personality to be the leader back there. So, you got a lot of young inexperienced guys running around making rookie type mistakes with nobody out there to calm them down and help them out like Fish did last year. That is just a terrible combination to have on either side of the ball. The on field leadership from upperclassmen is critical and we simply don't have it in large part because of the roster situation left by the last coach. I mean 3 or 4 Seniors and only a few Juniors starting who've been in the program at least 3 years is having a big effect on this team.

That's not to give any pass to the coaches. It's their job to try and overcome that and to try and scheme around it. The D lacks toughness and that's also a coaching problem. You can be the smartest coach around and know everything there is about the D backwards and forwards, but if you can't install toughness, attitude, motivation and translate all of that knowledge to the players in an effective manner then you aren't getting the job done. That's the problem I see with our D right now. I wouldn't be at all upset if there was a coaching change or 2 on the D side of the ball.
If you think that Dineen is as fast as sa Heeney then we've got a problem. And how many all-Big 12 kids do we have at LB and DB? So yes it does include talent and speed. I watched SEMS run the ball wide effectively because our lateral pursuit was so bad.
It's a Beaty problem if we lack talent or speed...
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#2020697 - 09/19/17 01:55 AM Re: Post Mangino teams are just soft [Re: 58hawk]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
If you think that Dineen is as fast as sa Heeney then we've got a problem. And how many all-Big 12 kids do we have at LB and DB? So yes it does include talent and speed. I watched SEMS run the ball wide effectively because our lateral pursuit was so bad.
I never said that. In fact I specifically mentioned a lack of lateral speed at the LB spot. Heeney had virtually unmatched lateral speed. In a straight line run, Dineen and Heeney are quite similar though, but Heeney blows Dineen away in lateral speed (cone drill) as he did most other LB's across the country. Dineen's lateral speed looks below average too.

I was talking more about our secondary in terms of people complaining about their speed and talent in previous years and that not being the case at all as 2 of those guys made it to the NFL. Those 2 guys were Bradley McDougald and Tyler Patmon. Both were starters or on the 2 deep in our secondary in 2010, 2011 and 2012 for the Georgia Tech slaughter where the main complaint against our D was a lack of speed and talent, as well as several other blowouts featuring QB's passing for tons of yards. Patmon was specifically called out after several games for having a lack of talent too. Both guys are now in the NFL which I think clearly shows they didn't lack talent nor speed at all.

Those same complaints are being made about this secondary. Most every single guy in our secondary's 2-deep is brand new to the program or close to it. Their main problem has been a lack of experience and coaching IMO not speed and talent. Not claiming anyone from our current secondary is definitely going to make it to the NFL like Patmon and McDougald, but I wouldn't be surprised if 1 or 2 do either.
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