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#2020331 - 09/10/17 07:59 AM The game we forgot to show up
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
After sitting through the entire game yesterday, I didn't listen to or read 1 post game comment or story from any coach or anyone else. Got home drank a few beers and blew off some steam and watch the OU vs. OSU game, then watched the replay of the KU game on my DVR all in an attempt to be as objective as possible,

There was no fight from anyone on D. There was no inspired play on D by anyone. We looked like we basically had 4 or 5 players show up to play on the entire team in Dineen, Dom Williams, Deron, Wise, and maybe Adeniji. Couple other guys played OK.

Our OL is a complete disaster. With as much depth as we finally have there, there's no way in the world they should be this God awful. Ribordy did OK and Adeniji played well most of the game, but Frazier got his ass handed to him on every single play just about. Both OG spots struggled mightily all game long. Guys just stood upright and planted their feet in the ground and whiffed on their blocks. Run blocking was very poor overall depsite out improved running stats. Nobody got any push at all really. Pass blocking was non-existent. Bender was under pressure virtually the entire game and played like it. His game breaks down quickly once he gets some pressure on him.

WR;s didn't do much either. With as much talent and depth as we've got there, there's no excuse for how poorly they played as a group. They couldn't execute sh!t out there. No fight for the ball on poorly thrown balls. No blocking on the edge at all. Poor route running. A lot of miscommunication between them and Bender with the WR making the wrong read of the D more often than not responsible for that.

RB's played alright. Most guys ran well and did what they could with our poor OL play. A couple breakdowns on pass blocking, but overall they weren't the problem on O.

The DL is a joke. Armstrong is getting double or triple teamed on most all plays and is really struggling mightily to deal with it. I can give him a pass on that as this is the first time in his career where so much attention is being given to him, but the rest of the DL isn't doing squat to take advantage of the situation. Wise has his moments and plays well on most downs, but nobody else is doing a thing. The rest of them are getting pushed around at will on run plays and are getting manhandled by the poorest of OL on pass plays.

The LB's had all sorts of problems too. Dineen played well. He doesn't have the lateral speed of Heeney, but he reads plays well, fills gaps well and usually brings a good hit when he gets there. Lonecker has good instincts and tracks the ball well, but just doesn't have the size and strength to make the plays. He also struggles covering guys out of the backfield.

The DB's are non-existent. They couldn't cover half the HS WR's in 8 man ball in Western Kansas. There technique is crap. There speed is poor and their cover skills are a total joke. This entire group isn't FCS level much less poor FBS level IMHO. The only thing they do decent is run support. Otherwise forget about it.

Overall conclusion from me, we've got way more talent than it looked like yesterday but we don't have the mental edge. Not enough guys played like they wanted it and in some groups the coaching looks to be atrocious. No mental edge and bad positional coaching leads to the crap performance we had against an inferior team yesterday IMHO. The game plan on D was HORRIBLE. The game plan on O was alright, but the execution was maybe the worst I've seen since a couple of the coach Gill games. I looked on the sideline a couple of times and Meacham looked like he had a migraine from the totally sh!tty execution. One time he closed his eyes and just started rubbing the bridge of his nose in frustration. He was clearly just as frustrated and pissed as I and I imagine most of the KU faithful were.

Sure, we've got depth and talent issues at the DB group and perhaps at DT, and a lack of experience on OL, but not anywhere to the extent that it looked like yesterday. I put this squarely on the shoulders of the coaches and the lack of any guys stepping up on the field to become leaders. This game was a joke of an effort and this thing can come completely off the rails for the rest of the season if the coaches don't figure it out quickly and nobody steps up on the field to become a leader. That final part is why I think Stanley should start the next game. Kid is a proven leader on the field despite whatever physical shortcomings his arm may have compared to Bender. Stanley has some of that "it" factor and Bender doesn't from what I have seen so far.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2020332 - 09/10/17 08:14 AM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: Kman_blue]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
I totally blanked on Schadler for some reason.

He showed up and played really well. Maybe played the best out of any of our WR's actually. He obviously showed his great speed on that reverse sweep, but I thought he also ran good routes and managed to get open more often than not.

Just thought I should give him his proper dues despite my initial oversight.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2020334 - 09/10/17 09:58 AM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: Kman_blue]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
How does a team with so little success not show up? They should be starving.

Also I don't get why the OL is so bad. They weren't that bad last year and KU did not lose much, right? Why didn't they try other linemen on the right side. I get that they want to keep chemistry from practice, but when the play is that bad why not give someone else a chance?

I guess the question is where does KU go from here? If there is not any improvements then this is going to be a long season. I could see more of the kids that have orally committed going somewhere else. KU has to do something to get this turned around otherwise they will be going backwards from an already horrible place. With that in mind is there any chance of getting this thing turned around this season?

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#2020335 - 09/10/17 10:27 AM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: moose1]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
How does a team with so little success not show up? They should be starving.

Also I don't get why the OL is so bad. They weren't that bad last year and KU did not lose much, right? Why didn't they try other linemen on the right side. I get that they want to keep chemistry from practice, but when the play is that bad why not give someone else a chance?
Exactly what I thought. Baldwin should have taken over the RT spot after halt time IMHO. The next guy in line should have been put in at both OG spots too, but they didn't do any of that until very late. We;re both deeper and more talented on paper on the OL, yet we played worse on the OL than any game I can think of off the top of my head from last year. Hell the OL from last year would have performed significantly better than the OL this year and it's largely made up of the same exact guys! That points squarely to this being a mental thing as much as anything else. They didn't play with an edge. They play with a fire under their asses at all. Nobody appeared to take charge on the field and become a leader.

In regards to the second part of your post, the players and the staff are gonna have to figure that out real fast or you're gonna be right. It's going to be a long year. There needs to be a serious mindset shift if they're going to prevent this thing from completely running off the tracks. But as far as it being possible that KU could take a step backwards from where we've been and are currently, I don't see it. Our roster numbers are a lot better than they were over the past 2 years or 3 years and that helps out a great deal. We could stay stuck in the cellar or move sideways some, but not backwards IMO.

1 of the main reasons a lot of people were getting optimistic about this year is because KU appeared to have gotten some mojo going over the last 3 or 4 games of the season last year. Well, that mojo has gone MIA so far this year and nobody seems to know where the hell it went or how it left in the first place.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2020336 - 09/10/17 10:30 AM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: Kman_blue]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
After sitting through the entire game yesterday, I didn't listen to or read 1 post game comment or story from any coach or anyone else. Got home drank a few beers and blew off some steam and watch the OU vs. OSU game, then watched the replay of the KU game on my DVR all in an attempt to be as objective as possible,

There was no fight from anyone on D. There was no inspired play on D by anyone. We looked like we basically had 4 or 5 players show up to play on the entire team in Dineen, Dom Williams, Deron, Wise, and maybe Adeniji. Couple other guys played OK.

Our OL is a complete disaster. With as much depth as we finally have there, there's no way in the world they should be this God awful. Ribordy did OK and Adeniji played well most of the game, but Frazier got his ass handed to him on every single play just about. Both OG spots struggled mightily all game long. Guys just stood upright and planted their feet in the ground and whiffed on their blocks. Run blocking was very poor overall depsite out improved running stats. Nobody got any push at all really. Pass blocking was non-existent. Bender was under pressure virtually the entire game and played like it. His game breaks down quickly once he gets some pressure on him.

WR;s didn't do much either. With as much talent and depth as we've got there, there's no excuse for how poorly they played as a group. They couldn't execute sh!t out there. No fight for the ball on poorly thrown balls. No blocking on the edge at all. Poor route running. A lot of miscommunication between them and Bender with the WR making the wrong read of the D more often than not responsible for that.

RB's played alright. Most guys ran well and did what they could with our poor OL play. A couple breakdowns on pass blocking, but overall they weren't the problem on O.

The DL is a joke. Armstrong is getting double or triple teamed on most all plays and is really struggling mightily to deal with it. I can give him a pass on that as this is the first time in his career where so much attention is being given to him, but the rest of the DL isn't doing squat to take advantage of the situation. Wise has his moments and plays well on most downs, but nobody else is doing a thing. The rest of them are getting pushed around at will on run plays and are getting manhandled by the poorest of OL on pass plays.

The LB's had all sorts of problems too. Dineen played well. He doesn't have the lateral speed of Heeney, but he reads plays well, fills gaps well and usually brings a good hit when he gets there. Lonecker has good instincts and tracks the ball well, but just doesn't have the size and strength to make the plays. He also struggles covering guys out of the backfield.

The DB's are non-existent. They couldn't cover half the HS WR's in 8 man ball in Western Kansas. There technique is crap. There speed is poor and their cover skills are a total joke. This entire group isn't FCS level much less poor FBS level IMHO. The only thing they do decent is run support. Otherwise forget about it.

Overall conclusion from me, we've got way more talent than it looked like yesterday but we don't have the mental edge. Not enough guys played like they wanted it and in some groups the coaching looks to be atrocious. No mental edge and bad positional coaching leads to the crap performance we had against an inferior team yesterday IMHO. The game plan on D was HORRIBLE. The game plan on O was alright, but the execution was maybe the worst I've seen since a couple of the coach Gill games. I looked on the sideline a couple of times and Meacham looked like he had a migraine from the totally sh!tty execution. One time he closed his eyes and just started rubbing the bridge of his nose in frustration. He was clearly just as frustrated and pissed as I and I imagine most of the KU faithful were.

Sure, we've got depth and talent issues at the DB group and perhaps at DT, and a lack of experience on OL, but not anywhere to the extent that it looked like yesterday. I put this squarely on the shoulders of the coaches and the lack of any guys stepping up on the field to become leaders. This game was a joke of an effort and this thing can come completely off the rails for the rest of the season if the coaches don't figure it out quickly and nobody steps up on the field to become a leader. That final part is why I think Stanley should start the next game. Kid is a proven leader on the field despite whatever physical shortcomings his arm may have compared to Bender. Stanley has some of that "it" factor and Bender doesn't from what I have seen so far.

Last weekend was huge... mangino and the hall of fame awards got the young guys juiced. No surprise some of that adrenaline was missing this week. They are just kids and they are going to have ups and downs because this is young team.
I agree it's up to the coaches and the team leaders to get them up. No question in my mind they gave 100%... they just didn't have that extra juice this team needs to cover up all the mistakes they are going to make. If it was a senior dominated team then I might believe they weren't giving it their all. This is just one game. Although it was extremely disappointing, it's not the end of the season. Let's see how they respond next week.
From my perspective, Bowen is on notice.... when you have inexperienced DBs, you need to apply pressure at the line.... if that means blitz then you have to take a chance.
,


Edited by track (09/10/17 10:34 AM)

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#2020337 - 09/10/17 10:44 AM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: Kman_blue]
moose1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Wichita
There is no way they were playing 100%. I just don't see it. I don't know why, but that the same time I won't put that on the coaches. At this level and above you either have that fire or you don't. It should not take the coaches to psych you up.

Hopefully they come out with their hair on fire next week. If an ass whooping like this doesn't fire you up, and inspire them to do better, than nothing will.

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#2020338 - 09/10/17 11:14 AM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: moose1]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: moose1
There is no way they were playing 100%. I just don't see it. I don't know why, but that the same time I won't put that on the coaches. At this level and above you either have that fire or you don't. It should not take the coaches to psych you up.

Hopefully they come out with their hair on fire next week. If an ass whooping like this doesn't fire you up, and inspire them to do better, than nothing will.

I agree with your second paragraph..... totally disagree with the first though.

You think you are disappointed... pretty confident the team and the coaches disappoitment is greater than yours. .., they have way more invested.

So you are saying .... all decent college players are always fired up to the max....OU players should be just as fired up next week playing Tulane as they were last night playing Ohio State..... riiiiiiiiight!


Edited by track (09/10/17 12:12 PM)

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#2020339 - 09/10/17 11:36 AM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: Kman_blue]
KUCO_VOC Online   happy
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
If the players are talented (they are), HC DB has to make the connection with them to understand the must win theory to keeping said coach. It's better to try that approach now for DB than wish he had tried it later when he gets replaced.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2020340 - 09/10/17 12:03 PM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: track]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
It doesn't take a psychologist to see Beaty is extremely competitive and intense. Just a quick look at his face and you can see he is burning inside every time we screw up. Whether or not he can coach mistakes out of this team and get them to play at their absolute best is not clear. We have more talent than we have had in two years and next year we will be even more talented. Beaty needs to produce wins and prove he can coach ... and if that means demoting his friend and bringing in a new defensive coordinator then so be it.

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#2020341 - 09/10/17 12:29 PM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: Kman_blue]
KUCO_VOC Online   happy
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Beaty may be constipated so it looks intense! Just a joke.

Seriously, I keep being reminded of Bud Moore, former Kansas HC, who also had a southern drawl. His teams were always having off days on the field. Certainly, Beaty has laid an egg against CMU but he still has time to prove he can coach at BG12 level successfully.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2020344 - 09/10/17 01:22 PM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: moose1]
Jman1 Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 12/12/03
well we showed up, but beyond that the team just watched like most in the stands. I would say 3-4 guys really wanted to "earn it". Other than that it was pathetic

PS. Does Beaty have to go back on Tweeter(LOL) and rescind all his "neat deals" when all the recruits bail? how does that work? Is there a recant button or a "Whoopsie" Button


Edited by Jman1 (09/10/17 01:34 PM)

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#2020345 - 09/10/17 01:27 PM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: moose1]
Jman1 Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 12/12/03
Originally Posted By: moose1
How does a team with so little success not show up? They should be starving.

Also I don't get why the OL is so bad. They weren't that bad last year and KU did not lose much, right? Why didn't they try other linemen on the right side. I get that they want to keep chemistry from practice, but when the play is that bad why not give someone else a chance?

I guess the question is where does KU go from here? If there is not any improvements then this is going to be a long season. I could see more of the kids that have orally committed going somewhere else. KU has to do something to get this turned around otherwise they will be going backwards from an already horrible place. With that in mind is there any chance of getting this thing turned around this season?


Exactly.

I would have put Baldwin in at right Tackle, for ol "Mince Meat" Frazier, and I would have started Stanley at start of the 2H. Also would have pulled "Toast" Torneden and maybe put in a better option , oh, I don't know, the 5th baton twirler on the right. Loneker is not DI level, either

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#2020347 - 09/10/17 01:40 PM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: Jman1]
EstebanBugatti Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 12/07/15
If the starting O-Line for Ohio isn't LT Adeniji LG Rhodes C Ribordy RG Tovi RT Baldwin, it will be even uglier than it was yesterday. Tovi and Baldwin have to be a huge upgrade over Hughes and Frazier. They can't possibly be any worse. A new O-Line coach should have been brought in for this season as well.

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#2020354 - 09/10/17 03:32 PM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: Kman_blue]
jayhawkfan0710 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 08/03/14
Loc: Southeast Kansas
It's never as good as it seems, and it's never as bad as it seems.

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#2020356 - 09/10/17 03:45 PM Re: The game we forgot to show up [Re: jayhawkfan0710]
Jman1 Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 12/12/03
NO, it's as bad as it seems, and is. Don't try to get philosophical here powderpuff

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