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#2018777 - 07/08/17 02:52 PM Offensive Tempo
pizzanbeer Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
What do you expect to see Meacham do with our offensive tempo? Since our LBs, CBs and Safetys don't have as much experience this season I expect to see him slow it down a little. That will give our defense some time to catch their breath. I don't think we can win a football track meet against TT.


Edited by pizzanbeer (07/08/17 03:28 PM)

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#2018781 - 07/08/17 04:56 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
I don't think he will slow down anything. He is all in on the up temp offense. I'm all in for it. Hopefully we have recruited well enough and matured enough to compete.
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#2018782 - 07/08/17 06:20 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Just whatever the defense dictates. We need to score often if we can.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2018786 - 07/08/17 07:26 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: 58hawk]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
We need to score often if we can.
I agree, score often if we can. If we win 59-57 all games this year, I will be happy.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2018787 - 07/08/17 07:39 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
I guess it depends on the offense. Our problem last year wasn't the pace (I believe we ranked 52nd).

We ranked 108th in three and outs. We went three and out on 25.56% of our drives. We had 38.89 percent of our drives end in three plays or less (without points) -119th place.

That's NEVER, EVER, EVER going to work for a winning team.

Link:
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2017/6...son-north-texas
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018788 - 07/08/17 08:22 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
pizzanbeer Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: dgless21
I guess it depends on the offense. Our problem last year wasn't the pace (I believe we ranked 52nd).

We ranked 108th in three and outs. We went three and out on 25.56% of our drives. We had 38.89 percent of our drives end in three plays or less (without points) -119th place.

That's NEVER, EVER, EVER going to work for a winning team.

Link:
https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2017/6...son-north-texas


Adjustedstats.com rates us 19th fastest in Time Per Offensive Play (TPP = 20.13 seconds) and 23rd in Adjusted Time Per Offensive Play (ATPP = 20.09 seconds) for the 2016 season. We ranked 4th in the Big 12 behind Baylor, Texas and TCU for TPP and ATPP. Where are you getting your 52nd ranking for pace?

http://www.adjustedstats.com/ratings-stats/cfbpace.php

I agree that it does not matter if the offense usually goes 3 and out. Let's hope the offense can sustain drives this season. If that is the case do you run the plays at a fast pace or do you slow down some to let you defense catch their breath?


Edited by pizzanbeer (07/08/17 09:06 PM)

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#2018789 - 07/08/17 09:24 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
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#2018792 - 07/08/17 11:23 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
pizzanbeer Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
I checked the spreadsheet attached to the article and those stats are not for the whole season. The date of the article is Nov. 7th so the stats are good through that date. The stats I linked are for the whole season minus the Univ. of Rhode Island stats because URI is not an FBS school.

Provided we can sustain drives do you think Meacham slows down the pace to give the KU defense more of a rest?

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#2018793 - 07/09/17 02:50 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
EstebanBugatti Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 12/07/15
Go as fast as possible so the other team's defense can't catch their breath. The best way to help our D is to score as many points as they possibly can.

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#2018794 - 07/09/17 06:29 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: EstebanBugatti]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: EstebanBugatti
Go as fast as possible so the other team's defense can't catch their breath. The best way to help our D is to score as many points as they possibly can.
Alabama and Stanford slowed down the pace between plays ranking 82nd and 128th, respectively. So speeding up the offensive pace as you propose, is to do what's contrary at two pretty good football programs. According to the linky document provided above. Stanford ranked dead last in the P5 chart details btw.
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Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2018795 - 07/09/17 06:37 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: EstebanBugatti]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: EstebanBugatti
Go as fast as possible so the other team's defense can't catch their breath. The best way to help our D is to score as many points as they possibly can.


That only works if you can consistently get 1st downs. Otherwise, it is our defense that won't be able to catch their breath.
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I'm the quickest they is
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#2018797 - 07/09/17 11:17 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Provided we can sustain drives do you think Meacham slows down the pace to give the KU defense more of a rest?


I'd say no. No matter which site you look at, TCU (with Meacham OC) was right there with us on pace.

We have less talent than most of the big 12 (similar to TCU). Giving the opposing defense a chance to rest, substitute, call plays, etc doesn't really benefit our offense.

We want to help our defense, sure, but if they're not good enough to help us win the game, it usually won't matter whether the offense plays fast or slow. Much like the offense has to get first downs, defense just has to get stops. Go out, make three consecutive plays, go sit back down with some gatorade.

Bowen, Perry, Woodfin, etc. know our offensive mindset. Get the defense prepared for it.
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018798 - 07/09/17 12:29 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Provided we can sustain drives do you think Meacham slows down the pace to give the KU defense more of a rest?


I'd say no. No matter which site you look at, TCU (with Meacham OC) was right there with us on pace.

We have less talent than most of the big 12 (similar to TCU). Giving the opposing defense a chance to rest, substitute, call plays, etc doesn't really benefit our offense.

We want to help our defense, sure, but if they're not good enough to help us win the game, it usually won't matter whether the offense plays fast or slow. Much like the offense has to get first downs, defense just has to get stops. Go out, make three consecutive plays, go sit back down with some gatorade.

Bowen, Perry, Woodfin, etc. know our offensive mindset. Get the defense prepared for it.
If our offense is slower, then our d gets a breather. I don't want to get the coach fired after losing sooner than later. Give the guy a break!!
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2018799 - 07/09/17 01:24 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
You're an idiot.
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018800 - 07/09/17 02:39 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: JimWest]
vmlb Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 11/25/06
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: EstebanBugatti
Go as fast as possible so the other team's defense can't catch their breath. The best way to help our D is to score as many points as they possibly can.


That only works if you can consistently get 1st downs. Otherwise, it is our defense that won't be able to catch their breath.

He!! has frozen over, cause I'm agreeing with Jimmy.

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#2018801 - 07/09/17 09:04 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: KUCO_VOC]
pizzanbeer Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Beaty patterns his offense after Leach and Washington State ranks 77th fastest at Adjusted Time Per Offensive Play at 23.49 seconds. That is 3.5 seconds slower per offensive play than KU. The FBS median is Notre Dame at 22.50 seconds. Meacham only needs to slow it down by a few seconds per play to bring us towards Washington State and the FBS median.

The reason this is a concern this season is because our offense finally has improved enough to sustain drives while our defensive secondary has less experience. Beaty has a much different personnel situation than he did the past 2 seasons from a talent and experience perspective. I expect him and Meacham to make adjustments to offensive pace based on that. I am sure Bowen and Perry also have input since this conversation involves how fast their defense goes back out on the field.

I still see Meacham running fast pace at the start of the game, start of the 2nd half and more when we have home field advantage. I just think Meacham slows down the pace over the course of the season so it averages out more towards the median. We don't have deep enough talent and experience in our defensive secondary to run the offense at laser pace in the pass happy Big 12.



Edited by pizzanbeer (07/09/17 11:42 PM)

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#2018803 - 07/09/17 10:27 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21
idiot.
asshat
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Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2018804 - 07/09/17 10:32 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Beaty patterns his offense after Leach and Washington State ranks 77th fastest at Adjusted Time Per Offensive Play at 23.49 seconds. That is 3.5 seconds slower per offensive play than KU. The FBS median is Notre Dame at 22.50 seconds. Meacham only needs to slow it down by a few seconds per play to bring us towards Washington State and the FBS median.

The reason this is a concern this season is because our offense finally has improved enough to sustain drives while our defensive secondary has less experience. Beaty has a much different personnel situation than he did the past 2 seasons from a talent and experience perspective. I expect him and Meacham to make adjustments to offensive pace based on that. I am sure Bowen and Perry also have input since this conversation involves how fast their defense goes back out on the field.


After analyzing the asshat's data above, I also think a few more seconds play is a desirable thing to shoot for.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2018805 - 07/10/17 12:05 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Beaty patterns his offense after Leach and Washington State ranks 77th fastest at Adjusted Time Per Offensive Play at 23.49 seconds. That is 3.5 seconds slower per offensive play than KU. The FBS median is Notre Dame at 22.50 seconds. Meacham only needs to slow it down by a few seconds per play to bring us towards Washington State and the FBS median.

The reason this is a concern this season is because our offense finally has improved enough to sustain drives while our defensive secondary has less experience. Beaty has a much different personnel situation than he did the past 2 seasons from a talent and experience perspective. I expect him and Meacham to make adjustments to offensive pace based on that. I am sure Bowen and Perry also have input since this conversation involves how fast their defense goes back out on the field.

I still see Meacham running fast pace at the start of the game, start of the 2nd half and more when we have home field advantage. I just think Meacham slows down the pace over the course of the season so it averages out more towards the median.


Nothing you're saying is wrong.

The point is still efficiency. 3.5 seconds per play doesn't really change much if you're talking about three plays and a punt. The teams that excel at fast paces don't go three and out (Like Clemson).

I don't disagree that the defense improves with rest. The question becomes what is gained and lost in those extra 3.5 seconds that the offense delays and opposing defense prepares. It ultimately becomes a cost benefit analysis.

With the stats from last year for our offense and Meacham's TCU offense, I just don't see it changing much.

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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018812 - 07/10/17 12:49 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
kylecof11 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Go fast, fast, fast for 4 quarters and for 12 (maybe 13) games.

The defense will be practicing that exact way because that's how a majority of the teams in the conference play.

The depth is the best that it's been in the last 5+ years.
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#2018822 - 07/11/17 10:37 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
vmlb Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 11/25/06
If you have a team that is both superior in athletic ability and depth, then (like in basketball) you want to have more plays per game. We are not there yet. Especially the depth part. Our number ones might match up evenly with most opponents, but when you get to the two, three, and four deep on the depth chart, we don't. Fewer plays per game is what is needed to possibly win.

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#2018823 - 07/12/17 08:15 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
Is that why we won games with Mangino? We ranked ~34th in time per play in 2007 (Orange Bowl), ~25th in 2008 (Insight Bowl), and ~25th in 2009.

We didn't slow it down then. We weren't more athletic than everyone. We didn't have more depth.

What happened when Gill and Weis slowed it down?
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018832 - 07/12/17 09:33 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
kylecof11 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Is that why we won games with Mangino? We ranked ~34th in time per play in 2007 (Orange Bowl), ~25th in 2008 (Insight Bowl), and ~25th in 2009.

We didn't slow it down then. We weren't more athletic than everyone. We didn't have more depth.

What happened when Gill and Weis slowed it down?


YES!
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It's always a GREAT day to be a JAYHAWK

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#2018834 - 07/12/17 11:15 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Is that why we won games with Mangino? We ranked ~34th in time per play in 2007 (Orange Bowl), ~25th in 2008 (Insight Bowl), and ~25th in 2009.

We didn't slow it down then. We weren't more athletic than everyone. We didn't have more depth.

What happened when Gill and Weis slowed it down?
I'm sure the BG12 was all the same during MM's era in football at Kansas. All the same teams being ranked, etc. Right?
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2018835 - 07/12/17 11:51 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
No. The Big 12 is not the same.

No. The same teams aren't ranked.

No. I don't know what your "etc." alludes to.

No. You're not right.
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018836 - 07/12/17 12:18 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: KUCO_VOC]
kylecof11 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Is that why we won games with Mangino? We ranked ~34th in time per play in 2007 (Orange Bowl), ~25th in 2008 (Insight Bowl), and ~25th in 2009.

We didn't slow it down then. We weren't more athletic than everyone. We didn't have more depth.

What happened when Gill and Weis slowed it down?
I'm sure the BG12 was all the same during MM's era in football at Kansas. All the same teams being ranked, etc. Right?


wut?
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It's always a GREAT day to be a JAYHAWK

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#2018838 - 07/12/17 01:24 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
Glad I'm not the only one that struggled to decipher what he/she was trying to say.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018839 - 07/12/17 01:52 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21
No. The Big 12 is not the same.

No. The same teams aren't ranked.

No. I don't know what your "etc." alludes to.

No. You're not right.
My point exactly A.H. Let go of MM stats that were from a different era. Use today's stats from today's teams to get the direction needed to improve on the dumpster fire. It's different today, hence CW is no longer coach...
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2018840 - 07/12/17 02:01 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
kylecof11 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Let's look at the Final Rankings for Big12 teams in the BCS in 2007 compared to that of 2016 Final Rankings..

2007 BCS
OU 4
MU 6
KU 8
UT 19
Future Big 12 Member WVU 9
2016 CFP Final Rankings
OU 7
oSu 12
WVU 16

The only consistent teams are OU (Being a top 10 team) and WVU (Who was a Big East member in 07)

KU played 3 top 25 teams in 2007, and have 4 likely Pre-Season top 25 teams on this year's schedule. I mean there's not much difference in the conferences from 2007 to 2017 in terms of talent. The only difference is that KU plays all the teams in the conference instead of the north teams and 3 south teams every year.
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It's always a GREAT day to be a JAYHAWK

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#2018841 - 07/12/17 02:26 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: KUCO_VOC]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
My point exactly A.H. Let go of MM stats that were from a different era. Use today's stats from today's teams to get the direction needed to improve on the dumpster fire. It's different today, hence CW is no longer coach...


Today's team hasn't played a game yet, so I don't understand how we'd use those stats.

Or are you pulling pace numbers from the spring game? If so, please share.
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018846 - 07/12/17 04:44 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
My point exactly A.H. Let go of MM stats that were from a different era. Use today's stats from today's teams to get the direction needed to improve on the dumpster fire. It's different today, hence CW is no longer coach...


Today's team hasn't played a game yet, so I don't understand how we'd use those stats.

Or are you pulling pace numbers from the spring game? If so, please share.
"today's" can mean modern era (2015-6) vs MM (2007-8). You decide which definition you prefer before spouting off unsupported "facts". Got a link on your rankings AH?
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2018849 - 07/12/17 05:04 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
I don't know which rankings you're requesting, so no, I cannot provide a link.

I do appreciate that you idolize me so much that you have continued using my insult. You even got lazy and abbreviated it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I suppose.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018851 - 07/12/17 05:19 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: KUCO_VOC]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Is that why we won games with Mangino? We ranked ~34th in time per play in 2007 (Orange Bowl), ~25th in 2008 (Insight Bowl), and ~25th in 2009.

We didn't slow it down then. We weren't more athletic than everyone. We didn't have more depth.

What happened when Gill and Weis slowed it down?
I'm sure the BG12 was all the same during MM's era in football at Kansas. All the same teams being ranked, etc. Right?
actually it was easier because there were two divisions so you didn't play everyone.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2018856 - 07/12/17 05:59 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
vmlb Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 11/25/06
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Is that why we won games with Mangino? We ranked ~34th in time per play in 2007 (Orange Bowl), ~25th in 2008 (Insight Bowl), and ~25th in 2009.

We didn't slow it down then. We weren't more athletic than everyone. We didn't have more depth.

What happened when Gill and Weis slowed it down?


Do you believe we had inferior talent when MM won? Also less depth?
Who did we beat the OB year that had more talent and depth? Other then VT, probably none.

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#2018857 - 07/12/17 06:43 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
I don't think we were more talented or deeper than the majority of the teams we played. I certainly don't think I would've thought that in the offseason leading up to 2007.
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018861 - 07/12/17 09:53 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: vmlb]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: vmlb
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Is that why we won games with Mangino? We ranked ~34th in time per play in 2007 (Orange Bowl), ~25th in 2008 (Insight Bowl), and ~25th in 2009.

We didn't slow it down then. We weren't more athletic than everyone. We didn't have more depth.

What happened when Gill and Weis slowed it down?


Do you believe we had inferior talent when MM won? Also less depth?
Who did we beat the OB year that had more talent and depth? Other then VT, probably none.
I agree. AH can't produce any supports or links. We should just accept
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#2018864 - 07/12/17 10:24 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
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#2018868 - 07/13/17 01:00 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
pizzanbeer Online   content
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: dgless21
I don't disagree that the defense improves with rest. The question becomes what is gained and lost in those extra 3.5 seconds that the offense delays and opposing defense prepares. It ultimately becomes a cost benefit analysis.

With the stats from last year for our offense and Meacham's TCU offense, I just don't see it changing much.



You agree that there is benefit in resting the defense. Then you say it becomes a cost benefit analysis but you don't provide any analysis. What is your point?

Then you say well Beaty and Meacham ran high tempo offenses last year so that means they won't change. However once again you don't provide any analysis of the offensive and defensive personnel they had last year compared to what they have this year. The position you are taking is too superficial to take it seriously.

I am not saying we never use high tempo offense. We should use it when it is to our benefit but not so much that it wears out our thin defensive secondary.


Edited by pizzanbeer (07/13/17 01:04 AM)

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#2018875 - 07/13/17 09:11 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Fuzzy's Taco Shop
The explanation, from my understanding, is that we are less talented than many of the teams we play. If that's the case, by slowing down the offense, it would seem we are taking away the offense's advantage by allowing opposing defenses more time to call plays and get in position. Considering how bad our offense was last year, it needed every advantage it could get--including those 3.5 seconds.

There is no clear right answer that you can identify from the stats that I've seen. You have to pick your poison. Give your offense an advantage and defense a disadvantage, or give your defense an advantage and take an advantage from your offense. There should be a pace that maximizes the overall output for both. It is above my pay-grade to determine what pace that is, but nothing that has been posted suggests a slower pace helps us win games anymore than a fast pace.

My belief about us not changing the offense is not an absolute, and I wasn't intending for it to be one. However, my thought process was this: Meacham has had success with his offense at TCU. He continually has a high ranked passing offense (see Keegan's article), and he does it with a fast pace. Why would we bring in a new, successful OC and ask him to change his pace/play style?

I think your last comment is fairly obvious. We should use the offense that's most to our benefit. Considering your criticism of my lack of analysis, where is the analysis that suggests when it is and isn't beneficial? How do you determine that?
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2018885 - 07/13/17 11:58 AM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21
The explanation, from my understanding, is that we are less talented than many of the teams we play. If that's the case, by slowing down the offense, it would seem we are taking away the offense's advantage by allowing opposing defenses more time to call plays and get in position. Considering how bad our offense was last year, it needed every advantage it could get--including those 3.5 seconds.

There is no clear right answer that you can identify from the stats that I've seen. You have to pick your poison. Give your offense an advantage and defense a disadvantage, or give your defense an advantage and take an advantage from your offense. There should be a pace that maximizes the overall output for both. It is above my pay-grade to determine what pace that is, but nothing that has been posted suggests a slower pace helps us win games anymore than a fast pace.

My belief about us not changing the offense is not an absolute, and I wasn't intending for it to be one. However, my thought process was this: Meacham has had success with his offense at TCU. He continually has a high ranked passing offense (see Keegan's article), and he does it with a fast pace. Why would we bring in a new, successful OC and ask him to change his pace/play style?

I think your last comment is fairly obvious. We should use the offense that's most to our benefit. Considering your criticism of my lack of analysis, where is the analysis that suggests when it is and isn't beneficial? How do you determine that?
I have pointed to the slower pace as better, based upon the win/loss records of two pretty decent schools already.
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#2018889 - 07/13/17 01:54 PM Re: Offensive Tempo [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Pace isn't as important as getting at least a couple of 1st downs per possession IMHO.

I think we all know the advantages and disadvantages of each style of play, i.e. fast pace vs. slow pace. But if you go 3 and out taking the entire 40 second play clock per down you still only used up a little less than 3 minutes of game clock and potentially put your D on their heals. If you go fast and take about 20.5 seconds per down, but you also get 2 or 3 1st downs you get better field position as well as taking up at a minimum of 2 1/2 minutes or nearly the same amount of time as if you went slow and went 3 and out.

I think the KU O will have a lot less 3 and outs this year which will be the biggest benefit to our D and I suspect Meacham will have the O going at a quick pace. It may not be at a TTech or Baylor or OkieSt.(from a few years ago) fast, but I bet it'll still be near the top 1/4 of the country in pace.
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