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#2018430 - 06/24/17 06:34 PM Tight End vs H-Back
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Rivals shows Beaty has not offered a TE in this class. In the last class he recruited Tabor to play H-back. Beaty also mentioned that Matthews would play some H-back. My understanding of H-back is the player lines up in a slot position and plays somewhat like a TE but a lighter and quicker version. Kind of a cross between a TE and a FB. Beaty still has Johnson this season when he wants to go with a traditional TE.

I like the added flexibility of an H-back but I am not sure how much Meacham will use the position in the offense. Meacham did not have his QB throw to the TE much at TCU last season. I like that an H-back gives the RB a faster blocker running to the outside. My main concern is whether an H-back will be big enough to help block a DE or a blitzing LB. I am curious what everyone thinks about using an H back instead of a TE. Do you think Meacham will use an H-back more as a faster blocker for running plays or as a faster TE for passing plays?

Here is some more information about the H-back position and how it works in a spread offense. Breaking Down What the H-back is All About article.


Edited by pizzanbeer (06/24/17 09:21 PM)

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#2018648 - 07/01/17 01:26 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
I was thinking about the new recruits coming in and Beaty has 6 of them that could play H-back. The roster already designates Quinton McQuillan and Sam Schroeder as H-backs. Beaty also recruited Kashe Boatner as a preferred walk on at H-back. He also mentioned Kenyon Tabor and Octavius Matthews would play at H-back. Cooper Root played TE in HS and I believe Kman said Root could see some time at H-back. Schroeder, Boatner and Root also played LB in HS and they all are in the 6'1", 220 range so I expect they will be able to deliver a solid block. It will be interesting to watch Meacham work that position into the offense. H-back is going to be the equivalent of a Swiss army knife.


Edited by pizzanbeer (07/01/17 02:06 AM)

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#2018679 - 07/02/17 07:35 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Yeah, it does look like they plan on using multiple types of players in the H-back role. I've been wondering ever since last year's class who's pushed this increased role with multiple type guys in the offense. Was it incoming OC Meacham or HC Beaty? Really seems like they're planning on having the H-Back position as almost a key on how the entire O may run. They look to be treating the position as kind of a combination TE/FB/WR/RB jack of all trades, but the most important thing to them it looks like is they must be athletic.

And on a side note, I believe Kashe Boatner will be tried out on D at LB first. Kid has some really good instincts on D.
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#2018756 - 07/07/17 08:51 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
kylecof11 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
I was thinking about the new recruits coming in and Beaty has 6 of them that could play H-back. The roster already designates Quinton McQuillan and Sam Schroeder as H-backs. Beaty also recruited Kashe Boatner as a preferred walk on at H-back. He also mentioned Kenyon Tabor and Octavius Matthews would play at H-back. Cooper Root played TE in HS and I believe Kman said Root could see some time at H-back. Schroeder, Boatner and Root also played LB in HS and they all are in the 6'1", 220 range so I expect they will be able to deliver a solid block. It will be interesting to watch Meacham work that position into the offense. H-back is going to be the equivalent of a Swiss army knife.


Speaking of Matthews, I was told that he has some sort of heart condition and has not been cleared to play yet by doctors. Don't know how reliable this source is, but it is something to keep an eye on.
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#2018760 - 07/07/17 10:35 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Lawrence Beer Co.
I had heard he was being held back for medical concerns, but I hadn't heard any specifics.

Also read on Phog that Baldwin has some off the field concerns--no idea if that's academic, behavior, criminal, or otherwise, though.
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#2018761 - 07/07/17 12:09 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: dgless21]
kylecof11 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: dgless21
I had heard he was being held back for medical concerns, but I hadn't heard any specifics.

Also read on Phog that Baldwin has some off the field concerns--no idea if that's academic, behavior, criminal, or otherwise, though.



Digging a bit deeper, it seems as though he may not be cleared at all. He could get cleared to play somewhere else, but doctors that deal with the team will not clear him at this time. Tough ordeal for sure.

But on Baldwin, I've heard the same. That he is struggling a bit off the field, but when he is in workouts and on the field, he is one of the top guys on the line.


Edited by kylecof11 (07/07/17 12:12 PM)
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#2018776 - 07/08/17 02:38 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Yeah, it does look like they plan on using multiple types of players in the H-back role. I've been wondering ever since last year's class who's pushed this increased role with multiple type guys in the offense. Was it incoming OC Meacham or HC Beaty? Really seems like they're planning on having the H-Back position as almost a key on how the entire O may run. They look to be treating the position as kind of a combination TE/FB/WR/RB jack of all trades, but the most important thing to them it looks like is they must be athletic.

And on a side note, I believe Kashe Boatner will be tried out on D at LB first. Kid has some really good instincts on D.


I bet Beaty pushed H-back because it was in the recruiting plans before Beaty knew Meacham was coming to KU. Using an H-back will give us more productivity than a TE so it should have been easy for Beaty to sell Meacham on the idea. Johnson did not catch many passes last season so it's not like Beaty risks losing a lot of productivity by going with an H-back. Beaty probably expects to see more yards after the catch from an H-back compared to a TE. Johnson still gets playing time to help with blocking when the other team has a dominant DE. Then on short passing plays Meacham can rotate in a quicker H-back.

Another benefit is that it makes our offense less predictable. It gives the QB more opportunity for short throws to the middle of the field instead of being so predictable with all short throws going to the outside.

Our personnel on OL also dictates the change from TE to H-back. Yenser has recruited lighter OTs with more mobility to block DEs. Since our OTs don't need as much blocking support from a TE it gives Meacham more opportunities to rotate an H-back into the game. The other thing to consider is our OL is not big enough to run up the middle. Meacham will need to call more running plays to the outside. Using an H-back will give Meacham a run blocker that is more mobile than a TE for those running plays.


Edited by pizzanbeer (07/08/17 03:27 PM)

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#2018783 - 07/08/17 06:21 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Wow, you're really fixated on this Hback. We have plenty of other stuff to worry about.
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#2018784 - 07/08/17 06:35 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: 58hawk]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Wow, you're really fixated on this Hback. We have plenty of other stuff to worry about.


H-back could fix a lot of our offensive problems and it's a new strategy. What else is there to talk about in the off season? Most other topics are either worn out or covered by the LJW.


Edited by pizzanbeer (07/08/17 09:05 PM)

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#2018790 - 07/08/17 09:38 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
A friend of mine was having a conversation with Jace Sternberger's Dad about him transferring to NEO. Dad was wanting him to stay at KU but Jace saw that due to the Hback position that he was not going to get much playing time and he wanted to play so they went along with him.

It's a wonderful education that KU has to offer these young people. But in many of their minds the ability to play outweighs the great education.
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#2018791 - 07/08/17 09:41 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: bigdogjac]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: bigdogjac
It's a wonderful education that KU has to offer these young people. But in many of their minds the ability to play outweighs the great education.


Let's be real here. None of them get real degrees, learn anything, or even go to class.
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#2018802 - 07/09/17 09:22 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: JimWest]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
If Baldwin and Matthews can't play then it changes how effective H-back can be in the offense. Let's say Baldwin can't make grades and is not eligible for the season then Beaty would need more blocking support from Johnson. That means less plays for the H-back. K-man mentioned that the ideal H-back is extremely athletic so Matthews fits well into that role. If Matthews can't play due to health reasons then we lose one of our best options at H-back.

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#2018806 - 07/10/17 08:59 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Lawrence Beer Co.
Keegan still has Matthews factoring in per his latest article--for what it's worth.

"...and additions at running back, Dom Williams and Octavius Matthews, could more than compensate for the loss of Ke’aun Kinner, who will be missed."
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#2018809 - 07/10/17 12:24 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
I bet Beaty pushed H-back because it was in the recruiting plans before Beaty knew Meacham was coming to KU. Using an H-back will give us more productivity than a TE so it should have been easy for Beaty to sell Meacham on the idea. Johnson did not catch many passes last season so it's not like Beaty risks losing a lot of productivity by going with an H-back. Beaty probably expects to see more yards after the catch from an H-back compared to a TE. Johnson still gets playing time to help with blocking when the other team has a dominant DE. Then on short passing plays Meacham can rotate in a quicker H-back.

Another benefit is that it makes our offense less predictable. It gives the QB more opportunity for short throws to the middle of the field instead of being so predictable with all short throws going to the outside.

Our personnel on OL also dictates the change from TE to H-back. Yenser has recruited lighter OTs with more mobility to block DEs. Since our OTs don't need as much blocking support from a TE it gives Meacham more opportunities to rotate an H-back into the game. The other thing to consider is our OL is not big enough to run up the middle. Meacham will need to call more running plays to the outside. Using an H-back will give Meacham a run blocker that is more mobile than a TE for those running plays.
Coach Beaty may have planned on using H-backs more than a TE and began recruiting towards that goal, but they went after a couple more H-back types after Meacham got hired. Kind of makes me think Meacham pushed for it even more than coach Beaty was planning. Then again, Johnson was a lot more involved with the catching passes in the spring game than he was in any game last year. Could be that Meacham is flexible enough with his O philosophy that he enhanced the role of the TE when he saw how talented Johnson is.

Good point about our OT's. We've got a potential 1st team all-conference/AA candidate guy at LT who's now 30lbs. bigger than last year and Baldwin looks to be a really solid RT assuming the rumor floating around isn't true. That would lessen the need for a TE lined up traditionally off tackle to help with blocking. I'm not sure if our OL isn't big enough to run up the middle on people. I think it's more a lack of experience and development to this point. Most OL guys take 3 years to develop enough to contribute. Running up the middle may be something we struggle with this year, but I think we'll keep trying to establish it to help keep D's honest as well as develop our guys to become more efficient at it.

The big positive the H-back I think potentially gives us is that it puts the D on their heals in terms of assignments. The H-back could line up at any number of spots which causes the D to adjust their assignments some. Also, the great variety of athletic guys it looks like we potentially will be playing at H-back could create some big mismatches with the D. I think this is why they want guys who are very athletic too, so they can appear to a D more like a traditional FB or TE or even WR type guy, but he'll have the athleticism to run routes, or block, or rush that the D wouldn't typically expect. That enhances mismatches and could further confuse the D.

I'm interested in who wins out in the competition to get into the rotation at the H-back spot. How many different types of players are they going to be, but I also think Meacham is flexible and adaptive enough with his O that he'll take advantage of guys like Johnson at TE who can make plays instead of using the H-back most all the time like I think it looks like they want to do in the future.
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"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2018810 - 07/10/17 12:31 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: dgless21]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Keegan still has Matthews factoring in per his latest article--for what it's worth.

"...and additions at running back, Dom Williams and Octavius Matthews, could more than compensate for the loss of Ke’aun Kinner, who will be missed."
I haven't heard anything to confirm the Matthews rumor. Then again, if he's got a medical issue it could be nobody is going to say a thing until the week before our first game or so and they'd keep it very hush hush. With how previous medical conditions were handled, my hunch is they may have identified something but it's something that can be corrected so they're not saying a thing about it. Otherwise, I think there'd be more info floating around about it and we'd officially hear something sooner rather than later.
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#2018869 - 07/13/17 01:40 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/03/09
Kman I think you are on the money with your ideas on recruiting at H-back and Beaty and Meacham being on the same page. It looks like we agree that our OT situation makes going to H-back more feasible. I hope you are right about being able to run up the middle but based on the last 2 seasons I don't expect much in that area. Maybe the addition of Hannon and Tovi get us some improvement there. I agree on your points about H-back setting up some mismatches for the defense. That is why I want to see Matthews at H-back if he is able to play this season.

Meacham seems to thrive on creative offensive schemes so this H-back position should work well for him. I imagine Meacham is taking a very active role in figuring out how the H-back will work in the running game. Patterson's main criticism of the TCU offense last season was the inability to run the ball. I bet that caused Meacham to reconsider how he uses the running game in his offense for this season.


Edited by pizzanbeer (07/13/17 02:10 AM)

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#2018882 - 07/13/17 11:27 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Just curious, did he use the H-back at TCU?
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KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2018886 - 07/13/17 12:07 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
kylecof11 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
They used Turpin as a H-Back last year. He's their fantastic return guy. Small guy. 5ft9 weighing 155lbs.

30 catches for 295 yards for 5th on the team and 9 carries for 84 yards.
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#2018891 - 07/13/17 02:27 PM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
I hope you are right about being able to run up the middle but based on the last 2 seasons I don't expect much in that area. Maybe the addition of Hannon and Tovi get us some improvement there.
I think our problem of running up the middle the last 2 years comes down to 2 main things, lack of depth/experience(that roster thing I keep bringing up with certain posters) on OL and the other was predictability. We just didn't have enough OL guys over the past 2 years to have an effective run blocking OL. Hell, we barely had enough guys to have 5 starters in 2015 and barely had enough for a 2 deep last year.We also had little to no experience to speak of and a lot of the experience was with guys who wouldn't have been in our 2 deep had we had a full roster.

We also ran a lot of our running plays at predictable times over the past 2 years IMHO. Yeah, we ran them out of multiple formations, but we ran them in predictable circumstances a lot of the time too. The D's clued in to that tendency and were ready for those run plays despite the formation being different. To be fair though, even then we had the play working sometimes until someone missed an assignment they were in position to make. Most often it was only 1 guy who'd missed his assignment and it would blpw the play up. Not the same 1 guy, but different guys on different plays and that goes back to lack of depth and experience.

As for guys I think who'll step up at the OG positions, I expect Tovi to have a very positive impact here. He may even win a starting spot. Not sure about Hannon. He could add quality depth, but if he wins a starting spot that could be a bad sign for the rest of our OG's. I also expect Bragg to make a step forward this year. A few of the other guys are question marks who typically at this point in their college careers either make noticeable improvement from last year and become solid to good OL, or they reveal they are who they are and won't typically make much improvement from where they were last year.

I think the coaches are worried about that latter scenario possibly being the case with a few who seemed to take steps backward last year after showing signs of promise in their 1st year. Then again, these guys would have never been playing in their 1st year here if we hadn't had such a depleted roster and were desperate to field an OL of any kind. so it's hard to say how they'll do this year.
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"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2018980 - 07/17/17 08:04 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: dgless21]
kylecof11 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: dgless21
I had heard he was being held back for medical concerns, but I hadn't heard any specifics.

Also read on Phog that Baldwin has some off the field concerns--no idea if that's academic, behavior, criminal, or otherwise, though.



I've now heard that Baldwin has been suspended indefinitely. Had been walking on thin ice for a while now, showed up late to a conditioning session and refused to do the punishment for showing up late. Beaty and Woodfin conversed and chose suspending him. Hopefully he comes back, but it seems like he has to do a lot of things right.


Edited by kylecof11 (07/17/17 08:05 AM)
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#2018984 - 07/17/17 09:03 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Lawrence Beer Co.
Matthews made it on to the KU Athletics updated roster.

Couple of new names, Quiv with a new number, no one missing from my once over.

Baldwin seems to keep getting in his own way from the sounds of it.
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#2018991 - 07/17/17 11:46 AM Re: Tight End vs H-Back [Re: kylecof11]
KUCO_VOC Online   happy
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: kylecof11
Originally Posted By: dgless21
I had heard he was being held back for medical concerns, but I hadn't heard any specifics.

Also read on Phog that Baldwin has some off the field concerns--no idea if that's academic, behavior, criminal, or otherwise, though.



I've now heard that Baldwin has been suspended indefinitely. Had been walking on thin ice for a while now, showed up late to a conditioning session and refused to do the punishment for showing up late. Beaty and Woodfin conversed and chose suspending him. Hopefully he comes back, but it seems like he has to do a lot of things right.

Charles Baldwin, a 5 star tackle transfer from Alabama, was considered the #1 JUCO recruit in 2016. Beaty had to have been desperate to give this kid a second, third chance at college ball. Several posters here tried to adjust the recruiting team rankings back then based upon getting this kid here, but as I always say, wait for them to show up on the field and in class. Hope he can play at North Texas someday IMO.
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