Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#2016578 - 04/03/17 11:10 PM Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
It really irks me how some smack so hard on Self as being a bad NCAA Tourney coach. The record says differently! I've updated some Tourney stats posted a year ago and have added information to, now for the past 14 years, the time that Self has been at Kansas, for five of the top active coaches: Self, Calipari, Coach K and Roy, plus Izzo as some consider him a great tourney coach:

Games won/loss:
Self -- 33-13
Cal.-- 40-11 (Including 5 wins vacated by NCAA)
C. K.--31-12
Roy -- 43-10
Izzo -- 28-14

Winning percentage:
Self -- .717
Cal -- .784 (.778 excl. 5 wins vacated by NCAA)
C.K.-- .721
Roy -- .808
Izzo -- .667
Four coaches are above .700 which is nothing to sneeze at (Izzo below .700).

Years in the Tourney the past 14 years:
Self -- 14
Cal -- 12 (including one year vacated by NCAA)
C.K.-- 14
Roy -- 13
Izzo -- 14
Calipari went to the NIT twice and Roy once during this time period. NITs do not reflect well upon a resume unless you're TCU. And Cal had a year vacated, again a bad reflection.

Championships won:
Self -- 1
Cal -- 1
C.K.-- 2
Roy -- 3
Izzo-- 0
Some say championships are what count. In this time period, three (except for Izzo) are within one of each other, with Roy stepping up to a lead of two over Self and Cal. That gives him a slight edge over the others.

The furthest each coach has gone each year in the tournament:
Coach–Champs–F. 2—F. 4–E. 8–S. 16–R. 32–R. 64
Self............1.........1........0.......5.......2.......3.........2
Cal.............1.........2........2.......4.......1.......2.........0
Coach K.....2.........0........1.......1.......5.......2.........3
Roy............3.........1........1........3......3.......2..........0
Izzo............0.........1........3........1......3.......3..........3
(Roy@KU...0.........2........2........1......4.......5..........0 –14 years)

Another measure is how many times did a coach not make the tournament, leave the tournament during the first three rounds or make it into one of the final three rounds?

Coach — final 3–First 3–Didn’t make T.
Self ............ 7 .......... 7 .............. 0
Cal ............. 9 ...........3 .............. 2
Coach K ..... 4 ........ 10 .............. 0
Roy ............ 8 .......... 5 .............. 1
Izzo ............ 5 .......... 9 .............. 0
(Roy@ KU... 5 .......... 9 .............. 0)

Let the record speak for itself, Self measures up well with the other four coaches. Yes, we would liked to have seen him do better. But the fans of the other teams would also like to have seen their coach/team do better. Each of these coaches have had similar equally good and bad tournaments. The bottom line--Self is NOT a bad NCAA Tourney coach when compared to these other four top notch coaches. When you throw in the season records, Self measures up even better, top # of wins, top win %, top conf. titles and 2nd in conf. tourney wins. It shows that he is a top notch coach.

Season Records:
Coach----Won/Loss—%– Conf. Titles–Conf. Tourney
Self..........416—87....827.........13..................7
Cal...........394—90....814...........9..................8 (incl. vac. record)
Coach K...409—97....808...........3..................6
Roy..........400-115.....777...........8..................3
Izzo..........356-156.....693..........3..................3
(Roy/KU...418-101.....805...........9..................4 – 15 years)

Coaches with top percentage of wins for all seasons with over 550 total wins to date from official NCAA records:
Rupp ........ .822 Started at Kentucky
Wooden .... .804 Two years at Indiana St. then UCLA
Williams ... .786 Started at Kansas
Tarkanian . .784 All in non major power conferences (3)
Smith ....... .776 Started at UNC
Calipari .... .773 UMass, Memphis, Kentucky
Self ......... .764 ORU, Tulsa, Illinois, Kansas (lst 2 rebuilders)
Coach K .. .764 Five years at Army then Duke

No coach began in as big a hole as Self at ORU, a major rebuilding job as was Tulsa. Remove just his first two season, 16-38 and he would have a .798 win percentage for 3rd place to date. Playing 3 games per year for the next 10-12 years and winning at his current rate at Kansas (.827), Self would either tie Tarkanian or move slightly ahead of him. Roy and coach K percentages aren’t going to change much. Calipari’s very well could go up (three years older than Self).

Final Thoughts – Anyone willing to trade Roy’s KU record, season or tourney, with Bill’s? I wouldn’t! In spite of our tremendous basketball tradition, second to none, KU probably has a slight recruiting disadvantage with UK, UNC and Duke. This is due primarily to location. Don’t shoot me, I’m a died in the wool Kansan, but my honest opinion. Would any of the other coaches have done better at KU than Self during the season or tournament? Roy didn’t. Doubt if Cal, K and Izzo would have either. And the icing on the cake – Self is now a Hall of Fame Coach! He joins the list along with the other four we’ve been comparing. Bottom line, Self is a top notch coach and a rare jewel of a coach. We are very fortunate to have him.

Top
#2016579 - 04/03/17 11:17 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Uggh. Who you trying to convince? Yourself. Everybody knows Bill is a great coach who unfortunately sucks in Elite 8 games be it bad luck...cold shooting...nerves..whatever..No need to make an essay type post to prove a needless point. Is this what happens when one gets ancient. Rambling on trying to prove already known facts.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016581 - 04/03/17 11:34 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Oh and Bill never coached Indiana. ..lol
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016582 - 04/03/17 11:59 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Uggh. Who you trying to convince? Yourself. Everybody knows Bill is a great coach who unfortunately sucks in Elite 8 games be it bad luck...cold shooting...nerves..whatever..No need to make an essay type post to prove a needless point. Is this what happens when one gets ancient. Rambling on trying to prove already known facts.


You must spend more time on another board other than this one. I've seen numerous times different ones on this board putting down Coach Self as not being a good tournament coach. I guess your phogy brain has a tough time reading anything over five lines long. Sorry about the Indiana thing, that was just one of those things that happens to anyone trying to put something together. I know that it was Illinois and have changed it. Don't forget to take your fish oil, it might help your phogy brain. smile

Top
#2016589 - 04/04/17 03:38 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
You're the one that needs the fish oil. I am the one that caught your mistake,. And who outside of West and maybe one other complains about Bill's tournament failures around here. I know the local yokels have to pump up themselves about all things Kansas for that warm fuzzy feeling. Really outside of KU basketball the state ain't got much going on. That's why they call it flyover country. Try going on a vacation and quit obsessing about Bill's greatness. Bottom line in as far as closing the deal tournament wise. Roy owns him.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016592 - 04/04/17 07:14 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Actually J1952 posts here were very informative to see the greats in the college game coaching wise. Keep it up for us folks who read the things!

Bill Self can coach here even with a geographical recruiting disadvantage by N C, Duke.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016593 - 04/04/17 09:23 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
God..power surge just wiped out a lengthy post. In short I actually appreciated 52's lengthy post. It was very informative. .I just don't find it necessary to validate Self's excellent coaching resume either regular season or post season.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016594 - 04/04/17 11:39 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952

Another measure is how many times did a coach not make the tournament, leave the tournament during the first three rounds or make it into one of the final three rounds?


No it isn't. You are cherry picking data to fit your pre-determined conclusions. The tournament is made up of 3 4-team mini tournaments. Success is measured by how many weekends you win.

The proper metrics are:

Sweet 16 berths
Final Four berths
National Championships

Making the Elite 8 only means a team made it past the FIRST weekend threshold - not very impressive.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016595 - 04/04/17 12:27 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Yeah making an E8 sucks ...only 60 other tournament qualified teams don't even get to that point.


Edited by PHOGUSHER (04/04/17 12:27 PM)
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016596 - 04/04/17 01:49 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
vikingbomber Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 12/06/05
Loc: Far, Far Away
Self has won a lot of NCAA tournament games with KU, no question. Has he underperformed against expectations? No question.

To get to an Elite Eight game, you go 3-0. If you lose, you're 3-1 obviously, so a winning percentage of .750. Yahoo. By definition, you can only lose once in a one-and-done tournament. But how many times has KU lost on or before the Elite Eight with a top 4 team (ie, a 1 seed)? Or simply just lost to a lower seed?

2004: KU held seed. 3-0 versus lower seeds. 0-1 versus higher seed. Met expectations.

2005: KU lost to a lower seed. 0-1. Did not meet expectations.

2006: KU lost to a lower seed. 0-1. Did not meet expectations.

2007: KU held seed. 3-0 versus lower seeds. 0-1 versus higher seed. Met expectations.

2008: KU went 4-0 versus lower seeds. 2-0 versus equal seeds. Exceeded expectations.

2009: KU held seed. 2-0 versus lower seeds. 0-1 versus higher seed. Met expectations.

2010: KU lost to a lower seed. 1-1. Did not meet expectations.

2011: KU lost to a lower seed. 3-1. Did not meet expectations.

2012: KU went 3-0 versus lower seeds. 2-1 versus higher seeds. Exceeded expectations.

2013: KU lost to a lower seed. 2-1. Did not meet expectations.

2014: KU lost to a lower seed. 1-1. Did not meet expectations.

2015: KU lost to a lower seed. 1-1. Did not meet expectations.

2016: KU lost to a lower seed. 3-1. Did not meet expectations.

2017: KU lost to a lower seed. 3-1. Did not meet expectations.

Self is a great coach, but a top-notch tournament coach? No, he is not.

Top
#2016597 - 04/04/17 01:59 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: vikingbomber]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
HCBS is one of the top 5 active coaches in college basketball. Considering how many there are, top 5 is pretty good.

Top
#2016598 - 04/04/17 02:34 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: vikingbomber]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
Originally Posted By: vikingbomber
Self is a great coach, but a top-notch tournament coach? No, he is not.


I guess that depends on your definition of "top-notch."

He wins 70% of his games in the tournament which ranks 6th amongst active college coaches.

K, Roy, Cal, Pitino, Izzo...then Self.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016599 - 04/04/17 02:34 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Yeah making an E8 sucks ...only 60 other tournament qualified teams don't even get to that point.


lol

Nowhere did I insinuate that it "sucks." Learn to read.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016600 - 04/04/17 02:36 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Bill Self is a mid-major coach. He dominates the regular season in a crappy conference and then gets schooled when he has to face real competition in the tournament.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016601 - 04/04/17 03:02 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
vikingbomber Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 12/06/05
Loc: Far, Far Away
As I pointed out, you can go 3-1 in the tournament and lose to a lower seed in the E8, and have a .750 winning percentage. That doesn't mean you've had a good tournament.

Originally Posted By: dgless21
Originally Posted By: vikingbomber
Self is a great coach, but a top-notch tournament coach? No, he is not.


I guess that depends on your definition of "top-notch."

He wins 70% of his games in the tournament which ranks 6th amongst active college coaches.

K, Roy, Cal, Pitino, Izzo...then Self.

Top
#2016602 - 04/04/17 03:23 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
You're the one that needs the fish oil. I am the one that caught your mistake,. And who outside of West and maybe one other complains about Bill's tournament failures around here. I know the local yokels have to pump up themselves about all things Kansas for that warm fuzzy feeling. Really outside of KU basketball the state ain't got much going on. That's why they call it flyover country. Try going on a vacation and quit obsessing about Bill's greatness. Bottom line in as far as closing the deal tournament wise. Roy owns him.


What honest person would want to say that they have never made a mistake? I've made plenty in my life time.

No, Roy doesn't own Bill. When comparing them to the same school (KU) record and similar age wise record, Roy never achieved a championship and Self has. In the days to come we won't be able to compare them school to school, but we will be able to age to age. I expect that Bill will get several more championships in the days to come. Roy doesn't have all that many years left, maybe five or so.

There is a lot to see in Kansas. I've been all over the state and have enjoyed various kinds of and unique scenes and there's a lot I haven't yet seen. Only stuffy East and West coast personnel and other characters consider Kansas just a flyover state. That's their loss.

Top
#2016603 - 04/04/17 03:29 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Actually J1952 posts here were very informative to see the greats in the college game coaching wise. Keep it up for us folks who read the things!

Bill Self can coach here even with a geographical recruiting disadvantage by N C, Duke.


Thanks for your positive words.

Actually Phogy is a pretty good guy, sometimes you just have to take him with a grain of salt . He does like to try and get under your skin sometimes, but then he'll come back and say something positive. He's even responded in a positive way on this post. So I just put up with his antics and consider him a friend.

Top
#2016604 - 04/04/17 03:37 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
I actually enjoy history and looking up statistics from the past. I'm glad that a few like some of my more lengthy posts that put these stats together. Trust that there is something positive to glean from them. There's nothing wrong with looking at the past as long as one doesn't live in it. There is a lot to learn from the past, but the problem is that too many don't seem to learn from it. That applies to all aspects of life.

Top
#2016605 - 04/04/17 04:07 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: vikingbomber]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: vikingbomber
As I pointed out, you can go 3-1 in the tournament and lose to a lower seed in the E8, and have a .750 winning percentage. That doesn't mean you've had a good tournament.

Originally Posted By: dgless21
Originally Posted By: vikingbomber
Self is a great coach, but a top-notch tournament coach? No, he is not.


I guess that depends on your definition of "top-notch."

He wins 70% of his games in the tournament which ranks 6th amongst active college coaches.

K, Roy, Cal, Pitino, Izzo...then Self.


You are talking to people who are also crowing about beating up on the Truckstop 10 as if it's a major accomplishment.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016606 - 04/04/17 04:09 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
There is a lot to see in Kansas. I've been all over the state and have enjoyed various kinds of and unique scenes and there's a lot I haven't yet seen. Only stuffy East and West coast personnel and other characters consider Kansas just a flyover state. That's their loss.


And where do you think the talent comes from? The fields of western Kansas? lol
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016607 - 04/04/17 04:45 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
There is a lot to see in Kansas. I've been all over the state and have enjoyed various kinds of and unique scenes and there's a lot I haven't yet seen. Only stuffy East and West coast personnel and other characters consider Kansas just a flyover state. That's their loss.


And where do you think the talent comes from? The fields of western Kansas? lol


It's come from all over the nation including Kansas, just as it is with all other major basketball schools. And some of those who have done quite well in other schools have come from Kansas. Not saying that Kansas is the hotbed for recruiting, but we've contributed some excellent talent across the years throughout the nation.

Top
#2016621 - 04/05/17 09:27 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
Originally Posted By: JimWest
You are talking to people who are also crowing about beating up on the Truckstop 10 as if it's a major accomplishment.


I have no love for our conference. I don't consider it to be a "major accomplishment" to win it. It's a noteworthy accomplishment, but it's no national title.

We all want more NCs and final fours...but the question is who could you replace him with that's better?

Realistically, who would win in the tournament at a higher clip that we could get at KU?
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016622 - 04/05/17 10:09 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: dgless21
I have no love for our conference. I don't consider it to be a "major accomplishment" to win it. It's a noteworthy accomplishment, but it's no national title.


The BIG 8/12 was, is and always will be one of the best basketball conferences in the country.

You won't have to "not love" our conference for much longer. There is no doubt in my mind that the BIG 12 will die with the current grant of rights. Then you can "love" our conference when we join some other that will spread us out over multiple time zones spanning thousands of miles. Matchups night in and night out against nobody schools that we have absolutely no history with. Yea. Love it when we travel to utah for an 11:00pm showdown on a Tuesday night. Love it when we travel to rutgers for a grudge match. Yea. Can hardly wait.

I'll give it to you that winning our conference is not equal to winning the national championship. But winning what conference is?

HCBS is one of the top 5 college basketball coaches in the country.



Top
#2016623 - 04/05/17 11:07 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
It was the best conference a few years ago. KU, UT, and OU are the only schools that I think highly of. aTm, CU, Missouri, and Nebraska were worthwhile once upon a time.

Of course, every team wants to win the conference, but it is watered down by the importance of the tournament in college basketball. Until the NCAA makes the regular season more meaningful, the conference championship is secondary to tournament outcomes. It's hard to have any love for conference titles due to the current format and lack of exclusivity in the tournament.

I absolutely agree that Self is at worst the 6th best coach in college basketball. Roy, K, Izzo, Cal, and Pitino are the only ones you could argue are equal or better.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016625 - 04/05/17 11:11 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Maximus Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Nice data. Still need some a little help from a graphic artist. More pictures and entertainment.
_________________________
Your enemies will know your quality where ever you meet them.

Top
#2016626 - 04/05/17 11:43 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Of course, every team wants to win the conference, but it is watered down by the importance of the tournament in college basketball. Until the NCAA makes the regular season more meaningful, the conference championship is secondary to tournament outcomes. It's hard to have any love for conference titles due to the current format and lack of exclusivity in the tournament.


The importance of winning the regular season is not watered down for me. It is not watered down for HCBS. It is not watered down for the student athletes. It likely is watered down for the millennial snowflakes that have the attention span of a gnat and a brain the size of a pea. But for those of us that know we need to enjoy the jouney, it is not watered down.

It's too bad you millennial snowflakes don't have the makeup to enjoy the journey. You missed a ton of fun along the road to the tourney. The indiana game was fun. Beating duke in the champions classic was fun. beating khintuckey in khintuckey was fun. Beating isu at isu was fun. that home game against wvu was fun. And so forth.

Top
#2016628 - 04/05/17 02:30 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: MICHHAWK]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
See if you can follow along on this: I said it is watered down by the importance of the tournament, and the regular season is secondary to the tournament. I did not say or suggest the players, coaches, fans, you, or me don't care about the regular season. I did not say or suggest that those games weren't fun or that the journey doesn't matter. Not sure where you got that from.

You disagreed with points I didn't make, and then you attempt to insult me because you disagree with the points I didn't make. Must be a generational gap thing.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016629 - 04/05/17 03:40 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
I follow just fine. The snowflakes will flush a great journey right down the crapper if their team does not win it all in March-April. I follow just fine.

Top
#2016630 - 04/05/17 04:05 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
How well does the Big 12 stack up with the top 6 Basketball conferences? JW says we are a mid-major conference. What do the records show? I checked with three different sources: Jeff Sagarin Ratings, NCAA Final RPI Ratings and the Final NCAA Poll. All three basically have the same results. Check with any other source, the results will be similar. So, to save space, I will just use the Jeff Sagarin Ratings as many consider he does an excellent job with his ratings. The following show how many each conference had in the top 10, 20, 30, 60 and 70, plus what percent of the teams made the top 10, 20, 30, 60 and 70:

----------------Big 12 –- ACC –- SEC – Pac 12 – B. East – Big 10
Top 10
Record .... 2/10 ...... 3/15 .... 2/14 .... 1/12 ..... 1/10 ...... 0/14
Percent ... .200 ...... .200 .... .143 ..... .083 ..... .100 ...... .000

Top 20
Record .... 4/10 ...... 4/15 .... 2/14 ..... 3/12 ..... 1/10 ...... 2/14
Percent ... .333 ...... .267 .... .143 ..... .225 ..... .100 ...... .143

Top 30
Record .... 6/10 ...... 8/15 ..... 2/14 ..... 3/12 ..... 4/10 ...... 3/14
Percent ... .600 ...... .533 ..... .143 ..... .225 ..... .400 ...... .214

Top 60
Record ..... 9/10 ... 12/15 ..... 7/14 ..... 6/12 ..... 7/10 ....... 8/14
Percent .... .900 ..... .800 ..... .500 ..... .500 ..... .700 ....... .571

Top 70
Record ... 10/10 ... 12/15 .... 10/14 ..... 7/12 ...... 8/10 .... 11/14
Percent ... 1.000 .... .800 ...... .714 ..... .583 ...... .800 ...... .786

Top 90
Record ... 10/10 ... 15/15 .... 12/14 ..... 8/12 ...... 8/10 .... 12/14
Percent ... 1.000 ... 1.000 ..... .857 ...... .667 ...... .800 ..... .857
I just added the Top 90 in case someone was thinking I was cherry picking by stopping at the Top 70.

Note–the Big 12 has the highest percentage in four of the results and tied for the highest in one with the ACC. This also gives a pretty good view of each conference from top to bottom. Even the Big 12 bottom dwellers make the top 70. These results are not my opinion nor JW’s, but someone who is an expert in this field and it is verified by other experts. I guess if the Big 12 is a mid-major conference, so are the other five.


Edited by Jayhawk1952 (04/05/17 05:58 PM)

Top
#2016631 - 04/05/17 04:10 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
I follow just fine. The snowflakes will flush a great journey right down the crapper if their team does not win it all in March-April. I follow just fine.

Do you really enjoy arguing these points that no one made?
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016632 - 04/05/17 04:24 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
jahawker2004 Offline
Freethinker

Registered: 12/30/03
Loc: Wherever Freethinkers Gather
Please don't judge Michhawk too harshly.

He's one of those outdated right-wingers who are embittered because they can't adjust to changing times. They fear change and progress. So.they must demonize those who don't through labels and name calling.

Thus "snowflakes". His favorite perjorative.

Right-wingers think this is funny. They are closed-minded. When you label someone it means you don't have to consider their viewpoint on anything. Their viewpoint is irrelevant, because they are "snowflakes" after all.

He has a special scorn for millennials. For whatever reason, millennials are to be marginalized. Otherwise, their opinions might provoke thought, which is anethema to the right-wing. Being open minded and exposed to other points of view makes their heads hurt.

They want to forever live in the past consigning the rest of us to suffer there with them.

They even have a cute little phrase for it--Making America Great Again.



Edited by jahawker2004 (04/05/17 04:50 PM)
_________________________
"Those Places (UNC, UCLA) Are Great, But There's No Place Like Kansas"
---Larry Brown to Bill Self.

Top
#2016640 - 04/05/17 06:17 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
Once again good stats 1952. Have we gone to politics now?
_________________________
Tomorrow may be too late--Live Today!

Top
#2016641 - 04/05/17 06:33 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: bigdogjac]
jahawker2004 Offline
Freethinker

Registered: 12/30/03
Loc: Wherever Freethinkers Gather
"It is likely watered down for the millennial snowflakes that have the attention span of a gnat and a brain the size of a pea."

"It's too bad you millennial snowflakes don't have the makeup to enjoy the journey."

"The snowflakes will flush a great journey right down the crapper if their team does not win it all in March-April."


One-trick pony. Even though I agree with the last sentiment (sans snowflakes).
_________________________
"Those Places (UNC, UCLA) Are Great, But There's No Place Like Kansas"
---Larry Brown to Bill Self.

Top
#2016653 - 04/06/17 08:08 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: jahawker2004]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Yer one of them snowflakes. Did you curl up in a cry room and diddle the silly puddy to help you get through it. You should form a protest to protest it.

Don't worry. Gen X will get you through it. We have been your entire life.

Top
#2016669 - 04/07/17 01:19 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Roy's prayer before each NCAA Tournament, "Please don't let me meet up with Bill's team."

Somewhere on this board someone said that Roy owned Bill in the tournament. That certainly is true if you are talking about NCAA Tourney Championships and they were. So hats off to Roy and his three national championships. But that statement about Roy owning Bill isn't totally true. Roy and Bill have met three times in the tourney. Bill's team has won all three times -- 2008 -- 84-66, 2012 -- 80-67 and 2013 -- 70-58. Each of those victories were by 12 or more points. The largest margin, 18 points, was when UNC was the top # 1 seed.

So Roy may own Bill when it comes to national championships, but not when meeting head to head in the tourney, thus Roy's prayer. He has good reason for such a prayer.

Top
#2016671 - 04/07/17 04:04 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
Roy's prayer before each NCAA Tournament, "Please don't let me meet up with Bill's team."

Somewhere on this board someone said that Roy owned Bill in the tournament. That certainly is true if you are talking about NCAA Tourney Championships and they were. So hats off to Roy and his three national championships. But that statement about Roy owning Bill isn't totally true. Roy and Bill have met three times in the tourney. Bill's team has won all three times -- 2008 -- 84-66, 2012 -- 80-67 and 2013 -- 70-58. Each of those victories were by 12 or more points. The largest margin, 18 points, was when UNC was the top # 1 seed.

So Roy may own Bill when it comes to national championships, but not when meeting head to head in the tourney, thus Roy's prayer. He has good reason for such a prayer.


ITP: Beating a single coach head-to-head is better than hanging a banner.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016679 - 04/07/17 09:54 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
You can spin it however you want, but that's not what was said.

Top
#2016680 - 04/07/17 12:08 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
You can spin it however you want, but that's not what was said.


What was said was more meaningless fanboi tripe from you. Kudos.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016681 - 04/07/17 12:21 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Bout time for you to move on. Or change your subject. Your annual beating of this same dead horse has played its' self out.

See you same time same place this time next year.

Top
#2016687 - 04/07/17 01:55 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: MICHHAWK]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
Bout time for you to move on. Or change your subject. Your annual beating of this same dead horse has played its' self out.

See you same time same place this time next year.
Both JW 58 beat up horses REAL good!😜
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016688 - 04/07/17 02:10 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
jayhawk_4_life2 Offline
Big Dipper

Registered: 05/03/12
Loc: one foot in slave state one fo...
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
You're the one that needs the fish oil. I am the one that caught your mistake,. And who outside of West and maybe one other complains about Bill's tournament failures around here. I know the local yokels have to pump up themselves about all things Kansas for that warm fuzzy feeling. Really outside of KU basketball the state ain't got much going on. That's why they call it flyover country. Try going on a vacation and quit obsessing about Bill's greatness. Bottom line in as far as closing the deal tournament wise. Roy owns him.


WHAT?? Ok How? I'm not doing all that research but my god. Self had missing pieces and everyone knew that if Frank couldn't get to the hole and Jackson was in foul trouble, KU was in trouble. Lucas not being a threat and Jackson getting that 2nd foul put them in a hole!! after that Graham freaked out and tried to shoot himself out of the cold streak.. If Jackson doesn't pick up that foul they win that game!! CAn't prove it but that's what I believe!!!

Roy won 0 at KU.. has had a great run at UNC.. but I don't know if any of those top 5-10 coaches can say they own any of the others!!!

Top
#2016700 - 04/07/17 03:28 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Ok...maybe so. Dang 2004 whipped up on Michhawk right proper in this thread. But Michhawk is correct about one thing. Jimbo West has got to go.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016701 - 04/07/17 03:54 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
JimWest is eternal.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016704 - 04/07/17 04:07 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Errr. ..infernal. .like an infernal dimwitted Nancy boy. Originally fueled by his ethanol fueled western Kansas uncles that took turns making you squeal like a pig. Jusayin
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016705 - 04/07/17 04:10 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
BS won at Oral Roberts.
BS won at Tulsa.
BS won at Illinois.
BS won at KU

RW fell into wins at KU
RW fell into wins at UNC

Pretty plain to see who is the better coach.
_________________________
Tomorrow may be too late--Live Today!

Top
#2016711 - 04/07/17 07:20 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: bigdogjac]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
When jayhawk_4_life2 said, “Roy won 0 at KU.. has had a great run at UNC.. but I don't know if any of those top 5-10 coaches can say they own any of the others!!!”, it made me wonder how the five we’ve been talking about stacked up against each other in head to head competition. I made a chart to show such. These figures are based on the last 14 years. I tried hard to make this 100% accurate, but I don’t guarantee that it is.

Coach . . Self . . . Cal . . C. K. . .Roy . . Izzo . . .Record
Self . . . . ///// . . . 2-3 . . . 2-1 . . . 3-0 . . . 3-4 . . . 10 - 8
Cal . . . . .3-2 . . . ///// . . . 0-2 . . . 5-3 . . . 1-1 . . . .9 - 8
C. K. . . . 1-2. . . . 2-0 . . .///// . . 13-17 . . .8-1 . . .24 -20
Roy . . . . 0-3. . . . 3-5 . .17-13 . . .///// . . . 6-0 . . .26 -21
Izzo . . . . 4-3. . . . 1-1 . . .1-8 . . . .0-6 . . .///// . . . .6 -18

You can make your own interpretations, but I can see saying that Self own’s Roy, Cal own’s no one, Coach K own’s Cal and Izzo, Roy own’s Izzo and Izzo own’s no one. Roy and Coach K are the only ones in the same conference so they meet often. The "Record" column I've added is their overall wins/losses against the other four coaches. Looks pretty even except for Izzo.

Top
#2016716 - 04/08/17 11:05 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: bigdogjac]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: bigdogjac
RW fell into wins at KU
RW fell into wins at UNC

Pretty plain to see who is the better coach.


I am not sure what you are trying to say here. What does "fell into" mean in your brain?

Both HCBS and HCRW are on the list of top 5 active college basketball coaches.

Top
#2016718 - 04/08/17 11:49 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
Originally Posted By: bigdogjac
RW fell into wins at KU
RW fell into wins at UNC

Pretty plain to see who is the better coach.


I am not sure what you are trying to say here. What does "fell into" mean in your brain?

Both HCBS and HCRW are on the list of top 5 active college basketball coaches.

I believe what Bigdog is saying is that while Self started out with two rebuilding programs at ORU and Tulsa and took over a good but not great program at Illinois and turned all three into strong winning programs, Roy started out with two top notch programs at KU and UNC.

No doubt that Roy had to have the where-with-all to continue keeping both programs at a top notch level but he did have a running start to keep them great, thus, wins, in a sense, fell into his lap because of where he started. Self had to really dig deep to reach his wins and create winning programs. Self winning at KU was a continuation of his previous winning ways. Some might say Self is the better coach because of what he has had to overcome at three of his stops.

Both coaches are top notch coaches, of that there is no doubt.

Some of us have unique ways of how we phrase things. You probably understood what Bigdog was saying but just wanted to get a bit under his skin. However it is quite possible that I am misunderstanding both of you.



Top
#2016721 - 04/08/17 05:56 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Sometimes Jim West is right...you stupid Kansas farm boys spin it your ways, Roy took over KU after Larry landed them in probation, Not allowed in the NCAA Tournament and minus a few schollies, What Roy pulled off getting KU to 2 Final 4s in his first 5 years at KU is miraculous. Actually trumping Bill. Accept reality outside of a few losses straight up with Bill ..Roy is every bit as good and with superior NCAA Tournament results. Now go milk the cows ya hick.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016722 - 04/08/17 06:48 PM Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Test

I had a virus, all better now. Computer virus that is.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016724 - 04/09/17 12:00 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Sometimes Jim West is right...you stupid Kansas farm boys spin it your ways, Roy took over KU after Larry landed them in probation, Not allowed in the NCAA Tournament and minus a few schollies, What Roy pulled off getting KU to 2 Final 4s in his first 5 years at KU is miraculous. Actually trumping Bill. Accept reality outside of a few losses straight up with Bill ..Roy is every bit as good and with superior NCAA Tournament results. Now go milk the cows ya hick.


I'd like to see you try and raise the bountiful crops the, "stupid Kansas farm boys," are able to raise and help feed our nation. It's certainly not a task for anyone stupid so I guess that eliminates you from even trying. smile

Roy was handed a bad situation as the result of Brown's actions. But he did inherit a decent team left over by Brown, he inherited a great tradition and he only lost one scholarship, not "a few scollies" as you stated. It did put a bit of a damper on his recruiting for one year but he was able to get Adonis Jordan and also got Steve Woodberry. I don't believe Roy inherited anything like Bill did at ORU. In the previous nine years ORU only had two winning seasons and in the previous season had a 5-22 record. Bill had a lot to overcome in his first gig.

I was only trying to give an explanation of what I thought Bigdog was saying. However, neither of us said anything about Roy being a bad coach. In fact I said that both Roy and Self are great coaches. But don't try and make the spin that Bill had an easier task than Roy in their first gigs. He definitely didn't! And when you compare Roy's NCAA tournament results at Kansas with Bill's results at Kansas, he definitely doesn't have a superior record. Similar, yes, superior, no, Roy never got a championship and Bill has. And Bill definitely has a more superior season record at KU than Roy (.827 average wins to Roy's .805 at KU and .776 at UNC).

PS Do you even know how to milk a cow city slicker? grin My dad would have had a hay day with your bumbling at the farm. laugh

Top
#2016725 - 04/09/17 03:01 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
PS Do you even know how to milk a cow city slicker? grin My dad would have had a hay day with your bumbling at the farm. laugh


Yeah, because performing manual labor on a farm is something to aspire to. lol

Even setting foot on a farm indicates failure in life.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016726 - 04/09/17 07:59 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
PS Do you even know how to milk a cow city slicker? grin My dad would have had a hay day with your bumbling at the farm. laugh


Yeah, because performing manual labor on a farm is something to aspire to. lol

Even setting foot on a farm indicates failure in life.


That's about as dumb of a statement as I've heard in a long time. It shows your ignorance concerning a farm as well as manual labor. Farm life today is a long cry from what it used to be. It has become quite a high tech business. This includes agriculture farming as well as dairy and livestock farming. Without the smarts needed to understand this and the ability to adapt to it, you won't make it as a farmer. And when I say, "you," I am including YOU. Without the farm industry, our nation would be in a sorry state. I defy anyone on this board to say otherwise.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with manual labor. Those involved in manual labor are the backbone of our nation. Without manual labor you don't have food to eat, milk to drink, a house to live in, a place to work no matter what your job is. You don't have appliances in your home to cook with, clean with, you don't even have plumbing for water, gas or electricity. You don't have a car, or gas to run it it or oil for the engine. You don't have anyone to repair any of this stuff. You don't have highways to drive on or airplanes to fly in, not even trains or buses for transportation. You don't have a computer to write your drivel on, nor a smartphone, nor even a phone. In fact you don't even have a pencil or pen to write with or paper to write on. Without manual labor you end back up in the cave you were born in and are forced to do a whole lot of manual labor just to survive. You end up making your own weapons from trees and probably in your case swinging from the branches of those trees and the vines hanging in them.

The fact is you don't even have sporting events as we do today because there would be no one to make the equipment needed for the sporting events and not even players to participate in the team activity as that would involve a lot of manual labor.

You need to quit thinking so highly of yourself as you are nothing without the help and labor of others. Quit thinking that you are so infallible in your thinking as only popes and dopes are allowed to believe that.

If I sound upset, it is because I am. Sorry if I offended anyone, but if I did, you needed to be.

Top
#2016727 - 04/09/17 08:39 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Yes 52 ...my grandfather owned a diary. Bailed hay on his 120 acre farm until 14 yrs of age. But I wanted out of flyover country. Wanted to see a bit of the world. Joined the military and afterwards worked as a defense contractor for the Navy.

Repaired radar and sonar systems mostly on nuclear submarines for about 27 yrs. So sure I can milk a cow ...can you repair a submarines radar or sonar. My efforts kept the US Navy ships in readiness to deter enemy threats. That kinda trumps milking a cow or growing crops. But actually I respect farmers. I just like spinning you up and that's easy to do..

As far as Roy is concerned I think he did more with less talent at KU . The 91 and 93 F4 teams weren't near as talented as most of Bill's teams but accomplished more. I say both coaches are about equal.


Edited by PHOGUSHER (04/09/17 08:41 AM)
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016729 - 04/09/17 09:36 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
AlOerter Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/02/13
Everyone has their role in society to make it function. Higher pay or greater skill doesn't make one person of greater worth than another. Just like JW's role on this board is to get a rise out of people and enjoy watching people scramble to refute him. I suspect that he is not that firmly convicted of many of the things he posts on here. (I do not personally object to the discussion - that is what we're on here for)


As far as Bill Self being a top notch coach, a great many coaches, sports writers, and players past and present think that he is. I will trust the opinions of people who know far more about basketball than I do.
_________________________
" I used to have power. Now old age is creeping up on me." Chief Dan George

Top
#2016731 - 04/09/17 10:48 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
1952, Thanks for explaining my post. Great job. I threw that out there for our fellow posters to think about.

Some are better thinkers than others! LOL!

Another fact is that when you become head coach at either KU or UNC, many potential recruits already have both schools on their lists. Therefore success can become much easier and quicker. Roy never had to overcome what Bill did.

How smart was Bill when he moved from Ill to KU. Very smart, he already knew this.
_________________________
Tomorrow may be too late--Live Today!

Top
#2016732 - 04/09/17 10:52 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
It will be a long time before we see another Bill Self era come along. I endured the Owens years simply wishing we could be what we have become today.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016734 - 04/09/17 02:17 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Yes 52 ...my grandfather owned a diary. Bailed hay on his 120 acre farm until 14 yrs of age. But I wanted out of flyover country. Wanted to see a bit of the world. Joined the military and afterwards worked as a defense contractor for the Navy.

Repaired radar and sonar systems mostly on nuclear submarines for about 27 yrs. So sure I can milk a cow ...can you repair a submarines radar or sonar. My efforts kept the US Navy ships in readiness to deter enemy threats. That kinda trumps milking a cow or growing crops. But actually I respect farmers. I just like spinning you up and that's easy to do..

As far as Roy is concerned I think he did more with less talent at KU . The 91 and 93 F4 teams weren't near as talented as most of Bill's teams but accomplished more. I say both coaches are about equal.


Why are you able to milk a cow? Because you were taught how. Why are you able to repair radar and sonar systems? Because you were trained how. Can I repair radar and sonar systems? No. Why? Because I was never trained how. Could I learn? I have no doubt. There's not much of anything I can't do if I apply myself and learn how to do it. I'm sure that's true of most of us. I think you're statement about your work in the military and defense contracting trumping milking a cow or raising crops is a bit out of line or did those military and defense contract personnel not ever eat? I assume they surely did and were extremely glad they could. Who do you think made that possible? Anytime any one person or group of persons think that they are better than others they've really gotten their thinking out of whack. We all really do depend upon each other, and that includes all of us depending on the farmers. So I think you probably spoke before you thought.

The thing about learning how to milk a cow is that doing so doesn't make you a farmer, not even remotely close. In fact, the farms that I'm aware of in western Kansas don't even have milk cows, chickens or pigs unless they specialize in those areas. Most of the farms in crop raising work 2,000 - 6,000 acres or more. I'm talking about individual farmers and not incorporative farm businesses. They work with tractors and combines that cost $100,000 - 300,000 and that's not including the implements. It takes a lot of know how to keep all of that running smoothly and staying above water economically.

I appreciate you service to our country and your later support of it through defense contracting. But we wouldn't be the nation we are today without all of the other kinds of businesses and manufacturing which includes a whole lot of manual labor. I suspect that this board is full of people who are or have been involved in manual labor. I salute each and every one. They have my respect and gratitude.

I have no problem with you being on this board as I've learned to understand you some better. I know that you like to try and get under someone's skin and upset them. But also have learned that your bark is a lot worse than your bite and you're not nearly as disagreeable as you sometimes sound. I will have to admit, though, that I was a bit disappointed in your lining up with JW.

Top
#2016739 - 04/09/17 04:31 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
No...you old folk have no concept of modern military technology. It's not like operating are programed irrigation system. And lol. 100000 to 300000 dollar farm equipment. Heck one of the sonar systems I was responsible for cost the neighborhood of 4 million dollars.

I did over 500 job evolutions with such equipment over 25 yrs plus numerous other duties that kept flyover country farmers protected from the Communist threat and threats from other countries. Don't even try comparing the two jobs. I don't disrespect your profession but don't dare under estimate what I did...got it. And please expand your narrow minded views of things. I don't like Jimbo West but I laugh at his posts because he can easily spin local yokels like yourself up and you take the bait every time. Quit doing that.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016740 - 04/09/17 04:53 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
No...you old folk have no concept of modern military technology. It's not like operating are programed irrigation system. And lol. 100000 to 300000 dollar farm equipment. Heck one of the sonar systems I was responsible for cost the neighborhood of 4 million dollars.

I did over 500 job evolutions with such equipment over 25 yrs plus numerous other duties that kept flyover country farmers protected from the Communist threat and threats from other countries. Don't even try comparing the two jobs. I don't disrespect your profession but don't dare under estimate what I did...got it. And please expand your narrow minded views of things. I don't like Jimbo West but I laugh at his posts because he can easily spin local yokels like yourself up and you take the bait every time. Quit doing that.


Don't believe I was disrespecting what you did one iota. But the bottom line of what I was saying is, if you and your people don't eat, you don't produce, either as a military or a defense contractor. Our dependency upon each other today is so inner woven that none can do without the others.

I once swore off ever responding to JW once. But he's so much like an disgusting,evil rattlesnake slithering his way throughout this board that you just have to want to try and cut off his poisonous head once in a while. smile

Top
#2016742 - 04/09/17 05:48 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Puhlease...we started out as a fighting military nation..we got our crops from the injuns. Without the protection of our early military the American farmer never would have got going. Again military trumps farmer. Heck our military could have bought crops from our ally countries.

In fact I work a part time job just for something to do online shopping at a grocery store. Most of the produce they sell especially in season stuff comes from other countries. Explain that if you can....still respect the farming profession but it's is not important as our military. And Roy still is Bill's equal. ..boom.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016746 - 04/09/17 06:52 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
I understand technology as it has changed drastically in the oil and gas industry. Instead of drilling and completing 3000' vertical holes I am now drilling down 10,000' , turning that steel and drilling a horizontal hole for 2 miles. Technology has changed the entire world. It is needed everywhere and I will not put the importance of one over the other, but...............you would still be drilling wheat in western Ok. with mules and sailing those ships if it were not for oil and gas. LOL! I don't feel any more important than anybody else, because I, nor my industry is.
_________________________
Tomorrow may be too late--Live Today!

Top
#2016748 - 04/09/17 07:16 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
You frigging fracker....ruining our environment. Navy runs on nuclear power mostly, Don't need that fracking stinking oil.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016749 - 04/09/17 07:16 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: bigdogjac]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: bigdogjac
I understand technology as it has changed drastically in the oil and gas industry. Instead of drilling and completing 3000' vertical holes I am now drilling down 10,000' , turning that steel and drilling a horizontal hole for 2 miles. Technology has changed the entire world. It is needed everywhere and I will not put the importance of one over the other, but...............you would still be drilling wheat in western Ok. with mules and sailing those ships if it were not for oil and gas. LOL! I don't feel any more important than anybody else, because I, nor my industry is.
We don't want to get a rig drilling in NE or KS until prices rebound.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016750 - 04/09/17 07:31 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
If someone does, I don't want to be that someone that does.
_________________________
Tomorrow may be too late--Live Today!

Top
#2016752 - 04/09/17 07:33 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
Phog, Maybe we will create an earthquake and swallow you up.
_________________________
Tomorrow may be too late--Live Today!

Top
#2016753 - 04/09/17 09:18 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952


That's about as dumb of a statement as I've heard in a long time. It shows your ignorance concerning a farm as well as manual labor. Farm life today is a long cry from what it used to be. It has become quite a high tech business. This includes agriculture farming as well as dairy and livestock farming. Without the smarts needed to understand this and the ability to adapt to it, you won't make it as a farmer. And when I say, "you," I am including YOU. Without the farm industry, our nation would be in a sorry state. I defy anyone on this board to say otherwise.


You are seriously trying to defend farming as a respectable occupation? Only losers farm. Then they make up this fantasy land where "farmers feed the world" or some crap so they can justify their pathetic existence.

Quote:
Besides, there is nothing wrong with manual labor.


Right I guess, if your intellectual abilities are so lacking that you have to resort to using your hands.

Quote:
Those involved in manual labor are the backbone of our nation.


Closely following the deification of Bill Self, we now are seeing the deification of the day laborer.

Quote:
Without manual labor you don't have food to eat, milk to drink, a house to live in, a place to work no matter what your job is.


Really? Seems like I do.

Quote:
You don't have appliances in your home to cook with, clean with, you don't even have plumbing for water, gas or electricity.


My Centurion Card gets me these things just fine.

Quote:
You don't have a car, or gas to run it it or oil for the engine. You don't have anyone to repair any of this stuff. You don't have highways to drive on or airplanes to fly in, not even trains or buses for transportation. You don't have a computer to write your drivel on, nor a smartphone, nor even a phone. In fact you don't even have a pencil or pen to write with or paper to write on. Without manual labor you end back up in the cave you were born in and are forced to do a whole lot of manual labor just to survive.


Again, fantasy land.

Quote:
You end up making your own weapons from trees and probably in your case swinging from the branches of those trees and the vines hanging in them.


I didn't realize we were living in the jungle now. Unlike you, I live in a real city with real infrastructure.

Quote:
The fact is you don't even have sporting events as we do today because there would be no one to make the equipment needed for the sporting events and not even players to participate in the team activity as that would involve a lot of manual labor.


We have sporting events today PRECISELY because we don't need to conduct manual labor anymore.

Quote:
You need to quit thinking so highly of yourself as you are nothing without the help and labor of others.


Others are nothing without JimWest.

Quote:
Quit thinking that you are so infallible in your thinking as only popes and dopes are allowed to believe that.


Is this some farmland idiom? Speak English.

Quote:
If I sound upset, it is because I am. Sorry if I offended anyone, but if I did, you needed to be.


Good, keep crying into your Busch Light as you drive your tractor back and forth between the cornfield and the pig pen.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016754 - 04/09/17 09:23 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
They work with tractors and combines that cost $100,000 - 300,000 and that's not including the implements. It takes a lot of know how to keep all of that running smoothly and staying above water economically.


lol

Some equipment seems somewhat expensive to ruralites! Therefore the job is really respectable!

Flawless logic.

Quote:
I appreciate you service to our country and your later support of it through defense contracting.


The deification of Bill Self, followed by the deification of the Farmer, and now the deification of the military. The farm-brain trifecta!

Quote:
But we wouldn't be the nation we are today without all of the other kinds of businesses and manufacturing which includes a whole lot of manual labor.


You rural people still act like it is the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. Modern society has moved on.

Quote:
I suspect that this board is full of people who are or have been involved in manual labor.


The smart ones have moved on.

Quote:
I salute each and every one. They have my respect and gratitude.


Somewhere someone must have told all these hicks that if they give undying "respect and gratitude" to other hicks that they will reap some reward at some point. There is no other explanation for this.

Quote:
I will have to admit, though, that I was a bit disappointed in your lining up with JW.


JimWest is legion.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016758 - 04/09/17 10:03 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
They work with tractors and combines that cost $100,000 - 300,000 and that's not including the implements. It takes a lot of know how to keep all of that running smoothly and staying above water economically.


lol

Some equipment seems somewhat expensive to ruralites! Therefore the job is really respectable!

Flawless logic.

Quote:
I appreciate you service to our country and your later support of it through defense contracting.


The deification of Bill Self, followed by the deification of the Farmer, and now the deification of the military. The farm-brain trifecta!

Quote:
But we wouldn't be the nation we are today without all of the other kinds of businesses and manufacturing which includes a whole lot of manual labor.


You rural people still act like it is the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. Modern society has moved on.

Quote:
I suspect that this board is full of people who are or have been involved in manual labor.


The smart ones have moved on.

Quote:
I salute each and every one. They have my respect and gratitude.


Somewhere someone must have told all these hicks that if they give undying "respect and gratitude" to other hicks that they will reap some reward at some point. There is no other explanation for this.

Quote:
I will have to admit, though, that I was a bit disappointed in your lining up with JW.


JimWest is legion in the gay community.


Fyp
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016759 - 04/09/17 10:23 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
JimWest's prowess is not limited to a single community.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016767 - 04/10/17 12:05 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Hey Bigdog, I think we need to run some of your oil through this thread, I keep hearing some sort of a squeak on it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Oh, never mind, it's been figured out, the small pipsqueak is on it.

Top
#2016771 - 04/10/17 01:48 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Originally Posted By: JimWest
JimWest's prowess is not limited to a single community.


Rainbow warrior prowess...ya dang pipsqueak..
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016853 - 04/16/17 12:08 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Another means of measuring NCAA Tournament results for coaches.

With the exception of two, the following coaches have won at least one NCAA Basketball Championship during the past 14 years. Two of the coaches either retired or moved to the NBA during this time so their record was extended backwards to include their last 14 years. One coach has only been at it for five years. Izzo and Boeheim were included as they’ve been considered great coaches and both have won one championship previously, their only championships. The term, “Years” means the years covered. “Ng,” meaning No go, are the years they didn’t make it to the tournament. With the exception of Cal, all of the coaches were at the same school during the time considered. Points were awarded for each level reached in the tourney – 64= 1, 32= 2, 16= 3, E8= 4, F4= 5, F2= 6 and Champ= 7 to determine how the coaches stack up against each other.

Coach - Years -Champ -F 2 - F 4–E 8 -16 - 32 - 64 –Ng -Points
Roy........... 14 .....3........1......1.....3....3.....2.....0 ....1 ..... 56
Self........... 14 .....1........1......0.....5....2.....3.....2 ....0 ..... 47
Cal............ 14 .....1........1......2.....4....1.....2.....0 ... 2 ..... 46
Coach K.... 14 .....2........0......1.....1....5.....2.....3 ... 0 ..... 45
Izzo........... 14......0........1......3.....1....3.....3.....3 ... 0 ..... 43
Pitino ........ 14 .... 1 ...... 0 .... 2 ... 3 .. 1 ... 3 ... 2 ... 2 ..... 40
Donovan ... 14 .....2 ...... 0 .... 1 ... 3 ...0 ... 2 ... 3 ... 3 ..... 38
Calhoun .... 14 .... 3 ...... 0 .... 1 ... 2 .. 1 ... 2 ... 2 ... 3 ..... 37
Wright ....... 14 .... 1 ...... 0 .... 1 ... 1 .. 2 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ..... 33
Boeheim ... 14 .... 0 ...... 0 .... 2 .... 1 .. 3 ... 2 ... 2 ... 4 ..... 29
Ollie ........... 5 .....1 ...... 0 .... 0 .... 0 .. 0 ... 1 ... 0 ... 3 ....... 6
(Roy at KU.14..... 0 ...... 2 .... 2 .... 1 .. 4 ... 5.... 0 ... 0 ..... 48)

I considered giving penalty points for missing the tourney. Giving one point or two points in penalties for each year missed didn’t make a lot of difference. A one point penalty dropped Cal one position and two points dropped him two positions. The rest stayed in the same order. Note that all the coaches have piled up a large number in the Ng, 64 and 32 columns. Roy, Self, Cal and Coach K have the least number with totals of 3, 4 or 5.

Top
#2016854 - 04/16/17 12:20 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
Another means of measuring NCAA Tournament results for coaches.

With the exception of two, the following coaches have won at least one NCAA Basketball Championship during the past 14 years. Two of the coaches either retired or moved to the NBA during this time so their record was extended backwards to include their last 14 years. One coach has only been at it for five years. Izzo and Boeheim were included as they’ve been considered great coaches and both have won one championship previously, their only championships. The term, “Years” means the years covered. “Ng,” meaning No go, are the years they didn’t make it to the tournament. With the exception of Cal, all of the coaches were at the same school during the time considered. Points were awarded for each level reached in the tourney – 64= 1, 32= 2, 16= 3, E8= 4, F4= 5, F2= 6 and Champ= 7 to determine how the coaches stack up against each other.

Coach - Years -Champ -F 2 - F 4–E 8 -16 - 32 - 64 –Ng -Points
Roy........... 14 .....3........1......1.....3....3.....2.....0 ....1 ..... 56
Self........... 14 .....1........1......0.....5....2.....3.....2 ....0 ..... 47
Cal............ 14 .....1........1......2.....4....1.....2.....0 ... 2 ..... 46
Coach K.... 14 .....2........0......1.....1....5.....2.....3 ... 0 ..... 45
Izzo........... 14......0........1......3.....1....3.....3.....3 ... 0 ..... 43
Pitino ........ 14 .... 1 ...... 0 .... 2 ... 3 .. 1 ... 3 ... 2 ... 2 ..... 40
Donovan ... 14 .....2 ...... 0 .... 1 ... 3 ...0 ... 2 ... 3 ... 3 ..... 38
Calhoun .... 14 .... 3 ...... 0 .... 1 ... 2 .. 1 ... 2 ... 2 ... 3 ..... 37
Wright ....... 14 .... 1 ...... 0 .... 1 ... 1 .. 2 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ..... 33
Boeheim ... 14 .... 0 ...... 0 .... 2 .... 1 .. 3 ... 2 ... 2 ... 4 ..... 29
Ollie ........... 5 .....1 ...... 0 .... 0 .... 0 .. 0 ... 1 ... 0 ... 3 ....... 6
(Roy at KU.14..... 0 ...... 2 .... 2 .... 1 .. 4 ... 5.... 0 ... 0 ..... 48)

I considered giving penalty points for missing the tourney. Giving one point or two points in penalties for each year missed didn’t make a lot of difference. A one point penalty dropped Cal one position and two points dropped him two positions. The rest stayed in the same order. Note that all the coaches have piled up a large number in the Ng, 64 and 32 columns. Roy, Self, Cal and Coach K have the least number with totals of 3, 4 or 5.


This is a laughably stupid scale. You weighted it to make THE GREAT DEITY BILL SELF look good. A National Championship only gets 7 points while an Elite Eight gets 4? Are you kidding? 3 wins vs. 6 wins. I mean, if you are going to do this, you need to weight later rounds progressively higher. But even if you do it the dumbass way like you did, you have to weight wins somewhat evenly. You are weighting the early rounds heavier. Use your brain.

This is just all around dumb farm brain garbage.


Edited by JimWest (04/16/17 12:21 AM)
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016855 - 04/16/17 12:30 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Sounds like the tiny pipsqueak is squeaking!

Top
#2016862 - 04/16/17 04:03 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
Sounds like the tiny pipsqueak is squeaking!


More farm logic...the size of the person somehow has something to do with the quality of their argument.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016864 - 04/16/17 04:57 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
More squeak from the little pipsqueak.

Top
#2016872 - 04/16/17 07:18 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
The biggest measurement on Tourney coaching is Final 4's and titles if we are comparing apples to apples. Roy has elevated himself in this discussion over the last 10 years. Coach K is still the ultimate standard of who everyone is chasing.

Give Self 29 years at a blueblood, I would hope he has more Final 4's and titles than most on this list. I will always say that Roy inherited a gold mine with the 05' class and in 09" that team wasn't going to be defeated. His last two teams have been really good coaching jobs.

I always get the impression we as KU fans are trying so hard to devalue what Roy is doing, and not looking at the fact that he has had almost 30 years of experience at two of the most prestigious places to coach. We are on the struggle bus when it comes to clearing that Elite 8 hurdle, but its a hurdle we are facing on a constant.

Top
#2016873 - 04/16/17 09:43 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Well if Bill can snag 2 more titles and 4 more F4s in the next 14 years he will be Roy's equal in tournament success. I am hoping for a bit more.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016874 - 04/17/17 12:34 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jaycat92]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: Jaycat92
The biggest measurement on Tourney coaching is Final 4's and titles if we are comparing apples to apples. Roy has elevated himself in this discussion over the last 10 years. Coach K is still the ultimate standard of who everyone is chasing.

Give Self 29 years at a blueblood, I would hope he has more Final 4's and titles than most on this list. I will always say that Roy inherited a gold mine with the 05' class and in 09" that team wasn't going to be defeated. His last two teams have been really good coaching jobs.

I always get the impression we as KU fans are trying so hard to devalue what Roy is doing, and not looking at the fact that he has had almost 30 years of experience at two of the most prestigious places to coach. We are on the struggle bus when it comes to clearing that Elite 8 hurdle, but its a hurdle we are facing on a constant.


Thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you were able to share your thoughts without having to put anyone down. Looks like you've done a lot of posting since joining this board.

There is no perfect means of measuring tournament success. I'm not sure that I agree with you that final fours and titles are the biggest measurement, except that when a team does reach those heights, they do rack up a lot of points in the means of measurement that I set up. Roy has garnered 13 points in just the past two years! They add a lot of points, as they should.

In his last 14 years Calhoun did get three titles but also missed the tournament three times. That has to take off some of the luster of him as a coach. Consistency should count for something. The same is true of Donovan with two titles and three no shows. Coach K has two titles but has had a difficult time getting past the sweet 16, only doing so four times in the past 14 years. But each of us have the privilege to ascertain what we consider important. I do value consistency along with titles and going deep into the tourney. I think my system awards all of these.

I know many like to knock Self for stumbling in the Elite 8 five times at KU but we need to keep in mind that out of 64 (68) coaches that make the tournament each year only eight get to the elite eight. Not a shabby accomplishment, but certainly less than what we are desiring. There were also 279 coaches who didn't even get to a play-in spot in the tourney. I do think that Bill's days are coming for more Final Fours and Titles.

I guess I don't sense that a lot of fans are wanting to put Roy down for his accomplishments, but there are some. The chart I developed certainly puts him at the top as a NCAA Tourney coach. I've always liked Roy, still do, but I'm glad we have Bill. We've been extremely fortunate the past 29 years to have these two as our coaches and I would add Larry, in spite of his mistake, to that making 34 years for us without a losing season. In fact, I appreciate Ted Owens. Yes, he had some real downer years, but there were also some really good years. He didn't always do a good rebuilding job every season whereas Roy and Bill have, at least at KU.

Top
#2016876 - 04/17/17 07:49 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Nobody is comparing Self to that mook Calhoun . I only compare Self to Roy and K as far as tournament success is concerned. You want to compare him to the other hundreds of coaches that don't coach a blueblood program...UCONN is not one of those btw.

Bill has the talent...tradition..and the greatest fanbase in college hoops at a true top 4 blueblood school. Bottom line his NCAA TOURNAMENT success should have been better in his first 14 seasons. Fuc.k comparing him to Zona..Zags ..etc. And screw that point system crap for tournament success. Final 4s and titles talk...everything else walks.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016877 - 04/17/17 08:57 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952

There is no perfect means of measuring tournament success.


Pretty much every means is better than yours.

Quote:
I'm not sure that I agree with you that final fours and titles are the biggest measurement,


You only say that because if you actually used them as a measurement then you would have to face the reality that THE GREAT DEITY BILL SELF is not actually that great.

Quote:
except that when a team does reach those heights, they do rack up a lot of points in the means of measurement that I set up.


WAHOO!!! You can also get the same number of "points" in your system as WINNING A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP by simply MAKING THE TOURNAMENT 7 years in a row. On what planet are those two feats remotely equivalent?

Quote:
Roy has garnered 13 points in just the past two years! They add a lot of points, as they should.


Dumb.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016878 - 04/17/17 09:07 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Nobody is comparing Self to that mook Calhoun . I only compare Self to Roy and K as far as tournament success is concerned. You want to compare him to the other hundreds of coaches that don't coach a blueblood program...UCONN is not one of those btw.

Bill has the talent...tradition..and the greatest fanbase in college hoops at a true top 4 blueblood school. Bottom line his NCAA TOURNAMENT success should have been better in his first 14 seasons. Fuc.k comparing him to Zona..Zags ..etc. And screw that point system crap for tournament success. Final 4s and titles talk...everything else walks.


My friend Phogy, we're not all that far off in our opinions, but we do have our disagreements. For the history of basketball there's only three truly blueblood schools, UK, KU and UNC. Because of Coach K, many now include Duke in that conversation. Had he not shown up Duke wouldn't be in the conversation. UCLA had a great run with Wooden, but not great consistency either direction from him. The rest are either Johnny come late, fading, never could quite get over the hump or just could never get going. I guess I could add to that those who have flashes of success. As I said in my post, each person can have their own criteria for measurement of success. You're welcomed to your own and I'm happy with mine. Here's to a great season next year.


Edited by Jayhawk1952 (04/17/17 09:08 AM)

Top
#2016879 - 04/17/17 11:11 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Nobody is comparing Self to that mook Calhoun . I only compare Self to Roy and K as far as tournament success is concerned. You want to compare him to the other hundreds of coaches that don't coach a blueblood program...UCONN is not one of those btw.

Bill has the talent...tradition..and the greatest fanbase in college hoops at a true top 4 blueblood school. Bottom line his NCAA TOURNAMENT success should have been better in his first 14 seasons. Fuc.k comparing him to Zona..Zags ..etc. And screw that point system crap for tournament success. Final 4s and titles talk...everything else walks.


My friend Phogy, we're not all that far off in our opinions, but we do have our disagreements. For the history of basketball there's only three truly blueblood schools, UK, KU and UNC. Because of Coach K, many now include Duke in that conversation. Had he not shown up Duke wouldn't be in the conversation. UCLA had a great run with Wooden, but not great consistency either direction from him. The rest are either Johnny come late, fading, never could quite get over the hump or just could never get going. I guess I could add to that those who have flashes of success. As I said in my post, each person can have their own criteria for measurement of success. You're welcomed to your own and I'm happy with mine. Here's to a great season next year.
Blue Bloods should include Indiana. Should not include UConn...IMO
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016882 - 04/17/17 02:25 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Nobody is comparing Self to that mook Calhoun . I only compare Self to Roy and K as far as tournament success is concerned. You want to compare him to the other hundreds of coaches that don't coach a blueblood program...UCONN is not one of those btw.

Bill has the talent...tradition..and the greatest fanbase in college hoops at a true top 4 blueblood school. Bottom line his NCAA TOURNAMENT success should have been better in his first 14 seasons. Fuc.k comparing him to Zona..Zags ..etc. And screw that point system crap for tournament success. Final 4s and titles talk...everything else walks.


My friend Phogy, we're not all that far off in our opinions, but we do have our disagreements. For the history of basketball there's only three truly blueblood schools, UK, KU and UNC. Because of Coach K, many now include Duke in that conversation. Had he not shown up Duke wouldn't be in the conversation. UCLA had a great run with Wooden, but not great consistency either direction from him. The rest are either Johnny come late, fading, never could quite get over the hump or just could never get going. I guess I could add to that those who have flashes of success. As I said in my post, each person can have their own criteria for measurement of success. You're welcomed to your own and I'm happy with mine. Here's to a great season next year.
Blue Bloods should include Indiana. Should not include UConn...IMO


Indiana has been a blueblood, but they are fading. Missed half of the tourney's the past 14 years and only reached the Sweet 16 three times when they have been in it.

Top
#2016885 - 04/17/17 03:20 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Fading or not, they ARE a blue blood. 3rd most valuable program in the country during 2017 analysis. 7th in NCAA both in tourney apps with 39 total and in tourney victories. 5 NCAA championships since 1940 tied for fourth in history (Duke). The records could go on forever. All recruits are staying committed to the new coach from UCLA post-Crean. Don't sell them short.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016887 - 04/17/17 04:38 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
Indiana has been a blueblood, but they are fading. Missed half of the tourney's the past 14 years and only reached the Sweet 16 three times when they have been in it.


Is Archie Miller really going to do anything to change that? I know he could win at Dayton, and he's got Sean Miller as a brother...what is he going to do to improve them?

He kept the 3 Crean guys committed, but they have a pretty weak class, IMO.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016890 - 04/17/17 08:57 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
Indiana has been a blueblood, but they are fading. Missed half of the tourney's the past 14 years and only reached the Sweet 16 three times when they have been in it.


Is Archie Miller really going to do anything to change that? I know he could win at Dayton, and he's got Sean Miller as a brother...what is he going to do to improve them?

He kept the 3 Crean guys committed, but they have a pretty weak class, IMO.

1952- KU & Indiana are ranked similar for 2017 247 composite rankings. Don't think that's weak
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016892 - 04/17/17 09:45 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
Indiana has been a blueblood, but they are fading. Missed half of the tourney's the past 14 years and only reached the Sweet 16 three times when they have been in it.


Is Archie Miller really going to do anything to change that? I know he could win at Dayton, and he's got Sean Miller as a brother...what is he going to do to improve them?

He kept the 3 Crean guys committed, but they have a pretty weak class, IMO.

1952- KU & Indiana are ranked similar for 2017 247 composite rankings. Don't think that's weak


I'm talking about what Indiana has done the past 14 years and that is considerably less than what they've done in years past. I don't have a clue as to what they might do this next year. If they have a great year, that is fine, but to be a true blueblood they will have to not only have a great year next year, they will have to continue to consistently do so. That's why UK, KU and UNC are truly bluebloods, they have been basically consistently good across many years. That's why they are a ways out ahead of the rest of the pack. I have to admit that I don't pay much attention to Indiana because I really don't have much interest in them, particularly the past 14 years or so. Now while Knight was there he at least kept things quite interesting. It has been 35 years since they've won a national championship.

Top
#2016894 - 04/17/17 11:50 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Indiana will never recover its former glory. The B1G is horrible.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016905 - 04/18/17 04:39 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
I think in the realm of historical value, Indiana and UCLA are blueblood types. UCONN is not, and won't be. My issue with those two schools are they have been relative average since each have hired many coaches since Knight and Wooden have been gone. Its the same criteria that will hang over Duke's head in a few years. Coach is the program, end point. If we are going to consider Arizona or UCONN, Michigan St then is a no brainer every bit a blueblood now.

Top
#2016916 - 04/18/17 09:14 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
No way. It's KU...Kentucky. .UNC...Duke current bluebloods. Indiana. .UCLA hasbeen bluebloods. ..UConn..Zona...MSU fringe at best but never achieved blueblood status. ..
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016922 - 04/19/17 04:35 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
There’s been some talk about who are the basketball bluebloods? That is a question that no single answer will satisfy everyone. I’ve compiled some stats that could give some insight in trying to answer that question. There are 20 schools being considered. There are some qualifications to be on the list. (1) No one was considered who did not have a history of at least 75 years. (2) A school had to either be in the top 20 total wins or (3) have multiple NCAA Tourney championships. Any school that can’t meet that criteria most certainly can’t be considered a blueblood. The criteria used in the stats are somewhat of a balance between season results and NCAA tourney results. The schools are listed in the order of total wins. I don’t consider every school listed as a blueblood. In fact I don’t consider most of them as being such. But it is a means of comparison. If there are any minor mistakes, they wouldn’t change to overall results.

School . . First . Total . . Win . . Conf. . Tourney. Tourney. Tourney. Tourney
. . . . . . . Season . Wins . . % . . .Champ . Champ . .Appear. . .Wins . . .Win %
UK . . . . 1903 . . 2,237 . . .765 . . . 49 . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . 56 . . . . .124 . . ..765
KU . . . . 1899 . . 2,217 . . .728 . . . 60 . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . 46 . . . . . .94 . . ..728
UNC. . . 1911 . . 2,206 . . .739 . . . 40 . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . 48 . . . . . 117. . . .739
Duke. . . 1906 . . 2,118 . . .708 . . . 27 . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . 41 . . . . .108 . . ..708
Temp .. . 1895 . . 1,895 . . .643 . . . 20 . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . 33 . . . . . .33 . . ..643
No.D. . . 1898 . . 1,868 . . .651 . . . . 1 . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . 36 . . . . . .38 . . ..651
UCLA. . 1920 . . .1,862 . . .695 . . . 37 . . . . . .11. . . . . . 48 . . . . . 103 . . ..695
Syrac.. . 1901 . . .1,861. . .679 . . . . 9 . . . . . . .1. . . . . . 38 . . . . . . 67 . . ..679
St. Jn.. . 1908 . . .1,817. . .645 . . . .14. . . . . . .0. . . . . . 29 . . . . . . 27 . . ..645
LouisV . 1912 . . .1,803. . .664 . . . .23. . . . . . . 3. . . . . . 42 . . . . . . 76 . . ..667
Azona . .1905. . . 1,789 . . .657. . . .28. . . . . . . 1. . . . . . 34 . . . . . . 56. . . .629
Illinois . .1906 . . .1,780 . . .644. . . .17. . . . . . . 0. . . . . . 30 . . . . . . 40. . . .644
BYU . . .1903 . . .1,764 . . .655. . . .27. . . . . . . 0. . . . . . 29 . . . . . . 15. . . .319
Indiana .1901 . . . 1,756. . .638. . . .22. . . . . . . 5. . . . . . 39 . . . . . . 68 . . . .638
Cin. . . . 1902 . . . 1,748. . .636. . . .27. . . . . . . 2. . . . . . 31 . . . . . . 45 . . . .600
Utah. . . 1909 . . . 1,743. . .642. . . .29. . . . . . . 1. . . . . . 29 . . . . . . 37 . . . .642
Vil . . . . 1920 . . . 1,711 . . .654. . . .11. . . . . . . 2. . . . . . 37 . . . . . . 58 . . . .617
UConn. 1901 . . . 1,666. . .644. . . .34 . . . . . . . 4. . . . . . 33 . . . . . . 59 . . . .663
M. St. . .1899 . . . 1,637. . .606. . . .13. . . . . . . 2. . . . . . 31 . . . . . . 64 . . . .687
Florida. .1915 . . . 1,396. . .564. . . . .7. . . . . . . 2. . . . . . 20 . . . . . . 44 . . . .709

After compiling the above stats, I gave a value of 1 - 20 in each column according to where each school was rated, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. The total of the ratings for each school in each column were then added and divided by seven to find the average for each school. The following stats show where each school ended up. The stats used are objective. There are also subjective considerations that one might use. Some might want to consider two or three levels of bluebood schools. I have no doubt that the first three schools listed are bluebloods. The next two very well could be. Beyond that it becomes less and less probable, thus the possibility of two or three levels.

School . . . Total . . Average
. . . . . . . . Compos. . Score
UK. . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . 1.29
UNC . . . . . .17. . . . . 2.43
KU . . . . . . . 25. . . . . 3.57
UCLA. . . . . 29. . . . . 4.14
Duke. . . . . .36. . . . . 5.14
Louisville. . .55. . . . . 7.86
Syracuse. . .59. . . . . 8.43
UConn. . . . .73. . . . 10.43
Indiana. . . . .77. . . . 11.00
Arizona . . . .78. . . . 11.14
Notre D . . . .88. . . . 12.57
Villinova .. . .90. . . . 12.86
Temple. . . . .92. . . . 13.14
Cincinnati. . .92. . . . 13.14
Michigan St. 94. . . . 13.43
Illinois . . . . .98. . . . 14.00
St. Johns. . . 99. . . . 14.14
Utah . . . . . .99 . . . . 14.14
BYU. . . . . .103. . . . 14.71
Florida . . . .106. . . . 15.14

There are some subjective aspects that might be considered for being a blueblood, such as tradition. I was surprised that UCLA ended up above Duke. However, keep in mind that UCLA had a decade of overwhelmingly great success. But that wasn’t the case before that decade nor after it. For that reason I would be more apt to consider Duke being a bluebood than I would UCLA. UConn had some flashes of success in winning four NCAA tourneys, but not a lot of consistency. In spite of winning two tourneys in a row Florida ended up at the bottom of the pile. Michigan State has had some really good seasons under Izzo, but before that not so good.

I know some will find great fault with what I’ve done, but that’s okay. They can gnash their teeth all they want, I enjoyed doing it and some of what I discovered surprised me.

Top
#2016923 - 04/19/17 04:43 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
You're crazy or bored. Can't determine which. Don't you have to plow the back 40. My much shorter post concerning bluebloods is accurate. Yours is just another waste of internet space. But if it made you happy that's swell...lol.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016924 - 04/19/17 04:53 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
You're crazy or bored. Can't determine which. Don't you have to plow the back 40. My much shorter post concerning bluebloods is accurate. Yours is just another waste of internet space. But if it made you happy that's swell...lol.


Your comments are only based upon what you think. That's probably a very dangerous thing for you to do to rely simply upon your mind. But each to his own. smile

Top
#2016925 - 04/19/17 06:17 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
At least I don't yammer on about useless point systems and warm and fuzzy statistics. That no matter what doesnt change the fact that KU underachieves in the tournament. Roi in 14 yrs at UNC has matched KU's history of 3 whomping NCAA Tournament titles. Keep crunching them numbers though. Lol.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016926 - 04/19/17 07:33 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
tl;dr


Basically, you are saying that KU is equivalent to Louisville. Sounds about right.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

Top
#2016933 - 04/20/17 01:07 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
tl;dr


Basically, you are saying that KU is equivalent to Louisville. Sounds about right.
Which dorm does Kansas keep the prostitutes?
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016937 - 04/20/17 06:34 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
tl;dr


Basically, you are saying that KU is equivalent to Louisville. Sounds about right.
Which dorm does Kansas keep the prostitutes?
Jayhawk Towers when I was an undergrad.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

Top
#2016938 - 04/20/17 10:05 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
Kansas just has unexplanable bad luck in the tourney. Roy had some great teams here, maybe some of the best ever to play here,and we couldn't get it done. Self has had some elite talent, and won a title. We have had just as talented teams flame out.

Success is determined off of Final 4's. That is the ultimate measuring stick. Putting aside Calipari's issues at UMass and Memphis, he had taken 3 different schools to the Final 4. Roy has taken two, and Pitino has taken 3. Self has taken one.

Again, not bagging on Self. He is a great coach. Don't want another guy standing on our sideline. However, he is not perfect and has not done anything that others haven't done. 13 in a row is a huge accomplishment, but its also a story of how Big 12 basketball doesn't have the talent level that others do. We have maybe the best conference for coaches, but fall short on extreme talent from 1-10 in teams. Baylor and us carry the talent core.

We are blessed to have Self here, and to have this program. I think SElf will break thru and win and make many Final 4's yet. He needs to figure out some things as well. Our teams can't enter Elite 8 games and continue to always be tight and afraid to win. Bluebloods are easy to figure out. Its based on all time winning and continued success. Thats leaves a few fine programs, and thats it.

Top
#2016941 - 04/21/17 02:21 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: 58hawk]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi

Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
tl;dr


Basically, you are saying that KU is equivalent to Louisville. Sounds about right.
Which dorm does Kansas keep the prostitutes?
Jayhawk Towers when I was an undergrad.


The sorority houses are where they tend to live now.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016942 - 04/21/17 04:04 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: 58hawk]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
tl;dr


Basically, you are saying that KU is equivalent to Louisville. Sounds about right.
Which dorm does Kansas keep the prostitutes?
Jayhawk Towers when I was an undergrad.
That explains some of your declining posts these days. Perhaps it can be cured!
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016945 - 04/21/17 05:01 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Tri-Delt house especially.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

Top
#2016960 - 04/23/17 09:55 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21

Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
tl;dr

Which dorm does Kansas keep the prostitutes?
Jayhawk Towers when I was an undergrad.

The sorority houses are where they tend to live now.
Personal experiences, huh?
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016961 - 04/23/17 04:48 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016962 - 04/23/17 05:23 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Was posting about Self. Now its turned into this stupid bull...s.hit. Self is a great B12 coach..a mediocre tournament coach. FACT...BOOM...DROPS MIKE.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016963 - 04/24/17 08:14 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
He definitely underwhelms compared to his seeding. Hopefully he gets it figured out in the tourney, and we start going to the final four or further more than once every 5-7 years.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2016964 - 04/24/17 08:43 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
I remember in the 90s Carolina went 5 times and we went twice. Man I was envious of the Turdheels back then. Guess I still am. Can beat them str8 up but they just know how to get to the F4 better.


Edited by PHOGUSHER (04/24/17 08:43 AM)
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016965 - 04/24/17 03:31 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: dgless21
He definitely underwhelms compared to his seeding. Hopefully he gets it figured out in the tourney, and we start going to the final four or further more than once every 5-7 years.
Very few other HOF type coaches out there to bring in as his replacement. Just this grateful fan's opine.

At least he didn't just win one meaningful game and get his salary immediately doubled.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016967 - 04/24/17 04:50 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Time to cause a little more gnashing of teeth and empty headed screaming by those that enjoy doing so. I suspect that an equal number, or more, enjoy looking at my stats. This post is for them. There’s no doubt that the best NCCA basketball team does not always win the championship. Here’s some more stats that give us a picture of the entire NCAA Tourney history. The facts are objective. The interpretations anyone makes from them is at least somewhat subjective.

The following stats are divided into four sections of 20 years for the first 60 tourneys and 19 for the last set making 79 years total of the championship teams and their win/loss records. They are then divided to show teams with zero losses, 1-3 losses, 4-6 losses, 7-9 losses and double digit losses. The information to the right shows the total and average of wins/losses and total and average games played. You can see that the average games played have moved from 30 per year to 39. Any discrepancies are due to rounding off.

1939 - 1958 Championship:
Teams with:. . 0 losses — 2 . .Total Wins/Losses of Champs:
Teams with: 1-3 losses – 11 . . . . . . 547 - 59 = 606 games
Teams with: 4-6 losses — 6 . .Average Wins/Losses of Champs:
Teams with: 7-9 losses — 1 . . . . . .27 - 3 = 30 games averaged
Teams with: DD losses— 0

1959 - 1978 Championship:
Teams with:. . 0 losses — 5 . .Total Wins/Losses of Champs:
Teams with: 1-3 losses – 13 . . . . . . 571 - 35 = 606 games
Teams with: 4-6 losses — 1 . .Average Wins/Losses of Champs:
Teams with: 7-9 losses — 1 . . . . . .29 - 2 = 31 games averaged
Teams with: DD losses — 0

1979 - 1998 Championship:
Teams with:. . 0 losses — 0 . .Total Wins/Losses of Champs:
Teams with: 1-3 losses — 7 . . . . . . 611 - 110 = 721 games
Teams with: 4-6 losses — 5 . .Average Wins/Losses of Champs:
Teams with: 7-9 losses — 5 . . . . . . 31 - 6 = 37 games averaged
Teams with: DD losses — 3

1999 - 2017 Championship:
Teams with:. . 0 losses — 0 . .Total Wins/Losses of Champs:
Teams with: 1-3 losses — 3 . . . . . . 643 - 99 = 742 games
Teams with: 4-6 losses – 12 . .Average Wins/Losses of Champs:
Teams with: 7-9 losses — 4 . . . . . . 34 - 5 = 39 games averaged
Teams with: DD losses — 0

From these stats we can probably assume that teams with zero losses were the best teams for that year. So were the teams with 1-3 losses, but not quite as certain. Teams with double digit losses were most likely not the best team of that year and the others with 4-9 losses are iffy in some cases. Just two examples show the likelihood that the best do not always win. In 2014 UConn (32-8) beat UK (38-1) in the championship game and in 1991 Duke (32-7) beat UNLV (34-1) in the simi-final game. In all likelihood the better teams did not win in those two years. In fact this is most likely true several times during the 79 years. Teams that had 0-3 losses won the championship 41 times and teams that had 4-11 losses won 38 times. There’s no way that teams with double digit losses were the best teams that year, but they won the necessary games through the tournament and became the champs. That’s not to say that the tournament isn’t exciting, it truly is, and part of the excitement is with such teams becoming the champs. So winning the tournament doesn’t necessarily mean the best team won. I don’t think anyone would argue against that. It’s really a crap shoot at times! At other times it is probably quite accurate.

Note the following stat for the tourney champs:

Total losses . . Number of times the champ
. . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
. .1 - 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34
. .4 - 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .24
. .7 - 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11
. .D. D. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3

For those wondering who the teams were and don’t want to take the time to look it up, I’ve listed the champs and their records for each season:

1939 Ore. . . .29 - 5 . . . 1940 Ind. . . . 20 - 3 . . . 1941 Wisc. . 20 - 3
1942 Stanf. . 28 - 4 . . . 1943 Wyom. .31 - 2 . . . 1944 Utah . . 21 - 4
1945 Ok St. . 27 - 2 . . . 1946 Ok St. . 31 - 2 . . . 1947 Hol C. .27 - 3
1948 UK . . . 36 - 3 . . . 1949 UK . . . . 32 -2 . . . 1950 CCNY 24 - 5
1951 UK . . . 32 - 2 . . . 1952 KU . . . . 28 - 3. . . 1953 Ind. . . .23 - 3
1954 La Sal .26 - 4 . . . 1955 San F. . . 28 - 1. . . 1956 San. F. .29 - 0
1957 UNC . .32 - 0 . . . 1958 UK . . . . 23 - 6. . . 1959 Cal. . . .25 - 4
1960 Oh.St. .25 - 3 . . . 1961 Cin. . . . .27 - 3. . . 1962 Cin. . . .29 - 2
1963 Loy. Il. 29 - 2. . . .1964 UCLA . .30 - 0. . . 1965 UCLA .28 - 2
1966 UTEP. 28 - 1. . . .1967 UCLA . . 30 - 0. . . 1968 UCLA. 29 - 1
1969 UCLA. .29 - 1. . . .1970 UCLA . . 28 - 2. . . 1971 UCLA. 29 - 1
1972 UCLA. .30 - 0. . . .1973 UCLA . . 30 - 0. . . 1974 NC St. .30 - 1
1975 UCLA. 28 - 3. . . .1976 Ind. . . . . 30 - 0. . . 1977 MaryL. 25 - 7
1978 UK . . . 30 - 2. . . .1979 Mich. St.26 - 6. . . 1980 LouisV 32 - 3
1981 Ind. . . . 26 - 9. . . .1982 UNC. . . 32 - 2. . . 1983 NC St. .26 -10
1984 G.town.34 - 3. . . . 1985 Vil. . . . 25 -10. . . 1986 LouisV.32 - 7
1987 Ind. . . .30 - 4 . . . .1988 KU. . . . 27 -11. . . 1989 Mich. . 30 - 7
1990 UNLV .35 - 5 . . . .1991 Duke. . . 32 - 7. . . 1992 Duke . . 34 - 2
1993 UNC . .34 - 4 . . . .1994 Ark. . . . 31 - 3. . . 1995 UCLA . 31 - 2
1996 UK . . . 34 - 2 . . . .1997 AZ . . . . 25 - 9. . . 1998 UK . . . .35 - 4
1999 UConn.34 - 2 . . . .2000 Mich.St. 32 - 7. . . 2001 Duke. . .35 - 4
2002 MaryL. 32 - 4 . . . .2003 Syracu. .30 - 5. . . 2004 UConn. 33 - 6
2005 UNC . .33 - 4 . . . .2006 Florida . 33 - 6. . . 2007 Florida. 35 - 5
2008 KU . . . 37 - 3 . . . .2009 UNC . . .34 - 4. . . 2010 Duke . . 35 - 5
2011 UConn.32 - 9 . . . .2012 UK . . . . 38 - 2 . . .2013 LouisV. 35 - 5
2014 UConn.32 - 8 . . . .2015 Duke. . . 35 - 4 . . .2016 Vil. . . . .35 - 5
2017 UNC . .33 - 7


Edited by Jayhawk1952 (04/24/17 07:56 PM)

Top
#2016968 - 04/24/17 05:21 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Errr...uhhhh...ok. Oh and it's gnashing of teeth...not gashing of teeth. You're welcome.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016971 - 04/24/17 08:00 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Errr...uhhhh...ok. Oh and it's gnashing of teeth...not gashing of teeth. You're welcome.
Sorry. Typo. Thanks. Fixed.

Top
#2016972 - 04/24/17 08:45 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
No problem. And did you really have to type all that out only to prove that the teams with superior win seasons won more championships. In other words simple logic. Not too sure what you were going for with that lengthy diatribe.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2016973 - 04/24/17 10:35 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
No problem. And did you really have to type all that out only to prove that the teams with superior win seasons won more championships. In other words simple logic. Not too sure what you were going for with that lengthy diatribe.


Just having a little fun to begin with. Also, I like to see things in black and white. Sometimes we learn something when all the stats are laid out before us. It verified what I already knew and I saw some things that I didn't know before. I was a bit surprised that almost half of the champs lost 4 or more games during the season and almost 20% lost 6 or more games. It was also interesting to note that during the first 38 seasons there were 7 seasons in which the champ lost zero games. The past 41 seasons there have been zero who have had a non-losing season.

Top
#2016985 - 04/25/17 06:33 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: dgless21
He definitely underwhelms compared to his seeding. Hopefully he gets it figured out in the tourney, and we start going to the final four or further more than once every 5-7 years.
Very few other HOF type coaches out there to bring in as his replacement. Just this grateful fan's opine.

At least he didn't just win one meaningful game and get his salary immediately doubled.
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: dgless21
He definitely underwhelms compared to his seeding. Hopefully he gets it figured out in the tourney, and we start going to the final four or further more than once every 5-7 years.
Very few other HOF type coaches out there to bring in as his replacement. Just this grateful fan's opine.

At least he didn't just win one meaningful game and get his salary immediately doubled.
You're going to beat that dead horse so hard that you will dismember it.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

Top
#2016990 - Yesterday at 10:50 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Beating up horses is what I do!
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016992 - Yesterday at 02:54 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
You are what is considered in sports fan terms as a "highsider". In other words you only support a winner and when the winner doesn't achieve to your standards to drop them like a hot potato i.e. KU football.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

Top
#2016994 - Yesterday at 04:28 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: 58hawk]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
You are what is considered in sports fan terms as a "highsider". In other words you only support a winner and when the winner doesn't achieve to your standards to drop them like a hot potato i.e. KU football.
Your words are English but the definition is so far off as to not be taken seriously. Quit beating that dead horse. I believe I knew Beaty should've been an asst coach first for more experience. I support KU sports good or bad. Our football is bad.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

Top
#2016995 - Yesterday at 05:16 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Records for the past 30 years of the top four all time winningness teams. First the wins and win % is shown for each of the last three decades as well as the NCCA Tourney Titles. Then those numbers for the last combined two decades and then the last combined three decades. The top team in each category is underlined. I didn’t consider any other teams as I seriously doubt that any had the same success or consistency of these four. This would also indicate that these are the bluebloods of the past 30 years as well as of all time.

Team . . . . . . . . . . . KU . . Duke . .UNC. . .UK
2007-2017 wins. . . 311 . . 296 . . . 292 . . .289
2007-2017 win% - -.845 - - .811 - - .804 - - .785
2007-2017 TT . . . . .1 . . . . 2 . . . . . 2 . . . . .1

1997-2007 wins. . . 266 . . 302 . . . 239 . . . 263
1997-2007 win% - -.787 - - .846 - - .703 - - .760
1997-2007 TT . . . . .0 . . . . 1 . . . . . 1 . . . . .1

1987-1997 wins. . . 240 . . 230 . . . 268 . . . 247
1987-1997 win% - -.782 - - .742 - - -.772 - - .769
1987-1997 TT . . . . .1 . . . . 2 . . . . . 1 . . . . .1

1997-2017 wins. . .577 . . 598 . . . 531 . . . 552
1997-2017 win% - .817 - - .831 - - -.757 - - .773
1997-2017 TT . . . . .1 . . . . 3 . . . . . 2 . . . . .2

1987-2017 wins. . . 817 . . 828 . . . 799 . . . 799
1987-2017 win% - -.807 - -.804 - - -.761 - - .772
1987-2017 TT . . . . .2 . . . . 5 . . . . . 4 . . . . .3

The next set of stats show how each team ranked in wins and win % during each of the three decades and the two combined decades. It shows that KU and Duke are clearly the most consistent of the four and are fairly even with KU slightly ahead. UNC and UK are also closely clumped together. A 4.0 would equal all number ones in ranking, 3.0 an exact average of number two, 2.0 an exact average of three and 1.00 all number fours in ranking in the following stats.

Ranked . 1st . . 2nd . . 3rd . . 4th . Average Ranking
KU . . . . .4. . . .5. . . . 1. . . .0. . . . . . . .3.3
Duke . . . 5. . . .3. . . . 0. . . .2. . . . . . . .3.1
UNC. . . .1. . . .1. . . . 3 . . . 5. . . . . . . .1.7
UK . . . . .0 . . . 1. . . . 7 . . . 2 . . . . . . . 1.4

The following stats show how each team ranked in tournament titles during each of the three decades and the two combined decades. The Combined Average averages the season rankings and the tournament titles. This shows Duke and UNC doing the best with tournament titles with UK and KU following. The Combined Average shows Duke ahead followed by KU, UNC and UK. The past 3 decades these four schools only lack one title from having exactly one half of the 30 tourney titles.At least one of these four have been in the Final Four 27 times, leaving only three times that at least one of these teams weren't in the Final Four. That's dominance!

Ranked . 1st ..2nd . . 3rd . . 4th . Ave. Rank. . Comb. Ave.
Duke. . . .5 . .0 . . . 0. . . . 0 . . . . 4.0 . . . . . . . . 3.4
KU . . . . .0 . .1 . . . 1. . . . 3 . . . . 1.6 . . . . . . . . 2.7
UNC. . . .2 . .3 . . . 0. . . . 0 . . . . 3.4 . . . . . . . . 2.3
UK . . . . .1 . .2 . . . 2. . . . 0 . . . . 2.8 . . . . . . . . 2.2

All time games won and winning percentage of the top four teams:

UK . . 2,237 and .765
KU . . 2,217 and .725
UNC. 2,206 and .739
Duke. 2,115 and .708

No other teams have more than 1,886 wins or over a .692 average. Another reason to consider these four the blueboods.

An interesting note. If Naismith had believed in coaching and had achieved a .696 winning percentage instead of his .478, KU would be tied with UK in total wins and we’d have a .732 winning percentage.

Top
#2017001 - Yesterday at 10:15 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Pretty sure you didn't have to type all of that to prove those 4 teams are true bluebloods. Bill ain't worried about it...he is partying it up at Quintons as we post.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2017003 - Yesterday at 10:48 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
No matter how any one person defines KU as a program, its under achieved in March. Thats what we do, and have done. Self is trying a different approach for the next two seasons. I don't like it, but its an aggressive approach and I do like when people want something and go after it. Most won't say they don't like this approach, but we are also tired of being underachievers in March.
Our history does nothing to explain how great we have been and are in the regular season. It screams loud in bold that we don't compare to others in March. its just not Self, its been everyone since Phog.

Top
#2017005 - Today at 04:06 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Wtf are you talking about 10 of our Final 4s have been since Phog. But you are right by our seeding and results KU has underachieved in the Tournament. Especially Bill..hopefully that's going to change.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2017006 - Today at 04:09 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
And to be honest I don't like Bill using 3 schollies actually 4 on transfer players. Especially since 2 of them can't even play next season. Seems like an Iowee St. tactic.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Top
#2017007 - Today at 08:21 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
Unless I missed something -- Three of them can't play next season: KJ & Dedric Lawson and Moore. I doubt that Moore gets approved for the hardship waiver.

Cunliffe will be out until semester.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

Top
#2017008 - Today at 11:11 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jaycat92 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/28/14
Loc: Nebraska
I get what Self is doing by getting transfers with high upside. What I don't like about it is the fact that they sit for a whole year. Whose to say that the Lawsons won't turn pro after sitting out for a year and practicing under Self? Can anyone guarantee that won't happen?

This thread is ok for defending Self against those who want him gone. Frankly thats just silly to begin with. However in proving how great Self is, your showing how sub par he is in March given his seedings and actual performance numbers in that time frame.

KU has a spell on it in March. We seem to win every 20 years or so. I have watched us win two titles so far in my lifetime and feel fortunate for that. Roy's tenure here by far had more woes in it than Bills has had so far. I watched Roy's teams, who had superior talent compared to most any team in college ball, flame out in worse fashion. Pierce/Lafrentz era was awesome to watch. Those team were maybe some of the best ever in my opinion here to never even sniff a Final 4. Might even be on best ever level no matter what judging system you use. So Bill's lack of tourney success is glaring, but in some ways not near as glaring as what Roy had here to work with for so many years.

Top
#2017009 - Today at 12:36 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jaycat92]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
The jury is out on Self's decisions and it will slowly trickle in during the next 1, 2 and 3 years. For next year he must be really satisfied with what he already has, with or without Svi, most likely with.

For year 2 he must be highly confident that the 3 sit outs will really come through and fit in with those returning.

By year 3 a lot of unknowns can pop up, good or bad.

So all we can do is wait and see. Achieving 1 - 3 tourney titles, extending the streak to 14, 15 or 16 and perhaps even a 40-0 season tossed in during the next 3 years would make him seem like a genius. I'm not predicting any of this, but am hoping for at least some of it. Time will tell. I am glad that he is our coach.

Top
#2017010 - Today at 01:27 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Here in the 21st century, next years roster is always a question mark. OAD's. Voluntary transfers. Forced out transfers. Graduate transfers. Next years roster is always a question mark. That's the way it rolls in the 21st century.

This ain't that dinosaur age of the 20th century when you knew what your roster was going to look like.

Only poosies expect to know in advance what next years roster should look like.

Top
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

Preview