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#2016602 - 04/04/17 03:23 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: PHOGUSHER]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
You're the one that needs the fish oil. I am the one that caught your mistake,. And who outside of West and maybe one other complains about Bill's tournament failures around here. I know the local yokels have to pump up themselves about all things Kansas for that warm fuzzy feeling. Really outside of KU basketball the state ain't got much going on. That's why they call it flyover country. Try going on a vacation and quit obsessing about Bill's greatness. Bottom line in as far as closing the deal tournament wise. Roy owns him.


What honest person would want to say that they have never made a mistake? I've made plenty in my life time.

No, Roy doesn't own Bill. When comparing them to the same school (KU) record and similar age wise record, Roy never achieved a championship and Self has. In the days to come we won't be able to compare them school to school, but we will be able to age to age. I expect that Bill will get several more championships in the days to come. Roy doesn't have all that many years left, maybe five or so.

There is a lot to see in Kansas. I've been all over the state and have enjoyed various kinds of and unique scenes and there's a lot I haven't yet seen. Only stuffy East and West coast personnel and other characters consider Kansas just a flyover state. That's their loss.

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#2016603 - 04/04/17 03:29 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: KUCO_VOC]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Actually J1952 posts here were very informative to see the greats in the college game coaching wise. Keep it up for us folks who read the things!

Bill Self can coach here even with a geographical recruiting disadvantage by N C, Duke.


Thanks for your positive words.

Actually Phogy is a pretty good guy, sometimes you just have to take him with a grain of salt . He does like to try and get under your skin sometimes, but then he'll come back and say something positive. He's even responded in a positive way on this post. So I just put up with his antics and consider him a friend.

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#2016604 - 04/04/17 03:37 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
I actually enjoy history and looking up statistics from the past. I'm glad that a few like some of my more lengthy posts that put these stats together. Trust that there is something positive to glean from them. There's nothing wrong with looking at the past as long as one doesn't live in it. There is a lot to learn from the past, but the problem is that too many don't seem to learn from it. That applies to all aspects of life.

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#2016605 - 04/04/17 04:07 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: vikingbomber]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: vikingbomber
As I pointed out, you can go 3-1 in the tournament and lose to a lower seed in the E8, and have a .750 winning percentage. That doesn't mean you've had a good tournament.

Originally Posted By: dgless21
Originally Posted By: vikingbomber
Self is a great coach, but a top-notch tournament coach? No, he is not.


I guess that depends on your definition of "top-notch."

He wins 70% of his games in the tournament which ranks 6th amongst active college coaches.

K, Roy, Cal, Pitino, Izzo...then Self.


You are talking to people who are also crowing about beating up on the Truckstop 10 as if it's a major accomplishment.
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

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#2016606 - 04/04/17 04:09 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
JimWest Offline
))<>((

Registered: 11/29/12
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
There is a lot to see in Kansas. I've been all over the state and have enjoyed various kinds of and unique scenes and there's a lot I haven't yet seen. Only stuffy East and West coast personnel and other characters consider Kansas just a flyover state. That's their loss.


And where do you think the talent comes from? The fields of western Kansas? lol
_________________________
I'm the slickest they is
I'm the quickest they is
Did I say I'm the slickest they is?

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#2016607 - 04/04/17 04:45 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
Originally Posted By: JimWest
Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
There is a lot to see in Kansas. I've been all over the state and have enjoyed various kinds of and unique scenes and there's a lot I haven't yet seen. Only stuffy East and West coast personnel and other characters consider Kansas just a flyover state. That's their loss.


And where do you think the talent comes from? The fields of western Kansas? lol


It's come from all over the nation including Kansas, just as it is with all other major basketball schools. And some of those who have done quite well in other schools have come from Kansas. Not saying that Kansas is the hotbed for recruiting, but we've contributed some excellent talent across the years throughout the nation.

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#2016621 - 04/05/17 09:27 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: JimWest]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
Originally Posted By: JimWest
You are talking to people who are also crowing about beating up on the Truckstop 10 as if it's a major accomplishment.


I have no love for our conference. I don't consider it to be a "major accomplishment" to win it. It's a noteworthy accomplishment, but it's no national title.

We all want more NCs and final fours...but the question is who could you replace him with that's better?

Realistically, who would win in the tournament at a higher clip that we could get at KU?
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2016622 - 04/05/17 10:09 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: dgless21
I have no love for our conference. I don't consider it to be a "major accomplishment" to win it. It's a noteworthy accomplishment, but it's no national title.


The BIG 8/12 was, is and always will be one of the best basketball conferences in the country.

You won't have to "not love" our conference for much longer. There is no doubt in my mind that the BIG 12 will die with the current grant of rights. Then you can "love" our conference when we join some other that will spread us out over multiple time zones spanning thousands of miles. Matchups night in and night out against nobody schools that we have absolutely no history with. Yea. Love it when we travel to utah for an 11:00pm showdown on a Tuesday night. Love it when we travel to rutgers for a grudge match. Yea. Can hardly wait.

I'll give it to you that winning our conference is not equal to winning the national championship. But winning what conference is?

HCBS is one of the top 5 college basketball coaches in the country.



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#2016623 - 04/05/17 11:07 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
It was the best conference a few years ago. KU, UT, and OU are the only schools that I think highly of. aTm, CU, Missouri, and Nebraska were worthwhile once upon a time.

Of course, every team wants to win the conference, but it is watered down by the importance of the tournament in college basketball. Until the NCAA makes the regular season more meaningful, the conference championship is secondary to tournament outcomes. It's hard to have any love for conference titles due to the current format and lack of exclusivity in the tournament.

I absolutely agree that Self is at worst the 6th best coach in college basketball. Roy, K, Izzo, Cal, and Pitino are the only ones you could argue are equal or better.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2016625 - 04/05/17 11:11 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
Maximus Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Nice data. Still need some a little help from a graphic artist. More pictures and entertainment.
_________________________
Your enemies will know your quality where ever you meet them.

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#2016626 - 04/05/17 11:43 AM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Of course, every team wants to win the conference, but it is watered down by the importance of the tournament in college basketball. Until the NCAA makes the regular season more meaningful, the conference championship is secondary to tournament outcomes. It's hard to have any love for conference titles due to the current format and lack of exclusivity in the tournament.


The importance of winning the regular season is not watered down for me. It is not watered down for HCBS. It is not watered down for the student athletes. It likely is watered down for the millennial snowflakes that have the attention span of a gnat and a brain the size of a pea. But for those of us that know we need to enjoy the jouney, it is not watered down.

It's too bad you millennial snowflakes don't have the makeup to enjoy the journey. You missed a ton of fun along the road to the tourney. The indiana game was fun. Beating duke in the champions classic was fun. beating khintuckey in khintuckey was fun. Beating isu at isu was fun. that home game against wvu was fun. And so forth.

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#2016628 - 04/05/17 02:30 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: MICHHAWK]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
See if you can follow along on this: I said it is watered down by the importance of the tournament, and the regular season is secondary to the tournament. I did not say or suggest the players, coaches, fans, you, or me don't care about the regular season. I did not say or suggest that those games weren't fun or that the journey doesn't matter. Not sure where you got that from.

You disagreed with points I didn't make, and then you attempt to insult me because you disagree with the points I didn't make. Must be a generational gap thing.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2016629 - 04/05/17 03:40 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: dgless21]
MICHHAWK Online   content
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
I follow just fine. The snowflakes will flush a great journey right down the crapper if their team does not win it all in March-April. I follow just fine.

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#2016630 - 04/05/17 04:05 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: MICHHAWK]
Jayhawk1952 Online   content
John Brown

Registered: 01/18/08
How well does the Big 12 stack up with the top 6 Basketball conferences? JW says we are a mid-major conference. What do the records show? I checked with three different sources: Jeff Sagarin Ratings, NCAA Final RPI Ratings and the Final NCAA Poll. All three basically have the same results. Check with any other source, the results will be similar. So, to save space, I will just use the Jeff Sagarin Ratings as many consider he does an excellent job with his ratings. The following show how many each conference had in the top 10, 20, 30, 60 and 70, plus what percent of the teams made the top 10, 20, 30, 60 and 70:

----------------Big 12 –- ACC –- SEC – Pac 12 – B. East – Big 10
Top 10
Record .... 2/10 ...... 3/15 .... 2/14 .... 1/12 ..... 1/10 ...... 0/14
Percent ... .200 ...... .200 .... .143 ..... .083 ..... .100 ...... .000

Top 20
Record .... 4/10 ...... 4/15 .... 2/14 ..... 3/12 ..... 1/10 ...... 2/14
Percent ... .333 ...... .267 .... .143 ..... .225 ..... .100 ...... .143

Top 30
Record .... 6/10 ...... 8/15 ..... 2/14 ..... 3/12 ..... 4/10 ...... 3/14
Percent ... .600 ...... .533 ..... .143 ..... .225 ..... .400 ...... .214

Top 60
Record ..... 9/10 ... 12/15 ..... 7/14 ..... 6/12 ..... 7/10 ....... 8/14
Percent .... .900 ..... .800 ..... .500 ..... .500 ..... .700 ....... .571

Top 70
Record ... 10/10 ... 12/15 .... 10/14 ..... 7/12 ...... 8/10 .... 11/14
Percent ... 1.000 .... .800 ...... .714 ..... .583 ...... .800 ...... .786

Top 90
Record ... 10/10 ... 15/15 .... 12/14 ..... 8/12 ...... 8/10 .... 12/14
Percent ... 1.000 ... 1.000 ..... .857 ...... .667 ...... .800 ..... .857
I just added the Top 90 in case someone was thinking I was cherry picking by stopping at the Top 70.

Note–the Big 12 has the highest percentage in four of the results and tied for the highest in one with the ACC. This also gives a pretty good view of each conference from top to bottom. Even the Big 12 bottom dwellers make the top 70. These results are not my opinion nor JW’s, but someone who is an expert in this field and it is verified by other experts. I guess if the Big 12 is a mid-major conference, so are the other five.


Edited by Jayhawk1952 (04/05/17 05:58 PM)

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#2016631 - 04/05/17 04:10 PM Re: Self – A Top Notch Tourney/Season Coach [Re: Jayhawk1952]
dgless21 Online   mad
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
I follow just fine. The snowflakes will flush a great journey right down the crapper if their team does not win it all in March-April. I follow just fine.

Do you really enjoy arguing these points that no one made?
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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