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#2015407 - 02/28/17 05:08 PM Recruiting HS OL & HS DL
pizzanbeer Online   content
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 07/03/09
Other teams had success poaching our HS OL and HS DL recruits after they gave KU a verbal commit. What strategy changes can Beaty make for HS OL & HS DL players so they stick to their verbal commits and sign with KU?

The early graduation and early enrollment works well. They should target OL and DL players where that is an option. Make sure Mom and Dad visit with the recruit so the whole family is onboard with the decision to commit. The secret recruitment and silent verbal like they did with the JC WR from Cali was a good idea. They also could target under the radar players and offer them closer to signing day using a silent verbal. That would cut down on other schools using us as a bird dog.

I think it will take a combination of these tactics to turn the tide. I hope Beaty runs HS OL and DL recruiting like special ops. I'm tired of other teams stealing our HS OL and HS DL recruits. Kirby on Slant won't like it but Beaty needs to keep most of his HS OL and DL recruiting top secret until signing day. Any other ideas?


Edited by pizzanbeer (02/28/17 05:23 PM)

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#2015420 - 02/28/17 08:20 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
I don't know if there's a whole lot KU can do other than get guys who give more solid commitments.

In the past couple of years it's been the case of OU swooping in and stealing them from us as they let KU do all the real scouting work and then follow up with a piggyback offer on top of KU's offer. At this point in time, that's a tall order for KU to hold OU off for many of these recruits.

Also, last year it appears that Hocker was just using KU as a place holder and not seriously committed at all. If he got no other offers, he'd have stayed with KU, but as he got more offers he thought were better in his mind he committed to 2 or 3 more schools until he got what he thought was his best offer, aTm, and signed with them. Not sure KU would want a kid like that who's only motivation was pure selfishness and not really a team 1st oriented type guy. Nothing wrong with recruits looking out for themselves, but he seemed to be at the extreme end on that spectrum which doesn't really jive with the locker room atmosphere here at KU right now.

Also, the other early OL commit we had seemed like another place holder type guy, but a little bit different than Hocker. He seemed like he felt pressure to commit out of fear right after Hocker had committed, because he thought if he didn't he would be left out. Once he got more offers, he too started wavering.

This all applies mostly to recruits in our more traditional recruiting areas of KS, MO, OK, and TX. The Louisiana guys we've been getting in on already have a ton of offers and OU doesn't have the sway they do in KS, OK, and TX, or even MO. In a weird way, KU has a better chance at getting some good OL and/or DL out of Louisiana right now.

It's probably difficult to try and weed out the guys who look to be using KU as a place holder. I think the biggest things that will help are showing continued improvement on the field and building off our current recruiting momentum. I think a lot of these recruits will be more confident and more committed as they see these other very highly rated recruits committing to us. Obviously, winning more games helps as well.

Either way, all KU can do is shoot for the guys highest on the recruiting board and if it doesn't work out, go on to the next guys on the list.

Lastly, I think KU is in good position on a couple of DL out of MO in addition to Crook-Jones who's obviously already committed. I think Crook-Jones is solid in his commitment too. Heard he talked it over with his mother for a couple days before he committed and she gave her blessing. Mom's blessing (see Ja'Marr Chase) always helps make a commitment more solid!
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"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2015423 - 02/28/17 08:37 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
At least we are talking KU sports here!
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Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2015427 - 02/28/17 09:05 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
It seems our best OL are JUCOs or players that are recruited for other positions in the last handful of years. Beaty OL come a lot from walk ons which is somewhat encouraging and also somewhat scary.

Yenser seems like he's the first OL coach that can coach to improve size since Warriner.

Reagan, Grunhardt, and Grimes never really showed me much of anything worthwhile.

DT is similar. We seem like lately JUCOs are our preferred method because we get overlooked or get players poached or outrecruited by Nebraska, OU, and LSU on HS DT recruits. Newell, McKinney, Bledsoe, and Jenkins all still sting a bit. The turnover in staff on the DL isn't ideal either.
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#2015436 - 03/01/17 11:11 AM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Kinda forgot about the McKinney deal. That's another example of how important the parents of recruits are.

His brother encouraged him to choose KU and it seemed like he too wanted to go to KU, but then 1 of his parents stepped in and "encouraged" him(I'm being a bit polite here. LOL) not to go to KU. Not blaming his parents at all here for anything (though it did SUCK that he ended up going somewhere else), but just goes to show how important the parents are in the recruitment of a lot of players.

In Bledsoe's case it was just the opposite. Seemed he wanted to get out of Dodge no matter what, while his mom wanted him to go to KU. Again, the parent-child relationship played a big role here IMHO.

It's tricky and I've often been told by numerous people in and around the college football scene that recruiting DL, especially DT's, and OL, more so OT's, are 2 of the toughest positions to recruit in college football. I see no reason to doubt that and a lot of schools struggle to get their 1st or even 2nd choices at those positions. That's the biggest reason why KU has gone the JUCO route for a few of these guys over the last few years. Just gotta keep recruiting and get the best players or players with the best potential, you can at those positions.

I still feel good about our chances with a couple more of the Missouri recruits. I think we're in the mix for a couple others still as well, who'd I would be happy if KU could get them. Recently heard Nelson Jenkins, our brief commit from Louisiana, talked up KU in an article asking him about his LSU commitment. So, even though he backed out, he still had positive things to say about KU which doesn't hurt.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2015456 - 03/01/17 08:21 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: Kman_blue]
pizzanbeer Online   content
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
I don't know if there's a whole lot KU can do other than get guys who give more solid commitments

Also, last year it appears that Hocker was just using KU as a place holder and not seriously committed at all.

This all applies mostly to recruits in our more traditional recruiting areas of KS, MO, OK, and TX. The Louisiana guys we've been getting in on already have a ton of offers and OU doesn't have the sway they do in KS, OK, and TX, or even MO. In a weird way, KU has a better chance at getting some good OL and/or DL out of Louisiana right now.

Either way, all KU can do is shoot for the guys highest on the recruiting board and if it doesn't work out, go on to the next guys on the list.


I agree that KU should get verbal commitments that are more solid. Part of that is getting to know the OL/DL players better before KU accepts a verbal. That would cut down on some of the place holder recruits. Yenser has been at KU long enough to establish relationships with HS recruits so I expect better results on HS OL recruiting in this class.

Beatys best decision was hiring Hull. His connections have really paid off. Plenty of talent in The Boot and KU does not have to fight off as many Big 12 schools.

I disagree with your last point. What you describe works for OU or Texas but it is not that simple for KU. Beaty needs to use more strategy in recruiting HS OL and HS DL to get better results. I believe Beaty realizes that and is making staff adjustments and strategy changes to improve results.

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#2015457 - 03/01/17 08:36 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: dgless21]
pizzanbeer Online   content
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 07/03/09
Originally Posted By: dgless21
Beaty OL come a lot from walk ons which is somewhat encouraging and also somewhat scary.

Yenser seems like he's the first OL coach that can coach to improve size since Warriner.

DT is similar. We seem like lately JUCOs are our preferred method because we get overlooked or get players poached or outrecruited by Nebraska, OU, and LSU on HS DT recruits. Newell, McKinney, Bledsoe, and Jenkins all still sting a bit. The turnover in staff on the DL isn't ideal either.


I like how Beaty has used walk ons to build up the OL but he needs to take the next step this year with more talented OL recruits. I think Beaty and Yenser moved away from under sized OL recruits in the last class. Williams is a more established DL coach and he is a step towards more stability.

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#2015462 - 03/01/17 08:42 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
We haven't had staff stability in three years. Just sayin
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Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2015467 - 03/01/17 09:37 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: Kman_blue]
PbBut Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 10/30/04
Loc: 66227
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
It's tricky and I've often been told by numerous people in and around the college football scene that recruiting DL, especially DT's, and OL, more so OT's, are 2 of the toughest positions to recruit in college football. I see no reason to doubt that and a lot of schools struggle to get their 1st or even 2nd choices at those positions. That's the biggest reason why KU has gone the JUCO route for a few of these guys over the last few years. Just gotta keep recruiting and get the best players or players with the best potential, you can at those positions.


I gotta agree, especially about the interior defensive line. The guys who are obvious stars in HS are all pursued by the blue blood football programs and most of the rest end up with projects. There's nothing wrong with that but it just doesn't work out as often. The last DL we had drafted was David McMillan in 2005, the last DT we had drafted was Nate Dwyer in 2002, and he never played in the NFL. The last DT KU had drafted and played was Maumalanga....in 1994. Alabama on the other hand, had two DTs drafted in the 2nd round last year.

That's not saying we haven't had some decent DL in those years, but they succeeded with toughness and grit rather than WOW people with athleticism and strength.
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98% of all Nebraska fans give the rest a bad name.

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#2015468 - 03/01/17 10:02 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: PbBut]
appyhawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/17/04
Loc: Flint Hills
Originally Posted By: PbBut
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
It's tricky and I've often been told by numerous people in and around the college football scene that recruiting DL, especially DT's, and OL, more so OT's, are 2 of the toughest positions to recruit in college football. I see no reason to doubt that and a lot of schools struggle to get their 1st or even 2nd choices at those positions. That's the biggest reason why KU has gone the JUCO route for a few of these guys over the last few years. Just gotta keep recruiting and get the best players or players with the best potential, you can at those positions.


I gotta agree, especially about the interior defensive line. The guys who are obvious stars in HS are all pursued by the blue blood football programs and most of the rest end up with projects. There's nothing wrong with that but it just doesn't work out as often. The last DL we had drafted was David McMillan in 2005, the last DT we had drafted was Nate Dwyer in 2002, and he never played in the NFL. The last DT KU had drafted and played was Maumalanga....in 1994. Alabama on the other hand, had two DTs drafted in the 2nd round last year.

That's not saying we haven't had some decent DL in those years, but they succeeded with toughness and grit rather than WOW people with athleticism and strength.


Topically relevant from GM Schneider of Seattle:
"“When you go to colleges and you talk to the coaches, they struggle to find offensive linemen,” Schneider said. “Everyone wants to play quarterback and running back and defensive line. It’s just how the football culture is right now...“There’s just a dearth at the position. There just has been for a number of years now."
http://www.seahawks.com/news/2017/03/01/...017-nfl-combine
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"Better to do less well than more poorly." Appy

www.cappersoverlay.com





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#2015479 - 03/02/17 09:38 AM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
I don't know if there's a whole lot KU can do other than get guys who give more solid commitments

Also, last year it appears that Hocker was just using KU as a place holder and not seriously committed at all.

This all applies mostly to recruits in our more traditional recruiting areas of KS, MO, OK, and TX. The Louisiana guys we've been getting in on already have a ton of offers and OU doesn't have the sway they do in KS, OK, and TX, or even MO. In a weird way, KU has a better chance at getting some good OL and/or DL out of Louisiana right now.

Either way, all KU can do is shoot for the guys highest on the recruiting board and if it doesn't work out, go on to the next guys on the list.


I agree that KU should get verbal commitments that are more solid. Part of that is getting to know the OL/DL players better before KU accepts a verbal. That would cut down on some of the place holder recruits. Yenser has been at KU long enough to establish relationships with HS recruits so I expect better results on HS OL recruiting in this class.

Beatys best decision was hiring Hull. His connections have really paid off. Plenty of talent in The Boot and KU does not have to fight off as many Big 12 schools.

I disagree with your last point. What you describe works for OU or Texas but it is not that simple for KU. Beaty needs to use more strategy in recruiting HS OL and HS DL to get better results. I believe Beaty realizes that and is making staff adjustments and strategy changes to improve results.
I should clarify what I meant to say when I said, "all KU can do is shoot for the guys highest on the recruiting board". I meant the KU recruiting board, not some national or even regional recruiting board or a recruiting website's positional top ranked players list or something.

It looks to me the coaching staff has made offers to some top level DL and OL recruits who they think they have a legit shot at and not just thrown out offers to top ranked guys because they're top ranked guys. Some of these recruits have more or less said thanks but no thanks and KU has moved on to the next highest targets on their (the KU) list. That's what I meant is all KU can do.

The good thing right now, or at least the thing that gives me some hope is that a lot of these higher rated guys aren't saying thanks, but no thanks to KU at the moment. Quite a few are showing serious interest and some have made visits already. I'd love to get em all, but I'd be happy if KU got a few of the guys showing us serious interest right now. I know at least 2 of the top Missouri DL have KU in their top 3 lists right now and KU has already gotten a commitment from another. The state of Missouri is loaded this year in football recruits BTW. Maybe the best crop of HS football recruits ever in Missouri.

I'm also not sure if KU had the luxury to not take a commitment from a recruit because the coaches weren't certain how solid it was. KU just didn't and really still doesn't have enough scholarship level players on the team to refuse a commitment from someone they suspect may be a place holder type commitment. The staff does look like they keep recruiting other guys in case that's the case though. I don't think they were caught without a backup plan when those guys decommitted last year.
_________________________
"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2015503 - 03/02/17 04:35 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Wendy's Free Wifi
I wouldn't complain if Trevor Trout jumped on board (pun intended).

I doubt he was one of the Missouri DL you mentioned though.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2015504 - 03/02/17 04:41 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
It still means we need to win some games to get rock solid commits for Kansas.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2015510 - 03/02/17 06:12 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
INation Offline
Thunderhawk

Registered: 09/20/14
If KU had averaged 6-8 wins or more over the last couple seasons we would be more likely to hold on to those linemen. Winning cures alot.

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#2015512 - 03/02/17 06:29 PM Re: Recruiting HS OL & HS DL [Re: pizzanbeer]
AlOerter Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/02/13
Trending in the right direction. I believe in David Beaty. I would want to play for that guy.
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