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#2009290 - 08/24/16 01:33 PM Most Improved - Offense or Defense?
pizzanbeer Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 07/03/09
Do you think offense or defense will improve the most this season? I think defense will improve the most because our OL is still shaky. It looked like our DL was making progress last season and I expect that to continue with the additions of Holani and Davis. Armstrong should be better too. Plus they added some quality CBs in Mayberry and Lee so we also should see improvement there.

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#2009294 - 08/24/16 02:46 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
kylecof11 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Offense.

Offense had to throw out 2 true freshmen at OT in the middle of last year and let them learn on the fly. Those players are now experienced sophomores. Gonzalez will make a difference, more playmaking ability than anyone on last year's team. Cozart is healthy again, and Willis learned just like the OT did, just on the fly..

Beaty having control of offense is also another factor. When he took over Rice in his OC year, they improved in every category. I don't think that will change this year.

The only real unknowns on defense are the CB position. I figure Mayberry will play, and that Lee might, but most likely looking at a RS year. You know exactly what you will get with Fish and Miller at the safety spot, guys that can tackle and make plays on the ball whether that be INT's or forcing fumbles.. Dineen and Roberts at LB will stick their nose in there and play physical and Armstrong and Wise are the key pieces to the DL. Guys who can play fundamentally sound and get in the backfield and make plays.
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It's always a GREAT day to be a JAYHAWK

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#2009297 - 08/24/16 04:31 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Another year of massive turnover in starters for both lines. Hard to tell who improves the most. Posters say bad offense causes bad defense. I don't believe that theory any more than Ted Cruz dad killed Kennedy.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2009303 - 08/24/16 06:37 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
HawksFB Offline
Junior Jayhawk

Registered: 02/04/09
Defense.
- Continuity of the Coordinator
- More experience/size on the line
- Continuity and depth at LB
- Natural Safety playing Safety (not corner)
- Some improvement on Offense will translate to rest, field position, and momentum for the Defense

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#2009304 - 08/24/16 08:29 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: HawksFB]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: HawksFB
Defense.
- Continuity of the Coordinator
- More experience/size on the line
- Continuity and depth at LB
- Natural Safety playing Safety (not corner)
- Some improvement on Offense will translate to rest, field position, and momentum for the Defense


Agreed....the defense.........Although....instead of getting beat 65-7 maybe we can make it 45-14...which would be a huge improvement. Just saying....we had a huge hill to climb when Beaty took the reins and even though we will probably be improved at almost every position we still are not likely to win more than one or two games and will be favored in only one game.


Edited by track (08/24/16 08:31 PM)

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#2009306 - 08/24/16 08:40 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Totally disagree on a 10% improvement plan. This is not linear math. 10 % each year is not happening. Lol

Beaty does not get a pass on this year BTW.


Edited by KUCO_VOC (08/24/16 08:42 PM)
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2009307 - 08/24/16 08:45 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Beaty will either surprise or disappoint this year. No 10 % bs
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2009308 - 08/24/16 09:03 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
Who knows? Nobody on this board. Nobody here has seen the practices or any games. The only thing we can do is hope and believe the coaches. After around 4 games we will all be able to give our opinions based on what we have seen. This board is for opinions. Just mine, like it or not.
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Tomorrow may be too late--Live Today!

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#2009310 - 08/24/16 09:39 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: bigdogjac]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Originally Posted By: bigdogjac
Who knows? Nobody on this board. Nobody here has seen the practices or any games. The only thing we can do is hope and believe the coaches. After around 4 games we will all be able to give our opinions based on what we have seen. This board is for opinions. Just mine, like it or not.

some people on this board have no faith in what the coaches are saying or doing.... Just as many of us had no faith in derp or big talker Weis. Actions speak louder than words. Should make for an interesting year for KU football. I enjoy reading most of the opinions....except tmcats and that idiot west. I don't even mind KUCO when he agrees with me 100%. lol


Edited by track (08/24/16 10:02 PM)

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#2009311 - 08/25/16 06:29 AM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
Kman_blue Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/31/08
Loc: Kansas
My guess right now is the O will be more improved, mostly because I feel it has the longer way to go in terms of improvement. As was stated before, we gained some valuable in the line of fire type experience, even if it was painful at the time. That should help out those guys improve as Sophomores. I also think coach Beaty's new role with the O will help them out some too.

I do think both sides of the ball will show improvement though this year, but the D actually played respectably for much of last year despite the horrible looking numbers on paper. Virtually nobody's D in the Big 12 looks too good on paper because of the offenses we all play against, but that's not really a good way to grade out D's in this conference IMHO. We've got some quality pieces on the D and some decent depth that we haven't seen in several years which should help them out as well.

I do agree with KUCO_VOC in that improvement usually isn't a linear thing. It happens in surges. It's usually an up and down kind of thing with great improvements happening 1 year and little apparent improvement happening the next, then a big improvement shown the next, etc. That's usually how it happens when teams are improving over the longer term (longer than a 1 or 2 year period).

Only under a very select few, and I mean very few coaches (like maybe the top 10%-20% of hall of fame coaches) does improvement happen in relatively big constant gains from year to year.
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"If I went West, I think I would go to Kansas." -Abraham Lincoln

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#2009316 - 08/25/16 09:41 AM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: KUCO_VOC]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Another year of massive turnover in starters for both lines. Hard to tell who improves the most. Posters say bad offense causes bad defense. I don't believe that theory any more than Ted Cruz dad killed Kennedy.
You're the only one that says bad offenses cause bad defenses.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2009326 - 08/25/16 11:13 AM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: 58hawk]
tmcats Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/08/02
Loc: reservation lake, mn
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Another year of massive turnover in starters for both lines. Hard to tell who improves the most. Posters say bad offense causes bad defense. I don't believe that theory any more than Ted Cruz dad killed Kennedy.
You're the only one that says bad offenses cause bad defenses.


you might want to google that conclusion because logic suggests otherwise.
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Stop waving our wheat!

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#2009328 - 08/25/16 11:48 AM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: tmcats]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: tmcats
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Another year of massive turnover in starters for both lines. Hard to tell who improves the most. Posters say bad offense causes bad defense. I don't believe that theory any more than Ted Cruz dad killed Kennedy.
You're the only one that says bad offenses cause bad defenses.


you might want to google that conclusion because logic suggests otherwise.
Well I hadn't heard anyone else say it on here but I could be wrong.
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2009346 - 08/25/16 02:40 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
bigdogjac Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/11/10
Loc: Oklahoma
If your O goes 3 and out almost every time, your D will probably get worn out and give up a of yards and points. Of course that could also depend upon how much depth you have on D. You have a great D, but they can get worn out and look bad. I guess you have heard it from someone else.
_________________________
Tomorrow may be too late--Live Today!

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#2009352 - 08/25/16 05:44 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
The idea of bad offense drives bad defense is a good excuse for keeping Bowen around. That's something that seems like a cover for poor recruiting by the DC Bowen.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2009353 - 08/25/16 06:20 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: KUCO_VOC]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
The idea of bad offense drives bad defense is a good excuse for keeping Bowen around. That's something that seems like a cover for poor recruiting by the DC Bowen.
Which is it? Bad defense or poor recruiting?
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2009360 - 08/25/16 09:42 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: 58hawk]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
The idea of bad offense drives bad defense is a good excuse for keeping Bowen around. That's something that seems like a cover for poor recruiting by the DC Bowen.
Which is it? Bad defense or poor recruiting?
Like we have heard we need 4 games to tell. Coaching is suspect.
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2009363 - 08/26/16 09:21 AM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
appyhawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 05/17/04
Loc: Flint Hills
Beaty:
"“This thing will never be about me. And when we move this thing forward offensively, it’s not gonna be because of David Beaty,” he said last week. “It’s gonna be because of Zach Yenser and his offensive line, Rob Likens and what he’s done with our offense — offensive line, running backs — the whole piece that he’s created for us. It’s gonna be about Jason Phillips and what he’s done with our guys on the perimeter (at receiver). It’s gonna be about all those guys, and it’s gonna be about us doing it together as a group. And we will get there, no doubt about it. I like the progression we’re making.”
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"Better to do less well than more poorly." Appy

www.cappersoverlay.com





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#2009364 - 08/26/16 10:14 AM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
jayhawkfan0710 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 08/03/14
Loc: Southeast Kansas
Hopefully both are drastically improved. Or we are looking at a 1 win season.

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#2009365 - 08/26/16 10:35 AM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Jefferson's West
Honestly, with our special teams ranking 127th last year, if Deforest steps in and make a big stride there, that can help immensely.

Feeling like we have to go for it every time we're more than 25 yards away was not promising...plus the shanked punts, blocked punts, large returns, poor returns on offense, etc...special teams helped both sides of the ball look bad.
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2009372 - 08/26/16 02:19 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Jefferson's West
The question is:

If Beaty improves the offense and we win lets say 4-5 games, do we adjust the Beaty contract and start paying him like a real head coach?
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2009373 - 08/26/16 02:26 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: dgless21]
kylecof11 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: dgless21
The question is:

If Beaty improves the offense and we win lets say 4-5 games, do we adjust the Beaty contract and start paying him like a real head coach?


That's a pretty good question. He's got a lot of dang incentives in his deal. If he put together 2 decent years, then you redo the contract and give him a raise. But he gets like $25K for each conference win or something like that. I think he can earn a max of $1.2M or somewhere around that point.
_________________________
It's always a GREAT day to be a JAYHAWK

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#2009376 - 08/26/16 04:20 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
KUCO_VOC Offline
KU1980

Registered: 05/22/08
Loc: Denver, CO
From what I understand, he is overpaid (0-12) and has a security blanket that he has named Zinger!

I'm here all week. Try the veal.


Edited by KUCO_VOC (08/26/16 04:22 PM)
_________________________
Kansas football will rise again (Coach Don Fambrough style)

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#2014345 - 02/04/17 08:26 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
pizzanbeer Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 07/03/09
Good to see offense and defense both improve. Defense improved more than offense comparing 2016 to 2015. Defense made a big improvement in passing yards allowed per game.

Stats Ranking for KU
Offense yards per game
2016 = #106 / 360 ypg
2015 = #115 / 332 ypg
Off points per game
2016 = #120 / 20.3 ppg
2015 = #123 / 15.4 ppg
Off passing yards per game
2016 = #59 / 240 pypg
2015 = #69 / 218 pypg
Off rushing yards per game
2016 = #116 / 119 rypg
2015 = #121 / 112 rypg

Defense yards allowed per game
2016 = #107 / 456 ypg
2015 = #128 / 561 ypg
Def points allowed per game
2016 = # 113 / 37 ppg
2015 = #128 / 46 ppg
Def passing yards allowed per game
2016 = #55 / 219 pypg
2015 = #125 / 293 pypg
Def rushing yards allowed per game
2016 = #114 / 236 rypg
2015 = #125 / 267 rypg


Edited by pizzanbeer (02/04/17 11:12 PM)

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#2014409 - 02/05/17 10:44 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
vmlb Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 11/25/06
Interesting bump. Thanks. Can we ask the same question for the 2017 season? How did the special teams stats compare from 15 - 16?

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#2014417 - 02/06/17 07:42 AM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Jefferson's West
I think the easy opinion is that offense will be better because Meacham, returning OL and WRs, and no more Cozart. We were bad running the ball last year, but I don't think we will take too much of a step backward there despite losing Kinner.

Defense is a toss-up because of the number of players graduating. The JUCOs or underclassmen will need to ball-out in the secondary to replace Brandon Stewart and Fish. We'll need some growth like we saw with Wise and Armstrong in the secondary and linebackers to be a bowl team.

Liam Jones should be an upgrade on FGs. Charlot should be an upgrade on Quiv/Fish for punt returns.
_________________________


Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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#2014456 - 02/06/17 05:14 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: pizzanbeer]
58hawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 12/16/09
Loc: KCMO
Speaking of Cozart, with better talent and depth at the QB position is this the year the coaching staff seriously thinks about moving him?
_________________________
KU Coach Naismith invented the game so you get to play it.

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#2014463 - 02/06/17 07:29 PM Re: Most Improved - Offense or Defense? [Re: 58hawk]
dgless21 Offline
Local Deity

Registered: 03/27/05
Loc: Jefferson's West
Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Speaking of Cozart, with better talent and depth at the QB position is this the year the coaching staff seriously thinks about moving him?


Beaty somewhat danced around this question at the season ticket holder event.

He basically suggested that "the third stringer" wouldn't be getting many reps this year with Bender and Stanley taking the majority of reps.

He also said that KU would do whatever they needed to help out Cozart. Sounded like Cozart may graduate and/or transfer. It never really sounded like he was going to be playing another position at KU.
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Hail to thee our Alma Mater, hail to old KU!

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