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#1980147 - 12/09/14 11:10 AM Torture..........
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
A Senate report says the CIA tortured al-qaida members over and above the call of duty. Is it possible to over torture those knuckleheads? Does anyone care that we over-tortured those knuckleheads?

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#1980177 - 12/09/14 01:54 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
Maximus Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Lets asked them on Christmas Day and see what they feel then. People's morality and humanity always at the highest level of truth then before deciding.

Kristen Stewart's movie Camp X-Ray is pretty good about tackling the subject matter in which one prisoner history is unknown and debatable if he is a bad guy or a good guy capture by bad people who mistreat him.

_________________________
Your enemies will know your quality where ever you meet them.

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#1980213 - 12/09/14 08:46 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
Maher Arar likes this. You know what they say, you can't make hummus without mashing a few chickpeas.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980230 - 12/10/14 12:14 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Relax. It was a partisan hatchet job written by the Senate dems. The dems who were kicked out of the Senate wanted to remind you that everything is still GWB's fault.

You can find a rebuttal from the CIA directors at wsj.com. You might be surprised to learn that none of them was interviewed by the committee.
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1980232 - 12/10/14 12:16 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Originally Posted By: MICHHAWK
A Senate Democrat report says the CIA tortured al-qaida members over and above the call of duty. Is it possible to over torture those knuckleheads? Does anyone care that we over-tortured those knuckleheads?
FYP.


Edited by Astronaut (12/10/14 12:17 PM)

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#1980242 - 12/10/14 06:05 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
Yes, yes, ignore the partisan hacks it will just distract you from the latest Benghazi investigation that is about to start.

But if you want to read a little more about enhanced interrogation and what bulshit it is try this.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980256 - 12/10/14 10:33 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980275 - 12/11/14 09:25 AM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
My point is, is it possible to over torture the knuckleheads. And, does anyone care if we do over torture the knuckleheads.

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#1980277 - 12/11/14 09:29 AM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
Maximus Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility could be used to explain knuckleheads not affected by said torture.

Question then is, why torture at all?
_________________________
Your enemies will know your quality where ever you meet them.

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#1980285 - 12/11/14 11:21 AM Re: Torture.......... [Re: Maximus]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Originally Posted By: Maximus
Law Of Diminishing Marginal Utility could be used to explain knuckleheads not affected by said torture.

Question then is, why torture at all?
Ask Nancy Pelosi. She was fully briefed on the enhanced interrogation at the time, as were three other Dems.
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1980286 - 12/11/14 11:24 AM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
McCain's view that "torture" was bad really isn't the subject of the Dems's Senate Committee report.

The techniques were authorized, the Gang of Eight was fully advised at all times and EIT rendered valuable intelligence that not only prevented attacks but helped in the capture of bin Laden and others.
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1980297 - 12/11/14 12:47 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: Astronaut]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
That trick never gets old, when Dick Cheney pulls the string hanging outta yourass and his [censored] pours out of your mouth it always makes me laugh! If you believe that please produce the documents whereby it is substantiated.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980300 - 12/11/14 01:00 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: Astronaut]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
And while you are it can you tell us whether or not any intel gotten via "enhanced methods" could have been retrieved without torture? How long after the interrogation was Bin Laden found? Is this one of those ticking time bomb scenarios we see on those 30 min TV shows? "Do whatever it takes, we don't have a 45 second commercial interruption to lose!" Those are soooo exciting! If only wars didn't plod along over months and years. If they could be wrapped up neat and tidy in 30 minute increments like an episode of "Rat Patrol" that would be cool wouldn't it? I hear that Dick Cheney sleeps in Hogan's Heroes jammies.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980301 - 12/11/14 01:18 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
My point is, is it possible to over torture the knuckleheads. And, does anyone care if we do over torture the knuckleheads.

Yes, I care. Inhumane treatment of another human serves no legitimate military purpose and it distracts and takes away resources from legitimate purposes. I believe causing physical pain and suffering in another human will probably make you sick both physically and mentally. I think the only people who could actually cause pain and suffering of another person for an extended time would have to be a sociopath otherwise you couldn’t do it. So one of my fears is that when we created the enhanced interrogation prisons we created a playground for some pretty sick sadistic individuals. And we probably messed up some well intentioned soldiers who weren’t sociopaths for life by having them participate. If you want to kill the knuckleheads to make sure they do no more harm then do it. If your end goal is to get closure and retribution for loved ones of 9/11 victims, then let them pull the trigger if they want to or watch someone else pull the trigger. But that is not the business of our military.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980302 - 12/11/14 01:18 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Are your for or against torturing the knuckleheads? Give me a one word answer if you can.

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#1980303 - 12/11/14 01:34 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
I am against it, as a government policy there is no "greater good" served.

And you, where stand you?
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980305 - 12/11/14 01:50 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
I have no problem at all with the torturing of these type's of knuckleheads.

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#1980311 - 12/11/14 02:44 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
And may I ask what purpose it serves in your opinion?

Would you be willing to torture someone yourself? Inflict mental and physical pain and stress on them for days and weeks until they were mentally broken and look them in the eyes every day while doing it? Next time the neighbor's dog takes a crap in your yard and really pisses you off, trap it and put it in a small cage. So small it can't lay down or turn around and put it in your garage and give it a go. It's not like it's a real person, it's just a dog, less than a knucklehead if you think about it. Play loud music all day and night long so it can't sleep for days, put a hose up it's nose and one up it's ass and pour water in them until it chokes and starts to vomit and has seizures. You only have to do stuff that leaves no visible marks and is non-lethal, just non-stop mental hazing for days until the thing just glazes over and stops moving or whimpering. See how long you can do it. See if you can walk back into your house and look your family in the eye afterwards. I don't think you should ask anyone to do something you aren't willing to do yourself, but maybe you can do it.

What about the knuckleheads who were later released because they were found to be mistakenly thought to be terrorists? A few innocent knuckleheads got roughed up by mistake you know.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980312 - 12/11/14 02:50 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
Not talking about teenagers that stick up the local convenience store. Does not phase me.

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#1980314 - 12/11/14 02:55 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: Astronaut]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
Ask Nancy Pelosi. She was fully briefed on the enhanced interrogation at the time, as were three other Dems.

So is this just a tit for tat partisanship thing with you? If we can agree that there may have been war crimes committed and if we put everyone complicit and in the know on this on trial would you be good with it? Maybe Obama could share a cell with Cheney. Talk about hell!

You represented US Soldiers in Germany once upon a time. If one of your US soldier clients had been treated in the same manner as some of the detainees and you were in charge of prosecuting the perpetrators, what charges would you bring against them?
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980315 - 12/11/14 02:57 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Originally Posted By: parkhawk3319
That trick never gets old, when Dick Cheney pulls the string hanging outta yourass and his [censored] pours out of your mouth it always makes me laugh! If you believe that please produce the documents whereby it is substantiated.
My! You do get testy when your guy is proven a liar and you're shown to know not of what you speak! Are you Chkn, highjacking his Park's account?

Let's see- Louis Freeh, former FBI director, and former CIA directors George Tenet, Porter Goss (still unindicted) and Mike Hayden (retired Air Force general)- all say EIT resulted in intelligence that 1) aided in the killing of bin Laden, 2) capture of Ramzi Bin al-Shibh, 3) the capture of Hambali and 4) the prevention of a second wave attack on the West Coast.

Here ya go!

http://www.wsj.com/articles/cia-interrog...ons+saved+lives

http://www.wsj.com/articles/louis-j-free...RDS=louis+freeh

BTW, Obama just got through buttfvcking the country once again. If you hurry, you can get the first felching!

As always laugh!
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1980316 - 12/11/14 03:03 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Originally Posted By: parkhawk3319
Next time the neighbor's dog takes a crap in your yard and really pisses you off, trap it and put it in a small cage.
Reduction ad absurdum.

GICH.
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1980317 - 12/11/14 03:04 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
Not talking about teenagers that stick up the local convenience store.

Me neither, did I miss something?

Does not phase me.

If you could do that to another living thing; man, dog or jellyfish you are a rare breed. If we continue to use enhanced interrogation I think we pay you and Hannibal Lector a six figure salary to take care of this dirty business. I don't think kids who volunteered to serve and protect their country should be asked to do it. Most humans aren't emotionally equipped to switch that stuff off and on light a lightbulb. It would destroy most of them. But if you are that one in a million superman I say we hire you right now and pay you commensurately.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980319 - 12/11/14 03:10 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: Astronaut]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
Here ya go!

That's funny, could they be more vague and less substantive in their retort? They had months to work on it.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980327 - 12/11/14 05:17 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: Astronaut]
jock Offline
Junior Jayhawk

Registered: 12/11/11
Loc: At home
Looks like Astronaut is starting his weekend a little early! Did yer mom give you your allowance a couple of days in advance?

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#1980351 - 12/12/14 10:50 AM Re: Torture.......... [Re: jock]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Originally Posted By: jock
Looks like Astronaut is starting his weekend a little early! Did yer mom give you your allowance a couple of days in advance?
You're precious. You really are.


Edited by Astronaut (12/12/14 10:56 AM)
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1980352 - 12/12/14 10:52 AM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Originally Posted By: parkhawk3319
I am against it, as a government policy there is no "greater good" served.

And you, where stand you?
Thanks for the clarification.

In other words, you're willing to accept the Senate Dems fictive report because it fits your narrative.
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1980354 - 12/12/14 11:00 AM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Originally Posted By: parkhawk3319
Here ya go!

That's funny, could they be more vague and less substantive in their retort? They had months to work on it.
You don't seriously believe that the Senate report was objective do you? You don't seriously believe that the Republicans had any part in writing it, do you?
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1980371 - 12/12/14 01:41 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: Astronaut]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
You don't think I really care who wrote it do you? This isn't some new revelation, we have known most of this for years, haven't you been paying attention? It was done and a lot of people on both sides knew about it. They should all ( read between the lines here, both party members) be investigated by someone independent to see if there were crimes committed and who was complicite in any crimes.

Now can you answer my question that you avoided earlier. If you were prosecuting a foreign national who had treated a US soldier/prisoner in this way what would you charge them with?
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980381 - 12/12/14 04:36 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
DCHawk1 Offline
Proudly Derivative.

Registered: 01/29/07
Loc: District of Columbia
(pssst. I think you're winning.)
_________________________
Doodie is not collective; it is personal

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#1980397 - 12/12/14 11:12 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: DCHawk1]
parkhawk3319 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/24/04
Loc: Bohemia
Thanks.

I got a call from Tom he wanted to know what he should get you for Christmas. I told him you would love a Cornhusker horse blanket and a new bitless bridle. That old bridle is starting to give you an overbite. I know Creamchesse loves her fun but she should take it a little easier on you.
_________________________
Peace, bread, work, and freedom is the best we can achieve
And wearing badges is not enough, in days like these

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#1980421 - 12/13/14 06:18 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
DCHawk1 Offline
Proudly Derivative.

Registered: 01/29/07
Loc: District of Columbia
Tell Pop-Pop (it's what he makes me call him) that I already got my Christmas present: all of Bo's old Husker turtlenecks.

They look AWESOME on me!
_________________________
Doodie is not collective; it is personal

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#1980452 - 12/14/14 10:23 AM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Originally Posted By: parkhawk3319
You don't think I really care who wrote it do you?
No.

You think it says what you want it to say, even though it doesn't.
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#2015206 - 02/22/17 12:55 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: MICHHAWK]
Maximus Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
I am not for it. Information can be obtained from these "knuckleheads" and is not worth losing you soul.

Waterboarding, confinement, sleep deprivation, Rectal feeding and rehydration, Confinement in a box, The use of cold water, Beatings and threats, Stress positions, Sleep deprivation, Forced nudity and restricted diets

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-methods-waterboarding-sleep-deprivation

_________________________
Your enemies will know your quality where ever you meet them.

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#2015212 - 02/22/17 03:05 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
jahawker2004 Offline
Freethinker

Registered: 12/30/03
Loc: Wherever Freethinkers Gather


Quote:
You represented US Soldiers in Germany once upon a time. If one of your US soldier clients had been treated in the same manner as some of the detainees and you were in charge of prosecuting the perpetrators, what charges would you bring against them?


Ever get an answer?
_________________________
"Those Places (UNC, UCLA) Are Great, But There's No Place Like Kansas"
---Larry Brown to Bill Self.

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#2015213 - 02/22/17 03:28 PM Re: Torture.......... [Re: parkhawk3319]
jahawker2004 Offline
Freethinker

Registered: 12/30/03
Loc: Wherever Freethinkers Gather
Quote:
Now can you answer my question that you avoided earlier. If you were prosecuting a foreign national who had treated a US soldier/prisoner in this way what would you charge them with?


Still waitin on that answer?

When they do it to us, according to international law(?) it's classified as torture.

But when we do it to them, the neo-cons refer to it as only an "enhanced interrogation".

A semantic charade.

Ask John McCain. He says he was "tortured". I'll take his word for it.

(Nice to have a real debate around this ghost town again. Thanks to all).
_________________________
"Those Places (UNC, UCLA) Are Great, But There's No Place Like Kansas"
---Larry Brown to Bill Self.

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