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#1943441 - 08/09/13 01:30 PM Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it *
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1943449 - 08/09/13 02:07 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jhawks99 Offline
Defense

Registered: 12/03/05
Loc: Rebounds
I saw this on the news this morning. Tragic for sure. The kid should not have been vandalizing the building, nor should he have run from the cops, nor should he have charged the cops once cornered. Lots of ways this could have been avoided.

This from someone who thinks Zimmerman should have been found guilty.
_________________________
Defense. Rebounds.

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#1943450 - 08/09/13 02:09 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
An acquaintance of mine was a Detroit city cop for 30 years. Hard job. Detroit. Miami Beach. It ain't Mayberry.

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#1943456 - 08/09/13 02:24 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
AdmiralObvious Offline
Non-Toady

Registered: 06/25/12
"Art is nothing to be killed for . . ."

Sheesh. Vandalism, resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer. Great kid, I'm sure.
_________________________
Rules apply to everyone, just not to everyone in equal measure or consistency.

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#1943457 - 08/09/13 02:26 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Dick_Perry Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/25/13
Loc: K Street
Shirley being Shirley
_________________________


STRIPPERS AND BLOW

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#1943493 - 08/09/13 03:43 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
digitalkookie Offline
Big Dipper

Registered: 03/06/08
Loc: ATX
if graffiti changed anything - it would be illegal

YT,

banksy
_________________________
come on united

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#1943498 - 08/09/13 03:51 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
AFH1 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 01/15/13
Anyone else catch the ______ on the cover of Ebony wearing their hoodies and saying they were Trayvon?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/06/ebony-trayvon-covers-sons-photos_n_3715134.html

No [censored], you're not Trayvon. You are all wealthy sons and daughters of [censored] who are well known and most if not all of you are at times protected by "personal" security. You are not someone who faught George Zimmerman and POSSIBLY beat him up to the point where he POSSIBLY felt he had to kill or be killed.
Being black and putting on a hoodie does not make you Trayvon Martin any more than my putting on a red sweater makes me become Bobby Knight.

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#1943506 - 08/09/13 03:57 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Dick_Perry]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
Originally Posted By: Dick_Perry
Shirley being Shirley


I don't get many complaints...
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1943507 - 08/09/13 03:58 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: AdmiralObvious]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
"Art is nothing to be killed for . . ."

Sheesh. Vandalism, resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer. Great kid, I'm sure.


^^^^^

No doubt, he had it comin'.

No priors, unarmed...
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1943525 - 08/09/13 04:29 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jhawks99 Offline
Defense

Registered: 12/03/05
Loc: Rebounds
This unfortunate young man could have avoided this outcome at multiple times. The cops were not trying to kill the guy, only trying to catch a suspected criminal.

Crap, I'm on the same side as the admiral. It's time to re-evaluate my life.
_________________________
Defense. Rebounds.

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#1943542 - 08/09/13 05:28 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: jhawks99]
imzcount Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 11/22/03
Loc: az
Trayvon was suspended from school for fighting and had a rap sheet
_________________________

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#1943569 - 08/09/13 06:44 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
JAHWobbly Offline
Posts: 10,324

Registered: 05/20/03
Loc: PDX
Sounds like he deserved the death penalty without jury trial.

Ok, that's what he got. Nevermind.
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#1943576 - 08/09/13 07:12 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
seahawk Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 02/03/05
Martin had been arrested or was an adjudicated delinquent? I don't recall reading that.

So, how could he have had a rap sheet?
_________________________
Literally every other thing in the world is responsible for gun violence except guns.

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#1943580 - 08/09/13 07:24 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jayhwk01 Offline
Timmy's Nemesis

Registered: 01/22/05
Loc: Mt. Oread's Shadow
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
"Art is nothing to be killed for . . ."

Sheesh. Vandalism, resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer. Great kid, I'm sure.


^^^^^

No doubt, he had it comin'.

No priors, unarmed...


I don't know the details of the case so I am not going to make a judgment yet but on the surface it appears to me the police clearly were trying to use the most non lethal force as possible to apprehend a criminal. That is why they used a Tazer and not night sticks or firearms.

but no doubt every tragic death involving a cop and a teen is the result of a racist killer with a badge. Ain't this broad brush thing fun!?!



Edited by jayhwk01 (08/09/13 07:24 PM)
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kusports.net Peace Out and Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

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#1943585 - 08/09/13 07:37 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
AdmiralObvious Offline
Non-Toady

Registered: 06/25/12
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
"Art is nothing to be killed for . . ."

Sheesh. Vandalism, resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer. Great kid, I'm sure.


^^^^^

No doubt, he had it comin'.

No priors, unarmed...


Are you really hysterical enough to believe that they killed him on purpose? When you resist arrest, force is permissible. It was a one in a million outcome.
_________________________
Rules apply to everyone, just not to everyone in equal measure or consistency.

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#1943596 - 08/09/13 08:20 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: AdmiralObvious]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
"Art is nothing to be killed for . . ."

Sheesh. Vandalism, resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer. Great kid, I'm sure.


^^^^^

No doubt, he had it comin'.

No priors, unarmed...


Are you really hysterical enough to believe that they killed him on purpose? When you resist arrest, force is permissible. It was a one in a million outcome.


^^^^^^

Tagging a boarded-up storefront sounds like grounds for the death penalty to me.

BTW, ~ 500 people have died after being Tased since 2001.
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1943602 - 08/09/13 08:41 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
JAHWobbly Offline
Posts: 10,324

Registered: 05/20/03
Loc: PDX
Died from non-lethal force. Got it.
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This post is sponsored by Pepsi.

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#1943605 - 08/09/13 08:50 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
seahawk Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 02/03/05
I've been in Miami--a scary place. You're telling me the biggest crime that Miami police have to spend their time on is some kid tagging an abandoned building?

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#1943618 - 08/09/13 09:20 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
AdmiralObvious Offline
Non-Toady

Registered: 06/25/12
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
"Art is nothing to be killed for . . ."

Sheesh. Vandalism, resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer. Great kid, I'm sure.


^^^^^

No doubt, he had it comin'.

No priors, unarmed...


Are you really hysterical enough to believe that they killed him on purpose? When you resist arrest, force is permissible. It was a one in a million outcome.


^^^^^^

Tagging a boarded-up storefront sounds like grounds for the death penalty to me.

BTW, ~ 500 people have died after being Tased since 2001.


Sociology 101

Again, to people who are thinking with their minds and not their hormones, accidental death in the line of duty and the "death penalty" are not one and the same. But don't let that take the edge off of your shrill righteous indignation.
_________________________
Rules apply to everyone, just not to everyone in equal measure or consistency.

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#1943624 - 08/09/13 09:36 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: AdmiralObvious]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
I think any reasonable person would agree that he had it coming.
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1943626 - 08/09/13 09:42 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
AdmiralObvious Offline
Non-Toady

Registered: 06/25/12
You're right. They should have asked him nicely not to vandalize other peoples' property. When he refused, they should have affirmed his need for creative self-expression and nurtured his inner child. What the hell are they teaching at police academies these days, anyway?!?
_________________________
Rules apply to everyone, just not to everyone in equal measure or consistency.

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#1943629 - 08/09/13 09:45 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
A 10 minute footrace.

Our tax dollars at work.
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1943631 - 08/09/13 09:47 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
AdmiralObvious Offline
Non-Toady

Registered: 06/25/12
Guess they could've shot out his kneecap when he started to run. Would've saved time, and he'd be crippled instead of dead.
_________________________
Rules apply to everyone, just not to everyone in equal measure or consistency.

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#1943633 - 08/09/13 09:49 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: AdmiralObvious]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
Guess they could've shot out his kneecap when he started to run. Would've saved time, and he'd be crippled instead of dead.


Yeah, 'cause after all, he did tag a boarded-up storefront!
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1943640 - 08/09/13 09:53 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
AdmiralObvious Offline
Non-Toady

Registered: 06/25/12
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
Guess they could've shot out his kneecap when he started to run. Would've saved time, and he'd be crippled instead of dead.


Yeah, 'cause after all, he did tag a boarded-up storefront!


I see. So, spending our tax dollars cleaning up the boarded up storefront would be money better spent?
_________________________
Rules apply to everyone, just not to everyone in equal measure or consistency.

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#1943652 - 08/09/13 10:52 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
DCHawk1 Offline
Proudly Derivative.

Registered: 01/29/07
Loc: District of Columbia


Geezer weigh in on this yet?

Lemme guess: shouldn't killed the kid. Cuz...well...after all he wasn't in his own garage!
_________________________
Doodie is not collective; it is personal

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#1943656 - 08/09/13 11:06 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jayhwk01 Offline
Timmy's Nemesis

Registered: 01/22/05
Loc: Mt. Oread's Shadow
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
"Art is nothing to be killed for . . ."

Sheesh. Vandalism, resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer. Great kid, I'm sure.


^^^^^

No doubt, he had it comin'.

No priors, unarmed...





Are you really hysterical enough to believe that they killed him on purpose? When you resist arrest, force is permissible. It was a one in a million outcome.


^^^^^^

Tagging a boarded-up storefront sounds like grounds for the death penalty to me.

BTW, ~ 500 people have died after being Tased since 2001.



Death Penalty? Hyperbole much? And it appears to me he was not tazed for Vandalism, which of course is a crime, boarded up building or not, but for evading and then resisting an officer. I am pretty sure resisting an officer will get you AT LEAST tazed pretty much all the time no matter what you were doing.

So I have to wonder Shirley. Are we asking Cops to patrol their beat and when witnessing a crime intuitively know to ignore the ones that might turn into worse crimes and escalate to the use of force? If you have the kind of crystal ball I am sure a lot of cops would like to know where to get one.


Edited by jayhwk01 (08/09/13 11:20 PM)
_________________________
kusports.net Peace Out and Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

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#1943661 - 08/09/13 11:20 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jayhwk01 Offline
Timmy's Nemesis

Registered: 01/22/05
Loc: Mt. Oread's Shadow
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
Guess they could've shot out his kneecap when he started to run. Would've saved time, and he'd be crippled instead of dead.


Yeah, 'cause after all, he did tag a boarded-up storefront!


Vandalism, evading, and resisting is only a crime in nice neighborhoods?


Edited by jayhwk01 (08/09/13 11:27 PM)
_________________________
kusports.net Peace Out and Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

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#1943683 - 08/10/13 01:10 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: jayhwk01]
imzcount Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 11/22/03
Loc: az
Originally Posted By: jayhwk01
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
Originally Posted By: Shirley
Originally Posted By: AdmiralObvious
"Art is nothing to be killed for . . ."

Sheesh. Vandalism, resisting arrest, assaulting a police officer. Great kid, I'm sure.


^^^^^

No doubt, he had it comin'.

No priors, unarmed...





Are you really hysterical enough to believe that they killed him on purpose? When you resist arrest, force is permissible. It was a one in a million outcome.


^^^^^^

Tagging a boarded-up storefront sounds like grounds for the death penalty to me.

BTW, ~ 500 people have died after being Tased since 2001.



Death Penalty? Hyperbole much? And it appears to me he was not tazed for Vandalism, which of course is a crime, boarded up building or not, but for evading and then resisting an officer. I am pretty sure resisting an officer will get you AT LEAST tazed pretty much all the time no matter what you were doing.

So I have to wonder Shirley. Are we asking Cops to patrol their beat and when witnessing a crime intuitively know to ignore the ones that might turn into worse crimes and escalate to the use of force? If you have the kind of crystal ball I am sure a lot of cops would like to know where to get one.


Excellent reply!
_________________________

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#1943717 - 08/10/13 09:25 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
TraditionKU Offline
Darwin

Registered: 05/02/11
Loc: Wasatch Range
Originally Posted By: '01
And it appears to me he was not tazed for Vandalism, which of course is a crime, boarded up building or not, but for evading and then resisting an officer. I am pretty sure resisting an officer will get you AT LEAST tazed pretty much all the time no matter what you were doing.


this was my thinking as well.

i ran (on foot) from the cops once when i was underage, carrying a large alcohol dispensing receptacle down the ally between tennessee and kentucky......no way were they catching me, but if they would have, there is no way i would have resisted and fought back
_________________________
we come out of the wheat ballin' -LouisesWest '12

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#1943750 - 08/10/13 12:05 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
seahawk Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 02/03/05
Come on, guys.

A cop with a history of using excessive force is upset that a kid committing a 2nd degree misdemeanor--for which he wouldn't even be prosecuted--can outrun him and in all likelihood tasers the kid to death?

There are plenty of decent cops who've no doubt been laid off who could take this guy's place. And should.

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#1943752 - 08/10/13 12:16 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
1985hawk Offline
Moderator-Retired

Registered: 04/24/03
Loc: Back here
As long as the policemen in this matter were following protocol, I dont see any wrong doing. Using a taser is not considered to be deadly force.
_________________________
The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Albert Einstein

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#1943762 - 08/10/13 12:52 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
JAHWobbly Offline
Posts: 10,324

Registered: 05/20/03
Loc: PDX
>>Using a taser is not considered to be deadly force.

Unless it kills ya.
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This post is sponsored by Pepsi.

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#1943764 - 08/10/13 01:18 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
seahawk Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 02/03/05
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#1943766 - 08/10/13 01:23 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
1985hawk Offline
Moderator-Retired

Registered: 04/24/03
Loc: Back here
That seems to back up the police officers.

Intent has everything to do with whether there was wrong doing on the part of the officers. Had the intended to harm the teen, they could have chosen to use their gun instead of the usually less lethal taser.

This is an unfortunate incident but there was no intent to kill, only to subdue


Edited by 1985hawk (08/10/13 01:23 PM)
_________________________
The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Albert Einstein

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#1947904 - 09/06/13 01:49 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: 1985hawk]
jayshep Offline
wolfhunter

Registered: 04/07/04
Several things: I haven't posted on here in quite some time, but felt the need to chime in on this one. I'm a police officer in the second largest department in the metro (I work in the 'hood) and a KU grad. Hopefully I can add a little insight from the inside that some of you need to hear.

First of all...comparing this in any way to the Martin incident is irresponsible and ridiculous. Absolutely no factual similarities at all. Thank God that this was Hispanic on Hispanic or idiots like Shirley would be race-baiting. Again. When race played no part. Listening, Shirley?

Stating or implying that this was a "death penalty" without a jury trial is, again, silly. Do you really think the officer wanted to kill the young misdemeanor violator? Seriously. The kid died, and that is a horrible fact. I'm not a huge proponent of the taser, and I think it's used too often in place of trained, rehearsed hand to hand defensive tactics in some departments. With that being said, I've tased several "bad guys" in a couple of different situations. Generally speaking, a taser is "prettier" (looks better on video) than multiple baton strikes (same force level) or multiple empty hand or knee strikes. Less likely to elicit the "Rodney King" reaction from the community regarding excessive force. When effective, it also greatly reduces injuries to officers when involved in a fight with a "bad guy". I've been to the hospital on a handful of occasions after physically fighting suspects that weren't armed. Personally, I don't like to use it but it's a great tool to have when outmatched by the guy you're paid to take to jail.

Police officers and the great majority of departments use the 1+1 theory when it comes to use of force. We escalate our force options one above the force used to resist arrest. In other words, if a bad guy is resisting using empty hands (pulling away, running, punching, kicking, biting), we can use an intermediate weapon (baton, OC spray, taser). If they have a weapon (rock, broken pool cue, knife, gun) we may escalate to deadly force. The "force continuum" also takes into account the "totality of the circumstances", which include subject size and apparent ability and the officer size, gender and apparent ability, among other things. In other words, if a 300lb man high on PCP is resisting with force an attempted arrest by a 120lb female officer, she will be able to escalate to a higher level of force more quickly than I, as a 200lb man and former wrestler, will be able to.

As for the poster that questioned if Miami police have better things to do than arrest a graffiti "artist"...yes, I'm sure they do. So when I see someone slashing your tires (ie damaging property), I'm supposed to turn a blind eye? And when that person runs when I confront them like I'm sworn to do, I shouldn't give chase? And when that person runs at me when cornered, I'm supposed to assume they have benevolent intentions and let them past? Tell my wife that when a guy kills me. "Hey, Ofc Jayshep assumed he was peaceful. Oh well!" In running, HE escalated the force option from empty hand (peaceful arrestee) to intermediate weapon (resisting arrestee). The taser is an intermediate weapon.

Most departments (and I'll admit, I have not read that department's general orders) require ordering EMS for the arrestee immediately after deploying the taser. Both for removal of the darts and for evaluation of the arrestee. The assertion of one of the kid's friends that the cops stood around and high fived after the event strike me as bullshit. My department is pretty macho, and I've never seen something like that happen. I'm not a rookie, I've been around for a few.

Somebody also stated that the offender wouldn't have been prosecuted for a misdemeanor. Is that straight from the mouth of your friend in the city prosecutor's office? Didn't think so.

I may or may not be on here in the next few days to answer any question or comments you all have, but I'll try. Please keep the doughnut jokes to a minimum.
_________________________
Only after "..great victory does 'Rockchalk Jayhawk, KU' float through the midnight air.."--1887

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#1947908 - 09/06/13 07:41 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
mtglite Offline
Dee-cent

Registered: 12/17/09
very well said. I for one respect the hell out of cops and the difficult job they have.
If I would be a cop I would be like Charles Bronson in Death Wish and just shoot everybody.

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#1947959 - 09/06/13 01:17 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: jayshep]
Astronaut Offline
Deep Thinker

Registered: 09/09/11
Loc: Wherever Deep Thinkers gather
Thanks.
_________________________
Check the transcript, Candy.

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#1948314 - 09/09/13 12:27 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: mtglite]
jayshep Offline
wolfhunter

Registered: 04/07/04
I appreciate the respect, mtglite. At times, I can identify with your statement about Charles Bronson. However, I've been in several situations where I should have pulled the trigger and did not, for a variety of reasons. For the most part, we have literally about a second to react to what's happening. Most of those situations I still have bad dreams about. The most recent critical incident I was involved in was documented extensively (although pretty inaccurately) by local media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAuvspj1hTQ
_________________________
Only after "..great victory does 'Rockchalk Jayhawk, KU' float through the midnight air.."--1887

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#1948325 - 09/09/13 08:47 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
minhin Offline
Uh Oh

Registered: 02/20/08
Loc: ...in the warm sun
Good to see you Jayshep. Thanks for the giving us a realistic look at the police side of this.
_________________________
"It isn't how fast a horse runs, it's how a horse runs fast" Appy

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#1948456 - 09/09/13 09:24 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: mtglite]
jahawker2004 Offline
Freethinker

Registered: 12/30/03
Loc: Wherever Freethinkers Gather
Originally Posted By: mtglite
very well said. I for one respect the hell out of cops and the difficult job they have.
If I would be a cop I would be like Charles Bronson in Death Wish and just shoot everybody.


Thank you for not becoming a cop.
_________________________
"Those Places (UNC, UCLA) Are Great, But There's No Place Like Kansas"
---Larry Brown to Bill Self.

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#1948458 - 09/09/13 09:33 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
1985hawk Offline
Moderator-Retired

Registered: 04/24/03
Loc: Back here
My advice in dealing with police is let them be in charge and dont indtimitate them. Put yourself at ease and let them take control. Turn your interior lights on and tell them in advance what you are going to do. They have a very difficult job and they deal with incredibly stupid and violent people so they are on edge

Do your best to put them at ease and you will be treated with respect. Be an [censored] and you wont be treated so nice. They are doing a job nobody likes but they are the wall between right and wrong. Be on the right side of that wall
_________________________
The simplest explanation is usually the right one. Albert Einstein

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#1948509 - 09/10/13 10:01 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Phog1004 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/17/10
Loc: KC
Good explanation Jayshep, and I appreciate what you guys do (even if Shirls and Seahawk don't)
_________________________
"The problem is, every time we think we are good, we remember we are Kansas State." -Will Cokeley

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#1948653 - 09/12/13 08:00 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
She had it coming.

_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1948686 - 09/12/13 01:36 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Phog1004 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/17/10
Loc: KC
lol, Shirly loves Drunk Drivers and hates cops.....awesome
_________________________
"The problem is, every time we think we are good, we remember we are Kansas State." -Will Cokeley

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#1948714 - 09/13/13 01:41 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jayshep Offline
wolfhunter

Registered: 04/07/04
I'm sorry, Shirley. It took you a couple days to find that? I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to prove with this one.

She drove her vehicle into the bedroom of a house while drunk and justified it by saying "Nobody was hurt." Three witnesses confirmed she was the driver.

She apparently failed several SFST's and was arrested. After being arrested, she slipped her cuffs to the front, which is generally frowned upon. She then proceeded to either kick or hit the window of the police car from the inside.

When the officers uncuffed her to put the cuffs back behind her back where they belong, she resisted and was put on the ground. While on the ground, she crapped her pants then kicked two officers. In whatever state that is, it became a felony when she did so (God I wish that was the case here).

What, exactly, is the point you're trying to prove? I'm honestly trying to understand. That it's ok to drive drunk to the point you run into a fricking house, then resist arrest, then batter officers? Please, enlighten me.
_________________________
Only after "..great victory does 'Rockchalk Jayhawk, KU' float through the midnight air.."--1887

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#1948716 - 09/13/13 01:53 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jayshep Offline
wolfhunter

Registered: 04/07/04
Shirley, since you're firing shots at my profession, what do you do for a living? I've been fairly open about what I do and where I do it. Are you willing to do the same? Or are you simply going to hide behind your internet persona?
_________________________
Only after "..great victory does 'Rockchalk Jayhawk, KU' float through the midnight air.."--1887

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#1948733 - 09/13/13 09:55 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Phog1004 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/17/10
Loc: KC
She's a doctor jayshep.....which, one might think would lead her to frown upon drinking and driving, but alas.......
_________________________
"The problem is, every time we think we are good, we remember we are Kansas State." -Will Cokeley

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#1948823 - 09/14/13 02:36 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Phog1004]
jayshep Offline
wolfhunter

Registered: 04/07/04
A doctor, huh? Buncha quacks, I tell ya.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/20/doctors-licenses-medical-boards/2655513/

See, I can do this too, Shirley.


Edited by jayshep (09/14/13 02:37 AM)
_________________________
Only after "..great victory does 'Rockchalk Jayhawk, KU' float through the midnight air.."--1887

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#1948850 - 09/14/13 12:36 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
As a good physician who has never been sued or sanctioned, I support the revocation of the license to practice medicine and prosecution of any doctor who harms a patient like the one in the video you posted.

However, I wonder if you wouldn't mind clarifying something? Since you've defended the actions of the policemen in the case of the drunk driver who resisted and subsequently had her orbital bone fractured, which of the techniques you described above, the:

Originally Posted By: jayshep
...1+1 theory when it comes to use of force...


Or

Originally Posted By: jayshep
The "force continuum" also takes into account the "totality of the circumstances" which include subject size and apparent ability and the officer size, gender and apparent ability, among other things. In other words, if a 300lb man high on PCP is resisting with force an attempted arrest by a 120lb female officer, she will be able to escalate to a higher level of force more quickly than I, as a 200lb man and former wrestler, will be able to.


did the officers employ?

_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1949290 - 09/16/13 03:45 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
badair Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/17/05
Loc: Topeka
The world ain't fair. You can be tased to death or killed by the neighbors dogs. It makes no sense! Take what you can get and move along.

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#1949309 - 09/16/13 07:11 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Geezer Offline
To serve & protect

Registered: 01/08/06
Loc: JayhawkLaw office Lobby
_________________________
"Nice hands, Jess." Bill Self, Oct. 17, 2012


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#1949379 - 09/17/13 11:33 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Phog1004 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/17/10
Loc: KC
I gotta say....Im a little upset that it took geezer over a month, to come running to support Shirley in this thread.
_________________________
"The problem is, every time we think we are good, we remember we are Kansas State." -Will Cokeley

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#1955685 - 11/26/13 01:54 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
This woman was asking for it. The officer couldn't have been more reasonable with her, and then she drives off. While it was excessive for the assisting cop to start unloading his revolver at her mini van, she's the one who chose to put her children at risk.
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1955741 - 11/26/13 11:07 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
DCHawk1 Offline
Proudly Derivative.

Registered: 01/29/07
Loc: District of Columbia
Were any of these people in their own garages?

If so, the cops were justified.
_________________________
Doodie is not collective; it is personal

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#1955770 - 11/27/13 09:57 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
imzcount Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 11/22/03
Loc: az
Originally Posted By: Shirley
She had it coming.



Just saw this for the first time. Cops lay their lives on the line for us every time they pin on their badge. I admire their courage. Law breakers who commit these crimes should expect repercussions as a result of their actions. All this lady had to do was obey the officers and she wouldn't have had a broken face.
_________________________

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#1955782 - 11/27/13 11:30 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: imzcount]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
You got nobody but yourself to blame(most of the time), if you're getting or have gotten a bad time from the law. I have had one bad time with the law. It was all of my own doing.

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#1955814 - 11/27/13 03:43 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
beenhas Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 03/18/12
Cops are nasty human beings. A majority of them are faux-macho men who got their ass beat as kids and decided to get a badge to pay everyone back.

Yes, I'm talking to the cop in this thread: you're a [censored].

Hi DCHawk!

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#1955865 - 11/27/13 09:02 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: beenhas]
DCHawk1 Offline
Proudly Derivative.

Registered: 01/29/07
Loc: District of Columbia
Originally Posted By: beenhas


Hi DCHawk!



Hi, t_j!
_________________________
Doodie is not collective; it is personal

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#1955875 - 11/27/13 11:16 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jahawker2004 Offline
Freethinker

Registered: 12/30/03
Loc: Wherever Freethinkers Gather
Originally Posted By: Shirley
This woman was asking for it. The officer couldn't have been more reasonable with her, and then she drives off. While it was excessive for the assisting cop to start unloading his revolver at her mini van, she's the one who chose to put her children at risk.



+1

What the hell was this woman thinking?
_________________________
"Those Places (UNC, UCLA) Are Great, But There's No Place Like Kansas"
---Larry Brown to Bill Self.

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#1956527 - 12/04/13 10:39 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
seahawk Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 02/03/05
It always amazes me when I hear some of my female friends talk about arguing with the cops who've stopped them for speeding.

However, one wonders why, knowing that traffic stops are very dangerous events for law enforcement, New Mexico law would require one to sign the ticket?
_________________________
Literally every other thing in the world is responsible for gun violence except guns.

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#1956535 - 12/04/13 11:35 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
DCHawk1 Offline
Proudly Derivative.

Registered: 01/29/07
Loc: District of Columbia
Cops are misogynists.
_________________________
Doodie is not collective; it is personal

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#1956682 - 12/05/13 11:17 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: jahawker2004]
seahawk Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 02/03/05
There was a notorious speed trap on one highway in New Mexico where they made you stop and pay up right then. I was driving to a meeting in Clovis, way out east, once and remembered to slow down. When I got to the meeting another guy arrived and said he'd completely forgotten and been speeding when he saw flashing lights behind him. Fortunately a car with Texas plates sped by and the local cop went off after him--they love to ticket Texans in New Mexico.

This lady was unfortunate that she had an out of state license but no Texans passed her up.

When the officer kept talking about the magistrate in Taos, I was wondering if the newest judge was still on the bench. The last one was removed from office by the Supreme Court.
_________________________
Literally every other thing in the world is responsible for gun violence except guns.

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#1957176 - 12/13/13 02:16 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: beenhas]
jayshep Offline
wolfhunter

Registered: 04/07/04
Originally Posted By: beenhas
Cops are nasty human beings. A majority of them are faux-macho men who got their ass beat as kids and decided to get a badge to pay everyone back.

Yes, I'm talking to the cop in this thread: you're a [censored].

Hi DCHawk!


First time back in three months...welcome back to me, I guess. I should know better than to respond to this. Every day on the street I deal with this attitude from the bad guys I put where they belong.

You wanna know why I became a cop? It's because I saw what meth did to my senior class in high school. A friend of mine (who cleaned up after about nine months) lost 45lbs and didn't graduate high school because of his addiction. I saw what it did to him and several others and wanted to do what I could to stop that from happening. I was inspired by the police running toward the disaster of 9/11 when everyone except firefighters were running away. I was a junior in college, walking across the parking lot of Memorial Stadium when I saw the vapor trails turning around to go back to KCI. I come from a long line of people in service professions (teachers, social workers, doctors, dentists, prison guards, farmers, etc) and wanted to not only earn a living, but to do my part to try and better society and contribute to the greater good. Call it cliche if you will, but it's the truth. I enjoy the adrenaline rush of taking a dealer off the street, the thrill of a vehicle pursuit, and the sense of satisfaction when I know I've done something to help someone that will never get recognized or that anyone will ever know about, except that person and me.

The thing is, there are bad cops out there, but for anyone to say that they're the majority is simply not true. I can think of two guys in a department of 500 that are cops because they got picked on. Guess what? They're sub-par cops and everybody knows it. They're also not the cops that are out there putting themselves at extra risk by being proactive and catching the true bad guys, generally speaking.

The attitude toward law enforcement you show above is, quite frankly, a slap in the face to every good cop out there. But we're used to it, especially us "ghetto street cops". And guess what? If you call, we'll still come and do whatever we can to help you.

I'm sorry you think I'm a [censored]. I'm sure your opinion will continue regardless of what I say. But I'm offering to drop you off at 17th and Cleveland or 22nd and Russell or 8th and Lafayette or in Juniper Gardens after dark, give you my gun, badge and vest and see how well you do. See if you go toward the gunfire or away from it. See if you still call me a [censored].
_________________________
Only after "..great victory does 'Rockchalk Jayhawk, KU' float through the midnight air.."--1887

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#1957177 - 12/13/13 02:55 AM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: jayshep]
jahawker2004 Offline
Freethinker

Registered: 12/30/03
Loc: Wherever Freethinkers Gather
One of the best--certainly the most passionate--posts I have ever read on this forum.

Welcome back jayshep.
_________________________
"Those Places (UNC, UCLA) Are Great, But There's No Place Like Kansas"
---Larry Brown to Bill Self.

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#1989873 - 04/18/15 04:29 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: jahawker2004]
Shirley Offline
Pelvic Missionary

Registered: 03/17/05
Contrary to how a number of you would prefer to characterize me, I don't "hate" cops. In fact, it's because of my regard for police that when one did something outrageous and it inevitably became a reflection on all of them, that it motivated me post the things I did when I used to spend time here.

Because the person who administered the benefits for the largest police dept. in the area where I practiced was a patient of mine, anytime a person came to her to sign up for health insurance, if they didn't already have a doctor she would recommend me. Consequently, I took care of an unbelievable number of police officers and their families. Before that, I was pretty neutral in my opinion of police, but after learning what a strong work-ethic they had and what straight shooters (no pun intended) they were, before long I had a huge amount of respect for them and learned what a privilege it was.

I hadn't seen this video before, and it brought tears to my eyes.
_________________________
I come from a long line of people who convinced others to sleep with them.

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#1989875 - 04/18/15 04:54 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
jahawker2004 Offline
Freethinker

Registered: 12/30/03
Loc: Wherever Freethinkers Gather
Long time no see.

Welcome back. Put your feet up and stay awhile.
_________________________
"Those Places (UNC, UCLA) Are Great, But There's No Place Like Kansas"
---Larry Brown to Bill Self.

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#1989885 - 04/18/15 05:39 PM Re: Must've been wearing a hoodie, i.e., asking for it [Re: Shirley]
PHOGUSHER Offline
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Shirls must of tired of the dot net riff raff. She is good people. I think she plays golf.
_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

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