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#1899917 - 04/21/13 01:10 PM James Shields
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Can we get this man some run support? In a no decision he gives up 1 run and in two losses he can up 3 and 1 runs. He deserves so much better. Season ERA at 3.00 and the guy should be 4-0.


No one is second guess having a #1 starter over someone still in the minors.
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#1900123 - 04/22/13 02:12 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Wil Myers will likely be a superstar, meanwhile Big Game James is already 31. I would rather have Wil
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#1900259 - 04/22/13 12:30 PM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Originally Posted By: yoda
Wil Myers will likely be a superstar, meanwhile Big Game James is already 31. I would rather have Wil


The Royals have about a 2-3 year window to win now. Wil Myers would not help.
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#1900263 - 04/22/13 12:36 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
jnewell Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 08/07/08
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Pretty early to be making a statement like that.

Originally Posted By: Maximus
No one is second guess having a #1 starter over someone still in the minors.

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#1900286 - 04/22/13 01:22 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
I will say that, without blessing the trade, it is nice that the Royals have sufficient pitching to provide some assurance that catastrophic losing streaks will not happen.
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#1900333 - 04/22/13 03:56 PM Re: James Shields [Re: jnewell]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: jnewell
Pretty early to be making a statement like that.

Originally Posted By: Maximus
No one is second guess having a #1 starter over someone still in the minors.


Yea, I don't like hindsight but prefer foresight. Of course, with foresight you can be wrong but with hindsight every one is always right.

I have no problem going on record and being wrong either.

I also thought that KU wouldn't win a National Title last year but will in the next couple of years, I thought Rio would transfer at the start of the year, I think that Trey Burke will be the #1 draft pick in the NBA draft, I think that Eric Hosmer should be our 2nd baseman (got a lot of good laughs from that one), I thought KU should fire Turner Gill after the 1st game of the 2nd year but still watched every football minute as they were blown out for 60 point every game, I think Andrew White III will be a 1st round pick by the time his career is over (not looking good now but I still hold this view), I think that Elijah Johnson won't play professional basketball for his career where he won't have to get a regular 9-5 job, and I think deep down B_of_H is a big fan of Roy Williams who is still hurt over his exit. What else could explain his non stop talk about Roi's Boys?


Opinion- Kevin Young was the Jayhawk MVP for being the true glue to the team. I will miss his reverse dunks.

http://youtu.be/K1svxvMMikI


Edited by Maximus (04/22/13 04:21 PM)
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#1900387 - 04/22/13 05:09 PM Re: James Shields [Re: jnewell]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: jnewell
Pretty early to be making a statement like that.

Originally Posted By: Maximus
No one is second guess having a #1 starter over someone still in the minors.



I agree that KC was in desperate need of a top of the rotation, No. 1 type pitcher — however, a lot of experts are projecting Wil Myers to be a superstar
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#1900602 - 04/23/13 09:34 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
I would still undo the trade in a hot second if possible, but there was a time when Hosmer and Moustakas were as hot of commodities as Myers was this last offseason. I think two years of Shields are not worth six of Myers, in a vacuum, but I will concede that it is possible that these two years of Shields might be more important to the franchise.
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#1900613 - 04/23/13 09:50 AM Re: James Shields [Re: JFish26]
kylecof11 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 07/20/09
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: JFish26
I would still undo the trade in a hot second if possible, but there was a time when Hosmer and Moustakas were as hot of commodities as Myers was this last offseason. I think two years of Shields are not worth six of Myers, in a vacuum, but I will concede that it is possible that these two years of Shields might be more important to the franchise.


This is more of a stretch Fish, but what if after these 2 years Starling or Bonifacio are ready for action in RF, knowing Cain and Gordon will man CF and LF respectively. Does that change, albeit slightly, the opinion that trading Myers was a huge mistake?

It'll be interesting if KC does win and be in contention these next couple of years and Shields possibly re-signs for a deal similar that Guthrie has, with maybe higher amount.. Could there be a possible starting rotation of Shields, Zimmer, Duffy, Paulino and Davis?

Granted a lot of "what ifs" but who knows. All I know is KC is starving for some winning baseball, and Shields has been extremely instrumental in that so far.
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#1900631 - 04/23/13 10:11 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
christgs80 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 05/17/04
Everything I read about Bubba Starling is that he's struggling horribly to adjust hitting-wise.

And horribly is putting it nicely.

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#1900637 - 04/23/13 10:22 AM Re: James Shields [Re: kylecof11]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Originally Posted By: kylecof11
Originally Posted By: JFish26
I would still undo the trade in a hot second if possible, but there was a time when Hosmer and Moustakas were as hot of commodities as Myers was this last offseason. I think two years of Shields are not worth six of Myers, in a vacuum, but I will concede that it is possible that these two years of Shields might be more important to the franchise.


This is more of a stretch Fish, but what if after these 2 years Starling or Bonifacio are ready for action in RF, knowing Cain and Gordon will man CF and LF respectively. Does that change, albeit slightly, the opinion that trading Myers was a huge mistake?

It'll be interesting if KC does win and be in contention these next couple of years and Shields possibly re-signs for a deal similar that Guthrie has, with maybe higher amount.. Could there be a possible starting rotation of Shields, Zimmer, Duffy, Paulino and Davis?

Granted a lot of "what ifs" but who knows. All I know is KC is starving for some winning baseball, and Shields has been extremely instrumental in that so far.


Guthrie money won't get Shields done. If this year is a successful one and he exhibits no significant red flags, you probably need to put a 4/$60 extension offer on the table and hope he prefers that to the 1/$12 option you have on him.
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#1900791 - 04/23/13 01:58 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
This many experts can't be wrong about Myers — that he will in fact be a true superstar. Sorry, but six years of Wil Myers would have proven more important than two years of Shields, who is 31.

Look at the Brewers, who traded a haul of players for Zach. They wound up losing in the 1st round of the playoffs that year. Not sure they even won a game in the playoffs. They mortgaged their future for what? A 1st round playoff loss? A division title?

Yep, I would rather have Wil
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#1900868 - 04/23/13 04:50 PM Re: James Shields [Re: JFish26]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: JFish26
I would still undo the trade in a hot second if possible, but there was a time when Hosmer and Moustakas were as hot of commodities as Myers was this last offseason. I think two years of Shields are not worth six of Myers, in a vacuum, but I will concede that it is possible that these two years of Shields might be more important to the franchise.


OK, hypothetically, the trade is undone and never was. How did you replace Shields 4 game start with an ERA of 3.00 with 26K's and WIP of 1.11?

Please don't mention Chen, Hoch, or anyone in Omaha?
You also need to account for momentum and chemistry. Every time Shield battled against the opposing teams #1 and keep KC in the game, he gives everyone on the team hope and confidence. If Shields is not the #1, your #2 or #3 slides into his rotation spot and goes against the #1 that also effects your #3 now going against the other teams #2.

The Royals would probably have an losing records with all of the adjustments you just made by unwinding the deal.
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#1900870 - 04/23/13 04:52 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
...so in order to justify undoing the trade, I have to make a case based entirely on how the first three weeks of this one season went, in hindsight?
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#1900898 - 04/23/13 05:49 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
It depends on what your expectations of Shields are?

But unless KC wins a World Series with Shields as their ace, the Shields for Myers trade (yes, I know other players were involved) was not a very good one.

Essentially, a potential superstar was traded for a quality pitcher who happens to be 31.

Tampa Bay came away, clearly with the best overall player in the trade
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#1901013 - 04/23/13 11:15 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
tyler Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/30/07
Loc: Lawrence
I'm sorry yoda, how old is James Shields?
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#1901019 - 04/24/13 12:13 AM Re: James Shields [Re: tyler]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: tyler
I'm sorry yoda, how old is James Shields?



Starting pitcher
Born: December 20, 1981 (age 31)
Newhall, California
Bats: Right Throws: Right
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#1901021 - 04/24/13 12:18 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
tyler Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/30/07
Loc: Lawrence
Thanks dude.
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#1901029 - 04/24/13 01:50 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
No problem re-verifying his age for you
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#1901039 - 04/24/13 04:25 AM Re: James Shields [Re: tyler]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
And to clarify, Shields being 31 isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most elite pitchers are still in the midst of their prime at this age. And to further clarify, I think Shields is an excellent pitcher.

But at the end of the day, Tampa Bay won this trade on the strength of coming away with the best overall player in the trade — a future (fill in the blank how many times) All Star
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#1901051 - 04/24/13 07:42 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
KUSPORTSFAN93 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/30/09
Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
All the experts could totally be wrong. Baseball is very much a mental game. Myers could very easily never pan out. I doubt that happens but we ought not dismiss that possibility.
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#1901057 - 04/24/13 08:05 AM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
CrimsonNBlue Offline
Tee Y

Registered: 10/04/05
Loc: KC, MO
Originally Posted By: yoda
And to clarify, Shields being 31 isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most elite pitchers are still in the midst of their prime at this age. And to further clarify, I think Shields is an excellent pitcher.

But at the end of the day, Tampa Bay won this trade on the strength of coming away with the best overall player in the trade — a future (fill in the blank how many times) All Star


Relax man. We had this conversation for at least a month when the trade happened.

We all think we got fleeced.
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#1901170 - 04/24/13 10:58 AM Re: James Shields [Re: JFish26]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: JFish26
...so in order to justify undoing the trade, I have to make a case based entirely on how the first three weeks of this one season went, in hindsight?


Yes.

You can use hindsight now, or base your case using foresight on James Shields career average statistics. This sounds reasonable and logical to me.

Good Luck. No shame to change your mind.
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#1901172 - 04/24/13 11:00 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Of course JFish26,

You don't have to do anything as its just a life choice, nor do you have to say anything as you are entitled to your 5th amendment rights as you know in your line of expertise.
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#1901174 - 04/24/13 11:04 AM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: yoda
It depends on what your expectations of Shields are?

But unless KC wins a World Series with Shields as their ace, the Shields for Myers trade (yes, I know other players were involved) was not a very good one.

Essentially, a potential superstar was traded for a quality pitcher who happens to be 31.

Tampa Bay came away, clearly with the best overall player in the trade




What?

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#1901175 - 04/24/13 11:07 AM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: yoda
But at the end of the day, Tampa Bay won this trade on the strength of coming away with the best overall player in the trade — a future (fill in the blank how many times) All Star


Can you also tell me what the future lottery numbers are?

How are you not a General Manager for a sports team with your psychic ability?
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#1901285 - 04/24/13 02:10 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Let me break it down for you again Maximus. Myers will be a superstar — Shields is solid, but will never be a superstar. The Royals lost this trade. Hope that is clear enough for you
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#1901288 - 04/24/13 02:15 PM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: yoda
Let me break it down for you again Maximus. Myers will be a superstar — Shields is solid, but will never be a superstar. The Royals lost this trade. Hope that is clear enough for you


One guy has been an All-Star and had successful career in MLB. The other guy has only had success in the minor leagues.

What am I missing here?

Please stop as you think your on a trolling roll and you are failing.

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#1901585 - 04/25/13 07:53 AM Re: James Shields [Re: CrimsonNBlue]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Originally Posted By: CrimsonNBlue
Originally Posted By: yoda
And to clarify, Shields being 31 isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most elite pitchers are still in the midst of their prime at this age. And to further clarify, I think Shields is an excellent pitcher.

But at the end of the day, Tampa Bay won this trade on the strength of coming away with the best overall player in the trade — a future (fill in the blank how many times) All Star


Relax man. We had this conversation for at least a month when the trade happened.

We all think we got fleeced.


Speak for yourself, I don't feel that way at all.
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#1901586 - 04/25/13 07:56 AM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Originally Posted By: yoda
And to clarify, Shields being 31 isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most elite pitchers are still in the midst of their prime at this age. And to further clarify, I think Shields is an excellent pitcher.

But at the end of the day, Tampa Bay won this trade on the strength of coming away with the best overall player in the trade — a future (fill in the blank how many times) All Star


If the Royals window for success is probably 2 years, what good would it do for them to have Myers down in Omaha, and Hoch and Chen in the rotation. That is what it would be today if the trade didn't happen.
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#1901644 - 04/25/13 09:42 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Well, to be fair, the trade showed that the Royals had quite a bit of money to spend. What they didn't spend on Shields could have been applied to other pitching.
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#1901657 - 04/25/13 10:13 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
christgs80 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 05/17/04
And I also find it hard to believe the Royals, had they kept Myers, would have him down in Omaha.

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#1901670 - 04/25/13 10:30 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
The same financial considerations as are keeping him in Durham would have him in Omaha.
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#1901697 - 04/25/13 11:21 AM Re: James Shields [Re: JFish26]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: JFish26
The same financial considerations as are keeping him in Durham would have him in Omaha.



So you have pointed out facts that I agree with the Royals having extra money. Shield is getting paid 11,250,000 this year with an option for next.

Once again, if you still want to undo this trade, how did you replace Shields 4 game start with an ERA of 3.00 with 26K's and WIP of 1.11?
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#1901704 - 04/25/13 11:29 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Well, playing along with the silly "let's judge everything by what's happened as of April 25" game...

Shields: 3.00 ERA in 27 innings.

Ryan Dempster: 3.38 (24)

Anibal Sanchez: 1.75 (25.1)

Kyle Lohse: 2.52 (25)

Kevin Correia: 2.86 (28.1)

Hiroki Kuroda 2.35 (23)
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#1901750 - 04/25/13 12:11 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: Maximus
Originally Posted By: yoda
Let me break it down for you again Maximus. Myers will be a superstar — Shields is solid, but will never be a superstar. The Royals lost this trade. Hope that is clear enough for you


One guy has been an All-Star and had successful career in MLB. The other guy has only had success in the minor leagues.

What am I missing here?

Please stop as you think your on a trolling roll and you are failing.





Played baseball for 15 years. What about you?

Win fantasy baseball leagues every year. What about you?

Plus Maximus, this thread was dead until I came on and made the FIRST comment. Obviously nobody cared. So I guess my 'trolling' suddenly woke up your thread that nobody cared about.

I now regret ever commenting on your stupid thread. Won't ever make that mistake again. I provided my opinion of the trade -- and you get really offended. What's the point of ever commenting if your going to act like a little kid calling starting with the name-calling?

And by the way, you asked 'what has the other guy (Myers) ever done'? How about Baseball America's Minor League Player of the Year — in 2012.


Maximus, hate to break this to you, but you just aren't very bright. You and black and mild have a lot in common, you really do
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#1901918 - 04/25/13 03:24 PM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: yoda
Maximus, hate to break this to you, but you just aren't very bright. You and black and mild have a lot in common, you really do



I'll take that as a complement.
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#1901928 - 04/25/13 03:32 PM Re: James Shields [Re: JFish26]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Originally Posted By: JFish26
Well, playing along with the silly "let's judge everything by what's happened as of April 25" game...

Shields: 3.00 ERA in 27 innings.

Ryan Dempster: 3.38 (24)

Anibal Sanchez: 1.75 (25.1)

Kyle Lohse: 2.52 (25)

Kevin Correia: 2.86 (28.1)

Hiroki Kuroda 2.35 (23)




OK,

You are assuming you can get them to sign a contract to play for the Royals. Someone like Sanchez resigned and someone like Dempster with a previous ERA 5.09 should never have been thought about. Hindsight cannot be used as the trade that was went down during the winter.

I'll assume your done with this discussion unless you want to continue to debate over the matter.
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#1901981 - 04/25/13 04:18 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
KUSPORTSFAN93 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/30/09
Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
Oh boy, we know this thread has gone to hell when Maximus posts four times consecutively and Yoda cites his fantasy baseball victories as part of his argument.
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#1902108 - 04/25/13 08:46 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
This thread was actually dead in the water until I posted. Maximus is the one who [censored] it up
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#1902344 - 04/26/13 12:17 PM Re: James Shields [Re: christgs80]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Originally Posted By: christgs80
And I also find it hard to believe the Royals, had they kept Myers, would have him down in Omaha.


You had better believe it, because the Royals wouldn't have started his service time until they had to.
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#1904533 - 05/01/13 01:06 PM Re: James Shields [Re: jammahawk]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Yeah, that trade really sucks. Shields stops a two game skid that in previous years the Royals would have used as a spring board to begin a double didgit losing streak.
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#1904573 - 05/01/13 02:22 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
I agree to an extent. As far as Myers, it's more about him being a potential superstar down the road on the same level as Harper and Trout
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#1904801 - 05/01/13 07:37 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
KUSPORTSFAN93 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/30/09
Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
Wil Myers WILL NOT be Harper or Trout. He is going to be a very good player. Mike Trout and Bryce Harper are going to be HOFers, barring severely injury-plagued careers.
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'22 * '23 * '52 * '88 * '08

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#1905647 - 05/02/13 09:51 PM Re: James Shields [Re: KUSPORTSFAN93]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: KUSPORTSFAN93
Wil Myers WILL NOT be Harper or Trout. He is going to be a very good player. Mike Trout and Bryce Harper are going to be HOFers, barring severely injury-plagued careers.


He won't steal bases like Trout or even Harper, but he has plus/plus power and projects to be an excellent defensive player. All this added up, he has superstar potential like that of Trout and Harper. Just not the same base stealing type potential.

And how do you know that Myers won't one day wind up in the Hall of Fame? Just curious since he is Baseball America's No. 1 overall prospect
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#1905648 - 05/02/13 09:56 PM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
CrimsonNBlue Offline
Tee Y

Registered: 10/04/05
Loc: KC, MO
Myers not as good of a prospect as Profar and Bundy are.
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#1905649 - 05/02/13 09:58 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
christgs80 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 05/17/04
Bundy already having arm problems.

I'd rather have Myers over Bundy personally.

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#1905650 - 05/02/13 10:00 PM Re: James Shields [Re: christgs80]
CrimsonNBlue Offline
Tee Y

Registered: 10/04/05
Loc: KC, MO
Sounds like they and he are just being a little overcautious. Can't blame 'em.
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#1905660 - 05/02/13 10:56 PM Re: James Shields [Re: CrimsonNBlue]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: CrimsonNBlue
Myers not as good of a prospect as Profar and Bundy are.


Doubtful
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#1905661 - 05/02/13 10:57 PM Re: James Shields [Re: CrimsonNBlue]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: CrimsonNBlue
Sounds like they and he are just being a little overcautious. Can't blame 'em.



Ya think? He's out six weeks
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#1905836 - 05/03/13 01:25 PM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Originally Posted By: yoda
Originally Posted By: KUSPORTSFAN93
Wil Myers WILL NOT be Harper or Trout. He is going to be a very good player. Mike Trout and Bryce Harper are going to be HOFers, barring severely injury-plagued careers.


He won't steal bases like Trout or even Harper, but he has plus/plus power and projects to be an excellent defensive player. All this added up, he has superstar potential like that of Trout and Harper. Just not the same base stealing type potential.

And how do you know that Myers won't one day wind up in the Hall of Fame? Just curious since he is Baseball America's No. 1 overall prospect


No one knows, just like no one knows if Shields will be a Cy Young pitcher for the next couple of years.
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#1906149 - 05/04/13 12:52 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
And actually Trout has come back to Earth this year. He has yet to do anything special
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#1906151 - 05/04/13 12:56 PM Re: James Shields [Re: christgs80]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Originally Posted By: christgs80
Bundy already having arm problems.

I'd rather have Myers over Bundy personally.



Awfully, awfully hard to pick a pitching prospect over a hitting one, even a slightly inferior one.
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#1906153 - 05/04/13 01:01 PM Re: James Shields [Re: JFish26]
CrimsonNBlue Offline
Tee Y

Registered: 10/04/05
Loc: KC, MO
I certainly don't hope Myers doesn't live up to the hype, but it might give me a little bit of a confidence booster in Dayton if he turns out to be right about Myers.
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#1906156 - 05/04/13 01:04 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
KUSPORTSFAN93 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/30/09
Loc: Lawrence, Kansas
I don't profess to know anything absolutely, yoda. But go ahead and find me a few good baseball writers/analysts that will say they'd rather start a team tomorrow with Myers than with Trout or Harper. I'm not sure you'd find any.
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#1906241 - 05/04/13 08:09 PM Re: James Shields [Re: KUSPORTSFAN93]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: KUSPORTSFAN93
I don't profess to know anything absolutely, yoda. But go ahead and find me a few good baseball writers/analysts that will say they'd rather start a team tomorrow with Myers than with Trout or Harper. I'm not sure you'd find any.



You should go back and read what I already said. Myers has hitting potential that could rival Trout and possibly one day Harper. Again, he is not going to give you the stolen bases Trout will give you
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#1906244 - 05/04/13 08:13 PM Re: James Shields [Re: CrimsonNBlue]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: CrimsonNBlue
I certainly don't hope Myers doesn't live up to the hype, but it might give me a little bit of a confidence booster in Dayton if he turns out to be right about Myers.



What's that even supposed tp mean? Moore was trying to save his own hide when he dealt Myers. He was so desperate for quality pitching, he traded away the top prospect in baseball. He never thought Myers projected as a below average player, which seems to be what you're implying. Moore would have loved to have kept Myers, but felt he had know choice but to deal him away
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#1906246 - 05/04/13 08:16 PM Re: James Shields [Re: JFish26]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: JFish26
Originally Posted By: christgs80
Bundy already having arm problems.

I'd rather have Myers over Bundy personally.



Awfully, awfully hard to pick a pitching prospect over a hitting one, even a slightly inferior one.


Going back a few years, who would you have rather had if you could only pick one: Strasburg or Harper? I would choose Harper
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#1906248 - 05/04/13 08:22 PM Re: James Shields [Re: yoda]
CrimsonNBlue Offline
Tee Y

Registered: 10/04/05
Loc: KC, MO
Originally Posted By: yoda
He never thought Myers projected as a below average player, which seems to be what you're implying.


The word at the time of the trade was that Dayton and the Royals weren't near as high on Myers as the rest of the league was. Was so unsure that he threw in our most ready pitching prospect (Odorizzi) and a former top pitching prospect (Monty).

What a déjà vu thread.
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#1906263 - 05/04/13 08:49 PM Re: James Shields [Re: CrimsonNBlue]
yoda Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 03/06/09
Loc: Lawrence
Originally Posted By: CrimsonNBlue
Originally Posted By: yoda
He never thought Myers projected as a below average player, which seems to be what you're implying.


The word at the time of the trade was that Dayton and the Royals weren't near as high on Myers as the rest of the league was. Was so unsure that he threw in our most ready pitching prospect (Odorizzi) and a former top pitching prospect (Monty).

What a déjà vu thread.



Funny — Myers was Minor League Player of the Year
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#1906930 - 05/06/13 02:41 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
christgs80 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 05/17/04
Shields looks downright nasty today.

I gotta be honest...I'm starting to come around on this trade.

Still way too early to decide who "won" the deal, but for now, I'm happy with the performance of Shields, and to a degree, Davis.

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#1906974 - 05/06/13 03:38 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Lets also remember that Shield usually goes against the other teams #1 SP, with this time against Chris Sale who only gave up 1 run and should be good enough to win any game with that line.


Once again, the Royals need to score more runs for this man and he could be on the pace for a Cy Young award.

Would you give up a prospect for a Cy Young winner?


Side note. Billy Butler will look and play like Adam Dunn in a few years. Trade him now while he has value.
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#1906981 - 05/06/13 03:48 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
pwhittemore Offline
Satellite Coords Mod

Registered: 09/06/05
Loc: NYC
Shields with another game where he should have gotten a win...but won't.

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#1907034 - 05/06/13 05:42 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
PHOGUSHER Online   content
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Shields should either punch Yost or Getz after that game...Yost for pulling him while he was cruising at about the 100 pitch mark with 3 outs to go..puts Holland in and he is junk....Getz boots the 3rd out at 2nd and allows White Sox to tie the game...Ahh hell punch them both. Yost is the only reason that this team might not be a sucess this season. I dont think much of his decision making so far this year...
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#1907073 - 05/06/13 07:07 PM Re: James Shields [Re: PHOGUSHER]
41and2since94 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 03/14/10
Loc: Antarctica
Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Shields should either punch Yost or Getz after that game

Yost would be my vote. Question is: How much would I pay to see that?

Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Ahh hell punch them both.

Better idea. Getz is a hole in the lineup.

Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Yost is the only reason that this team might not be a success this season.

He's not the only reason. The Royals have too many holes in the lineup offensively to threaten Det-rot for the division unless Det-riot suffers some key injuries. I estimated the Yost penalty at 7 games for the season. Today was probably one of them. With replacement-level players in RF and at 2B, plus a first-half-of-2012 Moose, this team could overcome the Yost penalty.

Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
I dont think much of his decision making so far this year...

This isn't anything new with Ned. He simply doesn't have the aptitude to successfully manage a pitching staff or make other good in-game decisions.

Perhaps with the increased attention on the Royals this year, more will wake up to this realization. I made an out-on-a-limb prediction in the summer of 2010 (I'd seen enough) that the Royals will never make the playoffs with him as a manager. That's looking a little shaky so far this season, but I believe Ned's inner genius will take over and be the difference.
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#1907088 - 05/06/13 07:24 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
PHOGUSHER Online   content
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
Well thats just it...when I lived in the Atl I didnt pay attention to Neds bad decision making on a nightly basis because I had the Bravos. Since I am back here I am and its quite evident he is not a very good coach.


Edited by PHOGUSHER (05/06/13 07:24 PM)
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#1907269 - 05/07/13 09:57 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
PHOGUSHER Online   content
Original AFH Gangsta

Registered: 11/01/05
Loc: Western Kansas Hinderlands
The Royals with their weak bats have little room for error. This pitching staff fortunately will keep them in most games but they cant afford for Yost to make constant guffaws like he did yesterday. Unless Shields told him he was done there was no reason to yank him.
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#1907285 - 05/07/13 10:34 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
jayhawklouie Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 11/07/09
Loc: Kansas
I think Yost's decision to put Holland in was a mistake. And his reasoning for doing it after the game is head-scratching. Basically, he didn't want Shields to risk getting a loss? I know a lifelong Brewers fan who absolutely despised Yost's managing style. I remember him telling me all the time that Yost tinkered too much, wasn't a good game manager, and that he was arrogant in pressers.

Joe Posnanski, as usual, has a good take. Here's the ending portion of JoePo's blog:


"Again, I’m not saying the decision was wrong. I’m saying that I would like to know why Ned Yost did it …and his explanation does not clarify things at all. If he did it for health reasons, because he noticed something, or for sound reasons he would rather not make public, hey, that’s part of the game too.

But he did not offer any of that in his explanation. And if he did it because he believes in push-button managing with a starter having his job, a closer having his job, a setup man having his job, a lefty specialist having his job, well, that’s not great. The Royals have a pretty good team here. Ned Yost has gotta raise his game."

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2013/05/hes-either-going-to-win-it-or-lose-it.html

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#1907288 - 05/07/13 10:39 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
pwhittemore Offline
Satellite Coords Mod

Registered: 09/06/05
Loc: NYC
You need to establish a bullpen/closer. You can't always rely on your no. 1 to pitch the entire game--a system needs to be in place to allow for the specialists to try and do their job.

I'm fine with Yost pulling Shields there.

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#1907301 - 05/07/13 11:00 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
christgs80 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 05/17/04
I'm ok with it, but be consistent. He had the same exact situation Saturday night with Guthrie, but decided to let Guthrie pitch the 9th.

If all things were the same (i.e. both guys still being fine and ready to go), then Yost should have let Shields atleast start the 9th.

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#1907321 - 05/07/13 11:28 AM Re: James Shields [Re: pwhittemore]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Originally Posted By: pwhittemore
You need to establish a bullpen/closer.


Why?
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#1907325 - 05/07/13 11:34 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
jayhawklouie Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 11/07/09
Loc: Kansas
Yes, a closer needs to be established. Yes, a system needs to be established.

But there needs to be common sense for managers as well. Shields was dominating the Sox. He finished the 8th by picking off a runner at first. Shields had it going on. Big time.

It's only early May, but sweeping the Sox before going out East would be huge. Letting Shields close out a game and get a 1-0 win over Sale would huge for Shields' confidence.

Yes, bringing in Holland isn't the worst thing ever. But Yost's explanation afterwards might be. Yost said if they had a 2 or 3 run lead, maybe he'd have kept Shields in the game. Huh?

And as christgs80 points out, Guthrie got to go out in the 9th, having pitched just 4 less pitches than Shields.

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#1907359 - 05/07/13 12:47 PM Re: James Shields [Re: pwhittemore]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Originally Posted By: pwhittemore
You need to establish a bullpen/closer. You can't always rely on your no. 1 to pitch the entire game--a system needs to be in place to allow for the specialists to try and do their job.

I'm fine with Yost pulling Shields there.


Yost should have let Shields start the 9th, and pulled if if he let anyone on.
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#1907360 - 05/07/13 12:49 PM Re: James Shields [Re: christgs80]
jammahawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 01/02/05
Loc: In the Corleone compound
Originally Posted By: christgs80
Shields looks downright nasty today.

I gotta be honest...I'm starting to come around on this trade.

Still way too early to decide who "won" the deal, but for now, I'm happy with the performance of Shields, and to a degree, Davis.


Makes no difference how Myers does if there is a winner in the deal. If Shields and Davis do what they were brought over to do, then it was a good deal.
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#1907368 - 05/07/13 01:10 PM Re: James Shields [Re: JFish26]
pwhittemore Offline
Satellite Coords Mod

Registered: 09/06/05
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: JFish26
Originally Posted By: pwhittemore
You need to establish a bullpen/closer.


Why?


So Royals just plan on playing their starting guys 9 innings a game? Find out who your guys are and when they should pitch. It's early--I like trying to solidify a closer.

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#1907376 - 05/07/13 01:24 PM Re: James Shields [Re: pwhittemore]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Originally Posted By: pwhittemore
Originally Posted By: JFish26
Originally Posted By: pwhittemore
You need to establish a bullpen/closer.


Why?


So Royals just plan on playing their starting guys 9 innings a game? Find out who your guys are and when they should pitch. It's early--I like trying to solidify a closer.


Well, just with respect to yesterday...Shields was cruising. No reason to believe he wasn't the best option for the 9th.

But generally...the concept of a closer is the tail (the save stat) wagging the dog (the manager). There might be situations where the right guy for the 9th isn't Holland. Or where Holland is the right guy for a different situation. Shouldn't let the mechanics of the save stat dictate how you use your bullpen.
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#1907402 - 05/07/13 02:04 PM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
41and2since94 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 03/14/10
Loc: Antarctica
"You need to establish a closer" smacks of the push-button-managing approach Posnanski mentioned. I liken it to volleyball: bump, set, spike with little variation. Starter, setup, closer. Any four-year old could copy this mechanical approach. Recently we've occasionally been granted a small reprieve from bump-set-spike, but clearly not enough.

Ride the hot hand. It's that simple. If someone looks unhittable for an inning, don't be afraid to let them start another. Don't get carried away with trying to finesse matchups. Sometimes it feels like Yost's bullpen approach is: "If you won't fail, I'll find someone who will."

If you have Mariano Rivera in his prime, sure, you can become more mechanical in your approach. There's a competitive psychological advantage there. When you have the reverse (as the Royals amazingly do this most of this season), you leave your hot hand (usually the starter) in there until he loses it or you're beginning to risk injury. In most cases, the opposing hitters are RELIEVED when Shields, Santana or Guthrie depart. Don't give them that psychological advantage until you HAVE to.
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#1907796 - 05/08/13 11:47 AM Re: James Shields [Re: Maximus]
Maximus Online   confused
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/30/12
Loc: Trance Land
Shields getting a little Yahoo Sports love. Writer admits to not being the only one to be critical about Shields as a pitcher and the trade that bought him to KC.

Maybe Shields won't continue pitching lights out for the whole year, but as KC Royals fans we are entitled to enjoy this while in the moment as it "hasn't past" like Crash Davis from Bull Durham.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/fantasy-ro...pWB1NluHW5bZ8u]
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