Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1326 - 03/30/04 07:24 AM Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home *****
JayhawkBob Offline
John Brown

Registered: 08/20/03
Loc: Ohio
Interesting stat - Duke at home committed 73 less fouls than their opponents this year and only had 2 player foul out the entire season.

Don't shake hands in pregame warm-ups, you might be charged with a foul!!!!

Do we get that home cookin at AFH???

Top
#1327 - 03/30/04 08:47 AM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: JayhawkBob]
DieHard Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/16/03
I think we get some calls when we play at the our house.
I've watched a few Duke games in my days and they get all the calls. There has been a few were I had to stop watching because it's so one sided.
I wouldn't want to be a ref anywhere anytime.
DH

Top
#1328 - 03/30/04 10:14 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: JayhawkBob]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
Wah wah wah. Duke gets all the calls. Wah wah wah.

That is pure baloney. Did it ever cross your mind that a team that has won 31 games against 5 losses is going to get fouled a lot towards the end of games because that's what losing teams do in an attempt to stop the clock and put the winning team on the line? Duke lost 1 game t home this year, so I would imagine that this was happening a lot. If you ask me, only 73 less fouls than their opponents seems kinda low for such a dominant team.

Of course home teams always get the calls (are you trying to make the case that KU doesn't in AFH???), but did it ever cross your mind that they are a very disciplined team that rarely is in foul trouble? Did it cross your mind to see how many less fouls KU had in AFH this year tha their opponents? Of course you didn't, because you just read that little stat somewhere and then paste it on here as if you did the research. Without Gravey, how many KU players fouled out this year? Probably more than 2, yeah, but not a whole lot.

I am not a Duke fan, but this is just ridiculous.


Top
#1329 - 03/30/04 10:17 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: Richardhead]
JayhawkBob Offline
John Brown

Registered: 08/20/03
Loc: Ohio
I think you need to switch to decafe - I didn't read the stat anywhere, I did the research on it - and BTW, I do hate Duke.

Top
#1330 - 03/30/04 10:19 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: JayhawkBob]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
Well then, you need to learn the fine art of making valid inferences. Think about your data and then try to make some logical conclusions.

You are right, I am sorry. You didn't read the stat anywhere, because if you had surely the person reporting it would have offered plausible reasons why they had 73 less fouls than their opponents, not just the silly Duke-had-less-fouls-than-their-opponents-so-the-refs-all-love-Duke.


Top
#1331 - 03/30/04 10:20 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: Richardhead]
elan71 Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/15/03
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN
i agree...why are we even talking about duke on a kansas message board? we didn't play them this year, didn't lose and recruits to them, didn't really do anything with them at all for the last couple of years. so why are we talking about them in this context? get over the duke hype, it's people like this poster that makes them so annoying. if people would just stop making a big deal about them then it wouldn't be a big deal! pretty simple.
_________________________
"one beaker for another" philippians 4:13

Top
#1332 - 03/30/04 10:22 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: elan71]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
amen, elan.

Top
#1333 - 03/30/04 11:28 AM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: JayhawkBob]
JayhawkZX12R Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 01/14/04
Loc: Wherever I May Roam
Quote:
Don't shake hands in pregame warm-ups, you might be charged with a foul!!!!

I like that!

Top
#1334 - 03/30/04 12:25 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: JayhawkZX12R]
JayhawkBob Offline
John Brown

Registered: 08/20/03
Loc: Ohio
Ya know, it's funny when I posted this stat about fouls - I didn't think it would be so controversial - facts are facts

Top
#1335 - 03/30/04 01:41 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: JayhawkBob]
BankerJHawk Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 03/23/04
Loc: Tulsa, OK
Only because you said the magic word........DOOK. If the fact concerned, let's say... Pacific, no one would have said Boo.

Top
#1336 - 03/30/04 04:35 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: JayhawkBob]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
Facts are facts, yes.

But do you understand that validity has to do with the inferences certain facts permit? The facts that you posted are not controversial. Your silly conclusion is what's at issue, or at least that's what I was interested in.

Top
#1337 - 03/30/04 05:35 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: Richardhead]
JayhawkBob Offline
John Brown

Registered: 08/20/03
Loc: Ohio
I didn't reach a conclusion - I think that the refs have no motivation to treat Duke different but I think they do sometimes - the numbers kinda speak for themselves.

Top
#1338 - 03/30/04 06:10 PM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: elan71]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
I look forward to the day that Coach K retires. He is just consistantly too damn good.

Top
#1339 - 03/30/04 06:41 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: Richardhead]
dughawk Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 12/15/02
Richardhead,
You are a little too strident here, I think. Your suggested conclusion (lots of fouls on Duke because they win a lot) is also conjecture. If you presented data showing that they win a lot of CLOSE games at home, and that they shoot many more non-shooting foul free throws (i.e., one and one) than other teams (meaning that they are fouled when the object of the foul is to induce a change in possession of the ball) in which case lots of fouls might be a tactic the opposing and losing team would use, then your idea might be a good one. As it stands, your lack of corroborating data makes your conclusion no more sound than the other one offered, but you present yours with a great deal more grating and gnashing.

Top
#1340 - 03/30/04 08:23 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: dughawk]
MICHHAWK Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/29/02
Loc: Port Huron MI
dick head enjoys talking down to us a little too much. I picture him with a thesaurus on his lap as he types away.

Top
#1341 - 03/30/04 08:28 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: dughawk]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
You are a real piece of work, duggiehawk. My lack of corroborating data? I think if you take the time to actually read what I said in my original post, I am just offering a hypothesis, not a conclusion like JayhawkBob. I don't know much, but I do know this: Duke has played 36 games and has only been called for 73 less fouls than their opponents. That is 2 fouls per game, big boy. Show me where the bias is. Duke has won 31 of those 36 games, and if you think for 1 second that they are not constantly getting fouled at the end of games because they are in the lead and the other team is looking to change possession, you have not seen many bball games in your time.

Here's a friendly bit of advice: try going after the content of posts, not individual posters. Your disdain for me is admirable, but it's nothing new. Ask Pukey. It is actually flattering to see your reactionary spirit to my posts, but you fool nobody.

Top
#1342 - 03/30/04 08:30 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: MICHHAWK]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
dick head enjoys talking down to us a little too much. I picture him with a thesaurus on his lap as he types away.

If you can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen. I appreciate the flattering comment. I realize that my lexicon strains the average poster on here, I'll try to translate where necessary.

Top
#1343 - 03/30/04 08:38 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: Richardhead]
NotAPuke Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/28/02
Loc: Kansas
The only time you strain anything is to, well, I'd have to ban myself so I won't say, but lets just say you are not any more intelligent than your average (___fill in the blan___).
_________________________
The number of people who show up for your funeral will always depend on the weather.

Top
#1344 - 03/30/04 08:38 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: Richardhead]
NotAPuke Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 08/28/02
Loc: Kansas
The only time you strain anything is to, well, I'd have to ban myself so I won't say, but lets just say you are not any more intelligent than your average (___fill in the blank___).
_________________________
The number of people who show up for your funeral will always depend on the weather.

Top
#1345 - 03/30/04 08:40 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: NotAPuke]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
If you want to match Vitas, bring it.

Top
#1346 - 03/30/04 09:03 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: dughawk]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
The Hawks played 33 games this year for a 24-9 record.

Kansas this year was whistled for 661 fouls, while their opponents were called for 662. Amazing parity across the entire season, but when you look at these numbers a little closer, interesting patterns emerge. In losses, KU out-fouled their opponents by a margin of 196-165, or almost 4 more fouls per losing game than their foes. This empirically suggests that in fact, when a team is losing, they tend to foul more. Without going through the game film I cannot determine if the bulk of these fouls occurred toward the end of the game, but this is probably a safe assumption.

Now if you look at Duke, which I did, I found several errors in jayhawkBob's "research." First of all, Duke committed 675 fouls versus 756 for their opponents, a difference of 81 (which is actually greater than what Bobby boy said). Anyway, Duke played 36 games for a 31-5 record. In losing efforts, however, like Kansas, Duke outfouled their opponents by a margin of 116-101, suggesting that like Kansas, when a team loses, they tend to foul more. In home games, Duke was called for 253 fouls in 15 games, or an average of 18.07 fouls per game in Cameron Indoor. Overall, Duke was averaged 18.75 fouls per game for the season. While only a negligible difference, this higher number of average fouls away from Cameron Indoor is due to the fact that Duke lost 4 games away from home and out-fouled their opponents in those contests. In the one game Duke lost at home, Duke had 24 fouls while Georgia Tech had 22. In home games Duke actually had 4 players foul out this season. On the road, also only 4 players fouled out.

All these data seem pretty even, suggesting Duke is a well-balanced and disciplined team. They in fact are not benefiting from "homer" calls as JayhawkBob and DugHawk suggest. In games they win--which is a lot--they get fouled a lot. In games they lose, they foul more than their opponent.

So while some people can continue to look for excuses as to why Duke is so good, this ain't one of them. All of these data are even more amazing when you consider that 22 of Duke's 36 games this year were against NCAA Tourney teams. They weren't playing no slouches.

Top
#1347 - 03/30/04 09:27 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: Richardhead]
pktwhawks Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 03/30/04
Refs don't win games and they don't lose them either. KU fans are starting to sound like MU fans--knock it off. Siemen doesn't hardly touch the ball the last 10 minutes, we missed at least 5 free throws the last 5 minutes, Graves and Miles both missed a layup, and Miles plain fell asleep as the floor leader who has been to 2 final fours. By the way, Langford DID foul the guy, and the ref was not 80 feet away. When we decide to play 6 games in a row we will win a tournament, until then it will be the same outcome every year.

Top
#1348 - 03/30/04 09:31 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: pktwhawks]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
This was my original point that was lost on several. Thanks for doing a better job than I for making it clear.

cheers!

Top
#1349 - 03/30/04 09:34 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: Richardhead]
pktwhawks Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 03/30/04
Your welcome. I agree with the points you have made, and really believe others out there understand, just refuse to accept facts.

Top
#1350 - 03/31/04 07:59 PM Re: Bring your own Refs if you play Duke at home [Re: JayhawkBob]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
I'd be lying if I said I was surprised that hard data intimidated some people. Or did it just shut some people up?

Top
#1351 - 04/01/04 02:57 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: JayhawkBob]
jhawk1979 Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/14/03
Loc: Red Stick, Louisiana
I'm with you JayhawkBob, Duke does get all the calls, especially when they NEED one. And that's not crying Dick Head, that's the opinion of a lot of basketball fans.


_________________________
"Pay no attention to that man behind the Website curtain. He's a Moderator."

Top
#1352 - 04/01/04 06:33 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: elan71]
KUSU Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 03/08/04
Loc: Buffalo NY
yeah like people will stop overhyping PUKE. HA
_________________________
Face it, KU is a big deal!

Top
#1353 - 04/01/04 08:20 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: jhawk1979]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
You are clueless, 79.


Top
#1354 - 04/01/04 08:13 PM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: jhawk1979]
pktwhawks Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 03/30/04
If Duke got all the calls they would win the tourney every year which they do not. For the people talking about what leagues "crews" that were working the NCAA--get a clue. These guys don't just work one league they all work multiple leagues, and these guys don't say to themselves, hey what league is this team from, I'll call this. Have any of you complaining about the officials ever officiated any game let alone a NCAA division 1 game? Stop the crying, if we would have shot anymore free throws we would have just missed them.

Top
#1355 - 04/02/04 12:12 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: pktwhawks]
Hawkster Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 02/19/04
I love it when new people come, spew a little bit and run off into never never land.

Top
#1356 - 04/02/04 08:37 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: Richardhead]
yomang Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 04/15/03
I think that it is time to recycle a post that was written by one of the most respected and most well liked former posters on this board, Copperhead. Frankly it hits the nail on the head regarding this situation.


In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For at least the better part of a year you've worn the various hats of attack dog, prankster, moderator harasser and sadistic bully - especially to posters of lesser intellect.
You've posted the private address & phone number of someone completely unrelated to this board and more or less made participation here singularly unpleasant.
You make sport of my post number and some sort of imagined sycophantic following I've amassed. If you'd stayed with one screen name longer than a day, I figure you'd be in the thousands as well - and have as many enemies as I've made friends. No secret formula - I'm a nice guy and you are not.
Now, inexplicably, you're adopting the persona of nice guy basketball expert who just wants to exchange opinions with the peanut gallery. Knowing you as long as I have, all I can think of is - OK, here's the bait, when do we get the switch?
I suppose thanks are in order for running most of the regulars off to a private board - someplace far less stressful than one which tolerates the daily nonsense you've provided here.
With everything you've been responsible for over all these months, the fact that you can't understand why the moderators pick on you is beyond delusional.
One thing for sure - you've finally found a screen name that's truth in advertizing. I hope you wear it for a long time to let people know exactly what they're getting.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I thought perhaps that you could behave Richardhead, but I have grown sick of you continually demeaning others on this board.


Top
#1357 - 04/02/04 09:09 AM Re: Wah wah wah, I hate Duke, wah wah wah [Re: yomang]
Richardhead Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 03/13/04
Pay attention newcomers: don't follow the lead of the mods.

And Yo...you are a loser. Band together when you have a hard time dealing with me one-on-one. If you can't stand the heat, getcha ass out the kitchen!

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Preview