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#1276224 - 10/07/10 03:52 PM Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare?
caddystacks Offline
Jhaux

Registered: 11/21/09
Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare?
by PenguinHawk on Oct 5, 2010 8:53 AM CDT


I've posted a couple of things on this subject on threads recently, but I wanted to explain my position a little more in-depth...

Over the last couple of days, I'm not sure there's a cliche being thrown around Lawrence more than "the cupboard is bare" (ok, maybe that and "legalize it"). General perception of the football team right now is that Mangino simply left us nothing after Reesing, Meier, Sharp, Briscoe and Stuckey left. Moreover, I'm routinely hearing that Mangino failed to capitalize on the team's success in '07 and '08, and couldn't use it to land any solid recruits. I get that. We were good and now we suck, and we need someone to blame.



The problem is that this viewpoint ignores a couple of very important facts about recruiting. One is that recruiting success typically trails on-field success by one to two full years' recruiting cycles. To illustrate, we already had half our 2011 class orally committed before week one of this season. That's how it works in modern football. Our performance on the field in 2010 will have almost no effect on the 2011 recruiting class, since most of these kids have a pretty good idea of what they will do. Sure, if we go 2-10 we may lose one or two commits, but by and large the recruiting class is what it is already, since recruits base their decision off far more than the weekly ups or downs of a team during their senior year.

Obviously, the 2008 recruiting class (this year's Juniors and redshirt Sophomores) was the same way. The next year's talent we were pursuing (and had a chance at) didn't change based upon our record in 2007. The kids it would have affected were the high school sophomores and juniors still in the recruiting process, and still narrowing down their prospective schools. For them, seeing a 12-1 season would have a major impact, because their choices are still more open, and their opinions of the teams are still forming.

That's why recruiting experts caution fans to wait a class or two before expecting results from solid seasons on the field. The swell in recruiting KU fans are looking for wouldn't be evident in our uperclassmen. They were watching KU struggle for bowl eligibility during their recruiting process, and their talent level is about what you'd expect.

The problem we are seeing right now is that Mangino had a couple of inexplicably mediocre recruiting classes after several years of finding diamonds in the rough like Reesing, Meier, Briscoe, Stuckey, Talib, McClinton, etc. What we're seeing in this team's juniors and seniors is the result of our recruiting success falling back to earth after several overachieving classes, not Mangino failing to capitalize on 2007.

The frustrating truth is, we don't yet know how Mangino did in using the Orange Bowl season to his advantage. That will only be evident in the '09 and '10 classes. If you want to judge him in that regard, you can't look at Capra, Wilson, Harris, Dudley, Barfield, the Johnsons, etc. You have to look at Bradley McDougald, James Sims, Kevin Young, Keba Aghostino, Jordan Webb, DJ Beshears, Chris Omegie, Huldon Tharp, Toben Opurum, Keeston Terry, and a bunch of guys who haven't seen the field yet. And the fact is we can't judge them yet because the sample size is too small. Few players stand out in their freshman and sophomore years.

The furthest I'm willing to go on Mangino's post-'07 recruiting efforts is that he didn't land anyone who turned into an immediate impact player (although a case could be made for Huldon Tharp last year). Beyond that, the jury still has to be out, unless you're willing to start judging every recruiting class based on their performance as freshmen.

Things are bad, but let's watch these classes mature before we write off the entire roster as a squandered opportunity.
http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2010/10/4/1730821/did-mangino-leave-the-cupboard-bare


Edited by caddystacks (10/07/10 10:56 PM)

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#1276225 - 10/07/10 09:34 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: caddystacks]
rockymtnjhawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 10/08/02
Loc: Colorado
I would venture a guess that he didn't improve the overall team speed much. And there should have been d-linemen to step up and there seems to be a huge void there. I suppose Parrish and Greene were supposed to be the guys, but they couldn't get on the field last year with MM so they were or can now be officially labeled as busts.

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#1276226 - 10/07/10 10:03 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: caddystacks]
ku_painter Offline
Pixel Gangster

Registered: 02/21/05
Loc: Rockin a dial-up connection
Nice cut and paste. Can you ever generate your own content ?
_________________________
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#1276227 - 10/07/10 10:03 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: rockymtnjhawk]
namohcan_99 Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 01/23/05
Loc: Wichita, KS
We need more cowbell for this thread.

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#1276228 - 10/07/10 10:07 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: namohcan_99]
sdoyel Offline
LIKE A BOSS

Registered: 09/23/03
Loc: Dallas
caddystacks. Go the fukc away.
_________________________
F.O.E.
"We just say let your nuts hang...." -Darnell Jackson
#KUboobs

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#1276229 - 10/07/10 10:16 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: sdoyel]
tophawk87 Offline
Big Dipper

Registered: 03/19/05
Loc: Dallas, TX
Q: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare?
A: Yes, they tired of his schtick, and word got out
_________________________
"Wise men still seek Him..."

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#1276230 - 10/07/10 10:51 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: tophawk87]
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Q: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare?




A: Yes, he had a huge appetite.

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#1276231 - 10/07/10 10:55 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare?
caddystacks Offline
Jhaux

Registered: 11/21/09
we knew Reesing was good right away

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#1276232 - 10/07/10 10:56 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: caddystacks]
WisconsinJayhawk Offline
Rhubarber of Seville

Registered: 10/25/04
Nothing else going on in football this evening?
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#1276233 - 10/07/10 11:02 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: WisconsinJayhawk]
Sparko Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 12/10/05
Loc: NJ
I am hoping Gill calls Herm Edwards for game planning advice--I think we can give up more yards to second rate teams.

The Big XII is really down this year. . .

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#1276234 - 10/07/10 11:22 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: caddystacks]
beenahawk Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
I'd say that he got too caught up in "projecting" LB's to be DT's, TE's to be OT's, QB's to be WR's, etc. that he did forget to actually recruit directly to a couple of positions.

One of my main beefs with the Buddha was the constant experimentation....going back to Cornish who the Big Man thought would be a better LB than RB. That and his love affair with the bubble screen.
_________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help." (Ronald Reagan)

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#1276235 - 10/07/10 11:35 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: beenahawk]
KMan_24 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 05/26/05
The game has always been won or lost in the trenches. I really think our skill guys are just fine. But line play is the game changer. When have we ever had a dominate line on either side of the ball? And apparently Chris Dawson ran them too much as per his players in the article about Big John. Did he realize they are playing football and not tractor pull at the county fair? The ESPN crew didn't seem all that impressed by their workout with Dawson in Manhappy this week.

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#1276236 - 10/08/10 08:12 AM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: KMan_24]
KUHawkhead Offline
Wilt Chamberlain

Registered: 09/01/02
Loc: Mc to the Pherson
We dominated both sides in 2007. There is your answer.

RCJHKU!
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It's MISSOURI. We don't lose to them at home-Bill Self-2/25/2012

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#1276237 - 10/08/10 08:52 AM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: KUHawkhead]
oldalum Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 02/25/05
I think we should also consider that Mangino was recruiting guys with the skill-set to play the spread offense. They don't necessarily fit now, even though they may be good players.

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#1276238 - 10/08/10 12:02 PM Re: Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare? [Re: oldalum]
track Offline
gale sayers

Registered: 01/18/06
Loc: Topeka,Kansas
Spread offense recruits speed...against Baylor it was obvious they were much faster than us...so he wasn't very successful if that was his target.

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