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#11998 - 09/24/06 01:31 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: rockchalk2305]
tulsahawk13 Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 09/28/05
I should've said the last 9, then it would be 3 to 2. Sorry, I didn't feel like looking it up the first time. They're still a better example than the Royals.
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"We're sorta like 7-Eleven. We're not always doing business, but we're always open."

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#11999 - 09/24/06 03:03 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: tulsahawk13]
JHAWX75 Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 01/13/06
Loc: 911's A Joke!
And enough talk about all the homegrown talent you've produced, if you take out the foreign players that you simply give the most money to, we're talking about 4 or 5 guys.
__________________________________________________________

Robinson Cano: 381,100.

Hell even the Royals could afford that.

Chien-Ming Wang: 353,175

Again, even the Royals could afford that.

Mariano Rivera signed for pennies as a amateur FA in 1990. His first MLB contract in 1995 was for 109,000.

Bernie Williams signed his first contract in '91 for a whopping 100,00 dollars.

Posada signed in '97 for 158,500.

If these above mentioned players were available for ANY team to sign, why was it the Yankees were the ones to sign them? Obviously it wasnt cause they offered millions. It's called scouting. Talent goes far beyond college and high school. This game is OWNED by foreign players. Your point is as sharp as 154's marble. Every MLB team had the god given right to sign any of these players, the Yankees exercised theirs.

And the last three, Posada, Rivera and Williams? How many rings do they got? They EARNED their big contracts. Yanks didnt rob any team of those players or give up draft picks either. They kept who they scouted, wouldnt the Royals do the same? Oops, sorry.


Out of 30 some teams you found 1, the Marlins, who did something NO other team has done by dismantling and remantling. You talk as if thats the norm in baseball. If they done it KC could do it, right? Mariners could. Devil Rays could. I wont waste time naming others. Bottom line is they wont do it.

And I liked how you danced around my statement about "what if the Royals signed Ryan Howard would they be pissed?" Because Howard is having a MVP season you chose a rebuttal about a Yankee. Classic dance. Answer the question. Would you be pissed signing Howard? Pujols? Hypothetically, i'm looking at big time players for the Royals to sign. You comeback with, what I consider, busts. That's a Royal mentality though. Kind of like the SNL skit about the girl who always brings everyone down.

In all seriousness, the reason you cant spend that much is beacuse your not worth that much, and it's not their fault. Yankees have been around since the early 1900's. Royals have been around since, what, the 70's? You think this Yankees and what their worth started when Steinbrenner took over? They have a bank account that started when Babe Ruth signed. So of course they will have more money. Kind of like the fine wine, you think your bottle of wine dated 1969 is worth more than my bottle that is dated 1913? Maybe you need schooled on economics. Speaking of wine!


War to the Yankees, their 26 rings, 39 pennants, and 45 playoff appearences.

Also, war to the Royals, their one ring, 2 pennants and 7 playoff appearences.
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it takes a nation of millions to hold us back

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#12000 - 09/24/06 03:24 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: JHAWX75]
tulsahawk13 Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 09/28/05
300,000 x 25= 7.5 million (those small salaries that were paid to minor leaguers multiplied by how many are on each team)

7.5 million x 3= 22.5 million (number of minor league teams)

Since that's almost our entire budget, including big leaguers, I'm gonna say no the Royals can't afford to sign the same talent to minor league contracts. Would I be pissed if we signed Howard or Pujols.... well since those contracts would be somewhere between $15-20 million a year for Howard, and probably in the $25 million a year range for Pujols and our budget is around $35 million, yeah I'd be pissed. We could sign one great player and surround him with worse pitching than what we currently have (if that's possible) and even worse fielders surrounding him. I'll be ecstatic when Sweeney is out of here so we can take his contract that takes up roughly 1/3 of our entire budget out of the mix. We'd be idiots to sign anyone to that large of a contract whether they produce or not.

Will you acknowledge the fact that the Marlins have the better scouting/developmental department or are the Yanks just the best at everything?

In all seriousness the reason the Yankees can spend so much more than everybody else is: gate revenues, merchandise, the fact that they have their very own TV network, the largest market in sports, and oh yeah the number one reason would be that there isn't a SALARY CAP like there is in every other professional sport. Where would the Packers be if there wasn't a salary cap in football? Chances are they'd have followed the Montreal Expos and would not exist. The economics of the game has been the most disturbing trend in baseball the last few years, and it worries me far more than steroids. If this keeps up there will be about 8 teams left in 20 years, and I promise I'll quit watching baseball before I start rooting for one of them.
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"We're sorta like 7-Eleven. We're not always doing business, but we're always open."

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#12001 - 09/24/06 03:59 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: tulsahawk13]
JHAWX75 Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 01/13/06
Loc: 911's A Joke!
Why do you have a problem then with the Yankees signing someone for 300,000 or 100,000? (Cano,Wang,Cabrera). If the Yankees were the highest bidder and they still get criticized for offering those contracts then those players would still be in their respective countries playin' dirtball. If these players were with ANY other team it would be "good scouting", i.e Marlins. And no doubt the Marlins have proved to be the best scouts in MLB. What they did was a miracle that has never happened before('97,'03). I have said a couple of posts ago that Steinbrenner hit the panic button after '01. He signed Mussina, Giambi, Johnson, Pavano, Rodriguez, Matsui, Sheffield, Damon and now Abreu. I personally was madd happy during the 96-00 run(minus '97). Most of those signings were hardly necessary, even by Yankee standards. But as a Yankee fan, what do you do, switch teams? You just shake your head and raise the eybrow and go "I hope this works out". Well, it hasnt. The only good signings so far, to me, have been Damon and Mussina. Mussina filled a pitching spot and Damon has been Damon. All others they could of done without.

My point on the Royals is: they plant a seed. But before spring comes they dont get a chance to see it bloom cause they gave the flower to another team. If they prove to scout like the Marlins, and the Marlins only, then I would be impressed. But guys like Teahen who are good players, Grudzielanek, Emil Brown, Dejesus who are good players might see more money and have to make a decision on whats best for them.



Esteban German makes 333,000. Cano is making that much


Jorge Alberto De La Rosa makes 337,000. Wang makes as much.


Ambiorix Burgos makes 339,500. Cabrera makes as much.

You made a statement earlier that you couldnt afford a contract like Cano's or Wang's but can absorb these? Those same players were scouted by every team but because the Yankees happened to sign them it's time to say they paid to much.
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#12002 - 09/24/06 04:34 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: JHAWX75]
tulsahawk13 Offline
Phog Fanatic

Registered: 09/28/05
I'll never claim we've got the best scouting department, I've been saying for quite a while that the best thing we could do would be to invest more into scouting and our farm clubs. I actually love the direction that we're going right now, and I'll be very happy to take another last place finish next season as long as we keep potential stars like Gordon, and Butler in the minors, and do something with the 4 consecutive top 3 picks we'll have. Add letting Sweeney walk or trade him for prospects and we've got an extra $11 million we can throw at a couple good pitchers. The key for us is going to be the stockpiling of talent, and then in 2-4 years we'll bring up all that talent at the same time. By doing so their arbitration dates will all coincide and we'll have 3 years or so to put a winner on the field. If the young guys start winning while they have decent salaries, we'll get larger attendance, more merchandise money, and hopefully an added boost of playoff money. Then as our revenue increases we can start paying the best of the crop the money they deserve.

As much as it might sound like it, I'm not hating on the Yanks, I'm hating on baseball a system that lets one team spend about $200,000 million, and another less that $15, I'd be very happy if there was a $100,000 million ceiling, where every team had to spend at least 50 and no one could go over 150. Wouldn't that be somewhat fair?
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"We're sorta like 7-Eleven. We're not always doing business, but we're always open."

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#12003 - 09/24/06 10:07 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: tulsahawk13]
JHAWX75 Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 01/13/06
Loc: 911's A Joke!
I totally agree.

I wish Steinbrenner/Cashman would stay with the farm and mold their players. One i do miss is Alfonso Soriano. In a second I would take him back instead of Arod. However, Cano would of probably got traded and never would of played second. Even in '98, which is arguebly the best Yankee teams ever('27 was the best imo), people hated the Yankees won. But money couldnt be the issue cause their salaries werent even blown up:

Bernie Williams $8,300,000.00
David Cone $6,666,667.00
Chuck Knoblauch $6,000,000.00
Paul O'Neill $5,500,000.00
David Wells $4,666,666.00
Chili Davis $4,333,333.00
Tino Martinez $4,300,000.00
Andy Pettitte $3,800,000.00
Hideki Irabu $2,925,000.00
Joe Girardi $2,850,000.00
Scott Brosius $2,650,000.00
Mike Stanton $1,916,667.00
Jeff Nelson $1,766,667.00
Tim Raines $1,300,000.00
Chad Curtis $1,250,000.00
Darren Holmes $1,066,667.00
Graeme Lloyd $875,000.00
Darryl Strawberry $875,000.00
Luis Sojo $800,000.00
Dale Sveum $800,000.00
Orlando Hernandez $750,000.00
Derek Jeter $750,000.00
Mariano Rivera $750,000.00
Willie Banks $342,500.00
Ramiro Mendoza $275,000.00
Jorge Posada $250,000.00
Joe Borowski $188,800.00
Homer Bush $178,900.00
Shane Spencer $170,000.00
Jay Tessmer $170,000.00


But since it was the Yankees, the haters were pissed cause they are anti. Look at what Jeter made then and take what he makes now, 20.6 mill. There was no way they would let him go to another team in '98 so they felt they needed to spend. The reason why this money thing is an issue is cause the ARod contract. I'm tellin you it is vertical to the Kevin Garnett contract, 6 years, 126 mill. These big contracts were signed and other guys who put up similiar numbers wanted around the same. Texas Rangers were guilty of the ARod deal. People can slight Arod for the money he makes, but if my kid gets the same offer then i'm buyin him a 10 pack of bic's in case one ran out of ink. Any of us, i'm sure, would sign the same deal and accept the criticism that comes with it. December of 2000 ARod signed the lucrative, 10 year 252 mill deal. Texas started that big market of contracts. Soon after that, Feb. '01, Jeter signs his(10yrs. for 189). Jeter took that template and then approached Cashman and said "look, I got 4 rings. show me the money".

But I do agree with you on the Yankees overspending. I was just makin a point to you that, while the overspending is a big issue, they do have their own players that they have scouted and drafted and who have played a major role in their success the last few years, specifically this year. Sheff goin down, Matsui goin down, Damon bein' injured, Pavano bein' a bust, was the best thing that happened to this team. It forced them into the farm and gamble for the first time in a long time and it paid off big time.
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it takes a nation of millions to hold us back

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#12004 - 10/02/06 02:58 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: JHAWX75]
JHAWX75 Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 01/13/06
Loc: 911's A Joke!
Time to warm up the hands......the playoffs are here.

First I would like to say I am glad the Yankees avoided the Twins in the first round. The pitching they have and the five game series would of been to their advantage. Good luck A's.

Detroit will be a handful to deal with. It will either be a situation where the big stage crumbles the young pitchers or the young pitchers shine on the big stage. I doubt Detroit wants to get in a "who can score the most runs" game, so pitching will have to be the life jacket that keeps them above water. The ocean runs deep in NY.
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it takes a nation of millions to hold us back

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#12005 - 10/04/06 09:23 AM Re: Yankees. [Re: JHAWX75]
JHAWX75 Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 01/13/06
Loc: 911's A Joke!
"Start spreadin' the news".....nobody is sweeter than Jeter

Offense: 5-5, 2 doubles 2 singles and a HR. Defense: Runners on the corners, 1 out, backhand double play to end the 3rd. Thats why this guy is MVP this year. It's been voted already but this is what he does year in and year out. It's his defense that Yankee fans love the most. Sure the hits are needed, who wouldnt want a 5-5 night, but it's the glove with the love that gets fans jacked up.

Bobby Abz had a remarkable debut driving in 4 rbi's. His double in the 3rd got the Yanks on the board. He wasnt done though. In the 7th, knocked in 2 more with a judy to right, gotta love the judy's. Giambi was clutch with his smash in the 5th.

2 words, CY WANG!

Santana will win it but this guy is surfacing out of nowhere. Game 1. Yankee stadium. Rookie. Get er' done. No problem boss. The kid is just ice when on the mound. Sure Detroit put some on the board but didnt faze Tai-Wang. All for 300 plus thousand. Now 19 million dollar Moose is on the bump. Unbelievable, 300 thousand starts, 19 mill follows. Only in NY!
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it takes a nation of millions to hold us back

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#12006 - 10/04/06 10:52 AM Re: Yankees. [Re: JHAWX75]
hail2oldku Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 08/07/03
Quote:

2 words, CY WANG!

Santana will win it but this guy is surfacing out of nowhere. Game 1. Yankee stadium. Rookie. Get er' done. No problem boss. The kid is just ice when on the mound. Sure Detroit put some on the board but didnt faze Tai-Wang. All for 300 plus thousand.




I don't know that I would consider a guy that had many major league teams offering his Japanese league team cash just to be able to buy his "rights" as coming out of nowhere. The guy is very good though, I'll give you that.
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Everywhere is walking distance, if you have enough time. - Steven Wright

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#12007 - 10/04/06 11:17 AM Re: Yankees. [Re: hail2oldku]
JHAWX75 Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 01/13/06
Loc: 911's A Joke!
To scouts, no, he hasnt surfaced out of nowhere.

To the baseball civilians like me, yes, he did.

If you followed this guy in Taiwan all the way up til now, then I tip my cap to you, you're one helluva player.

I knew he was in the farm but to say he was gonna step in and be our Ace, huh-uh, missed that prediction. He was called up cause of injuries, that is why I say he surfaced out of nowhere.
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it takes a nation of millions to hold us back

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#12008 - 10/04/06 11:54 AM Re: Yankees. [Re: JHAWX75]
hail2oldku Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 08/07/03
I'll give you that.

With the Unit and the Moose you wouldn't expect this guy to be the man, but he is. I'm just surprised that you didn't know more about him before the call up with all of the hoopla that is surrounding the Asian stars following Ichiro and Matsui to the states and the cash their Asian teams are commanding just to let the American teams negotiate with the players.

I can't recall the latest can't miss pitcher from the Japanese league, but his team is asking for sealed bids from Major League teams just for his rights. The thought is the bidding for his rights is going to be in the low 7 figures, then the "winner" is going to have to sign the kid.
_________________________
Everywhere is walking distance, if you have enough time. - Steven Wright

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#12009 - 10/04/06 04:26 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: hail2oldku]
JHAWX75 Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 01/13/06
Loc: 911's A Joke!
The Wangster did fly underneath my radar as far as talent went. Before triple A, I hadnt done much homework on the kid. But Wow! The Asian Persuasian is the real deal. Yanks shelled out 2 mill to get the kid back in 2000, dont know if that was part of the pay off deal though.
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it takes a nation of millions to hold us back

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#12010 - 10/05/06 02:25 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: JHAWX75]
martinkufan Offline
Debaser

Registered: 08/30/06
Loc: Too close for comfort
A Rod sure gets paid a lot of money to suck.
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Be strong in body, clean in mind, lofty in ideals. James Naismith

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#12011 - 10/05/06 02:34 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: JHAWX75]
spacey Offline
Pure Jayhawk

Registered: 09/29/05
Loc: North Mexico
Be thankfull for the Yankees. It gives people someone to root against when their team is not in the playoffs. Parity sucks. What fun is a superbowl when your team is not in the game? how do you choose whom to root for? How can you hate the Seahawks or Panthers?

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#12012 - 10/05/06 02:36 PM Re: Yankees. [Re: martinkufan]
JHAWX75 Offline
Lawrence Legend

Registered: 01/13/06
Loc: 911's A Joke!
Suck is such a shallow word. You must be a ARod or a Yankee hater. Maybe both. Or maybe your a Yankee fan and are fed up with ARod. Nevertheless, i'll drink to the paid alot of money verse. To me, in this case, "Suck" would mean he hasnt produced when needed for the Yankees.
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