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#1027369 - 11/24/09 02:12 PM The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued
DTayl913 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 11/12/08
Loc: Topeka, KS (The Golden City)
Let me preface this with the following: Mangino is as good as gone. I realize that. I'm not trying to argue that he should stay, because that's pointless. I DO, however, think that the whole situation is appalling, and is without a doubt a witch hunt. What I would like to take issue with is the ridiculous and weak arguments I keep seeing on this board from the Anti-Mangino camp.

1. "He needs to go because he's not representing the program the way a KU coach should"

First of all, says who? A few assorted players? Exactly. Remember, the only actual things we have to go on are some allegations. The only hard fact that can be drawn from anything is that Mangino is one of the following: "a rigid disciplinarian" to those who support him, or "a mean man" to those that don't. Remember, he has not been accused of any physical abuse or wrongdoing (finger pokes are not wrongdoing...sorry Arist). He's been accused of, at worst, verbal abuse. Which in the world of football coaching has a nebulous definition (this is illustrated through the differing opinions of players who have seen the same thing -- to some, it's "abusive," and to others, it's no big deal). So explain to me how alleged verbal abuse, the severity and legitimacy of which no one can agree upon, means Mangino is poorly representing the university.

2. "He needs to go because of his production on the field. He's mediocre at best!"

This one flabbergasts me. I'm not going to sit here and trumpet the Orange Bowl season as the end-all, be-all and cite it as the sole reason he deserves to stay. However, it factors in, and it's certainly important. But what's also equally important is the overall mentality of this football team since Mangino has been here. How many 67-3 losses have we seen? How many late game collapses against teams we should beat? Sure, there have been some, but those happen to everyone. Before Mangino, they were the RULE and not the EXCEPTION. We were a laughingstock, an automatic win. Now we put a product on the field that competes every week, and never quits.

Oh, and let's not forget the 3 bowls in 4 years, possibly 4 in 5 if we can salvage this season. I hear the Anti-Manginos already: "I'm not content just going to bowls, that doesn't mean that much!" Well, misplaced football elitists, what DID you expect then? Top 5 finishes in 3 years? Perennial runs at the national championship? Get real. When Mangino showed up, this program was bottom of the barrel. It had ZERO talent, ZERO toughness, a losing culture, and very little history. While we haven't torn up the Big 12 by any means, it's fair to say that NONE of those things are true about this program now. And let's not forget, it's only been 8 years. I don't care how good you are as a coach, you aren't turning a God-awful program into a perennial power in fewer than 10 years or so. It's that simple.

It's telling that NO COACH IN KU HISTORY has done the things Mangino has accomplished here, yet some are still content to rip on his production and foolishly believe that Lew will just snap his fingers and bring in the next Joe Paterno or Pete Carroll.

I'm not trying to claim that Mangino is the best coach around, or even the best that KU will ever have. None of that is the point. The point is that he should not be on the brink of firing. It's been repeated ad nauseum on this board and everywhere else, but it's blatantly fishy that Mangino's "horrible" Big 12 record was simply not a problem until these allegations surfaced. These boards weren't lighting up with daily posts about how Mangino is a bad coach and needs to go based on performance, even DURING this year's losing streak. But suddenly, the allegations come out and, wouldn't you know? Mangino's conference record suddenly becomes a beautifully convenient excuse! Perfect! Until this whole mess surfaced, a person posting that Mangino should be fired for performance would be a fringe minority. Now the lunatics are running the asylum. It's sickening.

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#1027370 - 11/24/09 02:13 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: DTayl913]
Anonymous
Unregistered

This hasn't been done before...certainly not 15 times over the last week, in 15 different threads. Groundbreaking stuff!

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#1027371 - 11/24/09 02:14 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: DTayl913]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

These boards weren't lighting up with daily posts about how Mangino is a bad coach and needs to go based on performance, even DURING this year's losing streak. But suddenly, the allegations come out and, wouldn't you know? Mangino's conference record suddenly becomes a beautifully convenient excuse! Perfect! Until this whole mess surfaced, a person posting that Mangino should be fired for performance would be a fringe minority.




This is not true.
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2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#1027372 - 11/24/09 02:16 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued *DELETED*
DTayl913 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 11/12/08
Loc: Topeka, KS (The Golden City)
Post deleted by DTayl913

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#1027373 - 11/24/09 02:17 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: DTayl913]
kumath Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 03/27/08
Loc: Lawrence, KS
I completely agree with the original post. I'm going to do the only thing I can do if they get rid of HCMM. My money will simply start going back to the Mathematics Department instead of the Athletics Department.
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#1027374 - 11/24/09 02:18 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: JFish26]
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

These boards weren't lighting up with daily posts about how Mangino is a bad coach and needs to go based on performance, even DURING this year's losing streak. But suddenly, the allegations come out and, wouldn't you know? Mangino's conference record suddenly becomes a beautifully convenient excuse! Perfect! Until this whole mess surfaced, a person posting that Mangino should be fired for performance would be a fringe minority.




This is not true.




Maybe not true, but anyone who thinks Mangino should be fired for performance WAS and IS a complete f*cking idiot. This was a disappointing season and it's fair to say Coach did not live up to our expectations over the last 6 games, but to suggest he should be FIRED after all he has done for this program over 8 years is just plain retarded.

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#1027375 - 11/24/09 02:19 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: JFish26]
DTayl913 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 11/12/08
Loc: Topeka, KS (The Golden City)
So, before Arist Wright, day in and day out, at any given moment, the entire first page of the football message boards were consumed with "Fire Mangino" threads? Interesting...

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#1027376 - 11/24/09 02:21 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: DTayl913]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

So, before Arist Wright, day in and day out, at any given moment, the entire first page of the football message boards were consumed with "Fire Mangino" threads? Interesting...




Consumed? No. But it was discussed.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#1027377 - 11/24/09 02:23 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: JFish26]
DTayl913 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 11/12/08
Loc: Topeka, KS (The Golden City)
I never said it wasn't. Every sports program in the world is going to have the weirdo "Fire our coach" contingency at the slightest sign of struggle. But my point, which was completely missed, was that it's now become the convenient rallying cry of ALL the Anti-Manginos, when before it was only "discussed."

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#1027378 - 11/24/09 02:25 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: DTayl913]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Ok, fine, but there was talk weeks and weeks ago. I can promise you that the continued pitiful play would have spawned plenty of Fire Mangino talk regardless of this investigation.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#1027379 - 11/24/09 02:37 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: JFish26]
Anonymous
Unregistered

Well, that just shows you what a moron football fanbase we have...if that's enough to get him fired, we're in big trouble.

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#1027380 - 11/24/09 02:39 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
Quote:

Well, that just shows you what a moron football fanbase we have...if that's enough to get him fired, we're in big trouble.




I was one of the morons. But I haven't liked Mangino...well...ever.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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#1027381 - 11/24/09 02:42 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: JFish26]
Anonymous
Unregistered

Ok, but we're talking about getting fired for performance here...at the time, we were 5 GAMES into a losing streak. It wasn't pretty and most of us feel we should have one 3 or 4 of those, but FIRING him? You look at a place like Michigan or Notre Dame or Nebraska a couple years ago...you can't be world-beaters all the time. Mangino has done a damn good considering the circumstances and it would take one HELL of a lot more than a losing streak to convince me he wasn't the man for the job.

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#1027382 - 11/24/09 03:09 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: JFish26]
DTayl913 Offline
Prairie Warrior

Registered: 11/12/08
Loc: Topeka, KS (The Golden City)
Fish, I'm curious...if you haven't EVER liked Mangino, could you please explain why? No references to the current mess, please...you said "ever." And in that case, who would you have rather seen hired over him?

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#1027383 - 11/24/09 03:19 PM Re: The Anti-Mangino Arguments, Catalogued [Re: DTayl913]
JFish26 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 03/17/05
Loc: KC, MO
The quarterback carousel of the pre-Todd times soured me right away, and I fear it would resume next season. I don't like the constant position (and even side-of-the-ball) shuffling. And the playcalling has been pretty dismal throughout. He's been calling shovel passes on third-and-long his entire tenure.

The unnecessary secrecy bothered me. And the borderline-fraudulent won/lost record. You just have to beat a big-time conference opponent at some point. Except for one season (in which we dodged the conference's best three teams), we've just been pitiful in conference.

It's not that hard to win 6 games when you schedule Directional Louisiana (and its variants) four times each year.

I just didn't see anything great in Mangino, and without Todd, Kerry, Dez, and Stuck...I wasn't feeling too good.
_________________________
2013-14 -- One for the other thumb.

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