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#1000894 - 11/04/09 01:13 PM We will go as far as the twins take us ***
DantheMan Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 11/13/08
Loc: Not enough TV sets
OK, it's just a pre-season theory, but hang with me.

Collins and Aldrich are great players, but we know we need higher level, more consistent contributions from the supporting cast to win the championship. Goodman, and some others, think the key to our season is the arrival of X as our third scorer.

I disagree. I think X will be a good player, and he can help us stretch opposing defenses, but I would argue that our season more tightly aligned with the performance of the twins. When KU plays the other elite teams in the country, the frontline is going to set the tone for the game.

KU's perimeter matches up pretty well with anyone. But when I look at Texas, MSU, UNC, and UK, I see a lot of beef inside. How our frontline fares against James, Pittman, Chapman, Roe, Morgan, Nix, Davis, Zeller, Wear Bros, Thompson, Patterson, Cousins, and Orton will set the tone for the game, decide who has more shots and possessions, and, ultimately, decide our fate.

The Morrises anchor Aldrich's help inside, and can do so many things. They give us muscle, inside/out scoring, ball handling, passing, experience and stability. It's easy to see that these things help a team win, but hidden to some is the fact that most of these things also directly affect Aldrich's ability to stay out of foul trouble. For example, without the twins, who would Self look to for inside scoring help? How often would Aldrich be around the ball, winded, just because Self felt like he couldn't take him out? How often will Aldrich be caught out of position, because of someone's mistake?

I think the twins must be what we think they are: improved, stronger versions of last year's duo. Robinson and Withey will help, but they will need time to grow, and they haven't been through an NCAA tournament yet. Neither has X.

Agree? Disagree?

Edit: Meant to include DeMarcus Cousins to list of frontcourt challenges, if we play UK.


Edited by DantheMan (11/04/09 03:11 PM)
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#1000895 - 11/04/09 01:17 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: DantheMan]
Z8RR8 Offline
Max Falkenstien

Registered: 05/10/04
Loc: Derby, Kansas
Somewhat agree.


Twins definitely need to have improved this off season for us to win a title. I think they showed alot last night because they looked more aggressive and stronger and not lost like they did sometimes last year.

Its going to be good because we have a bunch of guys who like contact and will dish it out and tire the defenses (Morris Twins, Robinson, Henry, Aldrich) they all like to get in there and mix it up.
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#1000896 - 11/04/09 01:23 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: DantheMan]
SashasVodka Offline
JohnBrownWithARifle

Registered: 05/01/08
Loc: KC
I don't think there is anyone who is quite as deep as us in the frontcourt. UNC has 3 deep and UK has 3 deep, but both of those teams have at least 2 frosh. UT is scary with Pittman and James.

But what we have is depth, and in college ball, fouls to give might be the most important asset to have in the frontcourt. With Cole's maturity and the TRob and Withey at 4 and 5. We will give alot of teams fits when it comes to foul trouble and forcing them to work for their buckets.

As for the twins in particular, they combined for 8 blocks + steals, 1 TO and 7 assists. Granted it's exhibition against FHSU, but we need to be more worried about replacing these guys next year than with them being the weak link.
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#1000897 - 11/04/09 01:25 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: Z8RR8]
HunterThompson Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 10/23/06
Loc: Woody Creek, CO
My take is that there is no "1" key. Could we have won without any 1 piece in 08? I don't think so. We needed every single body. RR was as important as BR who was as important as DA. SK coming off the bench was as important as DJ being a bruiser who was as important as SC coming in to provide a breather to MC....etc, etc.

I keep reading about how there is this "one key ingredient", but we should know by now that Coach Self produces TEAMS. There is no "1 key". Everybody has to play to their role.
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#1000898 - 11/04/09 01:28 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: HunterThompson]
5DecadeHawk Offline
Otto Schnellbacher

Registered: 11/22/07
If we will go as far as the twins take us, which posters are about to get thrown down the stairs?
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#1000899 - 11/04/09 02:19 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: HunterThompson]
theno1kufan Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/09/09
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Quote:

My take is that there is no "1" key. Could we have won without any 1 piece in 08? I don't think so. We needed every single body. RR was as important as BR who was as important as DA. SK coming off the bench was as important as DJ being a bruiser who was as important as SC coming in to provide a breather to MC....etc, etc.

I keep reading about how there is this "one key ingredient", but we should know by now that Coach Self produces TEAMS. There is no "1 key". Everybody has to play to their role.




Brady didn't do jack that year.

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#1000900 - 11/04/09 02:23 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: theno1kufan]
KanedaMGM Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 03/11/04
Could have been because of the redshirt maybe??

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#1000901 - 11/04/09 02:25 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: KanedaMGM]
theno1kufan Offline
Baby Jay

Registered: 04/09/09
Loc: Lawrence, KS
Quote:

Could have been because of the redshirt maybe??




lighten the [censored] up

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#1000902 - 11/04/09 02:26 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: 5DecadeHawk]
stumptownhawk Offline
Junior Jayhawk

Registered: 11/12/07
Loc: oregon
We need the twins to spread the floor.

With them hitting the outside shot Cole gets to own the paint!

Coaches have got to be worried about leaving the paint on our high low rotation.

Doubling down with a guard is not gonna stop CA.

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#1000903 - 11/04/09 02:52 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: stumptownhawk]
KMan_24 Offline
US Marshal, Kansas Territory

Registered: 05/26/05
I think Sherron not having to play 37 minutes a game is definitely a key above all others. If teams have to honor the ability of other guards to score, it will make it so much easier for him. In 07-08, no one played more than 30 mpg.

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#1000904 - 11/04/09 03:01 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: KMan_24]
Hawklin Offline
Justin Ray Giddens

Registered: 03/27/05
Teams have to match up honestly at every position.


Seriously, what do you do for strategy if you are an opposing coach? Last year they doubled up on Cole, so Coach moved the ball through Marcus. You just cant double Cole anymore without getting smoked from all over.
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#1000905 - 11/04/09 03:15 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: Hawklin]
5DecadeHawk Offline
Otto Schnellbacher

Registered: 11/22/07
Quote:

Teams have to match up honestly at every position.


Seriously, what do you do for strategy if you are an opposing coach? Last year they doubled up on Cole, so Coach moved the ball through Marcus. You just cant double Cole anymore without getting smoked from all over.




I think the key for an opposing coach trying to think through matchups vs Kansas will be to attempt to force Self to matchup with the opponent.

Izzo probably did this the best last year. Goran Suton was a pain in the butt for Aldrich to try to guard. He was big and strong, but could still hit the outside jumper. None of our other bigs had the strength to match him inside.

Craig Brackens was another big that could hit from the outside and we all saw how he lit us up.

Until Xavier starts playing better defense, KU will still be vulnerable to a tall guard or small forward that can hit from the outside.

Once another team can force Bill Self to adjust to what they are doing, they BEGIN to have a prayer... but KU has a lot more weapons, both on offense and defense this year to adjust.

We have tools to handle these situations much better this year, but not all of those tools are sharpened to a razors edge yet.
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#1000906 - 11/04/09 04:17 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: Hawklin]
DantheMan Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 11/13/08
Loc: Not enough TV sets
Sasha: UNC goes six deep on the frontline (not three): Henson, Davis, Zeller, Wear Brothers, Thompson. We can match them on numbers, but my assertion is that we need the improved twins to match UNC's ability.

To everyone else: What I would say to the "there is no one key" rebuttal is that this is only true as long as we play inferior competition. The twins don't have to play well against FHSU, or maybe even OSU or Michigan. There are others that would likely pick them up.

But when we play against similar athletes, or intense defensive pressure, we will need the experience, scoring and flow that only the improved twins can provide. If they don't show up in these games, I'm saying we lose, and there are no other players on this roster that I can say would change this.

Do you think Robinson or Withey will pick up the slack in such a game, if the twins aren't as good as we hope, or have a bad game against such competition? Will X? Are you willing to rely on "the open man", like the 2008 team did? That team had veterans at every position, and, not only could they hit the open shot, but they could create their own.

The bottom line, to me, is that Aldrich needs help inside, if this team is going to get where they want. We have guards out the wazoo, which is good, but our toughest competition will be laiden with deep and/or physical frontlines. The logical places to look right now for help are the twins.

It's a working theory, but I'm 70% buying it right now. If Robinson turns into an all-Conference type player, X an All-American, or Aldrich POY, I'll dump the theory.
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#1000907 - 11/04/09 04:31 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: DantheMan]
5DecadeHawk Offline
Otto Schnellbacher

Registered: 11/22/07
Quote:

The bottom line, to me, is that Aldrich needs help inside, if this team is going to get where they want. We have guards out the wazoo, which is good, but our toughest competition will be laiden with deep and/or physical frontlines. The logical places to look right now for help are the twins.





The only team in the country I see competing with Kansas in having as deep and as physical front line would be Texas.


I challenge you to name another team that comes close.
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#1000908 - 11/04/09 05:56 PM Re: We will go as far as the twins take us [Re: 5DecadeHawk]
DantheMan Offline
Crimson & Blue Blood

Registered: 11/13/08
Loc: Not enough TV sets
Quote:


The only team in the country I see competing with Kansas in having as deep and as physical front line would be Texas.


I challenge you to name another team that comes close.




IMO, deep and physical is not relevant. I'll put it this way: substitute the Morrises for two more Robinsons. We're just as deep and physical, but we're not the same team.

The Morrises give KU more than depth and physicality. The whole offense flows better when one or both are in the game, and I think this will be magnified against pressure defense.

I'll try to answer the question, though. Texas is deep and physical. Michigan State is deep and physical throughout their lineup. That game would be a war. UNC is deep, talented, and long, but not physical. UK is deep and talented, and pretty physical, unless Calipari's system screws that up. There will be other teams that will try to muddy up the game against us, even though they aren't deep or talented.
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