Yankees.

Posted by: JHAWX75

Yankees. - 06/15/06 10:58 AM

What a remarkable catch by 1b Andy Phillips. Playing Cleveland in New York, Phillips made a overthecape, leaping snag in the stands on the first base side. What a way to end the game.

And dont throw at a Yankee again when Randy Johnson is hurlin'. Randy busted an Indian in the "Thornton MELON" after Posada got one on the wrist earlier in the game. Got tossed, but thats baseball.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/19/06 08:51 AM

Yanks are are on a roll and Yankee haters of all shapes and sizes are quietly pullin their hair out. They wanted nothing more than to see the pinstripe wearin, 26 ring havin'team to be out of the race and 15 games back with all injuries they have had. Well, they aint. And if not for the pathetic Royals and their collapse the other night ago Yanks would be in first. 8 straight division titles. Not to mention the toughest division through all that. Who would of thought, an outfield that started the season Matsui,Sheff and Damon now is rollin with Guill. Melky. Crosby. Well, me. I would of thought. These are not your grandfathers Yankees kids. Even with Arod struggling Yanks are STILL the team to beat every year, no matter who was WS champ.
Posted by: chiknbut

Re: Yankees. - 07/19/06 09:50 AM


True. The Yankees always have to be conisdered the team to beat in baseball. The biggest payroll demands that.

I hate to admit it, but when they swept the White Sox this week there was no luck involved. They just played great baseball. Still a long season.

Don't count out the AL Central. Nice little battle going on right now between the White Sox and Tigers. And the Twins are playing pretty good baseball right now. Stay tuned. A lot of baseball to be played.

That being said, there are two teams I always cheer against and the Yankees are at the top of the list. How can you pull for a team that's always on top?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/19/06 11:02 AM

There is still about 70 plus games to play out and the AL East is gonna be tough to win. Detroit will be removed from 1st by the first of next week. Detroit will fade into a wild card race and eventually miss out on the playoffs. White Sox win the Central. Yanks and Red Sox get in. Not to sure on the West. Bottom line is can the Yanks keep this going into August and September? What happens when Sheff, Matsui and Cano make it back? Will Damon be healthy? Can ARod shake the mental slump?
Posted by: chiknbut

Re: Yankees. - 07/19/06 11:50 AM


I'm not convinced the Tigers are going to fade. It's hard to call what they did in the first half a "fluke." Right now it looks like the Yankees are battling for the Wild Card. Like I said before, it wouldn't break my heart if they missed the playoffs again.

It seems the only team the Tigers can't beat consistently are the White Sox.
Posted by: KUColBond

Re: Yankees. - 07/19/06 02:08 PM

The royals did something similar a few years ago and totally lost it after the all-star break.

However, I don't see that happening to Detroit. I don't see them winning the division, but I bet they'll be in the playoffs.
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 07/19/06 02:58 PM

The Royals did that for one month a couple of years back and were barely holding on at the break. They have had one winning month in 10 years.
Posted by: stevemize

Re: Yankees. - 07/19/06 04:01 PM

In 2003 the Royals were in the race for the Central until the final week or two of the season. They finished the season above .500. I'm fairly certain that they had a winning month or two in that season. I would gladly withdraw my statement if proven wrong.
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 07/19/06 05:11 PM

Quote:

In 2003 the Royals were in the race for the Central until the final week or two of the season. They finished the season above .500. I'm fairly certain that they had a winning month or two in that season. I would gladly withdraw my statement if proven wrong.




My apologies. The Royals had three winning months in 2003 - April 17-7, June 15-12, July 15-11. The other three months of that season they were below .500. They finished the season 4 games over for the year, not exactly lighting the world on fire but for a Royals fan it's exciting. The Royals dropped out of first place on August 20th of that season and were in third place by the end of August. By mid-September they were eliminated by the Twins who beat them by 9 games in the standings. The only race they were in at the end of the season was to see if they could sneak past chikn's White Sox into second place and they failed at that dropping three of their last four games.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/20/06 04:17 PM

Who are you refering to when you say "it wouldnt break your heart if they missed the playoffs again"?
Posted by: chiknbut

Re: Yankees. - 07/20/06 09:11 PM


That would be the Yankees. To me it's just a more interesting playoffs without them.

But hey, what do I know. I'm a White Sox fan. And they're 1-5 since the all-star break.
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 07/21/06 09:02 AM

No retraction yet stevie?

Yes you were correct that they had more than one winning month in '03, but it was far from the glorious run that Royals fans would like to remember it being.

The Tiger's on the other hand appear to be maintaining their pace. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Tiger's fan (at least not since Sparky Anderson retired), but there is no comparison between this team and the '03 Royals. These Tigers have the best record in baseball and the Sox are keeping it close by playing the second/third best in baseball (until recently anyway). The '03 Royals were taking advantage of a bad division when they jumped to a huge lead and held on as long as they could.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/21/06 11:33 AM

I asked that cause you said "again" when referring to you not wanting the Yanks to make the playoffs. They've won 8 straight division titles and havent missed the playoffs since '95.

But, as much as I hate to say it, the team that is the scariest has to be Boston. Will be very difficult to defeat them in a 7 game series.

White Sox also. Good pitching, great defense and a ton of power. Wouldnt suprise me to see both in the ALCS.
Posted by: stevemize

Re: Yankees. - 07/22/06 08:14 PM

Quote:

No retraction yet stevie?

Yes you were correct that they had more than one winning month in '03, but it was far from the glorious run that Royals fans would like to remember it being.

The Tiger's on the other hand appear to be maintaining their pace. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Tiger's fan (at least not since Sparky Anderson retired), but there is no comparison between this team and the '03 Royals. These Tigers have the best record in baseball and the Sox are keeping it close by playing the second/third best in baseball (until recently anyway). The '03 Royals were taking advantage of a bad division when they jumped to a huge lead and held on as long as they could.




OK, perhaps I overexaggerated how far they went before being eliminated. It seemed like the last couple of weeks from memory. But they did not finish 9 games out, it was 7.

2003 American League Previous Year / Next Year
East Division
Team W L WL% GB
NewYorkY NYY 101 61 .623 --
BostonRS BOS 95 67 .586 6.0
Toronto TOR 86 76 .531 15.0
Bltmore BAL 71 91 .438 30.0
TampaBay TBD 63 99 .389 38.0
Central Division
Team W L WL% GB
Minnesta MIN 90 72 .556 --
ChicagoW CHW 86 76 .531 4.0
KansasCy KCR 83 79 .512 7.0
Clvlnd CLE 68 94 .420 22.0
Detroit DET 43 119 .265 47.0
West Division
Team W L WL% GB
Oakland OAK 96 66 .593 --
Seattle SEA 93 69 .574 3.0
Anaheim ANA 77 85 .475 19.0
Texas TEX 71 91 .438 25.
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 08:13 AM

Still no comparison to the Tigers who own baseball's best record to date v. the Royals who shot out of the gate and struggled the rest of the way.

Who knows, maybe Moore will be able to resurrect the decade of dominance from the mid-70's to the mid-80's and at the same time we'll see K-State football return to their place in the pecking order at the same time. The rise and fall did occur at approximately the same times.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 08:50 AM

Come on Yanks. Droppin two of three to Toronto is unnacceptable. Is Arod bein paid off by Theo and the Sox?
The Curse of ARod? Doubt it, but does strike up an argument, is ARod worth keeping or can his shoes be filled in the farm?
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 08:55 AM

That's what we like to hear. Dissin' on the All-Stars. Keep up the bad mouthing and get deeper into his head since so much of the game is mental anyway. Start on Jeter next would you.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 09:38 AM

Not bashing ARod at all, just repeating whats been said for 2 years now. It's happened to everyone of them, Reggie,Randy, even Jeter 2 years ago when he was hitting like .186 2 weeks before the All Star break. Even though Jeter got his share of boos they didnt last long cause of the 4 rings that accompany him everyday. Thats one of the penalties on becoming a Yankee, when your on they love you when your not they 'll let you know. Trust me, if Arod isnt making 25 mill a year you wouldnt hear all these boos(when someone like melky cabrera slumps, fans there dont even bother with the boos).

3 errors in a game. 4 k's saturday. batting .185 at home with r.i.s.p. And, oh by the way, no rings. Until ARod wins a ring with the Yanks, he will never earn his stripes.
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 10:16 AM

He's just one out of 24 out there.

I understand the emotions and when you're the high dollar guy on the highest paid roster in baseball you're gonna get the lions share when not performing. I'm just saying the more they jeer, the more he'll press and the worse it will become. That will simply bring smiles to the faces of Sawks fans everywhere as one of the cogs on the machine continues to slip.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 11:03 AM

Totally agree. Try convincing 56 thousand yankee fans though. When Jeter makes an error Yankee fans "say get'em next time". When ARod makes an error they say "we'll get you next time we see you".

Had it not been for the Flop Heard 'Round the World in 2004, ARod would have his ring and the boos would be softened to sighs. But, then again, if not for Red Sox pitching in '86 against the Mets the Red Sox would of won their's that year, so who cares.

No rings, no glory!
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 11:31 AM

I hear ya on the rings.

Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino - why? - the ring.

KU underachieves in BB every year since '88 - why - no ring.

Conference, division, league championships mean nothing. It's the ring that's the thing.

Stupidest argument ever imo. The proof is the fan who argues one way (KU(insert school/team) is successful look at the final fours(playoff victories), league/division championships, etc), but team that fan doesn't like has those things (Cards, Yankees, Eagles, Mavs, etc) and they are chokers or suck because they don't have the ring.
Posted by: stevemize

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 11:37 AM

Yeah, and people say the Royals suck because we don't have a ring since 1985. Well, I guess we haven't even been to the playoffs since 1985. Well, I guess we have lost 100 plus games more often than not in the last 7 years. Okay, I amit it, the Royals do suck.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 01:08 PM

3-1 games lead for the Cards in '85. Then Denkinger saved the day. What a blown call that was. Then came game 7 and the blowout. What about Darrell Motley goin deep. Classic.
Posted by: hasbeen

Re: Yankees. - 07/24/06 11:14 PM

Don't you like the Lakers in basketball?

Hmmm. Lakers in basketball, Yanks in baseball. Weird.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/25/06 09:16 AM

No Laker fan. Hornets fan.

However I was rooting for the Lakers to do good in the playoffs since the Hornets missed out.


RJ pitched a heck of a game last night. Jeter was his usual .350 self. I'm diggin Melky more and more every game. And Mr. Rodriguez stepped his game up a notch. I understand its his contract that allows the boos, but if you took ARod for a player,and a player only, then you would see that EVERY HOFer had slumps like this. Who wouldnt want to hit .340, bash 45 and knock in 120 every year for 12 years. Trust me, ARod will turn it up in August so stay ready.

.298....39hr.....115.......these are what ARods numbers will look like at the end of the season. These are All Star numbers for any other player but considered an "off year" for ARod.

But in the end, it's all about the ring. ARod could hit .401. Hit 74 hr's and knock in 191 rbi and still get boo'd if no ring.
Posted by: stevemize

Re: Yankees. - 07/25/06 09:46 AM

Quote:

3-1 games lead for the Cards in '85. Then Denkinger saved the day. What a blown call that was. Then came game 7 and the blowout. What about Darrell Motley goin deep. Classic.




I still have my blue plastic World Series cup. I says "World Champions 1985" and has the scores of all of the games. I could be a part of the Kansas City curse that has kept us out of the playoffs since 1985, but I won't go into it on this post.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/27/06 04:03 PM

Yanks are on a roll. After last nights comeback i'm jacked up. While names like Sheff, Matsui and Cano are getting stitched up, guys named Phillips,Melky,Guill and Green are keeping 'em glued together. Bring in the thundersticks of ARod and Giambi alongside smallball players like Damon,Jeter and Bernie and I wouldnt want to be pitchin' against this core of players. ARods jack was deeper than Atlantis and Giambi's landed just feet away where Neil Armstrong made a big step for mankind. Then, Enter Sandman.

Game Over
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 07/27/06 06:46 PM

I HATE THE YANKS> I hope they miss the playoffs and spend the rest of year wondering why money couldn't buy it all.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 08:36 AM

Hate is one of the four devils, so is envy and jealousy. Do you possess those two also towards the Yanks?
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 08:55 AM

Most people usually do when it comes to the Yankees 75!!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 10:36 AM

Wondering.........How does a team accumulate hate from fans? Why do people hate the Yankees,Lakers,Duke and the Cowboys. Those are the teams that are the most hated in their respective sport by most fans. It just amazes me the reasons why fans hate certain teams. I'll tell you one thing though, hate him or not, owners are getting more and more like Steinbrenner every year in the sense that you have to give top dollar to a proven prospect. People might hate Steinny for whatever reasons but nowadays you have to open your wallet to keep your team intact. Look at the Mets. They opened the wallet and are spending big and its got them in the lead in their division. Same with the White Sox and the Red Sox. Houston paid Clemens to come back. Think of the Royals right now if they had JD,JD and CB 10 years into their careers? Would they be better? Bottom line is, find the guy you want to turn your fragile franchise into a foundation and pay him. When word is leaked that the team that drafted you does not spend money, then that kid will look elsewhere when deciding on his future.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 10:48 AM

I also hate the Yankees, but their the only professional team I feel that way about. It's as much MLB's fault as anybody, but the lack of a salary cap is the biggest reason. Other owners are following suit and spending more, but Steinbrenner set the market so they have to pay more to compete. It's created a situation where about 6 teams are on the same playing field, and everybody else has to try and outsmart everybody.

I have no problem with the Lakers or Cowboys because they have the same financial rules as every other team in their league, so everybody's got a shot.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 11:03 AM

What era did you hate? The Ruth,Dimaggio,Mantle Gehrig times or the Steinbrenner times? What was the reason for hating the Yankees in the 20's thru the 60's compared with hating them now? I think it's more about hating Steinbreener himself instead of the franchise.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 11:30 AM

I'm 25 so there's no reason for me to hate old Yankee teams. Maybe it is a hatred of Steinbrenner, but he's the face of the franchise and the main reason for the financial disparity between teams so I'll go ahead and hate both of them. And for the record I have no jealousy or envy towards the Yankees or Steinbrenner, I'm just someone that used to love watching the game of baseball and hate the effect they've had on the game.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 11:53 AM

Slightly, I can agree on the last part. Steinny has changed it some but I would direct you to the root of the problem back to Flood vs. Kuhn in 1970. That opened doors for guys today to be able to make all that jack.

I'm 24 and if your a baseball fan you atleast have heard of the yankees of the 20's thru 60's and what they meant to baseball. Nobody hated the Yankees til George took over and that was after the Flood debacle which opened doors to all players and free-agency.

I would say look at all rosters at this moment and see how many guys are still with the team that drafted them. Players move from team to team every year, but when the Yankees sign a free agent then all hell breaks loose and fans flood the lines on how evil they are, whereas a team like the Royals could sign the same player and be considered historic.

In the end it's the rings. Paople see how many the Yankees have and figure they dont need anymore so any transaction they do in the season will be considered "cheatin with money". I mean come on, Melky,Guill,Green,Phillips,Cairo and Wang, these are not the players being talked about during spring training yet these are the players holding this together. But no one will acknowledge that. Not for the poor Yankees.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 12:14 PM

I'll acknowledge the fact that they're getting lucky as hell right now. Those players you named are guys any team could've gotten and they are holding the team together, but I wouldn't count on it lasting. Let's face it, there's a reason they were available.

I'll disagree with you about free agency, because every other pro league has it, yet there remains competitive balance. I do have a little hope that the luxury tax sharing will help out the situation, but without anything that resembles a salary cap I don't have much. The rings mean nothing to me... I root for a team that hasn't had anything good happen since Bo Jackson and George Brett walked away, but I know that if we ever get 1 (that I can actually remember), it'll be that much sweeter because of all the bad times we've had to suffer through.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 02:09 PM

Lucky as hell? If it were the Royals you would be saying "Man, they are grinding it out." This is Joe Torre's best year of "coaching" and no one can own up to it and say it. But since its the Yankees then its "luck". Look, i'm a Saints fan in football so I know ALL about struggle and stayin the course with the team you root for. I'm also a Hornets fan in the NBA and know it quite well there also. I cant stand the Red Sox but can own up to the fact that they have a more superior team on paper than the Yankees, pitching and hitting. I think David Ortiz is the most dangerous hitter than Griffey JR. in his prime. Just because I hate a team doesnt make me lose sight of common sense. Like I said, if it were any other team people would say they are "grinders" and "how can they be doing this, this is epic" and stroke the coach off his rocker.

8 straight division titles in the toughest division in baseball. 4 world series rings since 1996. I can see where people would hate the Yankees. Thats why you dont get a traffic of fans hating on the Red Sox, cause they dont win consistantly. Their payroll is about 130 million and look at their roster, how many diferent players have they plucked from diferent teams? What one player is there that started out with them besides rookies and 2nd year players?

Money creates hatred. Winning creates hatred.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 03:36 PM

If I'm an average gambler and went to Vegas and won big money at the craps table, does that mean I'm all of a sudden a great gambler? No... I'm the exact same as before, I just got lucky, and if I stay at the table and keep shooting, my luck will eventually run out.

Same thing with the Yankees this year. Torre has done a great job with the team, I'll be the first to admit that. But at the end of the day they're a lot of average ball players that'll come back to reality. No way they make the playoffs this year, unless they can grab Soriano, or maybe Abreu.

The six guys on this list are the reason that no one says "they're grinding it out" and they're probably the most hated on.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/specials/fortunate50/index.html
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 03:53 PM

Dont compare shooting dice or saying "hit me" to hitting 95 mph fastballs and making plays in the field. Trust me, you would have better luck if the dealer dealt you a ace to match your queen than getting a base hit against Papplebon in the bottom of the ninth. The #1 most dificult things to do in sports is hitting a baseball not drawin a Q on the flop. Drawin an ace for a blackjack is luck. Fillin in for Sheff,Damon or Matsui and being consistant is on another level. Bad example. And I never said they were great players NOR did I say they will carry this team. I said they are keeping this team together. And they are. Your talking about losing about 50 plus hr's to the day since Shef,Mats and Cano have been gone. Probably around a .300 avg. combined and around 120 rbi's also that the Yankees have missed out on. Then, the shallowminded baseball fan rebuttals with "luck" or "will come back to reality".
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 04:28 PM

Cairo's hitting .237, Phillips is hitting .245, Guiel is at .221, Green's going for .169... it is very clear to me that they're not caring this team, and keeping them together might be a stretch. Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi, Mussina, and Rivera would be the main reasons, and I don't think they've got enough help to make it to the playoffs. That's just my opinion, but I've been wrong before... I think it was back in 98'.

I've officially reached my limit for the year in talking about the Yanks, we'll see who was right come playoff time. Why didn't you join the KU fantasy baseball league 75?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 05:14 PM

Right on tulsa! And I do follow the Royals and hope that their back on the map soon, I just get to ramblin' when I think about who they had at one time and where they are now.

Didnt know about the baseball fantasy. Would like someone to get a college basketball fantasy if possible. I posted that a few months ago on the bball board and crooner was gonna look into it. That would be major if we could get a college one started.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 07/28/06 05:33 PM

Fantasy college basketball would be the ultimate... but it's going to be tough to get together. One of us would have to set up the web site and run it for free or the NCAA will probably track us down. I wish I knew the rules a little better.... like NCAA Football can replicate college atheletes and use their numbers, just can't use the names. I wonder if we could get away with something like that? I've obviously got a ton of down time at my job and that would be awesome to set something like that up and maybe make a little dough.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 07/31/06 01:31 PM

Fit another all star up for his stripes. Bobby Abreau has just inked his name into history and has added his lumbar for support as the Yankees migrate towards another WS title. I think it was good money spent, but I was hoping CJ Henry would of stayed a Yankee, helluva SS and could've been a CF in the future.But, in the end, Yankees needed to fill an instant position,RF,for the final 2 months of the season. Sheff is out til the 1st of September at the soonest ans they needed instant offense and defense.

The Yanks do give up alot of prospects when signing these lumbarjacks like BA and usually its 4-5 prospects at a time. As long as it adds number 27 who cares. Live for the moment Steinny and let us spend your money.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 08/02/06 08:38 AM

The debut for Abreu.

0-3 with a walk. Scored a run on a bases loaded double by Bernie Williams. Forget Abreu for a second, what about Bernie Baseball. The man is 176 years old and didnt look like he would be coming back for another season. But the viejo from Puerto Rico keeps doing things only true yankees do, getting clutch hits.

Back to Abreu........

His presence in the lineup alone is major. BA makes pitchers exhaust alot of pitches, sometimes 9-10 pitches per at bat. Even if Abreu k's or gets out that's still only one out. Then the pitcher has to stare down a Giambi,ARod or Posada after workin like hell against BA the previous at bat.

Ironic that the 1st game Abreu plays catapults the Yanks back into 1st place, somewhere they havent been since around the middle of June.

The mystique of the '27 Yankees seems to be creeping back. Murderers Row has resurrected.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 08/04/06 09:25 AM

Well Well Well

Another win for the Bronx but a new day as division leaders.

Thats right, the boys of October are perched up where they routinly are and have a birds eye view of the rest of the league. Nobody wants beef right now. Not with the Yanks. Any manager that stares at the respective date when their ballclub has to walk on the same grass as the Bombers will relive the enviroment from One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. Insane In The Membrane.
Posted by: chiknbut

Re: Yankees. - 08/09/06 10:00 AM


I'm ashamed to report that I went to bed right after the Yankees jumped toa 5-4 lead in the eighth last night over the White Sox.

Imagine what I missed? Only Konerko going deep on Rivera (woo-hooo) in the ninth to tie it and then Dye singling home the winning run in the 11th.

Sorry. While I respect the fact that the Yankees will do anything to win, I still cheer against two teams in baseball: Yankees and Cardinals.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 08/09/06 10:20 AM

3 words: Paul FRIGGIN Konerko.

Sandman couldnt exit the Whiteys last night. No outs,2-2 count and Ma puts a cutter right over the plate. I'm screamin before the pitch to keep everything inside, anything out over the plate is just plain disasterous.

Good baseball though. Back and forth the whole game. 2 powerhouses that could be a possible 1st round matchup.

Still, regardless of the loss, Yanks will grind back in and dust of the loss. With the Red Sux bowin' down to the Roy-alzw/cheese last night the Yanks hold a 2 game lead in the mighty AL East. No sweat, buisness as usual in the Bronx.
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 08/09/06 12:22 PM

Quote:

Hate is one of the four devils, so is envy and jealousy. Do you possess those two also towards the Yanks?




I think of the Yankees as a team that must win every year or they are a loser. The money they spend should produce nothing less than a world chamionship. To see a team which spends much less but more wisely win it all is a good thing to see. Love your Yankees and i'll love to hate them.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 08/18/06 04:24 PM

Back on the grind..........

I know how the Yanks get madd love here on this board so i'll post an update. Another day another win, 12-4 thrashing of the Red Sox in game 1 of a doubleheader. A hitting clinic is what the Yanks put on this afternoon. While Johnny D. was pushin' the knife deeper, Jeter,Abreu and Giambi were sockin'em in the melon with the lumbar. Get the broom out, 5 game sweep!
Posted by: StatHawk

Re: Yankees. - 08/18/06 04:25 PM

i am with the spanks on this one, i hate the BoSox. Go for the 5 game sweep!
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 08/18/06 04:29 PM

That was a heck of a game. After yesterday's debacle against the Orioles we needed to save our bullpen and dent up the BoSox pen. And that's just what we did!
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 08/18/06 04:44 PM

Quote:

That was a heck of a game. After yesterday's debacle against the Orioles we needed to save our bullpen and dent up the BoSox pen. And that's just what we did!


A-Rod? Is that you? What the hell you doing posting on here in between games of a day-nighter?
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 08/18/06 04:57 PM

Oh dang it, you caught me!!
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 08/18/06 07:05 PM

What odds you giving on a sweep and how much are you willing to go?
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 08/18/06 07:59 PM

Are you talking about sweeping the 5 games or the doubleheader? Cuz the doubleheader's chances look pretty good right now as long as the pitching stays solid.
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 08/19/06 03:28 PM

Quote:

Oh dang it, you caught me!!


Well I figured you must be someone important on the team the way you were referring to we needed this and we had to do that.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 08/19/06 03:38 PM

You're telling me you have never done that? Not even for the Jayhawks?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 08/19/06 08:25 PM

What a brutal beating handed out today. How the bluehell do you walk 9 batters? Beckett is mud.

Damon is just punishing his former employer and his teammates are following lead.

Abreu is proving to be a wise move.

Cano is putting on a brutal beating clinic.



ARod is coming through with base knocks.

Jeter is just bein Jeter, clutch(see bases loaded double last night)



Size up the Rings!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 08/21/06 10:12 AM

Even when Red Sux play good ball they still come out the bridesmaid.

The never say die, it aint over til its over Yankees pulled out a nail-biter. Even with PappelSmear gettin out of a bases loaded jam in the 8th, he couldnt escape the
Evil Empire in the 9th. Mr. Clutch's 2 out judy in the top of the 9th tied the game and Giambi's solo shot in the 10th proved to be the game winner. Sandman shut'em down in the 9th after LOSTon loaded the bases with 1 out. A couple of weak dribblers later and Yanks escaped.

Just a beautiful performance put on by a team that is way to much for ANY ballclub to handle. Pick your poison: Damon,Jeter,Abreu,ARod,Giambi,Cano,Cabrera,Posada or Bernie. With Sheff and Matsui on the fence watin' to climb over , just go'head and size up the rings.
Posted by: billbordon

Re: Yankees. - 08/21/06 12:15 PM

Great posistion players and hitters are not the key to winning come playoff time. Pitching is the key. The Redsux pitching is lacking. As was the case this past weekend. Also - The Yanks are 3-6 vs Oakland this year. Yes, of course I would pick the Yanks to win the W.S. but I would have done the same the past 4 years. Nothing is for sure.
Posted by: StatHawk

Re: Yankees. - 08/21/06 04:08 PM

Quote:

i am with the spanks on this one, i hate the BoSox. Go for the 5 game sweep!




Nice call, StatHawk!!!!!
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 08/21/06 04:53 PM

Dang I should have taken that bet!!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 08/21/06 05:34 PM

Instead of having the World Baseball Classic just have the Yankees play the "other" players in an all star game.

Here's a new curse for the Sux, the curse of Johnny Damon.

Since George Herman's curse got bucked then Johnny's will start a new one.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 08/30/06 03:36 PM

You think just anyone can go and see Ortiz laid up in the 'Spital? If so, I want to get on the next flight to Boston and tell him how he just simply ripped my heart(no pun intended) out and stomped on it with his Nike's back in 2004.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 02:50 PM

We all feel very sorry for you Yankee fans, you must go through hell.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 03:09 PM

Appreciate the concern. But dont. Seriously. Us toughtimesdonlastforlong Yankee fans always find a way to get through the bad times. Like wiping the tears away and signing another all-star. Damn I feel better already.

Ortiz thinks his heart is irregular? Try goin' into the 9th with Proctor on the bump for the save.
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 03:19 PM

Quote:

Appreciate the concern. But dont. Seriously. Us toughtimesdonlastforlong Yankee fans always find a way to get through the bad times. Like wiping the tears away and signing another all-star. Damn I feel better already.

Ortiz thinks his heart is irregular? Try goin' into the 9th with Proctor on the bump for the save.





The Yankees will fold in October to a lesser underpaid team and then have all winter to wonder how they failed once again after spending so much money.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 03:26 PM

I'm just messin' with you
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 03:57 PM

tulsa- I sensed the sarcasm. You missed mine though.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 04:08 PM

The Yankees will fold in October to a lesser underpaid team and then have all winter to wonder how they failed once again after spending so much money.

____________________________________________________________
you went 2-3 at the plate. not bad.

True, all other teams are "lesser" than the Yanks. And true, all other teams are "underpaid" to.

False though when discussing October. How many haterz were hoping the Tigers would of got the best of the Yanks? Next question. How many haterz wanted to see the Yanks crumble to the Red Sox and accept a petty wild card invite? Next question. Who didnt want the Yanks to win the AL East for the 9th consecutive year? Well, it aint happenin'. Not on my watch. The Yankees built the month of October.

The only team I see to be a threat is the Twins cause of their pitching. We'll see tonight.
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 06:43 PM

Quote:

The Yankees will fold in October to a lesser underpaid team and then have all winter to wonder how they failed once again after spending so much money.

____________________________________________________________
you went 2-3 at the plate. not bad.

True, all other teams are "lesser" than the Yanks. And true, all other teams are "underpaid" to.

False though when discussing October. How many haterz were hoping the Tigers would of got the best of the Yanks? Next question. How many haterz wanted to see the Yanks crumble to the Red Sox and accept a petty wild card invite? Next question. Who didnt want the Yanks to win the AL East for the 9th consecutive year? Well, it aint happenin'. Not on my watch. The Yankees built the month of October.

The only team I see to be a threat is the Twins cause of their pitching. We'll see tonight.




Anything less than a world championship is a failure for the Yanks. To spend that much money and not be able to buy a championship has to be a total failure.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 08:27 PM

Agreed with that. But their titles came when it was home-grown with sprinkles of vets. After the Arizona defeat is when Steinny went into panic mode and hit the button, followed with the Angels defeat in the ALDS of 2002. Its gone south for the Yanks as far as expectations the last 5 years but never will complain that Steinny doesnt give us every the best chance every year. Look at other teams and you will find their roster is filled with other teams original draft picks, teams are filled with other teams throwbacks they didnt want. Lidle is coming through, should they be penalized for that pick-up? Craig Wilson has filled a role coming over from Pittsburgh. Vets like Jeter and Williams have been staples. Posada is always a rock. Cabrera is a blessing. Cano is homegrown and a threat. And, who will soon to be the ALL-Time best closer ever, Mariano Rivera. And who wouldnt want a Giambi, Sheffield and A-Rod added tot he roster? Put Moose on the bump followed by Wang, who is a homegrown rookie also. RJ as the 3 and Wright and Lidle to finish.

Middle relief is where they would lose a game if I had to bet. Farnsworth is shady. Throws hard but is wild. Proctor is suspect. Myers is clutch only on Ortiz and a few other leftys.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 09/01/06 08:43 PM

I like Proctor, he's a very good pitcher. He has just thrown so many innings now, it makes him a liability.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/05/06 09:38 AM

Royals had the game locked.

while only giving up one run through 7, the 8th proved to be a litle diffeent. The bombers erupted for 10 in the 8th and added another in the 9th. The 12-5 win wasnt all roses though. Rivera is still having issues with his arm and wont pitch at all this series. Nice performence by the Royals starting pitcher, cant say that for the bullpen though. Royals look much better now than the team in April and May. Still, the Yanks just have to tough-a lineup to be held down for a full 9 innings.
Posted by: jaihaux

Re: Yankees. - 09/05/06 11:32 PM

Royals 5, Yankees 0. New York, shutout by Jorge De La Rosa and Todd Wellemeyer. Jeter whiffs with the bases loaded and two outs in the ninth.
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 09/06/06 07:06 AM

Quote:

Royals 5, Yankees 0. New York, shutout by Jorge De La Rosa and Todd Wellemeyer. Jeter whiffs with the bases loaded and two outs in the ninth.




Now that's what I call balanced reporting.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/06/06 08:20 AM

I really hate games like these.

Yanks should of got beat the first game if not for the 8th inning beating they handed out. Mussina had a good return from the DL last night. Errors in the field meant more time on the bump for Moose. Add no run production to that and you got a 5-0 win for the Royals. Games like these are meaningless, unless your the Royals. This will get their young players focused on what they have for the future and the way they played against the Yankees. For the Yanks, it was a series they could rest their players. Giambi sits. No Jeter in the field. And throwin in middle relief time to suspect players who Torre needs to see pitch come playoff time.

We'll get it back on tonight.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/12/06 08:00 AM

All 4 New York born teams could be in the playoffs this year.

Giants
Dodgers
Mets
Yankees
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/16/06 10:47 PM

40-40.

Damm I miss Soriano.
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 09/18/06 09:45 AM

OK. With all of the good divisional races going on out there, why in the HELL did we have to suffer through another Red Sucks/Yankees contest last night on ESPN?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/19/06 12:42 PM

Sorry Manny........but ARod is just bein ARod. Jeter is just bein Jeter. Bobby Abz is just bein Bobby Abz. And the bullpen....well....the bullpen is just bein the bullpen. What a horrific performence by the stripes in the 9th. 4 pitchers in one inning? Are you serious! I need the Sandman and I need him NOW!!!!

Arod: 2run HR. Jeter: go-ahead 2run HR. Abz: clutch 9th inning rbi's. I guess its time to just outscore the opponent.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 09/20/06 12:23 AM

A-Rod sure is clutch when there's absolutely nothing on the line... and last I checked offense wins championships...
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/20/06 08:30 AM

A-Rod sure is clutch when there's absolutely nothing on the line
__________________________________________________________

Agreed on that. ARods numbers are up there but his clutch performence stinks. Bonds was the same way during his playoff appearences with Pittsburgh, no clutch hitting and his teams went no where. Then, his '02 playoff/WS performence was off the hook in a tough loss to the Angels. ARod will have to mirror that during this playoff run. Only with a ring.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/20/06 08:47 AM

and last I checked offense wins championships...
____________________________________________________________

With the Yankees it does. If the Yanks go down it will be in the 1st round. Only got to beat them 3 times. I trust these starters,Wang,Moose and Johnson. The bullpen has been suspect, but with Sandman being out it could be the best thing to complete this team come playof time. If the bullpen gets right then your lookin at '98 all over again, everyone gets swept!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/20/06 08:56 AM

SI has a article coming out in the next issue. Looks like ARod is finally getting grilled from Camp Stripes. Giambi had some say on his performence. Until #2 speaks, put a lid on it.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 09/20/06 10:09 PM

9 straight AL East titles. We wrapped up another one tonight!!! That's all I gotta say!!
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 09/21/06 11:20 AM

Yep, amazing what money can buy.
Posted by: bighawk84

Re: Yankees. - 09/21/06 06:40 PM

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP That is the sound of the yankees backing into the championship.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 09/21/06 07:48 PM

Quote:

Yep, amazing what money can buy.




So how rich must the Braves had to have been for 14 in a row?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/21/06 11:05 PM

Yep, amazing what money can buy.
_____________________________________________

Signed, Washington Redskins Owner
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 09/22/06 08:47 AM

Quote:

Yep, amazing what money can buy.
_____________________________________________

Signed, Washington Redskins Owner




So are you saying money can't buy chamionships?
Posted by: jayhawk154

Re: Yankees. - 09/22/06 12:29 PM

The Braves are almost the perfect case study to make madcapper's point...

Rich enough to buy their division
Not high enough to buy their WS titles

2006 - 9th
2005 - 10th
2004 - 8th
2003 - 3rd
2002 - 7th
2001 - 5th
2000 - 4th
1999 - 3rd
1998 - 3rd
1997 - 5th
1996 - 3rd
1995 - 3rd
1994 - 3rd
1993 - 7th
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 09/22/06 07:58 PM

Keep in mind it's much harder to buy championships in football than baseball. They've got an actual salary cap, and everybody has the same shot at signing talent. The "homegrown" Yankees like Cabrera, Wang, and Robinson Cano were foreigners who were not eliglble for the MLB draft. That means anybody willing to pony up the most $ gets to sign these guys... and what a shocker that it was the Yanks.
Posted by: jayhawk154

Re: Yankees. - 09/22/06 08:03 PM

It's becoming a joke...

2006:

1. NY Yankees - $ 194,663,079

2. Boston Red Sox - $ 120,099,824

3. Los Angeles Angels - $ 103,472,000



2005:

1. NY Yankees - $ 208,306,817

2. Boston Red Sox - $ 123,505,125

3. New York Mets - $ 101,305,821


2004:

1. New York Yankees - $ 184,193,950

2. Boston Red Sox - $ 127,298,500

3. Los Angeles Angels - $ 100,534,667
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/23/06 12:15 AM

So are you saying money can't buy chamionships?
______________________________________________________

It aint bought the Redskins one. It bought the Braves ONE during their 90's stomp. Red Sox aint even in the playoffs.

And I dont think i have EVER seen a situation where Steinbrenner handed Selig 200,000,000 and said "i'll take the platinum one". You still got to win on the field. I'll be the first to say that Steinbrenner overpays. When they one 3 in a row and 4 in 5 years that was with role players. after the Arizona defeat is when it escalated. And I would be thanking Steinbrenner if I was a Royals fan cause they get a part of that luxury tax. Put that towards one of your players so you can keep whoever.






It's becoming a joke...
______________________________________________

The jokes on teams like the Royals, Devil Rays, Mariners.
Either step up to the plate and spend some money or be a cellar dwellar like those teams. Or better yet just be the bottom feeding farm team for teams like the Yankees,Red Sox and the Mets. It's great to invade a team like the Royals and end up with players they CHOSE not to pay. Seriously, how many years do people replay the "salary" story? What Steinbrenner does every year is he gives the Yankees every chance to win the WS. What they do with that is up to them.

Since we are in K.C territory, if I were Royals fans I would be worried about your young prospects and them waving bye-bye in a few years. And if your owner is ballin' on a budget, than teams like the Yanks and Red Sox will be more than happy to open their wallet.

Don't hate cause the Yanks have an owner who wants to win EVERY year.
Posted by: jayhawk154

Re: Yankees. - 09/23/06 07:41 AM

Either step up to the plate and spend some money or be a cellar dwellar like those teams.


This just proves you don't understand the economics involved. And, saying the previous championships were all about role players is hilarious...how do you think he got them? How much did he pay them? Who did he trade to get them and where did those players come from? Give me a break.

The simple fact that you can't admit a.) baseball and football economics are different and b.) the Yankees tip the tables so there is very little competition for the prize only proves that you're a real Yankees' fan.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 09/23/06 07:54 AM

Of all the reading I have done about this, I have found one thing. All the teams have enough money to spend, it's just if they choose to spend it or not. I read in the Sporting News a while back that the Royals received somewhere between $60-$80 million last year from luxury tax and revenue sharing. That's money they could have put into payroll.
Posted by: jayhawk154

Re: Yankees. - 09/23/06 08:23 AM

The only two teams who paid a luxury tax in 2005 were the Yankees ($34M) and the Red Sox ($4M), so I'm not sure how your math adds up.

Listen, the Yankees had higher gate, promotional and television revenues than anyone else. Do the math on the gate revenues for the Royals and you'll quickly see how the concept of "decide to pay more" doesn't work as well unless the owners are supposed to win at all costs.

I'm not saying the Royals' ownership shouldn't spend more, but their ability to pay 2x more is non-existent. The fact that their being outspent by 2x (and 3+x in some cases) makes this a real barrier to true competition.
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 09/23/06 09:10 AM

It just shows that regardless of how well one recruits and develops the bottom line is having money to retain them. Teams like the yankees can forget about development, let other teams do it and then just offer more money than anyone else.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/23/06 05:18 PM

The Yankees have been around before most of our Grandfathers were even born. Steinbrenner makes madd loot off memoribilia, clothing and most anything that has the Yankees symbol. The Yankees are the number 1 market when talking clothing dollars. It goes further back than ALL teams combined in any sport. Steinbrenner buys the Yanks in the 70's and is determined to put them back where they belong, the World Series. Teams like the Royals have had a narrow mindset year after year after year and where have they gone? How many WS have they been in since their existence? Without Denkinger they have ZERO titles. I could name 27 other teams just like them. Would you Royal fans be upset if they signed a Ryan Howard if he was a FA? If they gave Howard a 5 year 65 million contract you wouldnt be pissed. Suprised, but not pissed. But thats not in the Royals nature now is it?

And 154, Name one playoff contender that has ALL of their players still with the MLB team from the farm team they came. Tell you what, go look up playoff bound teams, hell go look up all the teams, and scroll to the part where it says "drafted in ____round by the ______. I guarndammtee you most came from OTHER teams. Teams are built from other teams farmers.

Also 154, Jeter,Cano,Cabrera,Wang,Rivera,Posada,Proctor and Williams are all Yankee poducts. The first six have been major contributors this season. Players 1,5,6 and 8 have 4 rings.

Oh yeah, and who do you speak of about the role player issue? Let's see, Paul O'Neil? his best year with the Reds was '91 when he hit .256,28 hr and 91 rbi. Scott Brosius? His best year was '96 with Oakland, .304 ba, 22 hr, 71 rbi. Jim Leyritz? Oops, he was in the Yankee farm. Pettitte? Yankee farm.

Now for the fun part. Transactions: Paul O'neil. November 3, 1992: Traded by the Cincinnati Reds with Joe DeBerry (minors) to the New York Yankees for Roberto Kelly. Man sure do miss that Kelly.
Salary:
1993 New York Yankees $3,833,333
1994 New York Yankees $3,858,334
1995 New York Yankees $2,850,000
1996 New York Yankees $5,300,000
1997 New York Yankees $5,500,000
1998 New York Yankees $5,500,000
1999 New York Yankees $6,250,000
2000 New York Yankees $6,500,000
2001 New York Yankees $7,250,000

Now that's some big loot 154. 4 rings later that was a good investment. Steinbrenner 1, 154 0.

Scott Brosius: November 18, 1997: Sent by the Oakland Athletics to the New York Yankees to complete an earlier deal made on November 7, 1997. The Oakland Athletics sent a player to be named later to the New York Yankees for Kenny Rogers and cash. The Oakland Athletics sent Scott Brosius (November 18, 1997) to the New York Yankees to complete the trade.
1998 New York Yankees $2,650,000
1999 New York Yankees $5,250,000
2000 New York Yankees $5,250,000
2001 New York Yankees $5,250,000

Rogers: 190-131. No rings. Brosius? Gw home runs in WS, clutch hits in every WS.Good investment. Steinbrenner 2, 154 0. Also, did you catch his salary?

What other role players did you think of?

Were the figures that outrageous? And if they were, was it worth it?

And who did they really get rid of? Rogers? Pitching wasnt a problem then. Roberto Kelly? Hmmmm, maybe that's who you must be speaking of, you must be a big Roberto Kelly fan. Trust me Kelly for O'Neil was worth it.

Please correct me if the above mentioned has any errors.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/23/06 05:23 PM

154. And when I say spend money, spend money on your farm players so you can keep them. What the hell good is it to groom a kid at 18-19, have him be a major prospect, then lose him cause your wallet got stolen? when the kid has a 3 year contract, go to him in the second year and present him a deal, dont wait until the third and leave the nest open.
Posted by: jayhawk154

Re: Yankees. - 09/23/06 11:24 PM

You're just proving my point, man. 154 1, Yankee's biotch 0
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 02:21 AM

I proved your point is mud. Your point is about as sharp as a marble.

This was your point......

"how do you think he got them?"

I think I explained that real clear.
________________________________________________________


"How much did he pay them?"

Did I not give you salaries?
___________________________________________________________


I summed your point up.

Why dont you hate on the Red Sox? Or the Mets? They paid loot for OTHER teams players. Your just a Yankee hater. But like my man Kat Williams said....."If your gonna be a hater than be good at what you do".

Your doin a good job of it so keep it up!
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 01:05 PM

75 the only thing I can say that might help this is you need to take some kind of math or economics class. If we did what you're saying, spend what about 120 million so we can keep up, we'd lose about 50-60 million a year. This is all about economics. Let's forget about comparing the Yankees and Royals, we've been bad for so long it just doesn't work.

Let's concentrate on a team that has more World Series titles than the Yankees in the last 8 years, the Marlins. Why is it that a team that wins 2 World Championships, can't seem to afford their players when the to time to re-sign them comes? Is it just that their owner is cheap, or is there a chance that their owner got to be a multi-millionaire because he's a smart business man and realizes that if he pays his players more than they can bring in he'll lose millions every year? Nobody here is asking for an apology, I just want you to understand what we're up against. You can take chances on players that we can't, for example what would've happened if we decided to spend a bunch of money one year and took on Giambi and Randy Johnson a few years back, we'd be screwed. They haven't produced to what they're getting paid, but the Yankees can cover up bad big money signings with more big money signings, we'd be screwed for the next 10 years.

And enough talk about all the homegrown talent you've produced, if you take out the foreign players that you simply give the most money to, we're talking about 4 or 5 guys. If you insist on including the foreign players you better add Matsui to the list because we all know you guys developed him... yeah. Posada, Jeter, Pettite, and B. Williams... I'd take Dye, Beltran, Damon, and Flash Gordon anyday, and we could've done much better during that time if we had a better G.M. which we now do.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 01:18 PM

Go back and look at the last 8 years again. The Marlins have won 1 WS and the Yankees 3.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 01:31 PM

I should've said the last 9, then it would be 3 to 2. Sorry, I didn't feel like looking it up the first time. They're still a better example than the Royals.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 03:03 PM

And enough talk about all the homegrown talent you've produced, if you take out the foreign players that you simply give the most money to, we're talking about 4 or 5 guys.
__________________________________________________________

Robinson Cano: 381,100.

Hell even the Royals could afford that.

Chien-Ming Wang: 353,175

Again, even the Royals could afford that.

Mariano Rivera signed for pennies as a amateur FA in 1990. His first MLB contract in 1995 was for 109,000.

Bernie Williams signed his first contract in '91 for a whopping 100,00 dollars.

Posada signed in '97 for 158,500.

If these above mentioned players were available for ANY team to sign, why was it the Yankees were the ones to sign them? Obviously it wasnt cause they offered millions. It's called scouting. Talent goes far beyond college and high school. This game is OWNED by foreign players. Your point is as sharp as 154's marble. Every MLB team had the god given right to sign any of these players, the Yankees exercised theirs.

And the last three, Posada, Rivera and Williams? How many rings do they got? They EARNED their big contracts. Yanks didnt rob any team of those players or give up draft picks either. They kept who they scouted, wouldnt the Royals do the same? Oops, sorry.


Out of 30 some teams you found 1, the Marlins, who did something NO other team has done by dismantling and remantling. You talk as if thats the norm in baseball. If they done it KC could do it, right? Mariners could. Devil Rays could. I wont waste time naming others. Bottom line is they wont do it.

And I liked how you danced around my statement about "what if the Royals signed Ryan Howard would they be pissed?" Because Howard is having a MVP season you chose a rebuttal about a Yankee. Classic dance. Answer the question. Would you be pissed signing Howard? Pujols? Hypothetically, i'm looking at big time players for the Royals to sign. You comeback with, what I consider, busts. That's a Royal mentality though. Kind of like the SNL skit about the girl who always brings everyone down.

In all seriousness, the reason you cant spend that much is beacuse your not worth that much, and it's not their fault. Yankees have been around since the early 1900's. Royals have been around since, what, the 70's? You think this Yankees and what their worth started when Steinbrenner took over? They have a bank account that started when Babe Ruth signed. So of course they will have more money. Kind of like the fine wine, you think your bottle of wine dated 1969 is worth more than my bottle that is dated 1913? Maybe you need schooled on economics. Speaking of wine!


War to the Yankees, their 26 rings, 39 pennants, and 45 playoff appearences.

Also, war to the Royals, their one ring, 2 pennants and 7 playoff appearences.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 03:24 PM

300,000 x 25= 7.5 million (those small salaries that were paid to minor leaguers multiplied by how many are on each team)

7.5 million x 3= 22.5 million (number of minor league teams)

Since that's almost our entire budget, including big leaguers, I'm gonna say no the Royals can't afford to sign the same talent to minor league contracts. Would I be pissed if we signed Howard or Pujols.... well since those contracts would be somewhere between $15-20 million a year for Howard, and probably in the $25 million a year range for Pujols and our budget is around $35 million, yeah I'd be pissed. We could sign one great player and surround him with worse pitching than what we currently have (if that's possible) and even worse fielders surrounding him. I'll be ecstatic when Sweeney is out of here so we can take his contract that takes up roughly 1/3 of our entire budget out of the mix. We'd be idiots to sign anyone to that large of a contract whether they produce or not.

Will you acknowledge the fact that the Marlins have the better scouting/developmental department or are the Yanks just the best at everything?

In all seriousness the reason the Yankees can spend so much more than everybody else is: gate revenues, merchandise, the fact that they have their very own TV network, the largest market in sports, and oh yeah the number one reason would be that there isn't a SALARY CAP like there is in every other professional sport. Where would the Packers be if there wasn't a salary cap in football? Chances are they'd have followed the Montreal Expos and would not exist. The economics of the game has been the most disturbing trend in baseball the last few years, and it worries me far more than steroids. If this keeps up there will be about 8 teams left in 20 years, and I promise I'll quit watching baseball before I start rooting for one of them.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 03:59 PM

Why do you have a problem then with the Yankees signing someone for 300,000 or 100,000? (Cano,Wang,Cabrera). If the Yankees were the highest bidder and they still get criticized for offering those contracts then those players would still be in their respective countries playin' dirtball. If these players were with ANY other team it would be "good scouting", i.e Marlins. And no doubt the Marlins have proved to be the best scouts in MLB. What they did was a miracle that has never happened before('97,'03). I have said a couple of posts ago that Steinbrenner hit the panic button after '01. He signed Mussina, Giambi, Johnson, Pavano, Rodriguez, Matsui, Sheffield, Damon and now Abreu. I personally was madd happy during the 96-00 run(minus '97). Most of those signings were hardly necessary, even by Yankee standards. But as a Yankee fan, what do you do, switch teams? You just shake your head and raise the eybrow and go "I hope this works out". Well, it hasnt. The only good signings so far, to me, have been Damon and Mussina. Mussina filled a pitching spot and Damon has been Damon. All others they could of done without.

My point on the Royals is: they plant a seed. But before spring comes they dont get a chance to see it bloom cause they gave the flower to another team. If they prove to scout like the Marlins, and the Marlins only, then I would be impressed. But guys like Teahen who are good players, Grudzielanek, Emil Brown, Dejesus who are good players might see more money and have to make a decision on whats best for them.



Esteban German makes 333,000. Cano is making that much


Jorge Alberto De La Rosa makes 337,000. Wang makes as much.


Ambiorix Burgos makes 339,500. Cabrera makes as much.

You made a statement earlier that you couldnt afford a contract like Cano's or Wang's but can absorb these? Those same players were scouted by every team but because the Yankees happened to sign them it's time to say they paid to much.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 04:34 PM

I'll never claim we've got the best scouting department, I've been saying for quite a while that the best thing we could do would be to invest more into scouting and our farm clubs. I actually love the direction that we're going right now, and I'll be very happy to take another last place finish next season as long as we keep potential stars like Gordon, and Butler in the minors, and do something with the 4 consecutive top 3 picks we'll have. Add letting Sweeney walk or trade him for prospects and we've got an extra $11 million we can throw at a couple good pitchers. The key for us is going to be the stockpiling of talent, and then in 2-4 years we'll bring up all that talent at the same time. By doing so their arbitration dates will all coincide and we'll have 3 years or so to put a winner on the field. If the young guys start winning while they have decent salaries, we'll get larger attendance, more merchandise money, and hopefully an added boost of playoff money. Then as our revenue increases we can start paying the best of the crop the money they deserve.

As much as it might sound like it, I'm not hating on the Yanks, I'm hating on baseball a system that lets one team spend about $200,000 million, and another less that $15, I'd be very happy if there was a $100,000 million ceiling, where every team had to spend at least 50 and no one could go over 150. Wouldn't that be somewhat fair?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 09/24/06 10:07 PM

I totally agree.

I wish Steinbrenner/Cashman would stay with the farm and mold their players. One i do miss is Alfonso Soriano. In a second I would take him back instead of Arod. However, Cano would of probably got traded and never would of played second. Even in '98, which is arguebly the best Yankee teams ever('27 was the best imo), people hated the Yankees won. But money couldnt be the issue cause their salaries werent even blown up:

Bernie Williams $8,300,000.00
David Cone $6,666,667.00
Chuck Knoblauch $6,000,000.00
Paul O'Neill $5,500,000.00
David Wells $4,666,666.00
Chili Davis $4,333,333.00
Tino Martinez $4,300,000.00
Andy Pettitte $3,800,000.00
Hideki Irabu $2,925,000.00
Joe Girardi $2,850,000.00
Scott Brosius $2,650,000.00
Mike Stanton $1,916,667.00
Jeff Nelson $1,766,667.00
Tim Raines $1,300,000.00
Chad Curtis $1,250,000.00
Darren Holmes $1,066,667.00
Graeme Lloyd $875,000.00
Darryl Strawberry $875,000.00
Luis Sojo $800,000.00
Dale Sveum $800,000.00
Orlando Hernandez $750,000.00
Derek Jeter $750,000.00
Mariano Rivera $750,000.00
Willie Banks $342,500.00
Ramiro Mendoza $275,000.00
Jorge Posada $250,000.00
Joe Borowski $188,800.00
Homer Bush $178,900.00
Shane Spencer $170,000.00
Jay Tessmer $170,000.00


But since it was the Yankees, the haters were pissed cause they are anti. Look at what Jeter made then and take what he makes now, 20.6 mill. There was no way they would let him go to another team in '98 so they felt they needed to spend. The reason why this money thing is an issue is cause the ARod contract. I'm tellin you it is vertical to the Kevin Garnett contract, 6 years, 126 mill. These big contracts were signed and other guys who put up similiar numbers wanted around the same. Texas Rangers were guilty of the ARod deal. People can slight Arod for the money he makes, but if my kid gets the same offer then i'm buyin him a 10 pack of bic's in case one ran out of ink. Any of us, i'm sure, would sign the same deal and accept the criticism that comes with it. December of 2000 ARod signed the lucrative, 10 year 252 mill deal. Texas started that big market of contracts. Soon after that, Feb. '01, Jeter signs his(10yrs. for 189). Jeter took that template and then approached Cashman and said "look, I got 4 rings. show me the money".

But I do agree with you on the Yankees overspending. I was just makin a point to you that, while the overspending is a big issue, they do have their own players that they have scouted and drafted and who have played a major role in their success the last few years, specifically this year. Sheff goin down, Matsui goin down, Damon bein' injured, Pavano bein' a bust, was the best thing that happened to this team. It forced them into the farm and gamble for the first time in a long time and it paid off big time.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 10/02/06 02:58 PM

Time to warm up the hands......the playoffs are here.

First I would like to say I am glad the Yankees avoided the Twins in the first round. The pitching they have and the five game series would of been to their advantage. Good luck A's.

Detroit will be a handful to deal with. It will either be a situation where the big stage crumbles the young pitchers or the young pitchers shine on the big stage. I doubt Detroit wants to get in a "who can score the most runs" game, so pitching will have to be the life jacket that keeps them above water. The ocean runs deep in NY.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 10/04/06 09:23 AM

"Start spreadin' the news".....nobody is sweeter than Jeter

Offense: 5-5, 2 doubles 2 singles and a HR. Defense: Runners on the corners, 1 out, backhand double play to end the 3rd. Thats why this guy is MVP this year. It's been voted already but this is what he does year in and year out. It's his defense that Yankee fans love the most. Sure the hits are needed, who wouldnt want a 5-5 night, but it's the glove with the love that gets fans jacked up.

Bobby Abz had a remarkable debut driving in 4 rbi's. His double in the 3rd got the Yanks on the board. He wasnt done though. In the 7th, knocked in 2 more with a judy to right, gotta love the judy's. Giambi was clutch with his smash in the 5th.

2 words, CY WANG!

Santana will win it but this guy is surfacing out of nowhere. Game 1. Yankee stadium. Rookie. Get er' done. No problem boss. The kid is just ice when on the mound. Sure Detroit put some on the board but didnt faze Tai-Wang. All for 300 plus thousand. Now 19 million dollar Moose is on the bump. Unbelievable, 300 thousand starts, 19 mill follows. Only in NY!
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 10/04/06 10:52 AM

Quote:

2 words, CY WANG!

Santana will win it but this guy is surfacing out of nowhere. Game 1. Yankee stadium. Rookie. Get er' done. No problem boss. The kid is just ice when on the mound. Sure Detroit put some on the board but didnt faze Tai-Wang. All for 300 plus thousand.




I don't know that I would consider a guy that had many major league teams offering his Japanese league team cash just to be able to buy his "rights" as coming out of nowhere. The guy is very good though, I'll give you that.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 10/04/06 11:17 AM

To scouts, no, he hasnt surfaced out of nowhere.

To the baseball civilians like me, yes, he did.

If you followed this guy in Taiwan all the way up til now, then I tip my cap to you, you're one helluva player.

I knew he was in the farm but to say he was gonna step in and be our Ace, huh-uh, missed that prediction. He was called up cause of injuries, that is why I say he surfaced out of nowhere.
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 10/04/06 11:54 AM

I'll give you that.

With the Unit and the Moose you wouldn't expect this guy to be the man, but he is. I'm just surprised that you didn't know more about him before the call up with all of the hoopla that is surrounding the Asian stars following Ichiro and Matsui to the states and the cash their Asian teams are commanding just to let the American teams negotiate with the players.

I can't recall the latest can't miss pitcher from the Japanese league, but his team is asking for sealed bids from Major League teams just for his rights. The thought is the bidding for his rights is going to be in the low 7 figures, then the "winner" is going to have to sign the kid.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 10/04/06 04:26 PM

The Wangster did fly underneath my radar as far as talent went. Before triple A, I hadnt done much homework on the kid. But Wow! The Asian Persuasian is the real deal. Yanks shelled out 2 mill to get the kid back in 2000, dont know if that was part of the pay off deal though.
Posted by: martinkufan

Re: Yankees. - 10/05/06 02:25 PM

A Rod sure gets paid a lot of money to suck.
Posted by: spacey

Re: Yankees. - 10/05/06 02:34 PM

Be thankfull for the Yankees. It gives people someone to root against when their team is not in the playoffs. Parity sucks. What fun is a superbowl when your team is not in the game? how do you choose whom to root for? How can you hate the Seahawks or Panthers?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 10/05/06 02:36 PM

Suck is such a shallow word. You must be a ARod or a Yankee hater. Maybe both. Or maybe your a Yankee fan and are fed up with ARod. Nevertheless, i'll drink to the paid alot of money verse. To me, in this case, "Suck" would mean he hasnt produced when needed for the Yankees.
Posted by: martinkufan

Re: Yankees. - 10/05/06 02:49 PM

I hate neither A Rod or the Yankees. I just like to root for the underdog. You and I know A Rod hardly sucks but I am a guy who believes maybe MLB should have a base salary and then a player should get paid at the end of the year based on incentives and performance. I know that is an imposible theory but many players are either over or under paid and not earning what they deserve.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 10/05/06 03:39 PM

That would be the Ricky Williams contract your speaking of. Williams had the same deal when New Orleans signd him. Had madd incentives, yards, games played, yds per year, etc. That got scrapped after he got hurt in game 7 of his rookie year.

Texas Rangers should have NEVER done that deal with ARod. It put a target on his back and madd criticism from fans. But who wouldnt take that chance? I know I would. Bottom line is ARod signed on to these problems himself. His Ken Griffey Jr. rabbit ears makes him listen to what everyone says about him, along with being self conscious. Bad recipe.

I do agree with you on the contract though, but only cause he hasnt won anything to show for his worth. Winning is a good deodorant.

Todays game didnt help. 3 k's and a flyout. 1 of the k's came with bases loaded in the 2nd, looking. But thats what Steinnbrenner gets. Bring me back guys like Scott Broscious, Paul O'Neil, Tino Martinez and Jim Leyritz.
Posted by: martinkufan

Re: Yankees. - 10/08/06 08:12 AM

Done. Season Over!
Posted by: brando

Re: Yankees. - 10/08/06 10:22 AM

Quote:

Done. Season Over!




wait..I thought you were talking about Joe Torre....wait...that too....
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 10/08/06 11:50 AM

Wow......what a kick to the teeth!

Cant even get out of the first round...AGAIN!

Last 6 years: 3 first round exits, 2 World Series losses and a historic collapse. All while dishin' out a billion dollars in payrolls and luxury tax.

From A-Z, Damon to Derek, AFraud(performence) to GFraud(steroids), they got raked across the field.

Detroit was a dismal 9-31 to end the season. Couldnt hold a 6-0 lead on the last day of the season vs. the Royals and lost the division the same day. Drew the Yankees in the 1st round and people shut the door on'em, including me. One of the biggest, if not the biggest, upsets in playoff history. Period.

I gain a wrinkle every year my two favorite teams get bounced in the first round, Jayhawks and the Yankees. Bill Self and ARod have a shallow connection, 1st year almost is a championship. 2nd and 3rd are 1st round exits. No more 1st round exits cause i'm becoming a raisan.
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 10/08/06 01:17 PM

Amazing what money can buy?
Posted by: martinkufan

Re: Yankees. - 10/09/06 07:41 AM

Quote:

A Rod sure gets paid a lot of money to suck.




A Rod - "I sucked", said after Yankees were eliminated.
Wow, maybe A Rod does suck? Lets see how much of his salary he gives back to Steinbrenner.
Posted by: BradKU

Re: Yankees. - 10/09/06 03:01 PM

Not to start a rumor or anything but I wanted to throw this out there. There has been some speculation that AROD will not be a yankee next year. So who is willing to pick up his salary? Well, the royals have a new GM and my understanding is that he was given complete control over player personnel by the owner. Do you think there is absolutely ANY chance KROD could be a Royal? Other teams I think that could be in the market are the big names like the Mets, BoSox, Cards, LA...blah blah. What do you think?
Posted by: bpritchett

Re: Yankees. - 10/09/06 03:20 PM

It'd be buying a Lambroghini when the kids don't have food or school supplies.

Alex Rodriguez has, what, four years left on his contract at about $15 million a year? That would be about 20% of the Royals payroll? Because, while there is a new GM, the owners are the same. Is AR really worth 20% of the payroll? He's no leader. He's no pitcher.

Frankly, the best thing that can happen for the Royals as far as AR is concerned is that he stay a Yankee and keep stoking the meltdown.
Posted by: byteme

Re: Yankees. - 10/09/06 04:37 PM

I'm hoping the Torre is out rumors are true. Then my team of choice can waive goodbye to TLR and bring Joe back where he belongs.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 10/09/06 04:46 PM

This is where I have to laugh. Royals fans will bash ARod so much, but wouldn't bitch a bit if they picked him up.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 09:16 AM

Quote:

This is where I have to laugh. Royals fans will bash ARod so much, but wouldn't bitch a bit if they picked him up.




Our budget is $45 million, ARod makes $25 million. So with a little quick math you can see that he would take up over half our budget... I'd bitch, and any Royals fan who knows anything would be bitching with me.
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 10:39 AM

Actually the Rangers are still picking up about 10 mill/season, but it would still be about 1/3 of the payroll. Of course as bad as he sucks, at least he's on the field everyday unlike the guy the Royals have taking up about a 1/4 of the payroll already who is nothing more than a glorified pinch hitter he's hurt so often.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 10:40 AM

With the money the Royals receive from luxary tax and renue sharing, they could spend more than $45 million.
Posted by: jayhawk154

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 12:19 PM

Quote:

With the money the Royals receive from luxary tax and renue sharing, they could spend more than $45 million.




Can you please report what that number is...it seems the math from the last several seasons doesn't support your claim.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 02:54 PM

"Franchises such as Kansas City depend on shared money. The Royals received around $50 million last season, $30 million of it from a central fund that distributes money to every team and $20 million from a Robin Hood fund that takes local revenue dollars from the top earners and allocates them to the teams with poor revenue streams. "

The Great Divide

Why can't they put that money towards payroll?
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 03:37 PM

Quote:

I'm hoping the Torre is out rumors are true. Then my team of choice can waive goodbye to TLR and bring Joe back where he belongs.


Torre isn't going anywhere. TLR is who Cardinal fan is going to be stuck with for at least another season.

Anyone else thing Girardi to the Cubs isn't gonna happen?
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 03:56 PM

A. Glass is cheap, there's no denying that
B. The revenue sharing number will be in the $12-15 million range this year, not 20, and this will be the highest it's ever been
C. Our budget could go up to the $60-65 million range, but spending $20 or even $15 million a year on any one player is a mistake in my opinion. I'd rather Glass makes a little extra right now, as long as when the studs start coming up he's not afraid to pay them.
D. After spending $200 million, the Yankees are now doing the exact same thing as the Royals, watching the playoffs on TV.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 04:43 PM

D part 2: with another Division championship
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 04:51 PM

That's like KU basketball winning the Big 12 North, big deal, it's what you do in the post season that people remember.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 06:23 PM

There is no Big 12 North in basketball.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 06:35 PM

Good point... I guess I should've said congrats on beating those other 4 teams, go out and celebrate... You're better than the Devil Rays!!!
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 10/10/06 06:59 PM

The Braves got the warm reception for winning a weak NL East many many years in a row. Considering it had the Expos, Marlins (strong for 2 years), and Phillies.
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 10/11/06 08:15 AM

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe all of those division titles for the Bravos were in the layout that we currently have. Weren't about half of those when they were in the NL West (or was it the East)before the three division set up when there was a little more competition among the top 3 or so teams in each division?
Posted by: chiknbut

Re: Yankees. - 10/11/06 01:27 PM


Anyone else thing Girardi to the Cubs isn't gonna happen?

I agree, it won't happen. For the simple reason that the fans are clamoring for him. The best thing to happen to Girardi is to not get the call.

They'll be looking to sign a relatively no-name former third-base coach that wasn't at any time affiliated with the White Sox. They are now believers, especially since Ozzie Guillen won on the south side, that this is the new formula for success.
Posted by: J_hawker

Re: Yankees. - 11/05/06 06:58 AM

I really like the Yankees
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 11/05/06 11:39 AM

I hate the Yankees AND their NL counterpart the Cardinals.
Posted by: jayhawkdon

Re: Yankees. - 11/07/06 11:44 PM

the yankees suck and steinbrener swallows!!!!!!
Posted by: MICHHAWK

Re: Yankees. - 11/11/06 08:09 AM

Sheffield to the TIGERS!
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 11/11/06 11:27 PM

Now if I could read A-rod to the Royals. That would be nice. We could put him at ss ship Beroa's ass out of KC and have a legit superstar for the first time since Brett or Bo. I am not saying he makes us a contender but at least we would have a reason to go to the park. So he sucks in the post season so what, we are not going there anyway so it makes no difference! Hey, I am a Royals fan all I have is dreams....let me have it okay.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 11/16/06 10:27 PM

Warmin our hands up in the Bronx.

Sheff was given his pardon and Wright was dealt to the Orioles. Got some young pitchers in return. Dont know much about any of them though. Re-signed Mussina. Still probably will scoop up another vet, Zito or maybe even Pettitte. A lefty would be good.

And what's with Boston tryin to be bigwigz and payin 51 million for a plane ticket to the states? That dude will sign for what, 3 years, topps? And get paid about 45 mill for those three. This guy better win them a title in those three years or they'll have more wasted money than my Yanks. And what up with not payin' Damon, Arroyo and Pedro and lettin them walk but goin all out for this dude? Like I said, if they win a ring then money well spent, but no ring and droppin 100 mill on some cat that might walk after around 3 years?
Posted by: MICHHAWK

Re: Yankees. - 11/19/06 10:10 AM

They had to block the yankees. If Boston didn't spend the money, the yankees would have.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 11/19/06 10:37 AM

Yep, Yankees and Sox are everything that is wrong about baseball. That much for a player that has never seen the field in MLB. I think the fans owe Arod an apology because the real payrod just went to Boston.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 11/21/06 01:19 PM

Jeter got robbed
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 11/21/06 02:01 PM

Jeter is overated. If he is not in NY is just another SS.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 11/21/06 03:21 PM

"Overrated." "Just another ss."

I can see your baseball knowledge is awfully shallow. Or your a Yankee hater. Whichever it is, I respect it.

Please, induldge me on why Jeter is overrated?
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 11/21/06 05:41 PM

Jeter is not even the best SS on his team. It was travesty to move A-Rod to short but they had to because Jeter does not have the arm for the hot corner. Jeter is really good in the clutch but that has nothing to do with his position on the field. Honestly, when you look at his numbers compared to other SS his about middle of the pack. So much of his popularity is due to his pretty boy good looks and his NY market.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 11/22/06 08:16 AM



.317 career batting avg.
.388 ob%
2150 hits
3 gold gloves
4 rings

And a shortstop highlight reel from here to Haiti...

Not puttin a name with these numbers makes this overrated smack sound even more shallow. Admit it, you've hit rock bottom, your a Yankee hater.

Derek Jeter is the face of Major League Baseball
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 11/23/06 01:27 AM

I am a Yankee hater not doubt and no apologies but that has nothing to do with Jeter being overrted. I am nowhere near the only one that thinks it. Check out SI.com and search DJ. There actually is a whole article about who is overrted and he is number one on the list voted by.....his peers! Yes that is right fellow MLB players. Do you think Ernie Banks, Cal Ripken, or even A-rod got that from fellow players? I don't think so. And as far as stats go stack him up against the guys in the hall or even the top 5 stat guys currently and you see outside of BA he ranks pretty low. Now, do you think if he played for most anyone else without that line up he has those stats? No way and if you think he would you are fooling yourself. And one more think the face of MLB is one Albert Pujols.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 11/29/06 05:48 PM

Voting polls are overrated.

I suppose you think Russell Robinson is overrated also.

Jeter might not put up your HOF numbers and he might not even put up MVP numbers but his leadership, hardwork and championships are what set him apart.

And this overrated poll you speak of, dont let that be your crutch on grading Jeter.

Jeters 12 year career compared to Cal Ripkens first 12 arent that different.

Runs: Jeter 1277-------Ripken- 1043
Hits: 2150------- 1922
2b: 347-------- 369
3b: 50-------- 44(career)
rbi: 860-------- 1014
sb: 249-------- 36(career)

Fielding % .972 .977
Errors: 175 187


And again, is Russell overrated? He doesnt put up big numbers. But he is a LEADER. You say Jeter would be less with another team, how bout Russell? Your words are hypocritical to the stats, are they not? Maybe I should ask this, is Cal overrated? Through 12 years Jeter beats him in every stat but rbi's and doubles.

Heres another one also, 4 rings.

And please, Pujols is not the face of baseball. He may be one of the best, if not the best, but not the FACE of baseball.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 01:23 AM

I love the stats but one catagory you keep leaving out...Home runs. Care to go there? Also, are you trying to tell me Jeter is more of leader than Cal? Talk about Yankee blinders. Say what you will about the poll but being voted most overrated by your peers does say a lot. And the four ring thing is a silly argument and in fact makes my point. HE IS A YANKEE which give him huge advantages. Seriously, is Jeter considered great if he plays for the Royals, Cubs, Marlins, ect? Is Jeter better or more of a leader than say Ernie Banks who has zero rings? Rings are an indicator of being on a good TEAM not being a great player. The list of HOF greats with a single ring or none is much longer than the host of average guys who playeed with the Yanks who have multiple rings....Tino Martinez for example. See my point about rings not being an indicator of personal greatness. Finally, if you think the home run guys are not the face of baseball you are kidding yourself. Remember the Mac, Bonds, and Sosa summers before the roid blowup? Was Jeter the fact of baseball then too? Now it's Albert, point being home runs are marketed and thats what sells tickets and video games. It is not the Jeters or David Ecksteins of the world who hit 10 home runs a year and play a solid SS. That is just the way it is. As far as RR goes no he does not score a lot of points but apples and oranges becuase it is a different game. That said RR CAN put up 20 pts if he has to but can Jeter hit 40 bombs or steal 40 bases if the Yankees need him to? No, because his game is what you see nothing more. A really good and consistant SS with a penchant for the clutch playing on the highest paid team in baseball and a line of guys 6 deep to hit him in and protect him in the lineup. Is he a HOF....yes. Is he one of the top 5 in the game right now....maybe. Is he one of the top 5 HOF SS...no way in hell.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 10:20 AM

Home runs? Thats it? Thats all you can come back with? How 'bout productivity. Baseball isnt all about the long ball, its more about productivity. When the HR isnt there how has the player been productive? And check when Jeter won his rings, 96,98,99,00. The Yanks didnt start their big spending spree until the '01 season. Role players and homegrown talent is what they won with then. Hate the Yanks cause of Steinnbrenner. Hate'em cause of their spending. Hate'em cause they are just the Yanks. But dont hate cause they win. They start out the year 0-0 just like everyone else. And yeah Jeter is great if he is playing for those teams, he would be on crappy teams, but still have the same stats, maybe better. And where does comparing Banks to Jeter matter? Ok then give me a Ernie Banks leadership moment. I can give you a fistfull of Jeter moments where leadership took place. And your rings analogy, sorry, but unfortunally ring or no ring is a big factor when sizing up your career. Baseball is more an individual sport than the other major sports.

My point to this whole thing was comparing Jeter to another HOFer who played his position. And through the first 12 years his stats are comparable, are they not? You bring up HR's but look at the areas where Jeter is more productive than Cal. 3b, sb(200 more than Cal and counting) and hits(another 200 more than Cal, thats a whole season more). And comparing RR to Jeter is in reference to being overrated cause your numbers.

Albert Pujols. That whiney lil beeyatch. He wins a WS ring and bitch and moans over AN INDIVIDUAL AWARD! Wow, amazing! I bet Ryan Howard would tade him rings in a second. You see, Jeter wouldnt bitch over stuff like that. Memo to Pujols: The award is chosen at the END OF THE REGULAR SEASON. Your team backed into the playoffs. No one on your team was worthy of squat at the end of the season. Howard single handily carried his squad to the end only to come up short. Quit bitchin' Albert and enjoy your TEAM ring. And nobody really knows Pujols. Sure we know him in a uniform but his marketing stinks. Sorry, but MLB wants a face that is marketable.....I give you Derek Jeter. And can you give me an update on your "HR guys" that were the face of baseball? That would be Mcgwire, Sosa and Bonds you spoke of. I wouldnt use Cal and their names in the same sentence.

And before you go start rah rah'n about overrated, you might check the HOF stats of ALL ss. Since you like to lean on HR's and offensive stats when you rate a player, Ernie beats him in HR's, only. And thats with a 20 year career. All across the board Jeter smashes Ernie through 12 years, even in fielding %. Phil Rizzuto? Shatters all his numbers through 12. Again, even in fielding %. Ozzie? Your a big numbers guy, Ozzie had a TOTAL of 28 hr's in his career. Yount? Again, Jeter has better projected stats, even in hits. I have broken Cal's stats down already. And you say he is overrated but you include him as a HOFer,and "maybe" being the top 5 in baseball right now. He is in the top 5 best shortstops EVER. Bottom line is your a hater when it comes to the Yankees.
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 12:12 PM

I'll admit it.

I'm a hater when it comes to the Yankees.

I love every time they lose a game.

That doesn't mean I don't respect them though and what they are able to accomplish. I have a strong dislike for Jeter, but would love to see him playing for my team (Johnny Damon - he could disappear completely from the game as far as I'm concerned) and that goes for Bernie, and A-Rod as well.

I think you're correct that the hater often gets in the way of strong reasoning.
Posted by: Ike

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 12:50 PM

How can you hate the Yankees???????????
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 01:00 PM

Quote:

How can you hate the Yankees???????????


It's quite easy actually.

Kind of like Duke. You either love them or you hate them. No middle ground.

Me - I'm a hater.
Posted by: Ike

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 01:04 PM

You guys are strange. They are AWESOME!
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 01:29 PM

I'd like to step in here and take the middle ground on Jeter. On the one hand, he is an excellent hitter. In fact, he might be an even better hitter than his numbers allow for because he plays in Yankee Stadium, a notorious pitcher's park. Jeter's career OPS+ (that's his OPS adjusted for the run-scoring era he played in and his home ballpark) is 123. That means he's 23% better as a hitter than the average of the leagues he has played in. There are only two Hall of Fame shortstops with better career marks: Arky Vaughan (136) and Honus Wagner (175).

That said, not only is he really not worthy of any of the three Gold Gloves he's won, I would argue that he was a terrible defensive player until he suddenly had a real Gold Glove shortstop playing to his immediate right. Looking just at his .975 career fielding percentage and calling him a good defender is simply wrong. Yes, he does comparatively well in fielding the balls that he gets to. The problem is that he doesn't get to nearly enough balls. He was okay when he first got to the big leagues, posting better than average Range Factors in both '96 and '97, his first two years as a starter. But then things started going downhill fast:

Range Factor (RF) versus League Range Factor (LgRF)
(Figures are per game)
1998: Jeter - 4.16; League - 4.26. (2.3% below average)
1999: Jeter - 3.93; League - 4.19. (6.2% below average)
2000: Jeter - 3.95; League - 4.17. (5.3% below average)
2001: Jeter - 3.70; League - 4.03. (8.2% below average)
2002: Jeter - 3.76; League - 4.15. (9.4% below average)
2003: Jeter - 3.65; League - 4.13. (11.6% below average)

And those numbers actually make him look BETTER than he really was, because they're based on games played, not innings played. Per inning, Jeter was actually even worse than the average AL shortstop, because he almost always plays complete games, while a lot of light-hitting shortstops are pulled early for a pinch hitter. These are the per inning numbers, which I only have data for since 2000:

2000: Jeter - 4.12; League - 4.71. (12.5% below average)
2001: Jeter - 3.81; League - 4.49. (15.1% below average)
2002: Jeter - 3.81; League - 4.56. (16.4% below average)
2003: Jeter - 3.75; League - 4.54. (17.4% below average)

Not only was Jeter below average, but he was steadily getting worse and worse at reaching balls in play compared to the league. By 2003, the gap was so large between him and the average shortstop that the Yankees were surrendering about 125 more hits per year through the shortstop hole than the average AL team.

Then along came ARod, a clearly superior defensive shortstop.

Range Factor (RF) versus League Range Factor (LgRF)
(Figures are per game)
1996: ARod - 4.40; League - 4.19 (5.0% above average)
1997: ARod - 4.31; League - 4.05 (6.4% above average)
1998: ARod - 4.46; League - 4.26 (4.7% above average)
1999: ARod - 4.61; League - 4.19 (10.0% above average)
2000: ARod - 4.59; League - 4.17 (10.1% above average)
2001: ARod - 4.54; League - 4.03 (12.7% above average)
2002: ARod - 4.51; League - 4.15 (8.7% above average)
2003: ARod - 4.37; League - 4.13 (5.8% above average)

Note that ARod didn't win any Gold Gloves in the 1999 to 2001 stretch when he was clearly an exceptional defensive shortstop. Omar Vizquel was still cleaning up those awards each year, and habit dies hard among the voters. Vizquel had a lower range factor than ARod all three of those years, but he had the great reputation and still didn't mishandle many, so he kept getting rewarded for his diminishing range. By rights, ARod should have at least two more Gold Gloves as a shortstop.

But he wasn't asked to play shortstop in New York. That was Jeter territory, so ARod slid over to third base. The affect on Jeter's defensive play was astounding.

Range Factor (RF) versus League Range Factor (LgRF)
(Figures are per game)
2004: Jeter - 4.32; League - 4.12. (4.9% above average)
2005: Jeter - 4.56; League - 4.17. (9.4% above average)
2006: Jeter - 3.97; League - 4.02. (1.2% below average)

Suddenly, Jeter has range again. One year, 2005, it was even exceptional, and he might actually have been worthy of the Gold Glove he won (although personally I think Juan Uribe or Miguel Tejada deserved it). The other two years he wasn't terribly different from league average, but they were still a distinct improvement over his performance before ARod showed up.

The voters, seeing this improvement, suddenly started handing Jeter Gold Glove awards, apparently without ever bothering to ask themselves if Jeter was actually improved or if he now simply could cheat to his left more, secure in the knowledge that the new third baseman had the range of a shortstop.

Regardless, it's pretty evident that he is a vastly overrated defensive player. But his offense is so good at a premium position, and his intangibles and post-season play so exceptional, that he's still an obvious Hall of Famer.
Posted by: hail2oldku

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 02:44 PM

Thank you Billie Bean.

Just giving you shiite. Nice numbers.

Here's the thing for me though. He's a winner. Some guys have it and others don't. He has it, whatever it is. I still hate him though.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 03:08 PM

No offense taken. And for the record, I'm a Red Sox fan and I hate his guts. But credit where it's due, he's a Hall of Famer, just not for his defense.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 12/01/06 07:13 PM

No I think there is a lot more that I can come up with than HR's but I just thought it was a glaring ommision on your part. Thanks to 90 for pointing out Jeters glaring defensive weakness for me. Are those stats not good becaue they show how weak Jeter is? It did make my point which you never answered which is Jeter is not even the best SS on his team let alone the rest of baseball. I just used Ernie Banks as an example and was not basing my whole argument on him alone. Not to mention he played at a time when pitchers were dominant, the mound was higer, and throwing high and tight did not cause bench clearing brawls. Now take the fact the Banks played on some horrible teams and again my point is made. You never did answer but does Jeter reach anywhere near those numbers on bad teams??? No way. I will stand by what I said about the homeruns and that being the face of baseball. Are those good guys....no. But the longball is what brings in the money and fan excitement. Sosa, Bonds, Mac are credited with bringing baseball back with the homerun races not Jeter and his pretty boy looks. I personally would argue Cal started it with the streak but that is another post. Now, I already admited to being a Yankee hater but that is now why I think Jeter is overrated. I already told you I thought A-rod was/is the best SS in baseball and he is a Yankee too. I think Whitey Ford is one of the best world series pitchers of all time, I also think Mantle was the best switch hitter ever (sorry Eddie Murray)and yes those are all Yankees. I am sorry but I am just not caught up in Jeter mania. Oh, and don't give me that when Jeter won his rings the Yankees were not spending money crap. Go back and look at thier payroll and it was still one of the highest in baseball.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/03/06 09:56 AM

Numbers dont lie.

Bring in all your 4 point-whatever percentages and all the stats you all want to hang, but bottom line is Jeter is a winner. And when you mix a winning team with hating that winning team your recipe is destructive and tart.

I like when people have to number crunch to the root in order to find "negative" things about players. When you look at the surface, alot of teams would like to have Jeter on their respective teams. "How weak Jeter is"! That's some funny stuff right there.

Alot of hypothetical views about if Jeter didnt have certain players or if Jeter would be playing elsewhere he wouldnt be squat, try this hypothetical view: If the same numbers from the same guy were posted since 1996, and the same player wore the same uniform of the team you root for, would you still hate this guy as much as you do right now? Bottom line, 16 oz. bottle of Hater-Ade.

ARod is/was a better SS. Your talking about comparing Jeter to someone who will go down as the BEST SS of all time though. Tough break for Jeter but I would rather have 4 rings than "best ss" title.

Mound heighth, pitchers dominant? Try bein a hitter nowadays and facin 3-4 DIFFERENT pitchers in a game. Back then starters used to hurl 8 innings a game. Middle relief was not like now and closers were not even heard of. Try and be a 8 inning, every 4 day starter in 2007. Try and stay on the bump for 8 innings against lineups like the Yanks, Red Sox, White Sox and Cardinals night in and night out. Aint happenin'.

Your steroid buddies you mentioned did put some excitement back in the game. However, so did Jose Canseco at one point in his career but what is he remembered for most? Exactly. Your cheats were only good for so long. And dont forget the strike in '94 MLB was still reeling from. MLB was all for that memorable '98 chase after that travesty. They'll be nothing more than cheats when their chapter in MLB ends.

Your hypothetical views and hopes that Jeter fails will never happen. Bottom line is Jeter is a winner. Period. He is a leader on the field and someone you would want behind you if you were in the botttom of the ninth and need a big out.

Jeter and the Yankees since 1996: 4 rings. Winner of the A.L East 9 straight years. HOF SS. HOF numbers. Captain. And the face of MLB.


What happened with the Pujols-podium meltdown? I like the guy but, geez, what a worm. You win a WS ring and all of the sudden your diaper needs changed. Has Tony La changed his poopy diaper yet? Like I said, Jeter, MR. Team, would not take that selfish approach.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 12/03/06 10:29 AM

Your not even paying attention. MY steriod guys. Not my guys at all. If you troll thru the baseball posts you will see I called for those guys to be tossed so take that strawman "your guys" stuff somewhere else. In fact, if you go back I said I thought Cal's streak had more to do with the start of bringing baseball back but way to read only what you want to read. AP is not my guy either, my point was he brings an excitement that sells better than players like Jeter. Now, I don't disagree Jeter is a winner because he is but I do like how you post stats and then when someone else posts stats that go against your guy all of the sudden stats are no good. Your argument is just turning into Yankee hater Yankee hater and you just say it over and over again like it makes your point. I guess that means your argument is breaking down. I suppose I could tell you to take the Yankee glasses off. Now, if Jeter was on another team would I be a fan...probably not because on another team all he would be is what he is now. A good MLB hitter with lesser stats because he is on a worse team. His defense is what it is and that is average. Now, as far as your relief pitching two or three pitchers comment...well now you are just reaching. The mound was lowered, the strike zone changed, and the hitter became protected which is why offensive numbers jumped like crazy. Go back and review the numbers since the mound was lowered and you will see I am right. You are right pitchers used to routinely go the distance and suprise there were less arm injuries then. I would argue many (not all) of todays pitchers are so protected they don't throw enought and their arms break down. In fact, nobody but you even argues this point and many have started calling for the mound to be raised back again. In your first post you accused me of not knowing baseball well fella if you don't know this one then pot meet kettle. The funny thing is I told you I thought Jeter was a good player and a HOF and you can't accept that. For some reason you feel like if the baseball world does not annoint him the gretest SS ever and credit him with saving baseball somehow we are all wrong. And I am drinking kool-aid? Look in the mirror pal.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/03/06 11:18 AM

You brought those guys up with your long ball analogy. True the long ball is popular and is why people come to the games. But dont compare to what Jeter is lacking to a fistful of cheats. Maybe you dont realise but not all teams have 20 guys hittin 40 HR's. Teams are made up of different types of players, some are in the lineup for workin pitch counts and are patient hitters some are heavy hitters. Some are more about base hits and some are fast on the bases. Whatever it is a different players do is what makes up a team. It is unfair to compare Jeter to power hitters and say he overrated, try comparing Jeter with his SS peers.

I welcome all staticians when breaking down athletes. But I wont apologize for Jeter having a "average" percentage in the field. Some players dont even put a glove on but still are considered an MVP. Sure Jeter's numbers in the field are not the best, maybe not in the top whatever. But his all around game is what's contagious. I never said he was the best in the field. How bout doin some homework and postin other SS percentages and they're offensive stats and see where they end up. Like i said, thru 12 years Cal is the only SS who is in Jeter's stat category.

And I posted stats from other SS HOFers. I didnt get no feed back from those, that's why Yankee hater comes in cause thats the root of the problem.

I like how you dodge the hypothetically question I posed on same stats different team. All you did was readjust my analogy and tweaked his stats down and then you come up with "a good MLB hitter with lesser stats cause on a bad team".


My argument was strictly why Jeter isnt overrated. He is exactly what all teams need, leadership and a winning attitude. You spent more time pickin away at percentage points and comparing what he cant do rather than seeing what is in the book. Dont spend to much time trying to rewrite history and buying bottles of whiteout.

Who else is in your overrated folder? There has to be others. And by the way, you know my team, who is yours?
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 12/03/06 11:31 AM

Iam a Royals/Cubs guy. And before you even start I have not Yankee envy I just think they are bad for baseball with the salary thing and all. Beyond that we are just going to have to agree to disagree on Jeter. I think he is overrated and to you he is in the top 5 all time. I don't see it but you are entitled as am I.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/03/06 11:54 AM

Right on.

You might want to check the Cubs' payroll. While it's not Yankeeheighth it is following a growing trend, spending big. But I do root for the Cubs when not playing the Yankees. I hope they finally get over the goat and Bart. I have said countless times that I dont agree with the Yankees payroll, it actually makes me sick. But what can you do? I dont agree with more than half the decisions that have been made the last 6 years as a Yankee fan.

Royals. Well, the Royals are the Royals. Prospects get groomed and planted in their farm only to be swooped up by a bigger bird. It's gonna take a firm stance by a ALL Star position player that wants to stay a Royal and one helluva manager in order to repair that ship. You probably were a Johnny Damon fan before he left. Maybe even Beltran.

And dont get the story twisted, I never once typed that Jeter was the top 5 ALL TIME. Top 5 SS, yes. All time, no.

I'm good with the agreeing with disagreeing analogy. I always say If you dont stand for something you will fall for anything.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 12/03/06 02:56 PM

Its all good. We agree for sure on the Payroll thing. The Cubs have gone crazy this year for sure which I don't like to see. Just more feeding the monster. The Royals yeah well not much to say...they are what they are. The Yanks are kind of the evil empire of baseball but the irony for me is my favorite football team is the Yankees mirror image in a different sport...yep I am a Cowboys fan. Jerry Jones is the same as Steinbreiner. I respect both of their desires to win but I don't think spending the way the do is good. Anyhow fun discussion. Maybe next time we will have to argue about the pine tar incident between Gossage and Brett.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/03/06 04:51 PM

Two points:

1. You can't, on the one hand, say that you agree Jeter is an average defensive player and then, on the other hand, claim that he isn't overrated. Those are completely inconsistent views. He has been handed three Gold Gloves despite being, at best, an average defensive player. He is therefore, de facto, overrated defensively. Plain and simple. You can only claim he isn't overrated if you think he actually deserved those Gold Gloves, and trust me, that's an argument you would lose. I could go chapter and verse on that one.

2. I think Jeter is an outstanding offensive player for a shortstop. I've already noted that his adjusted career OPS is better than all but two Hall of Fame shortstops. That's a bit misleading because all of the Hall of Famers' numbers include their final years when their performances were declining, a stage Jeter hasn't reached yet, but it's still an impressive accomplishment so far. That said, it's ludicrous to claim that only Cal Ripken is in Jeter's class offensively as a shortstop. There are several shortstops who have been better offensively through their first dozen seasons that Jeter, and a couple who were essentially his equal:

OPS+, First 12 Seasons
(That's On-base Plus Slugging percentages, adjusted for home ballparks and run-scoring eras.)

Jeter: 123 (a.k.a., 23% better than the leagues he played in)

Honus Wagner: 164
Alex Rodriguez: 145
Arky Vaughan: 137
Ernie Banks: 130
Nomar Garciaparra: 130 (only 11 seasons so far)
George Davis: 126
Lou Boudreau: 124
Cal Ripken: 123
Vern Stephens: 122
Barry Larkin: 122

Jeter is an exceptional hitter for his position, and an exceptional leader. A real winner, he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Agreed, agreed, agreed and agreed. But to claim his first 12 years are matched only by Ripken among shortstops, and to fail to acknowledge that his defense is wildly overrated, is simply presposterous. Your argument is better if you acknowledge his shortcomings and proper historical place along with all of his obvious strengths. Refusing to do so makes you look like the one who can't be unbiased in this discussion.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/03/06 09:30 PM

I agreed simply because I was getting tired of kicking a deadhorse. Sometimes you just have to move on in discussions.

I think all your number crunchin' is good and all, but it doesnt ultimitly define him as being overrated as a baseball player. Not to many in the Hall, period, that were the best all the way across the board.

Tell you what then. Trash your dewey decimal system and %and show me what SS's had better offensive stats all the way around. Since your a numbers guy, mosey on in to the HOF and get the top 5 SS that are in. Now, take all the main categories offensively and cycle through each player and compare them to Jeter's first 12. Sure, there are a few columns he wont win, but add'em up and they are much better than you think.

It's funny, when you watch Baseball Tonight or hear a respected analyst they dont go into all this work and search and gasbag over these petty numbers you guys bring up. Analysts tend to state the obvious when describing what a ball player, Jeter in this case, means to a ball club. Only Red Sox fans and your typical Yankeehaters get all giddy and happy over these pointpercentage hoo-rah discussions.

Check the error total on guys like Wagner and Vaughan. Over 600 between the two.

If he was in a Red Sox uniform and the Red Sox had his rings, Red Sox fans wouldnt be working so hard to dig these shallow numbers up.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/04/06 09:36 AM

Quote:

I agreed simply because I was getting tired of kicking a deadhorse. Sometimes you just have to move on in discussions.

I think all your number crunchin' is good and all, but it doesnt ultimitly define him as being overrated as a baseball player. Not to many in the Hall, period, that were the best all the way across the board.

Tell you what then. Trash your dewey decimal system and %and show me what SS's had better offensive stats all the way around. Since your a numbers guy, mosey on in to the HOF and get the top 5 SS that are in. Now, take all the main categories offensively and cycle through each player and compare them to Jeter's first 12. Sure, there are a few columns he wont win, but add'em up and they are much better than you think.

It's funny, when you watch Baseball Tonight or hear a respected analyst they dont go into all this work and search and gasbag over these petty numbers you guys bring up. Analysts tend to state the obvious when describing what a ball player, Jeter in this case, means to a ball club. Only Red Sox fans and your typical Yankeehaters get all giddy and happy over these pointpercentage hoo-rah discussions.

Check the error total on guys like Wagner and Vaughan. Over 600 between the two.

If he was in a Red Sox uniform and the Red Sox had his rings, Red Sox fans wouldnt be working so hard to dig these shallow numbers up.




So, let me get this straight. I'm an admitted Red Sox fan who has already agreed that Jeter is an outstanding hitter, leader and clutch player, that he might actually be undervalued as a hitter, and that he clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame, and you're STILL not happy? And all of this is because I pointed out the handful of shortstops who were better hitters and I had the audacity to repeat something countless baseball experts have already said, that Jeter is overrated defensively? And yet I'M the one who has trouble being imparital? Hello kettle, I'm pot. You're black.

Look, if you want to look at nothing but raw counting stats in complete ignorance of the different run-scoring environments in which they were compiled, be my guest. And if you want to rest your defensive case on error totals in absolute ignorance of how defensive players should be evaluated, feel free to keep on living in that dream world too. I'm sure Derek Jeter is the greatest shortstop in the history of the sport in that little alternate universe. And let me guess, all of the other positions are held by Yankees, too.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/04/06 12:36 PM

Right on 1990.

Not a matter of me bein happy. I stood up on the "terrible defensive player" remark.

I see both sides of the statbook. You brought up the statline on percentages and decimals which uses formulas on numerous aspects of the defense game which is helpful when evaluating a player down to the planting of the seed. Most of the guys that you compared him to are HOFers and some were very underrated in their respective time.

And there is no ingnorance on my part. I know there are players who are excellent in one aspect and arent so in other areas. This overrated thing was initially in response to someone saying him being overrated period, as a player. Sure it can be broken down to what it is now, and I can accept that.

The errors thing is just a category I wanted to throw out and see what your response was if I threw out statistical numbers. And, as I expected, you scraped them off as me being ingnorant to your stats. I guess errors dont factor in when evaluating a player. Let me ask you, do the Red Sox have any overrated players?

And no, not all Yankees hold on to that title as best ever. The outfield? Yes. Ruth, Mantle and Joe D. 1st base? Yes. Iron Horse. 3b or SS? Yes. ARod. I could make a pitch for Clemens also on the bump. Hmmmmmm...I could also put Yogi behind the plate if I stretched it out.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/04/06 01:25 PM

Quote:

Right on 1990.

Not a matter of me bein happy. I stood up on the "terrible defensive player" remark.

I see both sides of the statbook. You brought up the statline on percentages and decimals which uses formulas on numerous aspects of the defense game which is helpful when evaluating a player down to the planting of the seed. Most of the guys that you compared him to are HOFers and some were very underrated in their respective time.

And there is no ingnorance on my part. I know there are players who are excellent in one aspect and arent so in other areas. This overrated thing was initially in response to someone saying him being overrated period, as a player. Sure it can be broken down to what it is now, and I can accept that.

The errors thing is just a category I wanted to throw out and see what your response was if I threw out statistical numbers. And, as I expected, you scraped them off as me being ingnorant to your stats. I guess errors dont factor in when evaluating a player. Let me ask you, do the Red Sox have any overrated players?

And no, not all Yankees hold on to that title as best ever. The outfield? Yes. Ruth, Mantle and Joe D. 1st base? Yes. Iron Horse. 3b or SS? Yes. ARod. I could make a pitch for Clemens also on the bump. Hmmmmmm...I could also put Yogi behind the plate if I stretched it out.




Wow, lot's to chew on there. First, of course the Red Sox have overrated players. Jason Varitek, Mike Lowell, Josh Beckett, Coco Crisp, Trot Nixon, and that's just off the top of my head. Schilling wasn't overrated but he is now. My favorite player ever is Jim Rice, and while I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame, I can also recognize that he's overrated in general. It's not a sin to admit that some of the guys on your team aren't really as good as their press clippings.

Two, no, raw error totals should not come into play when evaluating the defensive performances of two guys from completely different eras. Honus Wagner played at a time when the gloves were these crappy leather bubbles and there were rocks - not pebbles, rocks - on every infield. Not too fair to look at his error totals, ya know? And that assumes errors should ever be used, which I firmly believe they shouldn't. Give me the guy who gets to 500 ground balls each year and makes 30 errors over the guy who reaches just 400 while making 15 errors. The second guy will have the better fielding percentage, but he'll be a vastly inferior shortstop.

Three, if you want just raw stats, here you go:

All-Time Shortstop Leaders Through First 12 Years
Games - Cal Ripken (at least 3 others also ahead of Jeter)
At Bats - Luis Aparicio (at least 2 others also ahead of Jeter)
Runs - Jeter, congratulations
Hits - Jeter, congratulations
Doubles - Honus Wagner (at least a dozen guys ahead of Jeter)
Triples - Honus Wagner (dozens ahead of Jeter)
Homers - ARod (at least 5 others ahead of Jeter)
RBI - ARod (at least a dozen ahead of Jeter)
ExBase Hits - ARod (at least 5 others ahead of Jeter)
Steals - Honus Wagner (a dozen or more ahead of Jeter)
Walks - Pee Wee Reese (six others ahead of Jeter)
Total Bases - ARod (at least 3 others ahead of Jeter)
Average - Honus Wagner (at lesat 3 others ahead of Jeter)
On Base % - Vaughan/Wagner tie (plus 4 others ahead of Jeter)
Slugging % - ARod (at least 5 others ahead of Jeter)
OPS - ARod (at least 4 others ahead of Jeter)

So Jeter does manage more hits and runs than any other shortstop, due largely to the fact that he bats at the top of a powerful lineup, but otherwise, multiple shortstops lead him in every other meaningful offensive category. He's obviously in highly respectable company, and to repeat yet again, I think he's an no-brainer first ballot Hall of Famer, but he's NOT the finest offensive shortstop in history. But go ahead and keep claiming that he is if that makes you feel better.

Finally, please tell me you were kidding about the every position a Yankee thing. I'll give you Ruth in right and Gehrig at first. But have you ever heard of a guy named Willie Mays? Pretty good center fielder I hear. You don't mention any left fielder, so does that mean there's room for Ted Williams on your planet? Mike Schmidt at third base? Johnny Bench at catcher? Honus Wagner...oh wait, we've already agreed that Jeter is the greatest shortstop ever in your world. The only spot you didn't mention was second base, so hopefully you're not trying to make a claim for Bobby Richardson or Willie Randolph over Rogers Hornsby. At pitcher, the Red Sox have a better claim on Clemens than New York, and we haven't even discussed Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Greg Maddux, Sandy Koufax, and so on and so on. Sorry, I just don't see it, but if that's your list, I hope Yankeeland turns out to be a fun world for you to live in.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/04/06 04:21 PM

Let me add Clement and Ortiz. Does he even own a glove? Better hope he remains in the American League.

Never once said Jeter was "the finest" SS ever. But he is definitly not "terrible" at it.

Even if Wagner was dodgin' boulders, errors are still used. Come on though, over 600?


Again, while I never said he was the greatest ever I would take being in that class of players. Top 5 in a few and top 10 in others. Alot of great SS have been around since the late 1800's. Let me check again........ Nope, dont think I ever said he was the best. Still wondering why you are still wearing the shirt that says "JHAWX75 says Jeter is the best ever".

I knew you would find the Yankee field somewhat humorous. Ruth and Gehrig are the only ones. Yogi might squeeze in front of Bench. Maybe. Ted would definitly be in the field. Willie also. I'm see'n again where you state that I said Jeter was Mr. Everything. Those silly Red Sox fans! 2nd base all time I was gonna say Cano!

Either way, Roger is in on both teams. Go 'head and claim him yours. Red Sox have always been the bridesmaid. The lil' bro that gets shoeprints on his back. Well, strike that, except for that 2004 colassal colapse. That still stings by the way. Definitly worse than the Boone and Dent circus.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/04/06 05:21 PM

Quote:

Let me add Clement and Ortiz. Does he even own a glove? Better hope he remains in the American League.

Never once said Jeter was "the finest" SS ever. But he is definitly not "terrible" at it.

Even if Wagner was dodgin' boulders, errors are still used. Come on though, over 600?


Again, while I never said he was the greatest ever I would take being in that class of players. Top 5 in a few and top 10 in others. Alot of great SS have been around since the late 1800's. Let me check again........ Nope, dont think I ever said he was the best. Still wondering why you are still wearing the shirt that says "JHAWX75 says Jeter is the best ever".

I knew you would find the Yankee field somewhat humorous. Ruth and Gehrig are the only ones. Yogi might squeeze in front of Bench. Maybe. Ted would definitly be in the field. Willie also. I'm see'n again where you state that I said Jeter was Mr. Everything. Those silly Red Sox fans! 2nd base all time I was gonna say Cano!

Either way, Roger is in on both teams. Go 'head and claim him yours. Red Sox have always been the bridesmaid. The lil' bro that gets shoeprints on his back. Well, strike that, except for that 2004 colassal colapse. That still stings by the way. Definitly worse than the Boone and Dent circus.




Clement was overrated when he signed his contract, but not anymore. Now every Red Sox fan in the world knows he sucks. And I wouldn't say Ortiz is overrated because I think everyone already downgrades his overall performance because of the DH thing. In fact, that already cost him an MVP in 2005 when many voters said they simply couldn't vote for a DH. Doesn't sound like he's overrated to me.

Maybe I misread your comments about Jeter's offense. I thought you said I would be hard-pressed to find any shortstop in history with better offensive numbers across the board in their first dozen seasons. To me that sounds like you think he's the best-hitting shortstop ever, at least through a dozen years. If that wasn't your intent, my apologies.

My "terrible" comment had nothing to do with his offense and everything to do with his defense. My definition of "terrible" includes stuff like finishing dead last in the league among your peers in something, as Jeter did in range on a couple of occasions. I'm sorry, but those are the facts. Maybe you want to use a different word or phrase that's not as inflammatory, like "subpar" or "below average" or "trailing the pack", but "good" or "great" or "Gold-Glove-caliber" simply don' fit. He's now better than he used to be, solidly average defensively, but that doesn't make him worthy of any Gold Gloves. Anyone who claims he's the best defensive shortstop in the league, as the Gold Gloves certainly imply, is overrating his defense by a good stretch.

If you want to include raw error totals when evaluating Wagner's defense, be my guest, but not putting them in context is just wrong. That's like saying that Bonds' 73 homers are the best ever without ever mentioning the steroids, the longer season, the smaller parks, the tighter baseballs, the watered down pitching, etc. Be fair. Wagner had high error totals at a time when EVERYONE had high error totals. He was actually much more sure-handed than his peers. His career fielding percentage as a shortstop was 13 percentage points higher than the league average, compared to Jeter's being just three percentage points better than the league average. Wagner's range was incredible compared to his peers, nearly 9% better than league average for his entire career, even with his older years included when he was a regular shortstop all the way up to age 41. Jeter, even with his recent resurgence, still has a career range factor about 1% lower then league average. Wagner, on average, fielded 5.6 chances per game for his career as a shortstop, while Jeter has handled just 4.1, meaning Wagner fielded nearly 40% more chances per game during his career. If you're looking at just that high error total and drawing the conclusion that Honus Wagner was a poor defensive shortstop, you're just wrong.

As far as the little brother complex goes, bear in mind that the Yankee Dynasty didn't begin until crappy Sox ownership sold you all of Boston's good players from five World Championship teams, Ruth included. Every Yankee fan out there should be thanking the Red Sox for their good fortune. Allow me to just offer you a preemptive "You're Welcome" and call it good.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/04/06 05:54 PM

I thought you said I would be hard-pressed to find any shortstop in history with better offensive numbers across the board
__________________________________________________________

Na, never said that.

While Ortiz is a heavy hitter, and a damn good one, he doesnt even give people the chance to argue him as a complete ball player. He doesnt give anyone a chance to bring up anything on defense cause the guy doesnt play it. That's why I refer to him as overrated as a ball player. Sure, hitting he is a monster and, to me, the best in the game(ahead of Pujols IMO). But anyone that doesnt put on a glove and do the dirty work on defense isnt even on the cusp of discussing. Example: No National League team would want David Ortiz. Period. Take the shallow DH rule out of the AL and Ortiz would be out of a job.

If finishing "dead last" in one category for a few seasons, as you say, defines you as being terrible, then how hard is it to just be average?

Why do you misconstrue my words, nobody said Wagner was a poor defensive shortstop. You did. I made a very sarcastic comment on the "boulder" thing. I know what Wagner did in his day.

Alot of teams have benefited off of other teams mistakes. Happens all the time. And I do thank the Sox. For their ignorance. Or greed, or whatever it was that landed in their drink the day of that massacre of a decision. Ruth was only the beginning. Splinter would of been a Yankee also if Boston didnt ask for Berra along with Joe D.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/04/06 07:20 PM

Quote:

I thought you said I would be hard-pressed to find any shortstop in history with better offensive numbers across the board
__________________________________________________________

Na, never said that...




But you did say, "...How bout doin some homework and postin other SS percentages and they're offensive stats and see where they end up. Like i said, thru 12 years Cal is the only SS who is in Jeter's stat category", which sounds awfully close.

Quote:

If finishing "dead last" in one category for a few seasons, as you say, defines you as being terrible, then how hard is it to just be average?




It's pretty ahrd to be an average major leaguer in anything. There's a lot of area between terrible and average. If you're dead last, you're terrible. If you're not last but close, you're bad. If you're below average but no by much, you're just below average, etc. That's my definition and I apply it universally. (e.g. Matt Clement is a terrible pitcher. Bengie Molina is a terrible baserunner.) Your definition obviously varies. It it makes you feel better, I'll be more specific. Jeter wasn't, all-around, a terrible defensive shortstop. But his range certainly was. He's improved that to average, for whatever reason, so kudos to him.

Quote:

Why do you misconstrue my words, nobody said Wagner was a poor defensive shortstop. You did. I made a very sarcastic comment on the "boulder" thing. I know what Wagner did in his day.




No offense, but saying "Wagner made 600 errors" without putting it in context sure as hell implies that you think he was a bad defender.

So, all that said, where do you rank Jeter all-time? It's a bit early, which gives him an advantage since he hasn't had any declining years yet to drag his averages down, but at the moment I'd say it looks something like this:

Wagner
Ripken
Vaughan
Banks
Yount
Larkin
Trammell
Cronin
Jeter

I think Jeter has at least 3-4 more years left at his current rate of productivity, and that would move him up pretty far, easily into the top five. For me, he would still be behind the top three unless he puts up about five more years like 2006. The wild card is ARod, who, if you count him as a shortstop, is better than all of them with the possible exception of Wagner. But I suspect he'll be considered a third baseman before he's done because I don't see him moving back to short even if he changes teams.
Posted by: Swoosh24

Re: Yankees. - 12/04/06 10:15 PM

go red sox!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 02:45 PM

As an all around player I would put him behind Banks.

I would rank Cal ahead of Wagner though. Era's were madd different and I think it was tougher for Cal to pave those types of numbers than for Wagner. Cal revolutionized the SS position IMO.

ARod would of been the best all around SS ever.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 03:28 PM

Quote:

As an all around player I would put him behind Banks.

I would rank Cal ahead of Wagner though. Era's were madd different and I think it was tougher for Cal to pave those types of numbers than for Wagner. Cal revolutionized the SS position IMO.

ARod would of been the best all around SS ever.




I can deal with that placement for Jeter. Maybe not right this minute, but in a couple-three years, that seems about right.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 03:45 PM

And yeah, that placement was by the end of his career.

Speaking on the Sox for a moment, I was watching the tube last night and they played a clip when Dave Henderson went yard against the California Angels in '86. Then showed the 9th inning game 6 meltdown against the Mets. For years I never really understood what it felt like to have a slow death like the Red Sox faced, then 2004 came.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 04:02 PM

Quote:

And yeah, that placement was by the end of his career.

Speaking on the Sox for a moment, I was watching the tube last night and they played a clip when Dave Henderson went yard against the California Angels in '86. Then showed the 9th inning game 6 meltdown against the Mets. For years I never really understood what it felt like to have a slow death like the Red Sox faced, then 2004 came.




Welcome to the club!! Now if you can only have another half dozen of those moments over the course of 80+ years before the Yanks win their next title. I don't ask for much.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 06:57 PM

2001 was one of those. Sandman on the bump in the bottom of the ninth with a 1 run lead. I wanted to break Gonzo's nose with that little judy he hit to win it. Whatever it takes though I guess. I remember they put in Womack to pinch run and he ended up scoring. Reminded me of Game 4 or 5 of 2004 when Boston put the fast dude in to pinch run and ended up scorin. I think on a judy hit by Ortiz(not sure).
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 07:23 PM

Hawk 1990, can you find those stats on the net or are they from Mr. James?
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 07:24 PM

Quote:

2001 was one of those. Sandman on the bump in the bottom of the ninth with a 1 run lead. I wanted to break Gonzo's nose with that little judy he hit to win it. Whatever it takes though I guess. I remember they put in Womack to pinch run and he ended up scoring. Reminded me of Game 4 or 5 of 2004 when Boston put the fast dude in to pinch run and ended up scorin. I think on a judy hit by Ortiz(not sure).




Two different games, one with a pinch runner, one with a judy hit. Game 4 was the one with the pinch-runner (Dave Roberts), who stole second and scored on a solid single from Bill Mueller to tie the game in the 9th. The cheap hit from Ortiz was in Game 5, when he hit a broken bat blooper into center to score Damon and win it in the 14th. Both burned eternally into my memory.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 07:33 PM

Quote:

Hawk 1990, can you find those stats on the net or are they from Mr. James?




Go to Baseball-Reference.com. Absolutely indispensable. Here's the Jeter page, and here's the Wagner page.
Posted by: tulsahawk13

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 07:47 PM

Great stuff, thanks a lot. I tried telling 75 the same thing about Jeter not too long ago on the MVP thread but he doesn't like to hear it.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 07:54 PM

Quote:

Great stuff, thanks a lot. I tried telling 75 the same thing about Jeter not too long ago on the MVP thread but he doesn't like to hear it.




On that subject I'll say this; I don't think Derek Jeter was the MVP of the AL this year, but if his only competition was Justin Morneau, Jeter should have won it. I don't think Morneau was the MVT (Most Valuable Twin), let alone MVP.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 07:55 PM

Really?


Quote:

"As much as I hate to say it, Jeter probably deserves it at this point, he's had a career year".

Signed,
tulsahawk13
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 08:04 PM

Who shoould of?
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 08:09 PM

Joe Mauer. Better numbers across the board at a harder position to play for a team that would have been utterly dead in the water without him. Jeter would probably be next on my list, but the kind of numbers Mauer put up as a catcher are damned impressive.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/05/06 08:11 PM

Right on.

Mauer was on point this year.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/10/06 09:16 AM

Pettitte back in stripes.

Uh-Oh, can you hear Roger's clock........tick tock, tick tock.

Roger wanted to win one for Houston before retiring but the time for him has come. Come home, Roger. Come back to the team who helped you solidify your career and not only will be the modern day Murderers Row with the bats, but who could possibly possess the best rotation in MLB with you on board.

Where else you goin', Boston? Look at their rotation, suspect. Beckett is overrated. Schilling's best is WAY behind him. Clement is a bust. Pappelbon is not proven as a starter. And DMat is about to suck their wallet up without even stepping foot on american soil.

Why go through that chaotic mess in Boston or stay with Houston, who is going nowhere, when you could come back home to get ring #3.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 12/10/06 10:49 AM

Amen my Yankee brother!! I wish Pettitte would have never left, but I am very happy he is back. And that does give us a leg up for signing the Rocket. And it looks like Boston won't even sign DMat!!
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 12/10/06 04:20 PM

Quote:

Pettitte back in stripes.

Uh-Oh, can you hear Roger's clock........tick tock, tick tock.

Roger wanted to win one for Houston before retiring but the time for him has come. Come home, Roger. Come back to the team who helped you solidify your career and not only will be the modern day Murderers Row with the bats, but who could possibly possess the best rotation in MLB with you on board.

Where else you goin', Boston? Look at their rotation, suspect. Beckett is overrated. Schilling's best is WAY behind him. Clement is a bust. Pappelbon is not proven as a starter. And DMat is about to suck their wallet up without even stepping foot on american soil.

Why go through that chaotic mess in Boston or stay with Houston, who is going nowhere, when you could come back home to get ring #3.




Come home Roger? He is home but you could make an argument for Boston. Toronto was for the money and New York was for a ring. Yanks can have Pettite and his 6+ era. Staring to look desperate in Yankee land.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/10/06 07:15 PM

Home is where the rings are.

Pettitte will be revived in NY.

And what up with the DMat dude in Boston? Big money he was askin for.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 12/10/06 07:31 PM

Quote:

Home is where the rings are.

Pettitte will be revived in NY.

And what up with the DMat dude in Boston? Big money he was askin for.




Tell that to Ernie Banks. Mr. Cub has no rings and would not want to play anywhere else.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 12/10/06 07:45 PM

And i'm sure Dan Marino would say the same.

But my "home" reference was towards the Yankees.
Posted by: SuperMario726

Re: Yankees. - 12/10/06 11:27 PM

The Red Sox rotation has the potential to be one of the most intriguing and top line rotations in baseball. Everyone who knows the Red Sox knows Schilling wants to go out on top, not to mention Beckett showed his brilliance through at times in the season and now has had time to adjust to AL, then theres Papelbon who wasnt supposed to close last year but turned out to be one of the best in the business flat out dominating for a rookie. DMat is a predicted number 1 or 2 but with this rotation the most he'll have to be is a number 3 and should be able to find success and then to close the rotation theres always the dependable Tim Wakefield. You arent getting a brilliant pitcher in TW but you know you're getting innings and quality starts from the knuckleballer. I wouldnt exactly say the situation in Boston is "chaotic"
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 12/11/06 04:34 PM

I would love for Rocket to finish as a Rsock and stick it to the Yankees. I think in the minds of most (with exception of Yankee fan) he is and will forver be a Red Sox pitcher. I know this is not likely but I guy can dream and hey anything is possible just look at my Royals who might actually field a team worth watching. Who woulda thunk it.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 01/16/07 05:21 PM

Rocket will be a Yankee.

2008 All Star game at Yankee Stadium. Glad they are hosting it before YS is vacant. Madd memories in that ballpark. The pinetar incident. Mr. October. Boones tater in '03. However, with good, there is some bad. Red Sox winning games 6 and 7 in '04 to be specific. Johnny hittin that GS sits the most. ARod's ballslap was a downer also. Oh well. The highs definitly outweigh the lows.

Big ups to MLB for finalizing Yankee Stadium in 2008. Well, probably not finalizing since that will actually be in late October.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 01/16/07 05:39 PM

Quote:

Rocket will be a Yankee.

2008 All Star game at Yankee Stadium. Glad they are hosting it before YS is vacant. Madd memories in that ballpark. The pinetar incident. Mr. October. Boones tater in '03. However, with good, there is some bad. Red Sox winning games 6 and 7 in '04 to be specific. Johnny hittin that GS sits the most. ARod's ballslap was a downer also. Oh well. The highs definitly outweigh the lows.

Big ups to MLB for finalizing Yankee Stadium in 2008. Well, probably not finalizing since that will actually be in late October.




Well I hope you are wrong about Rocket and Yankee stadium does not host another winning playoff team or WS for a very very very very long time.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 01/22/07 02:38 PM

and Yankee stadium does not host another winning playoff team or WS for a very very very very long time.
_______________________________________________________

Ohhhh, now you know that wont happen. You Red Sock fans are too much!
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 01/25/07 07:13 AM

Sorry man NOT a Red Sox fan. As far as I am concerned they can fall into the same abyss the Yankees do. GO ROYALS!!!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 01/25/07 08:28 AM

Oops, sorry.

Do you think the Royals overpaid for Gil?
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 01/26/07 11:15 PM

Yes. Everybody overpays now. The arms race was started long ago by teams like the Yanks and Sox which I don't think has been or is good for the game IMO. However, just for the record I can't stand the Yankees in general and money is just one of many reasons why.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 01/28/07 12:34 PM

Royals did overpay, but they need to take more risks like that. Maybe not with a unproven taleent like Meche but atleaast that kind of money.

I understand how easy it would be to hate the Yankees. Even if there was a salary cap, Yankees would still be hated. But that mainly has to with winning. I'm a N.O Saints fan and a New Orleans Hornets fan. Being a Yankees fan is alot different than any of those. With those teams you hope. With the Yankees you expect. But I dont take that "my sh-t dont stink" attitude like some of the Yankees fans do. Look, I could come up with 10 reasons why Yankees are hated, maybe more. Bottom line is Yankees are hated and loved for overspending.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 01/28/07 06:21 PM

I am in the same boat. I am a Cowboys fan which is essentially the Yankees with pigskins so I understand exactly what you mean. It is pretty much a love them or hate them proposition with teams like the Cowboys, Yankees, or in an individual sport Tiger Woods.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/02/07 11:41 PM

Welcome back my baseball ballers! Another season is upon us and it's good to be talking baseball again.

while the Yankees struggled with the Devil Rays, it was good to see a decent outing by Pavano. They definitly need him to pick up this rotation this year. Looks a little shady to me. Pettitte, Wang and and newcomer Kei Igawa all will be tryin to pick up a rhythem in the Bronx. ARod needs to grow some balls in the burro. Take on Reggies attitude! Losing Sheffield sucked. He'll knock 30 plus and drive in maybe 100 for the Tigers. Abreu is the important piece this year. Look for Wang to have a chance at a Cy Young award. We'll see though. Giambi will get his. Cano is the man. And Jeter just needs to be his normal self and do what he did last year. Glad the Royals beat the Red Sox to kick off the season. Got tickets for that Dice K circus Thursday.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 04/03/07 12:44 PM

Rock on Yankees!!! Good start yesterday, Pavano was solid, just about all NY could ask from him.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/03/07 02:14 PM

Yankees have ruined the sport I used to love. Great for Yankee fans, terrible for everyone else.
Enjoy all your championships, they are meaningless, totally meaningless.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 08:12 AM

Amazing how ONE franchise is tagged with "ruining" baseball. Ask Detroit, Anahiem(L.A), Red Sox, Florida and Arizona if they care who the Yankees had on their teams. Bottom line is the Yankees havent won squat since '01 and people still say they "ruined" baseball. Rejoice Yankeehaters, rejoice! Dont confuse payroll with players. Payroll: Yankees overspend every year, no question. Players: look up and down the rosters of ALL teams that will be contending this year and you will find that even their lineups are sprinkled with players that came from other teams. Hate'em cause of Steinbrenner. Hate'em cause your squad stinks. But dont hate'em cause a team is in a position every year to contend for a title. Isnt that why the game is played?
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 08:58 AM

Yes I blame the overspending on the Yankees. They may not win it every year, only because they make lousy player aquisitions. Randy Johnson? terrible move, cost millions.
Overspending does not quarantee championships, but it does let you compete, and the Yankees are competitive every year, which is something most of the major leagues can't do.
Must be nice to be able to have a player like Jeter. Develope him, and keep him for as long as you wish. Most teams can only develope talent, and then deal him to a contender when the market has him overpriced.
Yes I blame the Yankees. They created this mess. They may not win it all, but they can afford to always have a chance every year.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 09:27 AM

Yankees are opposed to baseball having a world draft. A world draft would pool all the players from Latin America and Japan in the amature draft. As it is now, the Yankees can go down to Latin America and throw millions at a 16 year old prospect, and hope he developes (Mariano Rivera). They can go to Japan and bid against just a few of the big spenders for talent.
Maybe having this unfair advantage is the only way the Yankees can stay competitive.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 09:47 AM

Were you aware that there is no salary cap in baseball? Yankees are playing well within the rules that have been around for decades. If they didnt pay Jeter someone else would. Even if they grow their talent and keep them the Yankees still get criticized for paying him madd dollars. Why let farm grown talent bail cause you lost your wallet? Sure they overspend, i'm the first one to vent madd criticism cause of that problem. But what do you do as a fan? Shake your head and hope it materializes and doesnt inplode. I'm fully in agreement with you though on overspending.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 10:48 AM

I wish there was a salary cap, and a minimum amount as well. I understand that the Yankees have to spend insane money in order to retain talent such as Jeter. That is a problem that I blame them for creating.
You know your baseball, you're lucky enough to have a team that is in the club of the "haves". Surely you recognize the uneven playing field that has been created. The game will not be legit until each team has a equal chance at the beginning of the season. That is not the case today.
Revenue sharing has helped some, but baseball needs to divide up the t.v. money. Steinbrenner rakes in the cash from the YES network, just by the mear fact his team is in N.Y.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 11:56 AM

The fact that there is no salary cap is the reason for this discussion. Period. Doesnt sound like a Yankees issue. More like a MLB issue. What was people's complaints when they grew their own talent in the 20's-60's and ruled baseball with more rings than Liberace? Dont get it twisted, Yankees were born before George and will live after George.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 12:22 PM

Before George started his selfish spending, people still loved to hate the Yankees. They hated them because they were better, they were better at running their organization, not because they spent more. Teams could compete with the Yankees if they had a solid front office. I could handle getting beat by them like the old days, when the financial playing field was even.
The need for a salary cap is a Yankee issue, they're the reason baseball needs a cap, they're the biggest offender of overspending.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 01:48 PM

Deadhorse. Even with a cap they still would be hated. Might as well dillute the clubs of their talent and put those players on a winning team with a chance. Get over the cap issue. For every Giambi, ARod and Abreu signing there is a Cano, Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettitte and Rivera in the farm ready to wear pinstripes.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 02:21 PM

Agreed, this is a deadhorse, so I'll make one last comment. I am over the cap issue, I've resigned myself to the fact that baseball is broken and may never be fixed. Baseball is basically an 8 team league at best, the rest are in existance to give the large market teams another team to fill the schedule with and to develope talent, for them to use in the future.
So go ahead Yankee fans, get excited over your championship runs, they don't mean a thing, they never will. Until other teams are allowed a even playing field, the World Series trophy is just a hunk of tin.
Posted by: thanksforcoming

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 02:32 PM

I don't understand why people get pissed when teams spend money to win. The last time I looked, Major League Baseball was a business, and good businesses spend money. Every team is a business, some businesses not as successful as the others. The business with the most money, which is what professional sports is about, should have the chance to win every year. If the yankees ruined baseball, then they ruined it when they over paid Boston for Babe Ruth. In fact, that probably saved baseball. You Red Sox fans still have a franchise you can cheer for becasue the Yankees over spent on the Babe and kept the Beantown team afloat. Just another reason to be thankful for the Yankees. Not to mention all the national Icons they have produced. Baseball is back.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 03:09 PM

Baseball is a business, each team being a franchise, not a seperate business. They compete against each, yet they need each other in order to survive.
Baseball needs to take a page from both the NFL and the NBA, salary caps and revenue sharing. Give eveyone a chance to be competitive. These sports realize they are one business. The NFL is a business, the NBA is a business, they all have franchises that depend on each other to be successful.
I have nothing against a team spending money, but do it without making a mockery of the competitive balance.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 06:28 PM

I hate the Yankees more every year. Good to be a Yankee hater because Yankee fans want to be loved so bad they just can't stand it. Kind of like Duke fans. Easy to hate hard to love.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/04/07 10:59 PM

Easy to hate a winner, isnt it! Especially when your a Royals fan! Bill Russell even says we have too many rings!
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 08:22 AM

I like that, Duke fans = Yankee fans. Both have a since of entitlement. Only difference, Duke has respect for the game wheras Yankees have no problem doing harm to the game for their own interests.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 09:13 AM

"Duke has respect for the game"

You sound like KryZOOski after Henderson threw his Dusty Rhodes elbow!
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 09:47 AM

No harm, only hit a tarhole.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 10:07 AM

Typical shallow,hater response!
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 11:03 AM

Shallow Tarhole and Yankee hater from cradle to grave.
Posted by: thanksforcoming

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 11:18 AM

How do the Yankees disrespect the game. I'm pretty sure that the franchise is the model franchise of MLB. If everyone of those owners could spend money like Steinbrenner, they would. Get over it. And I'm not asking to be loved because I'm a Yankees fan, they are just the best, year in and year out. The cardinals won't even be in teh hunt this year. One hit wonder, what about the Red Sox. One hit wonder. The D-backs, one hit wonders. Name a team that is in the hunt year after year after year. If it takes money to get to that level, so be it. Nobody said the Roayls or anyone else for that matter couldn't spend that much money. The Yankees fill the stands every game, that's where their money copmes from, and that tradition started a long time ago. Fill the stands, pay the players, win mulitple world series, then tell me how you feel about your team, and I will be you saying, "They spend too much money, It's not fair, the Royals ruined th game." C'mon man, argument over. Thanks for coming.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 12:41 PM

The Yankees have almost single handely destroyed the competitive balance of MLB. By spending the way only a few can.
You say every owner would spend money like Steinbrenner if they could, well the can't. Most teams would lose money if they spent like the Yankees. Steinbrenner wouldn't spend like he does if it meant he would lose money, why would you expect the others to do so.
I won't argue with you that the Yankees are consistantly the best team every year. Well they should be, it's not because they are great at developing talent, it's because they can write large checks. REAL IMPRESSIVE.
Yes, the Yankees draw a crowd, they averaged 51,000. If you think that is their major source of cash comes from, you're wrong. The Yankees cash cow comes from T.V. The Yankees draw huge sums of cash from the Yes network. Small market teams can have standing room only crowds for every game of the season, and still they will not be able to compete with the Yankees.
It's all about the money. MLB needs to wake up, and run it's league like the NFL and the NBA. Now of course I don't expect a Yankees fan to want a fair playing field, they are after all the equivilant of the Harlem Globetrottrers vs the Washington Generals.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 01:29 PM

alright jamma, their are some who just want to talk baseball and stats regardless of who they hate and their are the others who are just way too channeled in on that bottle of haterade. You, unfortunaly, are the latter. Look, I hate the Red Sox but atleast I can hold an intelligent conversation about the game itself. I cant stand their players but I know ManRam is a baddass SOB. Same with Ortiz! You think the Yankees are above water cause of the YES network? Sure it's a part of their income but how bout checking MLB merchandise and see what team is bigballin'! Check those hats you seen a few of our KU players wearing. You dont have to be a fan to sport a Yankee hat, bottom line is the colors are what some like. Matter of fact the Yankees were a hot team for merchandise before teams like the Royals were swingin in the MLB nutsac! Let me check..... yep the Yankees WERE around before the YES network. That channel could get taken over by a pack of bald midgets, turn into a circus channel and they would STILL be around. The Yankees built baseball. You think the gate at Kauffman Stadium is packed more when the _______(insert team) are in town or the Yankees? .....Waiting.......!Thought so! It's fun to needle haters who cant even bring nothing good to a subject. How would you view a guy like Mariano Rivera or Bernie Williams or even Derek Jeter if they were grown from your teams farm? If Sandman had over 400 saves for your squad would you still live with strife? By the way, who in bluehaiti's is your team jamma?
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 02:09 PM

Sorry I hijacked your thread and turned it into a I Hate the Yankees thread, I really prefer to talk about the game on the field, but this forum is giving me the chance to vent.
I do not dispute for one second that the Yankees are the most storied franchise of all sports of all time, no argument at all. Everytime I go to Kauffman stadium when the Yankees are there, it is full, and I realize it is because of the Yankee mystic. Their fanbase is rivaled by none.
My point all along has been not that the Yankees don't field a great team, because they do, my point is the Yankees are able to field that team, not because they they can develope talent, but that they have more resources that are not available to others that allows them to do so.
I would love to have Bernie Williams, Rivera, and Jeter. My team the Royals never had a chance to get them other than Jeter. Wiliams, and Rivera were never in the free agent draft, they were given a huge bonus as teenagers out of Latin America. Small market teams can't afford the kind of risk.
Do you oppose the following;
1. Salary cap (NFL and NBA have)
2. World draft
3. T.V. revenue sharing

BTW, I've been a Royals fan since '69.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/05/07 09:50 PM

Quote:

Easy to hate a winner, isnt it! Especially when your a Royals fan! Bill Russell even says we have too many rings!




Who am a fan of has nothing to do with hating the Yankees. I just hate them and most of what they represent in todays game. They only people blind to it are Yankee fans like yourself. Next thing you know you are going to try and tell me Jeter is the greatest SS ever....oh yeah we already had that argument. The thickness of your blinders are....well blinding.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/06/07 08:27 AM

But yet you would be all for ARod joining the Royals. Sounds like you arent too worried about his payroll huh? Stop foolin yourself, if you had a owner who spent just a little money you would be all for paying a couple of superstars so the gate would be busy. Glad to see D.Moore step in and drop some loot. And not this again....You and this "greatest" SS topic! Is that the only thing you hang your hat on when on here? Where in the bluehell did I ever say he was the greatest ever? My front page on that was his leadership, expierence and how his offensive numbers compared to HOFers right now. You haterz spin that ball of yarn around pretty good dont you? And I dont have blinders on 01, cant even afford curtains. But I can hold a baseball conversation about baseball. How bout lets reflect back on Murders Row. Or maybe you just want to chime in on the poor poor Yankees of the 80's and early 90's. Maybe you just want to play a game of "lets count the rings", thats always fun! Or maybe we can play lets build the ALL Time Greatest Team and see how many pinstripes are are playin'. Bottom line is, I can play to any level you want. If you want to sit and cry about baseball's payroll and "woe is my team, waa waa waa" then I would love to needle you all day. But I prefer to talk about baseball the game!
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/06/07 08:28 AM

I'd say Jeter is the best offensive SS of his day, but no way defensivly, and no way the best all time.
Posted by: gquinn225

Re: Yankees. - 04/06/07 09:12 AM

Quote:

I'd say Jeter is the best offensive SS of his day, but no way defensivly, and no way the best all time.




I just taggged this reply b/c it was shorter. He didn't reply to your other one did he? Or was it in the other post and I missed it?
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/06/07 11:01 AM

You are listeneing to the arguments, nobody is denying the fact that the Yankees are great, no can deny the fact that they are the most storied franchise ever. We're jealous.
Most of us hate the Yankees because they take advantage of the lousy way MLB runs it's business. I'd love it if the Glass family could keep pace with Steinbrenner, I wish everyone could. Fact is they can't. If they spent the way the Yankees did, they would lose money. Answer this question, Do you think Steinbrenner would spend like he does, if he lost money? Why do you expect the other owners to?
Hope you're enjoying Johnny Damon, you guys did a great job developing him. Wish he was still a Royal, even though he throws like a 12 year old girl.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/06/07 11:41 AM

Looks like some people have suffered from a bad case of amnesia and tend to only focus on the moment. Your basically saying the Yankees have never developed players. Look up guys like Pettitte, Jeter, Williams, Rivera, Posada, Cano, Cabrera and even Soriano. Williams spent 6 years getting developed. Jeter 4. Rivera 5. Posada 5. Pettitte 4. This was the core that jump started the four titles in the mid 90's. But you probably wouldnt recognize those players cause that would be too much for most of you. I wish Soriano would of stayed and ARod never came. But then Cano may have never been to move up, so it worked out. I'm not a Damon fan. He could of stayed in KC for all I care. Or Boston. Or Oakland. But face it, even if NY grew their own players from the draft or signed someone from foreign soil all you would still waaa and moan!
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/06/07 12:55 PM

If I said the Yankees can never develope player, that would be wrong, they have. They have developed players that they have used their financial advantage to aquire. The players you gave as examples were, Cano, ARod, Rivera, Posada, Cabrera, Soriano, Williams, Jeter, Pettitte. Of those nine players only two were aquired through the amature draft. Had there been a world draft, you may not have had any of them. Cano, Rivera, Posada, Cabrera, Soriano, Williams, were all given million dollar bonuses. The Yankees can gamble on these 17 year old latins, if they flame out in the minors, no big deal, it was just Yankee chump change.
I'll give the Yankees credit for getting them major league ready, they do a good job in that area, but they do have an advantage in obtaining them.
Jeter and Pettitte were good amature draft picks, I have no complaint whatsoever with them. ARod, you know the story, wrote him a check, no developement skill there.
Just answer two questions for me;
1. Would Steinbrenner spend like he does if it meant he would lose money?
2. Would you be in favor of a world draft?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/06/07 04:36 PM

Again, submit figures of these million dollar retainer fees they gave these individuals and how they outbidded every single team for their rights. How many Latin players are in the league? Out of all them total how many are superstars? Should these teams that scouted and signed these individuals(V. Guerrerro, Pujols, ManRam, Ortiz etc.) be scrutinized and hated cause they signed foreign players? Bottom line is foreign players are being signed every year. But because it's the Yankees people feel it's wrong. And just because you obtain a players rights doesnt mean he is gonna be a superstar. The kid still needs to prove himself in the minors. And remember, ARod made stops in Seattle and Texas before NY. Dont forget Texas made the lucrative contract that ARod gets criticized for. Matter of fact Texas will be payin part of that contract(around 8 million)for the next 3 years.

1. No owner is in this buisness to lose money. So no he wouldnt. But thats like sayin would Trump still be in Real-Estate if he was losin money. Fact is, he's not!

2. There will never be a world draft. No world draft! Get your scouts on the hustle and make your own trail. Plus, since it would be dificult to move up in the farm with a team like the Yankees, if a foreign kid was smart he would sign with a doormat team like the Royals, work his way up to the bigs and get noticed in free agency. He would be around 20-21 and ready to sign a huge deal with an elite team ready to pay him.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/08/07 08:51 PM

The Royals and every other team do scout internationally, K.C. even scouts South Africa now. If there is talent on this earth, MLB will sniff it out.
Before I get started on signing bonuses paid out to foreign free agents, I want to stand corrected concerning Mariano Rivera. He was one of the many Latin players that received a small signing bonus and then made it big. I believe his bonus was between $2-$3000.
Some of this information is hard to come by, but I found a clearinghouse and found signing bonuses of some of the top Yankees prospects and a couple of players on the roster.
Jesus Montero, Venezula 2,000,000
Jose Tabata, Venezula 555,000
Juan Miranda, Cuba 500,000
Chien-Ming Wang, Taiwan 1,900,000
Kei Igawa, Japan 26,000,194 for negotiating rights

Now, can you honestly think, most teams can afford to get into that kind of a bidding war? Put them in the draft, and give everyone a shot.
You gave Pujols as a example, he was in fact in the amature draft. I believe he may have been a 13th round pick.

I'm glad to see you don't expect Steinbrenner to lose money, I don't understand why you're o.k. with owners losing money if they want to keep pace with his payroll.

Do you believe MLB system is better for competition than what the NFL and NBA has?
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/08/07 09:22 PM

Quote:

But yet you would be all for ARod joining the Royals. Sounds like you arent too worried about his payroll huh? Stop foolin yourself, if you had a owner who spent just a little money you would be all for paying a couple of superstars so the gate would be busy. Glad to see D.Moore step in and drop some loot. And not this again....You and this "greatest" SS topic! Is that the only thing you hang your hat on when on here? Where in the bluehell did I ever say he was the greatest ever? My front page on that was his leadership, expierence and how his offensive numbers compared to HOFers right now. You haterz spin that ball of yarn around pretty good dont you? And I dont have blinders on 01, cant even afford curtains. But I can hold a baseball conversation about baseball. How bout lets reflect back on Murders Row. Or maybe you just want to chime in on the poor poor Yankees of the 80's and early 90's. Maybe you just want to play a game of "lets count the rings", thats always fun! Or maybe we can play lets build the ALL Time Greatest Team and see how many pinstripes are are playin'. Bottom line is, I can play to any level you want. If you want to sit and cry about baseball's payroll and "woe is my team, waa waa waa" then I would love to needle you all day. But I prefer to talk about baseball the game!




Dude you are hilarious. First of all I brought up the Jeter thing as sarcasm but I can talk any level of baseball you want as well. Lets not pretend you are the only baseball fan on here. I was probably watching baseball before you were a gleam in Mamma's eye so let's not get snippy. Now where did I say whoa is my team....yeah right never brought it up so let's keep the straw men in the closet. Seems to me the only one getting needled is you since all you do is see Yankee pinstripes everytime wants to talk about the Yankees in anything other than glowing terms. Face it some people right or wrong hate the Yankees and like it or not is one of the reasons the are so popular. Kind of like the Dallas Cowboys. Love them or hate them kind of thing. Now would I love Arod as a Royal sure I would. At least he would be playing SS and be back where he belongs....being the best SS in the game today. Frankly, I would like Jeter, Pettite, Arod, and company ALL to play for anybody BUT the Yankees. Now onto a real baseball discussion. Your Yankees look to be in real trouble just like their NL counterparts the Cardinals. Pitching, Pitching, and Pitching wins pennants and both teams at least early on look pretty shaky.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/08/07 09:28 PM

Quote:

I'd say Jeter is the best offensive SS of his day, but no way defensivly, and no way the best all time.




Jeter is nowhere near the best SS of his time. He is not event he best SS on his team. To find the best offensive SS look to Jeters right and see A-rod. Defensively, Omar V is heads and shoulder above A-rod or Jeter. What Jeter IS is a hard nose, gritty winner especially in the clutch. (Don't tell certain Yankees guys on here I said that...I have a rep to uphold regarding Jeter and the Yankees in general)
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 10:03 AM

You beat the Jeter thing to the ground. Why, I have no idea! Only cause maybe you wanted to be part of the discussion and start out your chime wearing your emotions on your keyboard. It's cool though, knowing that the same guy you start out by bashing would be the same guy you would be rooting for if he was on your team. Catch 22 cause of the jersey? Wow! Again, never said Jeter was the greatest. You probably like Mark Teahan but god forbid if he signed with the Yankees as a FA in the future, what would you say then. Or Alex Gordon. Those two are a few years away from gettin' plucked by the Yanks!
Pitching has been suspect. Nothing I didnt figure in though. Igawa is overhyped. Fastball in the 80's. Breaking ball with no location. Runnung pitch counts to 2-0 way to many times. Recipe for destruction. Mussina got rocked. Pettitte didnt look the same. Pavano is unproven as a Yankee. Wait til my man Wang gets healthy, I know the Yanks cant. Sandman is still his usual badd self. But other than him , i'm not feelin this lineup of pitchers. Rocket will get madd dollars thrown at his cleats!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 10:57 AM

My bad, you're right with A.P! Mo.

These players are treated as free agents v. draft prospects. As they should. No reason to change this game around and bring in hundreds of other players in a draft that already has a draft made up of a million rounds. I know the 2000's have been a downward spiral for the Yankee's and their spending. Wang looks like the only good option so far! Be on the look for Phillip Hughes, P. As for the rest of their prospects, it's anyones guess!

NFL and NBA have a better formula no doubt. I'm all for salary caps! Unfortunally it wont happen though.
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 12:43 PM

Good luck with your Yankees, hopefully the Royals can eventually rekindle the rivalry.
You're right, things probably won't change, unless something very bad happens to the game, and who would want that.
I appreciate your passion for your team.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 01:33 PM

Right on. And good luck to the Royals also! I dont ever want to sound like it's the Yankees and everybody else. Just cause I defend my team doesnt mean there are madd holes in our lineup that need to be discussed. Pitching sucks so it will be a frustrating year.
Posted by: thanksforcoming

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 02:02 PM

"Well they should be, it's not because they are great at developing talent, it's because they can write large checks. REAL IMPRESSIVE."

IT IS A BUSINESS. Are you not reading???? It's not about developing players, that is done in high school and college.(In the U.S. anyway) Professional Baseball is about buying players, no matter where you are from, what you look like or if you like it or not. The impressive part is that others can't spent like that, and the others would be out of business. The yankees built there business on the best ball players and they still run it that way today.
Posted by: thanksforcoming

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 02:04 PM

A-Rod looks to be back, except in the paper it talked about his walk off granny, and then at the end talke dabout his strikeout that he had two games before. Is that guy ever going to get on tiop. I hope, he's not my favorite Yankee and he is overpaid (by the rangers, yankees are getting a deal for him) to be a third baseman, he doesn't deserve to be booed by the fans.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 06:35 PM

Quote:

You beat the Jeter thing to the ground. Why, I have no idea! Only cause maybe you wanted to be part of the discussion and start out your chime wearing your emotions on your keyboard. It's cool though, knowing that the same guy you start out by bashing would be the same guy you would be rooting for if he was on your team. Catch 22 cause of the jersey? Wow! Again, never said Jeter was the greatest. You probably like Mark Teahan but god forbid if he signed with the Yankees as a FA in the future, what would you say then. Or Alex Gordon. Those two are a few years away from gettin' plucked by the Yanks!
Pitching has been suspect. Nothing I didnt figure in though. Igawa is overhyped. Fastball in the 80's. Breaking ball with no location. Runnung pitch counts to 2-0 way to many times. Recipe for destruction. Mussina got rocked. Pettitte didnt look the same. Pavano is unproven as a Yankee. Wait til my man Wang gets healthy, I know the Yanks cant. Sandman is still his usual badd self. But other than him , i'm not feelin this lineup of pitchers. Rocket will get madd dollars thrown at his cleats!




Man you kill me with some of your stuff. I wear no emotions on my keyboard because I understand this is nothing more than entertainment.I beat the Jeter thing down because I like watching you come to his "rescue" every single time like his personal body guard and it's fun to needle you a bit. Now who is wearing the emotions on the sleeve now...thought so. The really funny thing is the whole I bashed a guy but would love him on my team. Read closer. I said I would love A-rod on my team and I NEVER said anything negative about him. You can keep Jeter and I would not want him. There are to many other shortstops who do the same things and some even better. Tehan is an ok player but I would not call myself a fan but I have to tell you the days of Yankees plucking anybody from the Royals look to be over so guess you better get used to the 70's and 80's all over again. Now won't that be fun!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 07:19 PM

You have the wrong Yankeefan if your hopin for some kind of negative vibe. I was posting cause he isnt as overrated as you would daydream! Wishful thinking is just a wish! Count the rings! Number 5 on the horizon for the HOF SS to fit the thumb. 27 for the greatest franchise ever! You cant exceed Jeter's leadership and numbers. No SS playing can. Good luck! And we will continue to treat the Royals as our quadruple A farm team!
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/09/07 07:54 PM

Rings don't always equal greatness. Herb Pennack has 3 (do you even know who he is without looking him up?) Hank Aaron, Nolan Ryan, and Cal Ripken have one. So is Herb greater than these guys because he has two more rings? Hardly, especially considering 99.9% of people don't even know who he is including you. I will not argue Jeters leadership but multiple players at SS can exceed his numbers all day long and twice on Sunday. The problem I have with Jeter is his "greatness" has been bestowed on him because he is a Yankee. If he played in Seattle with the exact same numbers you would call him solid. I will not argue pennants either. Yankees have more than anyone all time period end of story on that one. As far as the Royals go like I said it appears to me those days may be nearing an end so I hope you enjoyed it while it lasted.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/10/07 09:05 AM

First off, if your gonna start hangin names about players you dont think I ever heard of try spelling there names right(Pennock)! Second, save it, every Yankee knows his players! Moving on. Rings do equal TEAM success. 4 out of 5 years. 3 straight if I recall. Now, was Steve Kerr better than Karl Malone? Was Robert Horry better than Patrick Ewing? No they werent, but they did do things those two never did. Ask Roger Clemens how good it felt to finally win a ring. Bottom line is some people get sic of seeing other players/teams win, especially if they drink a massive dose of haterade! Unfreeze Ted and ask him what it would of meant if he won a ring! Most HOFers who never won a ring will say something like they "had a good career" and "baseball was good to my family". But the reality is these guys are so competitive, and, like my man Lombardi said "winning isnt everything, it's the only thing", there will always be an empty space that never will be fullfilled. DJ is a good player who happens to be "great" because of the rings, thats one of the ways you seperate good from great. Bottom line on this deadhorse is you cant stand to see the Yankees win. It seems the only satisfication you can get is cushioning your "posts" stats on a Yankee thread. Have you even dropped a post about the Royals? What, maybe 1 total? Since your team sucks I can see now why you stop by a winners thread! Jeter and the Yankees will be in the playoffs. Royals wont. And Alex Gordon will be wondering in October what it would be like playing for the Yankees in April!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/10/07 10:35 PM

ARod is welcoming all comers this year for MVP!

These stats are just staggering: 10-27. 10 runs. 6 hr. 15 rbi. .370 ba. 1.148 slg. .......in a total of 7 games.
Basically 13 is gettin it done. Period. Now, this pace will start to pump its brakes sometime and bring everything at a level field. But when? We'll see. Tonight he just went deep for the 4th straight game. Watch for ARod to swipe a few bases this year also. ARods worst month of every year is upon us in less than 6 months. He's lookin like he is ready to take the whistle and lead us to number 27!
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/10/07 10:41 PM

I took Pennock off the top of MY HEAD there jhawk75 so being a spelling critic is lame. Don't even pretend you knew who he was without looking him up. The truest thing you said in your thread was rings equal team success which makes my point. Rings don't make a player great especially when they play on a loaded team like the Yanks. Now, you better go back and check your figures on my Royals posts many more than one. That said you can find me on Royals board all the time which is where I spend most of my Royals talk time so try again on that one too. You are right I can't stand the Yankees winning because I can't stand the Yankees period. I don't think not fawning all over a team is a crime. It is what makes sports what it is. As far as being a Royals fan well it is much harder to love them than for you to love the Yankees so much. Anybody can ride the bandwagon of a team like the Yankees so keep patting yourself on the back for taking the easy road. Also pretty easy to make fun of a team that has been down primarily because of the atmosphere created by teams like the Yankees and Red Sox which is really the problem I have with those kind of teams. Now, if this is such a deadhorse why do you keep responding....again whose emotions are on the keyboard?
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 08:02 AM

Nobody has started this year playing better baseball than Alex Rodriguez! Cat is tearing it up!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 09:21 AM

The only reason I respond is because your the only one that posts! Nobody else to ballyhoo with! I post anyways, regardless who responds. Isnt it amazing how people, on a message board no less, label you as someone who doesnt know squat about a player/topic? And where do I know you from again? Look, go anywhere you want on the baseball board about history but dont, I REPEAT, DONT swim in Yankee waters. You will get sunk! The Jeter topic you will never understand. Who really cares anywayz? The guy has 4 rings, end of story. Yeah, sure 01, you have been the posting fanatic about the Royals this year. What, a total of 2 posts so far about your team this year. How many have you thrown down here on the YankeeShip? Since the Royals have nothing to gum about you wanna chew the fat on a Yankee board! Love it! On that note, everyone is welcome on the YankeeShip! Climb aboard. Oh, and Bandwagon! For the record I have been Yankee fan since my Uncle pitched for them in '77. Mike Torrez. Not a great pitcher but a good pickup before the playoffs. 2-0 v. the Dodgers. 2 complete games. Oh yeah, and he owns a ring also. When you grow up goin to Yankee games and watchin' first hand Reggie put one on the RF porch it's awfully difficult to hang other teams in your room, not to mention one of your own hurlin 2 complete ganes in a World Series. Again, where do I know you from?
Save the Royals flap. They had pisspoor management, thats the reason they sucked. Explain the 90's! Who did we take from you, Tartabull? We did you a favor on that one. Too bad Vincent Jackson didnt sign with us when he had the chance. This Moore cat I like though. Atleast he's got a pair. But hey, in the end, i'll be kickin' back sippin' on some grapes ready to cue my man Frank in......"Start spreadin' the news". You know the rest!
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 12:26 PM

Two Royals posts? Dude I told you I post Royals talk on ROYALS BOARD. Go check it out. Now, the reason I like responding to your posts is because it is FUN to get a Yankee in a dither. As far as the Royals mgmt goes they have sucked and you will get no argument from me on that one BUT the economics of baseball has a lot to do with their and many other teams downfalls and to say it doesn't is just blind. As far at your Uncle goes that is cool and I would probably be a Yankee fan if that were my uncle too. As far as Yankee waters, well I don't think I have been sunk at all but that is a matter of opinion I suppose. It's been fun having a little banter with you.
Posted by: Rex_Walters

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 05:32 PM

JHAWX75,

Just wondering, have you ever lived on the east coast or are you just a bandwagon Yankee fan?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 05:52 PM

Na, I go there only for Yankee games. No bandwagon either, read my last post!
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 06:55 PM

Quote:

Na, I go there only for Yankee games. No bandwagon either, read my last post!




As much crap as I give 75 for being a Yankee fan I would have to say he is Yankee through and through. Although that may make him disturbing to us and hard to understand I do not think he is a bandwagon fan. Now as far as taste goes that is another story altogether!
Posted by: CrimsonNBlue

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 07:06 PM

F the yanks, Dice-K on the mound right now!
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 08:18 PM

I like the first part of your statement but I don't want to fly under false colors....I feel the same way about the sox. 50 million just to say hello to Dice-K and another 50 before he ever set foot in the states let alone play MLB game. Sorry the Red Sox are part of the same problem I despise the Yankees for. I say Dice-K pitch against the Royals and seriously he was not much better then Zack Greinke that day.
Posted by: CrimsonNBlue

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 09:23 PM

that says more about greinke than dice-k. 6 hits over 7 innings w/ an ER and 10 K's isn't too bad of a Major league debut, is it?
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 09:28 PM

Not at all. It is a solid debut. My point was he might be just a tad overpaid and overhyped for what he brings to the table....at least so far. Hey, he may go on to be Clemens, Koufax, and Ryan all rolled into one but let's wait and see. As far as Zack goes it was just nice to see the kid pitch to his abilities especially after all he has gone through.
Posted by: CrimsonNBlue

Re: Yankees. - 04/11/07 11:48 PM

Quote:

My point was he might be just a tad overpaid and overhyped for what he brings to the table....at least so far. Hey, he may go on to be Clemens, Koufax, and Ryan all rolled into one but let's wait and see.h.




exactly, 2 starts is a little early to be using words like overpaid and overhyped. but also to use names like clemens and koufax. (ryan is ok, always thought he was a little overrated, what a lifetime ERA over 5?)
Posted by: thanksforcoming

Re: Yankees. - 04/12/07 12:04 AM

Dice-K sucked tonight. Or maybe Felix Hernandez is just that much better. What a game for him. He will be the next Yankee.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/12/07 10:11 AM

Thats two!

With Wang already on the DL, Mussina will now join him. A leg strain in last nights game to the Twins put the Moose on the goose. This is gonna be a very looooong year. Can we get my man Phillip Hughes a nod? Can we give PH a shot on the bump? I know some injuries happen while washing your car(Kent), snowboarding(Radmonavich) and even droppin a lights out meatball leg drop on your kid while wrestling on your yacht(Griffey JR.). But the ones that happen "in game" like Mussina's are the worst cause it's a routine he will do again(imo). I guess an injury is an injury when all said and done though. Farnsworth better get his lid right. 100 mph fastball with control like Ricky Vaughan. And when it does cross the plate he serves it right in the wheelhouse. Henn had good relief on a minutes notice after Mussinas injury. As did Proctor and Vizcaino. Suspect pitching though with the starters.

Alright, come on, i'm ready. Let the verbal beatings begin!
Posted by: thanksforcoming

Re: Yankees. - 04/12/07 12:23 PM

Long year, no pitching. Good pitching beats good hitting. I was told that by a college coach and didn't really believe it then. We could hit and our pitchers were thumbers, but we still won. I am starting to believe him now because the Yankees can put al the hitters in teh lineup they want, but if the pitching can't keep it in the park, then where does that leave you.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/18/07 08:42 AM

Good outing by Chase Wright. The young lefty was just stepping into the double a shower last week. This week, stepped out and onto the bump at Yankee Stadium. Scattered 5 hits in 5 innings with 3 earned runs. Powered by this years soon to be MVP's 8th HR, Wright looked good as he got settled in. ARod is just brutalizing every pitcher and is welcoming ALL who want to stare him down from the hill. While Jeter has been struggling so far in the field, what about that phenominal play up the middle! Never underestimate the heart of a champion!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/19/07 04:59 PM

One day after Igawa posted his first win as a Yankee, Mr. MVP put one in the dark seats.

That's right, ARod put number 10 in the 'pen. Down 6-2 goin into the 9th and down to their final out, hell, even their final strike, the rally had just began. Josh Phelps started it with a two out HR. Posada singled on a 2-2 pitch. Damon walked with a full count. Jeter hit a rbi single. Abreu was down 1-2 and poked rbi single opposit field. Which brought up "HRod", ARod. First pitch in the dirt. Second pitch grew wings!

Now its off to Fenway Park! Where the best rivalry in sports kicks off Friday!
Posted by: kuking123

Re: Yankees. - 04/20/07 11:41 AM

Have they already engraved A-Rod's name on the MVP trophy? What a season he is having already! Imagine if he hasn't gotten hot yet? Great weekend for baseball rivalries. Cubs -Cards and Yanks - Bo Sox.
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 04/20/07 06:41 PM

Speaking of Cards vs. Cubs, did you happen to see the interference call during today's game king?
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 04/20/07 07:08 PM

HOMERUN, THERE IT GOES!! #11 for Alex Rodriguez!
Posted by: rockchalk2305

Re: Yankees. - 04/20/07 07:57 PM

And #12. Is ARod dialed in or what??
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/20/07 10:19 PM

Bullpen janks!

Randy Myers Vizcaino and Sandman spoiled what was being set up to be an Alex Rodriguez batting clinic. ARod swatted and single handily beat up the Red Sox for 8 innings until Jank Myers, Vizcaino and Jankman got called. I would be pissed if I was Pettitte! He was mowin' cats down and was in a nice groove with good location. Then the collapse! I would be heated! AS far as the 'pen goes, they better get right! Period. Back to ARod though. He is just killin it. Every atbat i'm thinkin he's gonna bash one out of the yard. That was a throwing error though he had in one of the innings tonight, ruled it a hit. Third baseman have to make that play! But the dude is flat out in a zone. With the shortage of starters the gameplan is to score madd runs and hope the bullpen holds! See how Chase Wright holds down Sunday night.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/21/07 03:49 PM

I love the fact that there are still boo birds in Yankee stadium when A-rod comes to bat after what he has done at the start of this season. I thought it was silly before but now it is just ignorant. Spoiled fans who are never happy...it's the Yankee way I guess. Greatest and most informed fans anywhere I have heard on sports center time and time again. RRRRIIIIGGGGHHHHHTTTTTT!.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/23/07 09:11 AM

Spoiled snot-nosed Yankee fans 01, thats all they are!

This weekend was proposterous, a disaster and just flat out wrong. Friday a bunch of bullpen janks got shelled for a bitter, air deflating defeat. Saturday was a hangover from Friday. And Sunday the rookie lefty got "chased" out of Fenway. Pitching a decent game until launch time, Chase Wright finally had found a rhythem. All night he was getting behind hitters 1-0, 2-0 and the pitch count was rising. Seemed he had found his groove. Then, disaster struck. I forget but the pecking order was something like Manny, Drew, Lowell and Varitek, all homers. That would be 1. 2. 3. 4 in a row. Backtobacktobacktoback! Holy fat, what in blue haiti's happened? Then, in comes "police academy" Proctor, who got hammered Friday btw. Well, Sunday was no different than Friday. Looked more like the Proctor from Police Academy: Yankees On Patrol. Where was Commandant Lassard or SGT. Harris? Mahoney and Tackleberry? Hooks and Jones? Hell, i'll even take the bullpen team of Sweetchuck and Zed right now!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/23/07 09:50 PM

Another loss.

ARod is immortal.

Erin Andrews fed a manta ray.

I wish I was a manta ray.

Where's Roger?

Where's our brass?

Where's our pitching?

ARod hit number 13.

ARod hit number 14.

ARod is the man.

Why didnt we throw at Boston hitters?

Can Guidry still pitch?

Hughes Thursday.

Boston in the Bronx.

Where's Roger??
Posted by: nonstop

Re: Yankees. - 04/23/07 10:52 PM

ARod on pace for 43 million home runs this year
Posted by: Roy_Als

Re: Yankees. - 04/24/07 08:52 AM

Pay-Rod might finally be worth his millions....but then again he'll probably choke come October.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/24/07 09:26 AM

Hopefully they make it into October.

Isnt ARod's yearly payroll the same as the Royals total payroll? Anywayz, nobody is worth 25 mill a year. Nobody.
Posted by: Roy_Als

Re: Yankees. - 04/24/07 10:30 AM

His salary is only half of the Royals payroll. And I don't think anybody even deserves the minimum salary to play for pay.
Posted by: thanksforcoming

Re: Yankees. - 04/24/07 10:38 AM

It's funny how people already have the Yankees playing in October. It's Awesome, like their bull pen. Need Mussina and Pavano back, and Clemons would be a good addition. If Jason Giambi wants Clemons so bad, why doesn't he take a pay cut and pay the ROcket to come save the day?
Posted by: thanksforcoming

Re: Yankees. - 04/24/07 10:39 AM

"His salary is only half of the Royals payroll."

The Yankees aren't the only ones paying A-Rod. THe Rangers still pay most of his salary. Look it up. I am trying to find it.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/24/07 10:46 AM

Roy: what's the minimum, 3 million? sounds like you want to be stuck back in the 80's. Where do you want the money to go, owners? Better franks? Maybe lay-z boy seats in the stands? Bottom line is you should be paid on how you produce. Period. ARod should be paid like AGordon? Please!

t4coming: I believe the Rangers are responsible for around 8 million this year.
Posted by: Roy_Als

Re: Yankees. - 04/24/07 10:58 AM

I'd be happy to be stuck in the 80's. The Royals were consistently winning then.

Lower salaries = lower ticket prices, concessions, parking, etc.

My point about the minimum salary is that it would take the average person years to make that.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/24/07 11:07 AM

Well, the minimum wage is up from the eighties also. Should we take the same hit? Try goin back to makin 3 or 4 an hour in todays economy. If you want lower salaries then take into consideration your pay also gettin cut.


month yr. wage
October 1938 $0.25

October 1939 $0.30

October 1945 $0.40

January 1950 $0.75

March 1956 $1.00

September 1961 $1.15

September 1963 $1.25

February 1967 $1.40

February 1968 $1.60

May 1974 $2.00

January 1975 $2.10

January 1976 $2.30

January 1978 $2.65

January 1979 $2.90

January 1980 $3.10

January 1981 $3.35

April 1990 $3.80

April 1991 $4.25

October 1996 $4.75

September 1997 $5.15
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/27/07 09:05 AM

6 in a row. Oh, and Boston is on it's way to town.

The rookie Phillip Hughes was on the bump for his first appearence. Not a bad start going 4, giving up 4 earned and striking out 5. He was just as good as 18 mill a year Mussina and 12 mill Pavano. Too bad the offense took the night off and expected Hughes to throw a no-no at "The House".

No moral victories though. Not when you drop 6 in a row with Boston flyin' in.

The suggestion box is open.
Posted by: chiknbut

Re: Yankees. - 04/27/07 10:10 AM


Last Place Baseball

Clap, Clap, Clapclapclap

Last Place Baseball

Clap, clap, Clapclapclap

It's interesting how much the Yankees and Royals have in common right now.

My brother had a conversation with a Yankees fan this past weekend. The guy hates A-Rod because "he's not a team player" like Jeter and wishes he would be traded.

Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/27/07 11:27 AM

chill. only things they have in common is their record. And we all know who is more capable of puttin distance in between that.

All the "trade ARod" gummin is a joke. The "team player" analogy in baseball shouldnt be leaned on as much as other sports.
Posted by: jayhwk01

Re: Yankees. - 04/28/07 07:57 PM

You must be one of the few Yanks who wants to keep A-rod. Yankee nation has been down on him from day one.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/28/07 09:41 PM

Finally a win!

Good pitching by Igawa. Bout time!

Moving on....

Definitly want to keep him. We're talkin' about a guy who will hit over 800 home runs when it's done. October can change all that. But right now Yankees got madd buisness to take care of before that.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 04/30/07 11:13 AM

I'm at a loss! Literally, at a loss!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/02/07 08:09 AM

Finally a win.

Of course at the expense of another pitcher.

Phil Hughes pitched a madd gem last night but ended up where 3 other pitchers are currently: on the DL! No hitter through 6 and pulls a pigstring. Out over a month. Yankee's 07 story.

The Stripes are battlers though people. Take any other MLB team and remove their 3 starters for more than a month and now a 4th coupled with 2 bullpen pitchers and see how they perform! Wondering how a team like Boston would do if Beckett, Schilling and Dice were out for a month plus a couple of set up men in the pen.

Good to get a win regardless. Just wish it didnt involve losing another pitcher.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/13/07 12:01 AM

I just want to say thank you Yankees for your relentless fight. You make me proud to be a Yankee.

What other teams would be able to survive the tough breaks on the bump the Yanks have had? Exactly, NONE! They would be bottom feeders wih no fire. Not the Yankees though.

And how about the Mothers Day bats that will be in use Sunday? Tip your hat to MLB players for acknowledging a serious situation in life. About 10 Yankees will be participating in this monumental, historic day!

Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/17/07 10:37 AM

The AL East will be chopped to 4 when the 1st of June hits.

Thats the time when youknowwho steps out the plane!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/17/07 10:49 AM

Red Sox better stay on their toes like a midget in a urinal!
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 05/17/07 11:47 AM

Just hope Clemens does not end up like half of the rest of the Yankees Pitchers. On the DL. He is a work horse of course of course. A wonderful horse of course of course. It will be interesting to see if he pitches in a Interleague game on the road. Of course he wont. Doesn't want to get that nice punim of his mangled by a fast ball.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/20/07 10:37 PM

Good win for the good guys!

Tyler "Yankee Clippard" Clippard!

Clutch is a heavy hitter.

HRod went fence.

Posada on MVP watch?
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 05/20/07 10:38 PM

Not many MVP's from 4th place teams.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/20/07 11:26 PM

Dont get too comfortable on the 4th place position. Remember, we're STILL The Yankees and their STILL the red sox. No division title in how many years? What was goin on in the world when they last took the division anyways?

Hakeem earned his 2nd Finals MVP while Houston went back to back.

Tom Glavine was MVP. Braves won the World Series.

Steve Young led the 49ers to the Super Bowl title.

Bill Clinton was still on his first term.

What songs were hot?

Method Man and Mary J. Blige did a duet with the song "You're All I Need"

Ol' Dirty Bastard and Mariah Carey also did a duet to the song "Fantasy"

Hell, even Eazy-E was still alive!

Look, I said "watch". As of May 20th, he's on watch.

Couldnt even entertain the thought 42 games in could ya?
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 07:58 AM

When your Tankees keep losing 2 out of 3 in each series they play, that is trouble my friend. Turn the trend around and start winning 2 of 3 and all will be well. I am glad you can be a glass 1/8 full type of guy.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 11:12 AM

Better to have something in the glass than nothing.

As a fan of sports, and life for that matter, I try to think positive and hope that things get better. When I sound arrogant or cocky I dont mean to be. I just try and have confidence to the third degreee no matter what is happening on the field. Trust me, I've rehearsed this before, for i'm a New Orleans Saints and Hornets fan.
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 11:50 AM

My hat's off to you. You have a great outlook. I would not be at all shocked if you as a Yankee fan end up having the last laugh this year. It is just time the Yankees turn things around and do so quickly.
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 01:17 PM

Quote:

My hat's off to you. You have a great outlook. I would not be at all shocked if you as a Yankee fan end up having the last laugh this year. It is just time the Yankees turn things around and do so quickly.




How can they not turn things around? They have the best team money can buy.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 01:20 PM

It sounds like you want it both ways on Posada and the Yanks.

On the one hand, you want us to ignore the Yankees' current state and give them credit for their past history of finishing the season on top. In other words, you don't think their record after 42 games of the season reflects their true quality.

On the other hand, you want us to consider Posada an MVP candidate because of his performance through 42 games, yet there isn't anything in his past that would lead anyone to think he's going to finish the year hitting with a .382 average, .441 on-base percentage, and .618 slugging percentage, all of which would be career highs by wide, wide margins.

You can have one, but not the other. If 42 games isn't a big enough sample, then I'll be happy not to right off the Yankees yet. But then, that would also make it way too early to put Posda on "MVP watch". Or, I can put Posada on MVP watch because 42 games is enough to judge that he's going to have a career year, but then I'll have to right off the Yankees for the year.

I'm happy with either one, so I'll let you choose.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 02:54 PM

No, I have never said for you or anybody to ignore the Yankees moment, nor have I ignored it. But it's basically Yankee bashing at it's so called best if they are winning or losing. I would be good with discussing baseball the game rather than responding to shallow Yankee bashing. Sometimes i'll respond to just see how creative some of you are. I have thick, New Orleans Saint skin so it's all good.

The Posada MVP thought came straight from The Baseball Tonight crew on ESPN. Simply a conversation piece 42 games into the season. They have this discussion on that show around every quarter of the season. Who knows if he will be talked about 80 games into the season when they do it again. Hell, who knows if you wont get pooped on by a bird tomorrow. I dont know. But right now, 42 games in the season, Posada is in the discussion.

The Yankees fall has been disasterous. It has also been assisted by a madd hot boston squad that has been straight up relentless. And i'm sure i'll get hit on this one also cause it's The Yankees......But I would hope as baseball head's you take into consideration the Yankee pitching staff and how it has been ripped by injuries. You take any other team in the MLB and face them with the same issue: 6 pitchers, starters or relievers, on the DL. See how they would do.

And of course, not even a smidgen of love on this board about the pitchers the Yankees keep throwing out there. Only when they are in a Hussein hole is when you birds are chirpin'.
Posted by: Hawk1990

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 03:29 PM

Two responses:

1. - I have zero pity for the Yankees' health woes. You buy old players, you better be ready for more frequent injuries. Sure, it's a bit fluky to get two of the rookies injured on comebackers, but the reality is that the Yankees were only putting Rasner and Karstens on the mound in the first place because they couldn't keep Mussina or Pavano healthy. They started the year with two starters over 35 (three once Clemens arrives), a 37-year old closer, a 38-year old lefty specialist plus a another lefty spscialist who was 37. Every single regular position player is 31 or older except for Cano and, (shocker!) several of them have been hurt. You'd think, with all of George's millions, Cashma ncould have bought a decent bench, or, I don't know, outbid the Royals for Gil Meche. (For the record, the Red Sox are in the same boat and it bit them last year when they lost Manny, Wakefield, Schilling, Nixon, Timlin, Foulke and Varitek for extended stretches. You choose to go with old players, you risk getting burned.)

2. You may never have said the words "ignore the Yankees current record", but it was certainly implied in such epic posts as:

"The AL East will be chopped to 4 when the 1st of June hits"

and

"Red Sox better stay on their toes like a midget in a urinal"

and

"Dont get too comfortable on the 4th place position. Remember, we're STILL The Yankees and their STILL the red sox."
Posted by: Roy_Als

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 03:46 PM

JHAWX75 Quote:

"Dont get too comfortable on the 4th place position. Remember, we're STILL The Yankees and their STILL the red sox."

Did you play for the Yankees since you always refer to them as we or we're JHAWX75? Just curious?

How soon will you change "Ready for number 27 in '07"?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 04:11 PM

So....

Your saying the red sox shouldnt stay on their toes like a midget in a urinal?

And....

The red sox should be comfortable 40 plus games into the season sittin atop first place by 11?

Sure it's nice but definitly not comfortable. Ask Francona if he's ridin cadillac comfortable just 40 games in of a 162 game season.

The difference between Yankees this year and the red sox of last year was that red sox had no pitchers step up and put a band aid on the wound. It kept bleeding and bleeding.

Try lookin at the AGE of pitchers on the DL. I dont give a rip about the hitters, they've held their own pretty well so far. Regardless, Karstens and Rasner were set up men for Sandman so that right there raises flags for help in the 'pen:

Herers your ages by the way on the DL:

Veras: 26
Sanchez: 23
Hughes: 20
Karstens: 24
Rasner: 25

Pavano is a contract we are stuck with. Plus we've been without his services for 2 years now so that doesnt even need be discussed.

And Phillip Hughes had a no no in the 7th before poppin' his rubberband. He wasnt even supposed to show his face til after 1st half at the soonest.

It all comes down to resiliancy folks. The red sox didnt have it last year. Didnt even make the playoffs. The Yankees could still pull a comeback.

Hope and Faith my friend. Hope and Faith!

And keep the age thing on the hush hotshot, Boston isnt any younger. I would hate for that to come back AGAIN to bite you.

Average Yankee age: 29.9
Average red sox age: 30.7
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 04:23 PM

Quote:

JHAWX75 Quote:

"Dont get too comfortable on the 4th place position. Remember, we're STILL The Yankees and their STILL the red sox."

Did you play for the Yankees since you always refer to them as we or we're JHAWX75? Just curious?

How soon will you change "Ready for number 27 in '07"?




No. My Uncle did. 2-0 in the '77 WS. Remembered probably more for his po-tater he tossed over the plate to Bucky Dent.

When your 7 years old takin pictures with the world champions in the clubhouse(Jackson, Munson, Hunter and Randolph) and your eyes are burnin' from the champagne, it's hard to forget those times and the team you were with.
Posted by: Roy_Als

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 04:49 PM

Would that be Topekan Mike Torrez who is your Uncle?
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 05:01 PM

Sho'nuff!
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 09:22 PM

Lowell is scary. I seriously thought he was goin' fence.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/21/07 09:24 PM

Tryin to take Captain Clutch out!
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 05/22/07 10:01 AM

That's pretty cool that Torrez is your uncle and that you are old enough to remember him playing. By the way, jdavis34 appears to be some what bitter today. Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because he realizes by mid June there might be a dog fight in the AL East?
Posted by: chiknbut

Re: Yankees. - 05/22/07 10:12 AM


I have to admit, thinking back on the Yankees of the 1970s, that's when baseball seemed really great. Especially since it always seemed the Yankees and Royals were battling for the AL title.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/22/07 02:59 PM

I to wish baseball could find the days of wayback again.

Back when golly-gee was the thing to say.

Back when Lucy and Beaver ruled t.v.(did that sound right, Lucy Beaver?)

Now instead of Jerry Mathers we have Marshall Mathers.
Posted by: Roy_Als

Re: Yankees. - 05/29/07 10:08 AM

It's awfully quiet on this thread right now...
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 05/29/07 11:39 AM

Big George is back. Had military duties that needed serviced.

I've been changing my logo while all the losses have continued to stack up. Tryin' to find a groove. Maybe The Boss is my sanctuary.

Yeah, all teams are takin a dump on the Yanks. It's a corner I didnt expect to be backed up in. Not this year or this soon anywayz. Offense continues to be a let down. Starting pitching has been ok but the bullpen smells like a sweaty pimp who splashed on some Drakkar while on his way to the club.

Anybody have any upbeat comeback songs to pull The Yankees out of this dump?

Here's one.

(Jeter is solo on the first verse.......)

Well I won't back down
No I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down

(ARod grabs the mic and butts in on verse 2.....)

No I'll stand my ground, won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin me down
gonna stand my ground... and I won't back down


(Now, all Yankees go in unison while lookin at eachother as Torre goes into Tom Petty mode on his players ....)

(I won't back down...)
Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
(and I won't back down...)
hey I will stand my ground
and I won't back down

(Giambi is a perfect choice for verse 3)

Well I know what's right, I got just one life
in a world that keeps on pushin me around
but I'll stand my ground
...and I won't back down

(in unison(louder) with Torre goin up an octave)

(I won't back down...)
Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
(and I won't back down...)
hey I will stand my ground
(I won't back down)
and I won't back down...

(Now, Steinny comes in to close it out with Torre joining the team in unison)

(I won't back down...)
Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
(I won't back down)
hey I won't back down
(and I won't back down)
hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
(and I won't back down)
hey I will stand my ground
(and I won't back down)
and I won't back down
(I won't back down)
No I won't back down...


I feel much much better!

Thanks Tom!
Posted by: jammahawk

Re: Yankees. - 05/29/07 01:42 PM

I have an autographed pic of Mike Torrez when he was with the Cardinals, probably around '71. When I was a kid, The Cards were my team.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 06/12/07 08:23 AM

The ground is getting fragile Red Sock Nation.
Posted by: gquinn225

Re: Yankees. - 06/19/07 06:51 PM

Just chiming in on this thread to ask people in other cities if the ticket prices are raised when the Yankees come to town.

Here in Denver, the prices have been at least doubled for the 3 game set with the Yanks.

Supply and demand I suppose. Another reason to shake my head at them, in my opinion.

But would like some feedback if possible.

Thanks.
Posted by: WeDontNeedRush

Re: Yankees. - 06/20/07 08:54 AM

Hmm, not sure where you got your tickets. I went to the game last night and I paid the exact same as I do for any other game.
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 06/20/07 09:20 AM

There you go. Just to cure my curiosity I went on the Rockies web site and was able (if I wanted to purchase) to get Sec 131 Row 28 for face. I am sure if you want the first few rows you would have to pay double or maybe even 3 times as gquinn225 mentioned. Otherwise face for decent seats.
Posted by: gquinn225

Re: Yankees. - 06/20/07 09:43 AM

Rockies ticket prices


No no no....Read the link guys....notice how there is a range of pricing.

The range is pretty straight forward. For monday-wed games (in general), the lowest price is the one...then for th-sun games, they are a couple dollars more expensive (i've seen that before).

Then, the far end pricing is for the YANKEES. So the $45 face ticket you may have seen last night would normally be a $24 ticket, for example.

I was going to do a flex plan this year before I quit my job in mid-april, and the Yankees were definitely more, dontneedrush, so I know I am accurate there. Not sure where you got your tickets for the same price.

For the record, have an extra for tonight, or know of one? Have the night off. And despite not enjoying the Yanks at all really, would be nice to see the two hottest teams in baseball go after each other (I know, I'm a hypocrite).

Thanks for your help gutter and rush...

edit: i have one of the hand schedules that has the pricing , and blatantly says indiv prices (then a small range, 30-38 for outfield box, for example), and then indiv yankees (60 for the same seats). So, I know I'm not going crazy : ), just can't get the digital camera to get a good shot on it, it's too small and paper is too shiny.
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 06/20/07 09:53 AM

Gotcha gquinn225! Many teams now pull this crap. "Premium games and pricing". I have no Rockies tickets. If you ever are in Chicago and want a Cubs or Sox ticket then I can accommodate you. Good luck on getting a ticket and if you do, enjoy the game.
Posted by: georgiahawk

Re: Yankees. - 06/20/07 10:12 AM

The Royals recently had "premium pricing" for the Cardinals series.
Posted by: WeDontNeedRush

Re: Yankees. - 06/20/07 10:33 AM

I've been in Section 108 (Rightfield Box) for games during the Kansas City, Houston, Tampa and NYY series and paid the same price each time. Purchased through the Rockies ticket office online.
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 06/20/07 10:42 AM

I believe you but if you click on tickets the same seats sure seem to be cheaper for the upcoming Houston games than they are for the Yankees.

Sorry - forgot to post the link...

http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=col
Posted by: gquinn225

Re: Yankees. - 06/20/07 10:49 AM

Quote:

I've been in Section 108 (Rightfield Box) for games during the Kansas City, Houston, Tampa and NYY series and paid the same price each time. Purchased through the Rockies ticket office online.




I honestly have no idea how you got the same price. I have documentation right in front of me stating otherwise. Nice work, though, if it's accurate.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 06/30/07 03:52 PM

TANKees.

1 hit by Oakland.

At home.
Posted by: jdavis34

Re: Yankees. - 06/30/07 05:16 PM

Yankees are done.
Posted by: JHAWX75

Re: Yankees. - 06/30/07 11:10 PM

I'll agree with that.

Right now.
Posted by: jdavis34

Re: Yankees. - 07/01/07 08:11 AM

Yankees fans are givig up

Yankees players are burning [censored] in Yankee Stadium.
Posted by: jdavis34

Re: Yankees. - 07/01/07 10:40 AM

95 wins is a good number to get in.

Red Sox are currently at 49 wins, 46 wins away from 95.

There are 83 games left in the 162 game schedule.

46/83 is approx. 55 percent. So the Red Sox just have to play above .500 baseball to make it in.

Yankees have 37 wins, 58 wins away from 95. They have 85 games left. To get to 95 wins, they must win just over 68 percent of their games.
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Yankees. - 07/01/07 11:48 AM

Who cares? Fuk the Red Sox and the Yankees
Posted by: jdavis34

Re: Yankees. - 07/01/07 10:34 PM

Quote:

Who cares? Fuk the Red Sox and the Yankees


this is a yankees thread...

there is a royals thread over there...go take a look at it bad boy.
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 08/02/07 03:49 PM

Look for Jermaine Dye to make some comment after today's game about how the Yankees should have signed/traded for him. He happened to hit the heck out of the ball TODAY.
Posted by: stevemize

Re: Yankees. - 08/02/07 03:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Who cares? Fuk the Red Sox and the Yankees


this is a yankees thread...

there is a royals thread over there...go take a look at it bad boy.



Yeah, GTFO out of Red Sox nation if you aren't a part of it, bitches.
Why don't you use this line, you thought it was nice on the ChokeSox line, assbag?
Posted by: larryb

Re: Yankees. - 08/02/07 04:02 PM

stevemize - You seem to have a bit of a temper or anger issue. I have a few happy pills I an willing to share.