Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times

Posted by: Jayhawk1952

Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/12/19 11:38 PM

Now that our team for next season is finally shaping up, one scholarship left and probably not needed for this year, it’s the really slow down time for news on this board. But don’t go to sleep, wake up! We are living during the best of KU Basketball years!

This post is first for those who have been bellyaching about the sky falling for KU basketball, especially the youngsters. Second, it’s for those who love stats and history. And third, it’s in honor of my good Phoggy friend. He gushes over these kinds of posts!

With 67 seasons of basketball under my belt, the successes of our basketball program during these years have been quite enjoyable. But lately I hear so much dissatisfaction by some.

My time as a fan divides into two time periods–before Larry Brown (31 years) and Larry Brown and the following years (36). The following charts show that the young bucks haven’t had to suffer nearly what some of us oldies have gone through. However, the success of recent years has spoiled young and old alike.

You can find these numbers on the internet, but you’d be hard put to find them put together as they are here. You can compare the individual coaches as well as the two different time periods in the first two charts.

Coach . .Years . Won/loss . . Win . . NCAA . . NCAA
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Record . . . . % . . Record . . Win %
Phog. . . . 4 . . . . .60 - 30 . . . .667. . . .3 - 1 . . . .750
Dick . . . . 8 . . . .121 - 82 . . . .596. . . .4 - 2 . . . .667
Ted. . . . 19 . . . .348 -182. . . .657 . . . 8 - 9 . . . .471
Totals. . .31. . . .529- 294 . . . .643 . .15 -12 . . . .556

Larry . . . . 5 . . . 135 -- 44. . . .754 . . .14 - 4 . . . .778
Roy . . . . 15 . . . 418- 101. . . .805 . . .35-14 . . . .714
Bill . . . . .16 . . . 473 - 106. . . .817. . . 38-15 . . . .717
Totals . . .36. . 1026 - 251. . . .806. . . 87-33 . . . .725

Cch. .2 Digit .Conf. .NCAA . S16. E8. . FF. Fin. Nat.
. . . Loss Yrs. .Ch**. T. Ap*. Ap*.Ap*.Ap*. Ap*. Ch**
Phog. . . .1. . . . .2 . . . . . 1 . . . .1 . . .1. . . 1 . . .1. . . 1
Dick . . . .4. . . . .2 . . . . . 2. . . . 2 . . .2. . . 1 . . .1. . . 0
Ted . . . . 8 . . . . 6 . . . . . 7. . . . 5. . . 3. . . 2. . . 0. . . 0
Totals . .13. . . 10. . . . .10. . . . 8 . . . 6. . . 4. . . 2. . . 1

Larry. . . . .3. . . . 1 . . . . . 5. . . . .3 . . . 2. . . 2. . .1. . . 1
Roy . . . . .3. . . . 9 . . . . 14 . . . . 9 . . . 5. . . 4. . .2. . . 0
Bill. . . . . . 2 . . .14 . . . . 16. . . .10 . . . 8. . . 2. . .2. . . 1
Totals. . . .8 . . .24 . . . . 35. . . .22 . . 15. . . 8. . .5. . . 2
*Appearances, **Championships

The past 36 years have been much better than the previous 31 years. Our younger fans haven’t had to experience some of the rough waters of those earlier years. Even though we had some great years during the Harp/Owens era (27 years), that’s when we also lost some ground for our overall records (when Phog retired in 1956, KU was 34 victories ahead of UK with 745). Dick/Ted would have a great year or two or three and then the bottom would drop out for a year or so or longer. We’ve not experienced that in the past 36 years. In fact we’ve gained quite a bit of lost ground back.

The nine worst seasons for the 31 years of P, D & T:
Dick . . 7-18 (.280) . . 11-14 (.440) . . 12-13 (.480)
. . . . . .13-12(.520)
Ted. . . 8-18 (.308) . . 11-15 (.423) . . 13-16 (.448)
. . . . . 13-14(.481) . . 13-13 (.500)

The nine worst seasons for the 36 years of L, R & B:
Larry. . .22-10 (.688) . . 25-11 (.694) . . 27-11 (.711)
Roy . . .19-12 (.613) . . 23-10 (.697) . . 24-10 (.706)
Bill . . . .25-10 (.714) . . 24– 9 (717). . . 26-10 (.722)

The worst eight seasons of the 31 years of P, D & T = 88-121 (.421), all non-winning seasons. Eight seasons were .500 or below 26% of the time and eleven seasons were below .600 for 35% of the time.

The worst eight seasons for the past 36 years = 189-83 (.692). Our last sub .700 season was 20 years ago and that was .697. No seasons below .600 and only one remotely close (.613). The L, R & B era has a 36 years of winning seasons streak going (current NCAA best). So youngsters, dry your crocodile tears, you don’t know what bad seasons are.

To give a little more insight to our history, note the 54 years previous to my becoming a Jayhawk fan in the next chart. The NCAA Tourney is not included as it began during Phog’s years, who was quite instrumental in helping get it started in 1939.
.
Coach . . Years . Won/loss . . win . . . Conf.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Record . . . . % . . .Champ
James . . . . 9 . . . . .55 - 60. . . .478 . .No Conf.
William. . . 10 . . . . 125- 59. . . .679 . . . . 5
Phog. . . . .35 . . . .539-195. . . .734 . . . 22
W & P . . ..45. . . . 664-275. . . .714 . . . 27
J, W& P . .54 . . . .719-314. . . .696 . . . 27

During the 14 years of this period, Phog went to three NCAA Tourneys and the Finals twice, winning one title. This was during the time only eight teams went to the tourney and increased to 16 in 1951 and 1952. It was much more difficult to get into the tournament in those days.

One final chart for all of our coaches’ total win/loss records:

Coach . Years . Losing. .500% .Winning . Non- . .Win
. . . . . . . . . . . .Seasons . Seas . .Seasons . Losing. . %
James . . . . 9 . . . . 6 . . . . . 0 . . . . . .3. . . . . .3. . . . .478
William . .. 10. . . . .2 . . . . . 0. . . . . . 8. . . . . .8. . . . .678
Phog . . . . 39. . . . .2 . . . . . 2 . . . . .35. . . . .37. . . . .727
Dick . . . . . .8. . . . .3 . . . . . 0 . . . . . .5. . . . . .5. . . . .596
Ted. . . . . .19. . . . .4. . . . . .1. . . . . 14. . . . . 15. . . . .657
Larry . . . . . 5. . . . .0. . . . . .0. . . . . . 5. . . . .. .5. . . . .754
Roy. . . . . .15. . . . .0. . . . . .0. . . . . 15. . . . . 15. . . . .804
Bill. . . . . . 16. . . . .0. . . . . .0. . . . . 16 . . . . .16. . . . .817
Totals. . . 121. . . .17. . . . . .3. . . . 101*. . . 104** . . .726***
*NCAA best by 3 . .**NCAA best by 4
***According to KU & NCAA official records our win/loss record is 2274 - 859 = .726, Wikipedia is in error – lists six too many losses (.724).

Our worse years were under James, Dick and Ted. All but four of our losing seasons were under them. James' bad record was due to his coaching philosophy, he didn’t believe in coaching. He didn’t go with the team to away games, for home games he refereed. He didn’t even coach at practices. He told Phog when he followed James as coach, “You don’t coach basketball.”

Phog coached at KU for the next two years and had a .826 win record. Coaching does make a difference! William continued with a good winning record and did much better than Dick or Ted. He had a 55-11 (.833) record his first six years. Perhaps he began to lose interest in coaching as he quit after four more years (his record dropped considerably) to give full time to his automobile dealership in Lawrence. He had been coaching for 23 years.

Even including James’ terrible record, James, William and Phog did a lot better than Dick and/or Ted. So KU’s worst years were under those two and they coached 27 of the 31 years of my early days as a Jayhawk fan.

During the past 36 years, no coach has an overall record of less than .754 and together they’ve averaged .806. Our current coach has the best average of any coach in KU history, .817. These are the best years of KU history! Maybe you can understand my excitement over the past 36 years.

My apologies to my Phoggy friend for this 4 million word post. My fingers just couldn’t stay off of the keyboard as my mind kept churning away. I’m joking. I make no apology for this post. Enjoy and learn some history from it. And be excited about KU’s best basketball years!

If I can get in another 14 years of KU Basketball like the past 36 I’d have a great run of 50 years plus the first 31 for a total of 81 years and I can die a really happy Jayhawk.
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 08:32 AM

A 60000 word diatribe...crops must been harvested...lol. Or he composes these ranting novellas while riding his combine over the alfafa fields of the western Kansas hinderlands. Its ok got to pass the time somehow. I just will leave it at yeah we will be pretty good this upcoming season....
Posted by: TheStarhawk

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 09:17 AM

Hey 52, thanks for directly responding to my post and taking the time to show us this thats cool of you. I'm flattered. For the record I hope you don't think I'm spoiled, or think the sky is falling. because neither is the case.

I'm just a concerned fan, who thinks that the recruiting pieces we have assembled for the next coming years... are sort of an assembly of random parts and a "Smorges Borg" of players that all are good but don't have what it takes to be great. That this investigation has really hurt our ability to attract recruits at the rate that we used to like during the golden years of ku basketball from 2007-2013 which was a really great stretch of KU basketball. to label it as the best of times, is I think not an accurate assessment of the situation. I would say that it is really good times for KU basketball. In contrast to our history. But it could be even better if our program got more serious about this. Are we okay with being the third best blue blood ever? or do we want to be the best?

You are a history guy. being an elderly gentleman. Duke dominated the 90's, UCLA the 70's, when is our time going to come when we dominate? Are we just content of being really really good or do we want to strive for greatness? I want the media to be talking about the greatness of KU basketball.
Posted by: madcapper

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 09:55 AM

Good piece 52 as i enjoy all the info. I am an old timer as well going back to 47.
Posted by: appyhawk

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 10:55 AM

Great post '52. As posts around here go (on a 1-10 scale) this one is a 10.
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 11:36 AM

Hey he puts in a great effort. I guess hardcore Jayhawk fans like myself knows most of the facts he posts. But they are probably beneficial to fringe or young fans....appy I was close to your stomping grounds last friday...coming back to KC from Independence,Ks didnt notice the turn off to Hwy 75 north. I was on Ks 400 and got to Fredonia before I realized my mistake..
Posted by: tmcats

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 12:01 PM

but then there's this ...

Posted by: madcapper

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 12:05 PM

HaHaHa, cat little once again showing no facts
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 12:14 PM

Timmay is an idiot....desperatly hanging on to some hope KU will get in trouble...sad is the individual that preys on the misfortunes of others...even a so called rival...
Posted by: AlOerter

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 07:35 PM

Timmy - Shut up.

52 - "Too much, time on my hands...it's ticking away with my sanity."
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 09:22 PM

That is long gone with you discus head...sanity that is...
Posted by: AlOerter

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 09:43 PM

You may be right - I may be crazy.
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 09:49 PM

If your the lunatic I been looking for....dammmm we be old...lol
Posted by: moose1

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/13/19 11:41 PM

Go easy on Timmay. Clearly his hate of KU is all he has in life.
Posted by: tmcats

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 10:11 AM

Originally Posted By: moose1
Go easy on Timmay. Clearly his hate of KU is all he has in life.


nah, i don't hate ku. i loathe bill self and his cheating program because he and others of his ilk are ruining college hoops, a game i have loved all my life. going into a gym to watch guys purchased by adidas beat your kids is distressing, yes. and then to parade those championships as something special when they're nothing more than meaningless buys like fancy new shoes off the shelf is beyond irritating. i hope he gets his ass hammered by the ncaa like a ten-penny nail. i'll smile. maybe toast a beer. but i doubt it happens because bill self has mastered the art of "we good?" plausible deniability like no other. he and his program are pathetic examples of what money and power beget in college sports.



Posted by: madcapper

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 10:31 AM

That's it Tommy, let that jealousy and hate out. It is good for you to admit it and almost understandable coming from such an inferior program. One day you may be able to even admit your inferior complex.
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 10:41 AM

He is about as dumb as that Tommy Boy character..Timmay probably wont be around that much longer and I will be glad when that happens...I mean KyJelly was a bit of a troll but he was much easier to take than this purp hayseed and his ugly women pics...Timmay is about as strange of a troll there is...sad little man.
Posted by: tmcats

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 10:47 AM

being dirty is not my goal in life. i don't hate ku. i loathe bill self and his cheating program because he and others of his ilk are ruining college hoops, a game i have loved all my life. going into a gym to watch guys purchased by adidas beat your kids is distressing, yes. and then to parade those championships as something special when they're nothing more than meaningless buys like fancy new shoes off the shelf is beyond irritating. i hope he gets his ass hammered by the ncaa like a ten-penny nail. i'll smile. maybe toast a beer. but i doubt it happens because bill self has mastered the art of "we good?" plausible deniability like no other. he and his program are pathetic examples of what money and power beget in college sports.



Posted by: Jayhawk1952

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 10:59 AM

It's a good thing that the catty mouse is not a prosecuting attorney. A ton of innocent people would be in jail without any evidence, except for what he fabricated.
Posted by: Jayhawk1952

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 11:36 AM

Thanks for your kind remarks concerning my post. Yes, I'm a history nut. History gives us an overall view that exceeds what we see in the present. Knowing history can help us to understand that the present may not be as bad as some may lead us to believe. Of course, there is also the matter of interpretation and two people can look at the same facts and come up with a different interpretation of them. You did say that Duke dominated the 90's. The fact is that KU was the winning-est school in the 90's. Some think you start with 1990 and finish with 1999. I believe the correct way is to start with 1991 and finish with 2000. Here's both. You can see that KU was easily the winning-est team in the 90's either way:

Years. . . . . . . KU . . . . . . . . . . . .Duke
1990 - 1999 . 286 - 60 = .827 . . 261 - 78 = .777
1991 - 2000 . 280 - 65 = .812 . . 271 - 71 = .786
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 12:58 PM

Speaking of KYblueblood...where has he been. Hope his health hasnt turned for the worse...
Posted by: tmcats

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 01:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Jayhawk1952
It's a good thing that the catty mouse is not a prosecuting attorney. A ton of innocent people would be in jail without any evidence, except for what he fabricated.


the ncaa is going to be on ku like stink on hot garbage, in fact they already are according to reports. so, i wouldn't be quite so condescending right now if a j'hawk fan.

Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 01:35 PM

Man where you find dem ugly women ...condescending comes with our dominance over your bball program over the yrs...KU will get a slap on the hand...thats about it...
Posted by: moose1

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: tmcats
being dirty is not my goal in life. i don't hate ku. i loathe bill self and his cheating program because he and others of his ilk are ruining college hoops, a game i have loved all my life. going into a gym to watch guys purchased by adidas beat your kids is distressing, yes. and then to parade those championships as something special when they're nothing more than meaningless buys like fancy new shoes off the shelf is beyond irritating. i hope he gets his ass hammered by the ncaa like a ten-penny nail. i'll smile. maybe toast a beer. but i doubt it happens because bill self has mastered the art of "we good?" plausible deniability like no other. he and his program are pathetic examples of what money and power beget in college sports.



You are such a hypocrite. How did Beasley get to K State? I am not saying all this is right, but do not be all high and mighty thinking KSU is squeaky clean.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/28/16378...tin-pay-players
Posted by: Jayhawk1952

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
Speaking of KYblueblood...where has he been. Hope his health hasnt turned for the worse...

Wondering the same thing. Hope he's still around.
Posted by: tmcats

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 03:40 PM

Originally Posted By: moose1
Originally Posted By: tmcats
being dirty is not my goal in life. i don't hate ku. i loathe bill self and his cheating program because he and others of his ilk are ruining college hoops, a game i have loved all my life. going into a gym to watch guys purchased by adidas beat your kids is distressing, yes. and then to parade those championships as something special when they're nothing more than meaningless buys like fancy new shoes off the shelf is beyond irritating. i hope he gets his ass hammered by the ncaa like a ten-penny nail. i'll smile. maybe toast a beer. but i doubt it happens because bill self has mastered the art of "we good?" plausible deniability like no other. he and his program are pathetic examples of what money and power beget in college sports.



You are such a hypocrite. How did Beasley get to K State? I am not saying all this is right, but do not be all high and mighty thinking KSU is squeaky clean.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/28/16378...tin-pay-players


frank was sent packing. he's as crooked as self, just not as experienced or shifty.

Posted by: AlOerter

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 04:52 PM

I guess the shoe companies don't think k-state is worth spending money on players. Maybe it just cost them too much coin to induce someone to go there.

All elite players get offers from unscrupulous people. When you have a high profile program, those are the players that are going to be interested in your school because of national exposure and a chance to win titles.

The shoe money is more about "remember me when you go pro".
Posted by: 58hawk

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/14/19 06:28 PM

If you don't like Self then why bother posting on this board?
Posted by: moose1

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/15/19 08:34 AM

Originally Posted By: 58hawk
If you don't like Self then why bother posting on this board?


Eecause he is a troll.
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/15/19 09:25 AM

You probably meant Emaw hes a troll....
Posted by: MICHHAWK

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/15/19 10:24 AM

Originally Posted By: tmcats

the ncaa is going to be on ku like stink on hot garbage, in fact they already are according to reports.


You are right. We got something coming. I don't know what yet. But something.

Those that refuse to accept it or acknowledge it are just fooling themselves. I believe it is called a defense mechanism.

The ncaa was forced to sit on the sidelines with egg all over their face while the trials played themselves out. The trials are now over. The ncaa is now gonna get some.

Somethings coming. I prefer they get on with it so we can move on and put this episode behind us.
Posted by: Jayhawk1952

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/15/19 10:54 AM

Originally Posted By: PHOGUSHER
KU will get a slap on the hand...thats about it...

I tend to agree with Phoggy. If anything happens, it won't be much. De Sousa has already been punished (excessively). The Zion situation is basically innuendo. A lot has been claimed for a text message which the NCAA doesn't have access to as the Feds didn't use it and the NCAA can't get to it. KU benched Preston as soon as they smelled something fishy and he never played a minute. I'm not aware of any other real recent problems.
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/15/19 01:20 PM

Ancient one percieves it correctly...stoic boneheads a.k.a. michhawk predicts the sky is falling scenario. If somehow we get nailed that might be the straw that broke the camels back for Self....he will bail and I would not blame him...
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 06/18/19 10:53 AM

Originally Posted By: moose1
Go easy on Timmay. Clearly his hate of KU is all he has in life.


Bill Self - "I was shocked to read that something could be said that was not specifically intended for anyone, but it made all 20 schools that were mentioned in the FBI deal and their fan base feel like it was.”


That's a good point, Bill.
Posted by: Jayhawk1952

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 08/17/19 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: AlOerter
Timmy - Shut up.

52 - "Too much, time on my hands...it's ticking away with my sanity."


I don't know what your age is, but I'd guess you're getting on up there too with a posting name like, "AlOerter." I well remember him as I closely followed the men's track and field teams back then. They had some real winners. Your using his name identifies you with those days.
Posted by: PHOGUSHER

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 08/18/19 09:28 AM

52= Hemlock Homie....great detective prowess...Oerter is late 50s or early 60s...a true American and Jayhawk.
Posted by: AlOerter

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 08/18/19 12:03 PM

Good guess Phog. Just became a sexagenarian.

52 - You may have had me a little older than that. I have a number of reasons for using big Al for my moniker - not the least of which he was a legendary Jayhawk.
Posted by: Jayhawk1952

Re: Wake Up! It’s The Best of Times - 08/18/19 01:45 PM

Yes. Oerter was there from 54 - 58. Great Jayhawk.