Congratulations to Joe Dineen!

Posted by: Kman_blue

Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 03:34 PM

Joe Dineen earned 2nd team All-America honors from Sports Illustrated!

Sports Illustrated All-America Teams

Pretty damn impressive. I think this may be our first guy to garner All-America status from any major source since 2009 or so.
Posted by: KUHawkhead

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 03:46 PM

It tells you that there is talent on this squad. What it will take to have it realized in games is beyond my comprehension and faith with this "coaching" staff.

RCJHKU!
Posted by: jhawkblue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 03:55 PM

Im happy for Joe Dineen his effort showed really showed this year, but in no way is he one of the top Lbs in the country his tackle numbers were a product of his effort yes, but mostly a product of the failure of the def as a whole to be able to get off the field on third down and the offenses inability to sustain any drive

our def played more plays than almost any other team in the country so yes someone is going to have a lot of tackles

Dineen was by far the best player on our def, but not one of the top in the country he would not be on 1st or 2nd string on the top defenses in the country
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: jhawkblue
Im happy for Joe Dineen his effort showed really showed this year, but in no way is he one of the top Lbs in the country his tackle numbers were a product of his effort yes, but mostly a product of the failure of the def as a whole to be able to get off the field on third down and the offenses inability to sustain any drive

our def played more plays than almost any other team in the country so yes someone is going to have a lot of tackles

Dineen was by far the best player on our def, but not one of the top in the country he would not be on 1st or 2nd string on the top defenses in the country
+1
Posted by: WayOldHawk

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 06:04 PM

JD has another year and I think he'll soon have a degree. Seems like a perfect time to get away from this mess and see what he's really got by moving on to a school that both needs him and cares enough puts something representing FBS football on the field.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: WayOldHawk
JD has another year and I think he'll soon have a degree. Seems like a perfect time to get away from this mess and see what he's really got by moving on to a school that both needs him and cares enough puts something representing FBS football on the field.
No way in hell Dineen even briefly considers transferring.
Posted by: 58hawk

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 06:44 PM

Jesus. Some good news and people have to piss on it.
Posted by: moose1

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: jhawkblue
Im happy for Joe Dineen his effort showed really showed this year, but in no way is he one of the top Lbs in the country his tackle numbers were a product of his effort yes, but mostly a product of the failure of the def as a whole to be able to get off the field on third down and the offenses inability to sustain any drive

our def played more plays than almost any other team in the country so yes someone is going to have a lot of tackles

Dineen was by far the best player on our def, but not one of the top in the country he would not be on 1st or 2nd string on the top defenses in the country


+1

I hate to agree but I think he is just nice player on a bad team. He is no Ben Heeney and I don't recall Ben receiving similar accolades.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/07/17 10:14 PM

So, you're saying fellow Big 12 coaches and Sports Illustrated don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to college football?

Kind of an outlandish point of view IMHO.
Posted by: jhawkblue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 03:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
So, you're saying fellow Big 12 coaches and Sports Illustrated don't know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to college football?

Kind of an outlandish point of view IMHO.


as I stated I am happy for him and the fact that his effort was rewarded but my point is there are 75+ LBs that are better/more deserving than Dineen but they played for better coached defenses that were not on the filed 100+ plays a game going against 2nd and 3rd team most of the 4 qtr when opposing teams were just running the ball with 3rd string RB to kill the clock so yes he had awesome stats but more the results of a poor def system and bad coaching

as far as the sports illustrated people go, there are 130 FBS teams each played 12 games just how many KU games do you think they actually watched (I guarantee not as many as I did) yes Dineen is a good player who had an outlandish number of tackles but I feel that that there were far more deserving LBs than him

and if my point of view is so outlandish just ask yourself if Dineen was at Wisc, Mich or any other top def does he see the field? does he have his high number of tackles? does sports illustrated even know who he was except for maybe someones back up

or ask yourself if KU had a better DC and Dineen had better players around him does he still have 100+ tackles or more likely 55-70 with the reduced opportunities and others actually making a tackle or two, and then does he make anyones ALL ANYTHING list
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 04:36 AM

Apparently Schmuck is the final word poster on these things. Don’t dare say anything like “tackles show the lopsided defense at Kansas”.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 04:52 AM

Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Jesus. Some good news and people have to piss on it.
JC, what about that!! It’s just a twist on the news about JD. Has some truth to it...
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 07:23 AM

Originally Posted By: jhawkblue
as I stated I am happy for him and the fact that his effort was rewarded but my point is there are 75+ LBs that are better/more deserving than Dineen but they played for better coached defenses that were not on the filed 100+ plays a game going against 2nd and 3rd team most of the 4 qtr when opposing teams were just running the ball with 3rd string RB to kill the clock so yes he had awesome stats but more the results of a poor def system and bad coaching
OK, so your opinion is that Dineen is an average LB that somehow Sports Illustrated thought was 1 of the 4 best LB'ers in the country.

And in response to the 2nd part in bold, so the opposing Big 12 coaches who coached against KU and Dineen and watched what he did against whom voted him 2nd team All-Big 12 by mistake or out of pity or because they didn't realize how and why he got some of his stats or they thought he did most of his work against 3rd stringers trying to run out the clock so deserved to be 2nd team All-Big 12? Doesn't add up to me.

If what you say about him being a "nice" LB'er on a bad D who only racked up so many stats because he was on the field for 100 plays against a lot of the time 2nd and 3rd stringers is true then why doesn't the best player on the worst D every year rack up huge stats? Why aren't they littering All Conference and All American teams? I think you're short selling Dineen quite a bit here.

Originally Posted By: jhawkblue
as far as the sports illustrated people go, there are 130 FBS teams each played 12 games just how many KU games do you think they actually watched (I guarantee not as many as I did) yes Dineen is a good player who had an outlandish number of tackles but I feel that that there were far more deserving LBs than him
Fair enough. I don't know how SI determined who to put on their All-American teams, but it seems to me they used more than just his stats to do it, else Fish would have been on their AA team as he had some huge stats too while on a bad KU team who's D was on the field 100 snaps per game and a lot of the time against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

Originally Posted By: jhawkblue
and if my point of view is so outlandish just ask yourself if Dineen was at Wisc, Mich or any other top def does he see the field? does he have his high number of tackles? does sports illustrated even know who he was except for maybe someones back up

or ask yourself if KU had a better DC and Dineen had better players around him does he still have 100+ tackles or more likely 55-70 with the reduced opportunities and others actually making a tackle or two, and then does he make anyones ALL ANYTHING list
The outlandish part of your opinion to me was that you are basically saying that both the Big 12 coaches (the ones who actually coached against him and saw him play against their own teams in person) AND SI got it wrong. If your opinion was just that you thought SI got it wrong and especially if you specifically had a few other LB'ers in mind(not some amorphous LB'er on some top 10 or top 20 team who by default has to be better) that you thought were better, that wouldn't be outlandish at all but rather a reasonable opinion open for some debate maybe, but still reasonable IMHO.

Your opinion though comes across more like this, Dineen is an average LB'er who only looks good because our D sucked and was poorly coached so there has to be 75+ or more LB'ers out there more deserving for All-American honors than him, including quite a few within the Big 12 as he doesn't deserve that honor either. Maybe you didn't mean it like that, but that's how it reads.
Posted by: vmlb

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 08:00 AM

Wish the "haters" could make up their minds. Coach a player up to post season accolades, then later say they can't coach.

Let's hope he isn't named big 12 preseason DPOY in 2018.
Posted by: 58hawk

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 10:13 AM

Can't wait to see his name on the Ring of Honor
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 10:21 AM

Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Can't wait to see his name on the Ring of Honor
Cart before the horse time? I know how much you like horse references...
Posted by: jhawkblue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 12:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue

And in response to the 2nd part in bold, so the opposing Big 12 coaches who coached against KU and Dineen and watched what he did against whom voted him 2nd team All-Big 12 by mistake or out of pity or because they didn't realize how and why he got some of his stats or they thought he did most of his work against 3rd stringers trying to run out the clock so deserved to be 2nd team All-Big 12? Doesn't add up to me.




Your opinion though comes across more like this, Dineen is an average LB'er who only looks good because our D sucked and was poorly coached so there has to be 75+ or more LB'ers out there more deserving for All-American honors than him, including quite a few within the Big 12 as he doesn't deserve that honor either. Maybe you didn't mean it like that, but that's how it reads.


surely you are not naive enough to think that any Big 12 coach actually voted themselves Lincoln Riley and staff had a conf champ game and now a playoff to worry about do you really think that he or any other coaching staff working on recruiting and/or bowl prep took time to vote no just like the coaches poll they had a GA do it and they may or may not have even looked at it.

actually I think that Dineen is a real solid LB who shows lots of effort on the field and I if he were on a better def thats all anyone would think, but he just happened to be on a very bad def that resulted in an exorbitant amount of tackles stats

if you disagree and believe him to be one of the top few LBs in the country thats fine, everyone has the right to their opinion
Posted by: beenahawk

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By: jhawkblue
actually I think that Dineen is a real solid LB who shows lots of effort on the field and I if he were on a better def thats all anyone would think, but he just happened to be on a very bad def that resulted in an exorbitant amount of tackles stats

if you disagree and believe him to be one of the top few LBs in the country thats fine, everyone has the right to their opinion


I tend to agree. Dineen is a good LB, no question about that, but no way does he make that many tackles on even an average defensive unit so I am not about ready to put him along side Willie Pless in the Ring of Honor.
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 05:41 PM

Congrats to Dineen. He was the rock of an ill fated defense. He did his best, performed well and that should be commended and rewarded.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 09:48 PM

Originally Posted By: jhawkblue
surely you are not naive enough to think that any Big 12 coach actually voted themselves Lincoln Riley and staff had a conf champ game and now a playoff to worry about do you really think that he or any other coaching staff working on recruiting and/or bowl prep took time to vote no just like the coaches poll they had a GA do it and they may or may not have even looked at it.

actually I think that Dineen is a real solid LB who shows lots of effort on the field and I if he were on a better def thats all anyone would think, but he just happened to be on a very bad def that resulted in an exorbitant amount of tackles stats

if you disagree and believe him to be one of the top few LBs in the country thats fine, everyone has the right to their opinion


OK, so it looks like you agree with my initial assessment of your opinion now, that SI and the Big 12 coaches don't sh|it about football, because now you're saying that the Big 12 All-Conference teams are just some random GA's opinions.

Do I think coaches are putting in significant time to make their votes? No, but I also don't think some GA on each team is just voting for their personal favorites or something either. I think there's a little more to the All-Conference teams than that otherwise, why even have them if they're so arbitrary and meaningless?

Like I said about the SI All-American honor, I could see an argument about how this other LB'er or that one (again some specific LB'ers by name) was better and thus deserved the honor instead of Dineen.

Again, if he's just a real solid LB'er who shows lots of effort on a very bad def he's not getting SI All-American honors nor even Big 12 All-Conference honors IMO. He's also not leading the nation in solo tackles or in the top 3 in the nation in tackles and TFL's either. I think you're selling him way short here.

I'm not saying he's the perfect LB'er or the very best in the country. He has his weaknesses as I've pointed out several times over the season. I also don't think there's 75+ other LB'ers out there better than him either. Personally, I think he's proven to be a worthy All-Conference level LB'er and legitimately an arguable candidate for national honors. You don't put up the stats he's put up no matter what kind of D you played on without some serious talent.

I think there's been a ridiculous season long unwarranted attack on his talent and skill set and I don't get it. Not saying you were part of that, but your opinion of him being just average or merely a recipient of great stats because the D he played on was bad and he plays with a lot of effort is in the same vein as that IMHO. I think his stats and performance on the field speaks for themselves as do the honors he's been getting since the end of the regular season and fly in the face of the season long low opinion of him several KU fans have.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: beenahawk
I tend to agree. Dineen is a good LB, no question about that, but no way does he make that many tackles on even an average defensive unit so I am not about ready to put him along side Willie Pless in the Ring of Honor.
Now, don't go getting all crazy here!

Even being named a consensus first team All-American LB'er wouldn't necessarily put him on the level of Willie Pless!

Willie Pless was only named the very best LB'er of all time within the Big 8 by the Big 8 when it officially ended upon the merger of the remains of the SWC with it. That's of the entire history of the Big 8! Pless is a once in 3 or 4 generations type talent IMHO. Guys like him just don't come along very often.

As for how many tackles Dineen would have had on a better D, I've got no idea. I think his TFL numbers being #3 in the nation show that he'd still have a ton of tackles but there's no way to know for sure of course.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/08/17 10:14 PM

Just out of curiosity I looked up the top 5 players in solo tackles over the past 4 years. I counted up all of the LB'ers in the top 5 over those years. There were 11 who've graduated and another 3 that are still playing college ball. Out of the 11 who've moved on, 9 made it to the NFL.

9 out of the past 11 LB'ers to be in the top 5 in the nation in solo tackles made it to the NFL and all but 1 (he's playing in the CFL now) are currently on NFL rosters. 1 is former KU great Ben Heeney BTW.

They played on all sorts of D's too. From real good ones to bad ones.

Dineen finished 1st in the country this year in solo tackles for reference.

Just an interesting set of facts IMO.
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/09/17 11:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Just out of curiosity I looked up the top 5 players in solo tackles over the past 4 years. I counted up all of the LB'ers in the top 5 over those years. There were 11 who've graduated and another 3 that are still playing college ball. Out of the 11 who've moved on, 9 made it to the NFL.

9 out of the past 11 LB'ers to be in the top 5 in the nation in solo tackles made it to the NFL and all but 1 (he's playing in the CFL now) are currently on NFL rosters. 1 is former KU great Ben Heeney BTW.

They played on all sorts of D's too. From real good ones to bad ones.

Dineen finished 1st in the country this year in solo tackles for reference.

Just an interesting set of facts IMO.


No disrespect to JD but I personally don't think he ever starts in the NFL. Probably won't even get drafted but will sign somewhere free agent. He will probably make a 53, but get used on special teams and will probably be solid. If Heeney has a tough time starting in the NFL I don't think JD can or will; i think Heeney is the better, stronger, more physical version of JD.

Now Daniel Wise is another story. He will declare for the draft this year and prolly get gone in teh 4-5 round to none other than the New England Patriots. He is their type of player among other Factors(wink wink). That will be the ceremonious final nail in the coffin for beaty, as his D can't afford to lose the best player on D that was worst in the nation.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/09/17 03:02 PM

You could very well be right on all of that. I wouldn't be surprised if it plays out similarly to how you lay it out.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Congratulations to Joe Dineen! - 12/10/17 08:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Jman1
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Just out of curiosity I looked up the top 5 players in solo tackles over the past 4 years. I counted up all of the LB'ers in the top 5 over those years. There were 11 who've graduated and another 3 that are still playing college ball. Out of the 11 who've moved on, 9 made it to the NFL.

9 out of the past 11 LB'ers to be in the top 5 in the nation in solo tackles made it to the NFL and all but 1 (he's playing in the CFL now) are currently on NFL rosters. 1 is former KU great Ben Heeney BTW.

They played on all sorts of D's too. From real good ones to bad ones.

Dineen finished 1st in the country this year in solo tackles for reference.

Just an interesting set of facts IMO.


No disrespect to JD but I personally don't think he ever starts in the NFL. Probably won't even get drafted but will sign somewhere free agent. He will probably make a 53, but get used on special teams and will probably be solid. If Heeney has a tough time starting in the NFL I don't think JD can or will; i think Heeney is the better, stronger, more physical version of JD.

Now Daniel Wise is another story. He will declare for the draft this year and prolly get gone in teh 4-5 round to none other than the New England Patriots. He is their type of player among other Factors(wink wink). That will be the ceremonious final nail in the coffin for beaty, as his D can't afford to lose the best player on D that was worst in the nation.
It's a shame that Beaty can't be offered a buyout rather than be painted with the same brush as Zenger next year.