Beaty's qualified apology

Posted by: casey

Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 11:54 AM

To me it basically came off as "I'm sorry my players are so passionate and intense."

Is it just me?
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 12:06 PM

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2017/nov/20/beaty-apologizes-oklahoma-ku-fans-big-12-and-colle/

Beaty failed to apologize for not being a better human being.
Posted by: casey

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 01:27 PM

OU announced today Mayfield won't start their next game.

Your move Beaty.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 01:34 PM

Originally Posted By: casey
OU announced today Mayfield won't start their next game.

Your move Beaty.
"won't start" isn't a big deal, so Beaty pressure isn't there to get his players off the field symbolically either. Baker plays 98% of next week's game.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 02:27 PM

They also removed Mayfield from being a captain on Senior day.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 02:40 PM

IMHO about all of this is it was a boneheaded decision by the KU captains on the spur of the moment. They did it for good reasons, but it was the wrong decision. 20-21 year olds, even captains of P-5 football teams make boneheaded decisions all the time. Hold them accountable in whatever way the head coach deems necessary and move on.

I do like the fact that it showed those guys have some fight in them and some pride, even if it came out the wrong way. It shows they're competitors and they're not satisfied nor happy about how things have turned out. I like that part so I don't have a big problem with this. Like I said, hold them accountable in some way, but I really don't think this is a huge deal.

I also don't think what Mayfield did is a huge deal. To me it was more disrespectful and unsportsmanlike than what our players did and I get you don't want that kind of behavior seen on national TV or by younger ones in the stands, but to me it's just part of the game. It's the kind of things that fiery highly competitive guys in their teens and 20's do.

Boneheaded and wrong a lot of the time but it shows their passion and competitiveness. Of course it can get out of hand and that's why guys have to be held accountable. I guess I've got thick skin because I always enjoyed that kind of back and forth when I played and don't mind it too much now either.

Then again, I played on a few Bad News Bears type teams growing up too and maybe that affects my feelings on some of this. Some of those teams were bad, but we didn't take sh|it from anyone and wouldn't back down from anyone either. Lots of trash talking went on. Didn't play dirty or take cheap shots, but we had enough guys who could put a (perfectly legal) lick on you if you tried to disrespect us.. Most teams respected us in the end.

Heck, maybe this thing even worked to some degree as Mayfield had his worst 1st half of the entire season against us. Post game he even cited this game as being a "competitive game" as a reason for his antics on the sidelines during the game. It apparently got into his head some and possibly affected his play.
Posted by: casey

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 02:47 PM

We disagree, Kman, but your points have merit.

What bugs me more than the original dumb act is that Dineen's been the only one (including Beaty) who truly seems to regret what happened. Armstrong and Wise have been silent, and Beaty isn't holding anyone accountable. Maybe out of fear of losing Armstrong and Wise to early entry?

We all make mistakes, the question becomes whether we're willing to own them. This crew just doesn't.
Posted by: casey

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 03:07 PM

Keegan posting a photo of sixth graders shaking hands at a pregame coin toss is high quality trolling.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 03:07 PM

In all fairness you don't know what actions have been or will be taken by coach Beaty behind closed doors about this.

That may no be enough for you(if it remains a behind the scenes thing), but I'd be very surprised if nothing has been or will be done.


Maybe coach Beaty could pull an old balls and suspend them for 1 week AFTER the season ended and during their holiday break? LOL

Old balls is a classy guy in the eyes of most, right?
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 03:07 PM

So called passion belongs on field not pregame in front of the kids right there. The fact that our coach hasn't disciplined them during and after the fact bugs the crap out of me. And I'm not thinskinned about it. Doesn't belong in the college game EVER.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: casey
Keegan posting a photo of sixth graders shaking hands at a pregame coin toss is high quality trolling.
Just Keegan with his usual click bait crap.

He's almost as bad as those top 15 type lists on sbnation which are just click bait slideshows to generate 10 clicks instead of 1 per user for those stupid lists.
Posted by: casey

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
In all fairness you don't know what actions have been or will be taken by coach Beaty behind closed doors about this.

That may no be enough for you(if it remains a behind the scenes thing), but I'd be very surprised if nothing has been or will be done.


We'll see.
Posted by: namohcan_99

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 03:57 PM

I think the fact that this is all we have to talk about is a good indicator of where KU football is. The fact that the captains wouldn't shake Mayfield's hand really didn't bother me at all. The late hit on him, not very smart, and if he had been ejected, I wouldn't have minded. I agree with the comment from Kman in that this showed some competitiveness. Too bad our offense couldn't get it together. For a half it almost reminded me of the days when KU had one unit like the defense working, but the offense wasn't, or the offense was working but the defense wasn't. But ultimately it felt like a normal Beaty team towards the end of it. Complacent and defeated. If anything, what I took from that game was Oklahoma was overrated and KU has the talent but not the leadership.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 03:59 PM

Beaty may install a walk-on to be captain this week. Then when it’s cointoss time he will have him knee cap the other team. But, it’s a secret!! Don’t tell.

So kman you feel it’s no big deal to embarrass all of the university this way?
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 04:23 PM

I personally think think the guy should hold a presser ASAFP, apologize for his laundry list of inadequacies, including, but not limited to:

Poor player development
Poor game preparation
Poor game management
Poor play calling
Poor discipline
Poor motivation
Poor accountability
Poor offensive cohesion
Poor Tackling
Poor punting
Poor kick returning
Poor punt returning
Poor SPORTSMANSHIP

Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k

THAT would be a "qualified apology" IMO. Not this horseSh@t, half baked apology and reaction to possibly one of the most embarrassing moments in school history and fielding probably the worst college football team in the modern era.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 04:29 PM

You forgot poor blocking by the o line
Posted by: namohcan_99

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 04:41 PM

Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
You forgot poor blocking by the o line


Sorry, KUCO, I forgot that one, but that would have to be categorized as "completely nonexistent blocking by the OLine". Saying "poor" gives the OLine way too much street Cred
Posted by: track

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.

Good post. I am unsure how important zenger is to the huge fund raising effort. Is he instrumental in raising money or would a new AD be able to handle the job. These are questions only key donors can answer. Maybe they love zenger or maybe the don’t. I don’t know
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Originally Posted By: Jman1
Then take the HIGH ROAD and officially resign, giving back to the U the unwarranted salary increase of $800k


Zenger should apologize for that and for his own pay increase. If your boss gave you a pay raise for doing your job with limited results, would you say no thank you and give it back? I know I wouldn't. I'd question the measures of success for my job and wonder why I'm working so hard. Chuckles and Milk Toast knew a sweet gig when they saw it. Beaty is just doing the same thing but for half as much.

Zenger's measures of success was always priority no. 1, develop the KU football team. Has that goal been met? No. Will it be met next year, barring some kind of a miracle, no. There has always been this argument on the board of keeping on bad coaches so we can entertain good coaches who know we'll stick by a coach when things are down. I am not saying that we should keep Beaty, but if that's the reason we do it, I think it would be fair to cut Zenger. It would be the first step to replacing Beaty. Give Beaty that year without the boss who hired him and then see where he stands following that season. I think as fans we want Beaty to feel uncomfortable. Zenger's days are done. I don't see why we'd keep him just to hire another coach. He's hired two flops and I don't want to trust him to hire the third. He seems pushed into things by the donors and that's not been working for us here.

Good post. I am unsure how important zenger is to the huge fund raising effort. Is he instrumental in raising money or would a new AD be able to handle the job. These are questions only key donors can answer. Maybe they love zenger or maybe the don’t. I don’t know
You wanted to change the topic to get away from the job Beaty fails at. Good job!!
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
So kman you feel it’s no big deal to embarrass all of the university this way?
I don't think it was as embarrassing to the school as you apparently do.

In my opinion it's being overblown in large part because it happened with a #3 ranked OU and involved their Heisman Trophy leading candidate QB. Otherwise this probably gets some local play and some press in the opposing team's town for a couple days and then almost nobody remembers it in a couple weeks.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 09:56 PM

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
If anything, what I took from that game was Oklahoma was overrated and KU has the talent but not the leadership.
Interesting take away.

I disagree a bit on the defeated and complacent part. I thought the D just looked absolutely gassed in the 4th quarter but I still saw guys fighting hard out there.

We did hold Mayfield to his worst half in 2 years in the first half as well as holding OU 131 yards under their average and almost 4 points under their average. If we had normal type depth on our D, I bet our numbers would have been even better as guys would still be relatively fresh in the 4th quarter. Our D more or less held OU to a similar output that the best D in the conference (TCU) did. Our O sucked a lot more than TCU's did against OU is the main difference between the 2 games.

The O moved the ball and did some things well in the first half, but couldn't finish drives and sputtered out in the 2nd half for the most part. The OL still has a lot of issues and injuries which have killed us all year long. They may have become mentally defeated at some point in the 2nd half, but I don't think the D ever did.
Posted by: namohcan_99

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 10:58 PM

I will amend my statement to say that some players are still fighting and giving it their all, but at some point early in the 4th, KU defense was gassed and frustrated. Frustration leads to a lack of effort by some. Honestly I think the defense was pretty good overall, but we aren't anyway consistent. I think we lack proper motivation. I don't know what Beaty's goals are for the team but the OU game confused me. If we can give that kind of effort in every game, why don't we? Some players do. And back when some of them were calling out the players who don't, I think bolsters my point that there is a lack of a team mission.

I don't think Beaty is our guy. I still wish we had gotten Bohl before he went to Wyoming. Seems like KU is afraid of appearing impatient and not giving coaches a fair shake. I think we have done that with Beaty. I'm not sure who we go after now. I've lost confidence in the AD a while back ago. Nothing against Zenger, but I don't think he's going to right the ship for football. If something happened with Self, would you want him putting in the Charlie Weis of the Basketball world?

I don't know the Chancellor and I think if Zenger isn't cut loose after this season or soon, then I won't have a very favorable opinion of him either.

Beaty has really struggled getting talent from Texas and that was one of the bigger parts of hiring him was knowing how well connected he was down in the Texas high school programs. Beaty is no Mangino and he's no Mason. I also don't like that we aren't making inroads on the Kansas recruiting battle. I think that's a little more difficult. And what happened with Oklahoma recruits? Mangino had a decent plan of success in those areas and he started getting into others, including California and Florida. Even Weis made strides in Hawaii. I guess maybe that's why we are more in Mississippi, too? I don't know. I have not followed our recruiting closely for a while because the recruits have been mostly underwhelming. I feel bad that we cut Bender loose. I like him and I like Stanley, but we should have picked one and stayed with him.

I'm worried that Beaty will start cutting staff and/or staff will start jumping ship soon after this season is over.
Posted by: iowaboy

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/20/17 11:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
In all fairness you don't know what actions have been or will be taken by coach Beaty behind closed doors about this.

That may no be enough for you(if it remains a behind the scenes thing), but I'd be very surprised if nothing has been or will be done.


Maybe coach Beaty could pull an old balls and suspend them for 1 week AFTER the season ended and during their holiday break? LOL

Old balls is a classy guy in the eyes of most, right?


The poor sportsmanship by not shaking hands happened in public therefore Beatty should make the consequences available to the public, not behind closed doors. KU missed a great opportunity as if they would od shaken hands they would of been Oklahoma's equal......................at least for 5 minutes anyway. IB
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/21/17 08:59 AM

Originally Posted By: iowaboy
The poor sportsmanship by not shaking hands happened in public therefore Beatty should make the consequences available to the public, not behind closed doors. KU missed a great opportunity as if they would od shaken hands they would of been Oklahoma's equal......................at least for 5 minutes anyway. IB
Poor sportsmanship is when the home team overwaters the field before a game with Weis' squad to hopefully cause a win due to lack of long spikes being available to the visitors squad. Field froze over in the "Armpit of America" City, Iowa...state won fair and square.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/22/17 02:59 AM

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I don't know the Chancellor and I think if Zenger isn't cut loose after this season or soon, then I won't have a very favorable opinion of him either.
As I don't think this is happening, I guess your opinion of Girod isn't going to be a favorable one.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Beaty has really struggled getting talent from Texas and that was one of the bigger parts of hiring him was knowing how well connected he was down in the Texas high school programs.
By my count, there's 29 recruited scholarship players from the state of Texas on the team that coach Beaty recruited to KU. That list includes Armstrong, Wise, Adeniji, Sims, Fairs, Harrell, and Dom Williams among them. I don't think we've struggled too much recruiting Texas to this point.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I also don't like that we aren't making inroads on the Kansas recruiting battle.
We've got 23 guys on the roster from the state of Kansas and 12 were recruited scholarship guys (I include Ribordy here). Seems like a lot of the very top talent within the state though is going out of state still. (i.e. not to KU nor ksu)

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
And what happened with Oklahoma recruits?
We've got 4 recruited scholarship guys from the state of Oklahoma that coach Beaty has recruited and another couple walkons from Oklahoma. Better than Gill or Weis did and about the same as Mangino did IMO.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Mangino had a decent plan of success in those areas and he started getting into others, including California and Florida. Even Weis made strides in Hawaii. I guess maybe that's why we are more in Mississippi, too?
Louisiana obviously has been a new area they've focused on for 2 years in a row now and now they're hitting the Mississippi JUCO's too. Though we do have 1 preferred walkon (who had other full D-1 offers) from Mississippi on the roster now in Boatner. I think he's got a good shot at becoming a regular on the 2 deep before he's finished here also.

It looked like they were taking a stab at expanding our recruiting into Georgia and Florida last year, but that seems to have quieted down some this class. Not sure why.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I'm worried that Beaty will start cutting staff and/or staff will start jumping ship soon after this season is over.
I'm not sure if coach Beaty has plans to cut staff, but it might be telling if a rash of staff leave on their own.
Posted by: namohcan_99

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/25/17 02:09 AM

I don't know Girod but I have neither a favorable or unfavorable opinion of him. But if he believes KU has a real chances to show true improvement by next season, that we are building something long-term, I probably will think we will continue to make the same mistakes and deserve what we get.

I disagree about Texas. If we were comparing to Mangino what Beaty has done this far with Texas recruiting, are we on the same pace?

What are the top 10 Kansas high school players we got from last year? Year before that? Year before that? How did that stack up to KSU's? Is KSU's KS recruits today larger than ours? Why is that?

I will admit Oklahoma was a bit hard for Mangino but Mangino did better than 4. And Weis never really targeted Oklahoma, and God only knows about Gill.

Yeah, that's fine with LA and MS recruits, though I don't know if jucos is the way to go because it seemed with every coach, even Mangino had a 50/50 with them either working out well, or completely flaming out.

It sounds like we are in agreement about staff. I'd look to this offseason because there is a lot of talk about next year being Beaty's last as you have said and I believe to be true. Losing coaches in the offseason would just add to an already serious problem.
Posted by: KUHawkhead

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/25/17 07:27 AM

Bring back Beaty, and you're only prolonging the inevitable. There will be less than 15k every game if this clueless moron is back.
RCJHKU!
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/28/17 02:00 AM

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I disagree about Texas. If we were comparing to Mangino what Beaty has done this far with Texas recruiting, are we on the same pace?
We had 21 players from Texas on Mangino's last team at KU in 2009. 17 recruited scholarship guys and 4 walkons.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
What are the top 10 Kansas high school players we got from last year? Year before that? Year before that? How did that stack up to KSU's? Is KSU's KS recruits today larger than ours? Why is that?
ksu currently has 9 recruited scholarship players from the state of Kansas on their team by my count, but they do have quite a few more walkons from the state of Kansas than KU does. A little more than twice as many. So, a couple less recruited scholarship guys, but a ton more walkons.

Most years, the state of Kansas has between 6 to 10(only about 5 this year) potential P-5 level guys(right out of HS) so I'd say the top 5 instate prospects each year are the top of the top and over the past 4 classes (including this upcoming one) a little more than 1/2 have gone out of state. The others have been split about equally between KU and ksu.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I will admit Oklahoma was a bit hard for Mangino but Mangino did better than 4. And Weis never really targeted Oklahoma, and God only knows about Gill.
Can't think of any off hand under Gill or Weis, but I believe there was 1 or 2 over those years. There were 6 recruited scholarship players from the state of Oklahoma on Magino's last team at KU and 4 more walkons, so he did have a few more than Beaty has.
Posted by: namohcan_99

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/29/17 12:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I disagree about Texas. If we were comparing to Mangino what Beaty has done this far with Texas recruiting, are we on the same pace?
We had 21 players from Texas on Mangino's last team at KU in 2009. 17 recruited scholarship guys and 4 walkons.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
What are the top 10 Kansas high school players we got from last year? Year before that? Year before that? How did that stack up to KSU's? Is KSU's KS recruits today larger than ours? Why is that?
ksu currently has 9 recruited scholarship players from the state of Kansas on their team by my count, but they do have quite a few more walkons from the state of Kansas than KU does. A little more than twice as many. So, a couple less recruited scholarship guys, but a ton more walkons.

Most years, the state of Kansas has between 6 to 10(only about 5 this year) potential P-5 level guys(right out of HS) so I'd say the top 5 instate prospects each year are the top of the top and over the past 4 classes (including this upcoming one) a little more than 1/2 have gone out of state. The others have been split about equally between KU and ksu.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I will admit Oklahoma was a bit hard for Mangino but Mangino did better than 4. And Weis never really targeted Oklahoma, and God only knows about Gill.
Can't think of any off hand under Gill or Weis, but I believe there was 1 or 2 over those years. There were 6 recruited scholarship players from the state of Oklahoma on Magino's last team at KU and 4 more walkons, so he did have a few more than Beaty has.


Just to be clear, Mangino was also making good in-roads with some good recruiting locations such as Florida and up in Ohio and Illinois. I don't see that with Beaty. Also, Mangino wasn't recruiting many jucos by the time he left. And if I remember, that was something Zenger and Beaty were in agreement on that we need more high school recruits. Now we are going back to recruiting jucos, something that Weis did that never fixed any of our gaping holes. They just put some band-aids on some very poor positions due to a lack of depth, and other various reasons.

And the number of Kansas players on K-State over KU is large. I don't care if they are walk-ons because several of those walk-ons really developed into key positions. Geary is a good example of that. We don't have a good walk-on process, which is something I complained about early. We pushed out kids from Kansas who wanted to be on this team to rebuild. We cut kids of KU legends like Seuer. I want kids who want to be at Kansas.

I may have misstated something, because I thought I was comparing Mangino's recruiting of Oklahoma versus Beaty's. Mangino did a great job with Oklahoma.

I think Beaty is in over his head. I think the point of this thread which was about his statement against the captains is a good explanation of his coaching style. If the media or whomever didn't make a big thing of it, which I don't think it was that big of a thing, this would have made no difference. I think it sent a strong message to the players form the captains that we can compete. Apparently not on offense, but at least for a while on defense we did. If it worked, we'd be singing the praises of the captains and Beaty would be taking credit saying we are getting there with another big win.

There is no consistency other than KU remains strongly inconsistent. I don't see a point in giving Beaty a fourth year to repeat and get 1 or 2 wins, or worse, none. I don't see any power 5 program allowing this. I think Beaty got a fair shot. I think that experiment is over. Maybe he's better as a WR coach or an offensive coordinator. I don't care. He's not met his goals.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 11/30/17 09:03 AM

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
Just to be clear, Mangino was also making good in-roads with some good recruiting locations such as Florida and up in Ohio and Illinois. I don't see that with Beaty. Also, Mangino wasn't recruiting many jucos by the time he left. And if I remember, that was something Zenger and Beaty were in agreement on that we need more high school recruits. Now we are going back to recruiting jucos, something that Weis did that never fixed any of our gaping holes. They just put some band-aids on some very poor positions due to a lack of depth, and other various reasons.
Yep, Mangino signed 4 JUCO's in both of his final 2 classes at KU. Without checking the details, I believe that's fewer than in any class since Mangino's final recruiting class at KU.

I've said it several times now, I'd like no more than about 5 or so JUCO's per year and Beaty has averaged 7 per year so far which is a couple more than I'd like.

I've also said several times that Weis recruited way more JUCO's (about 13 per year) than Beaty has so far and Weis recruited almost exclusively 2x2 or 3x2 summer grad JUCO's who are the riskier ones to sign. He also took big chances on a bunch of talented JUCO's with other issues who never contributed a thing to KU because their other issues sank them. Nothing at all like the JUCO's Beaty has been signing who have almost all been early mid-year grads and quite a few have been 4x3 or 3x3 guys as well as qualifiers out of HS(i.e. guys who chose the JUCO route and not forced to the JUCO route). Still a couple more per year than I'd prefer, but I've got no real issue with taking a 4x3 or 3x3 JUCO midyear early grad over a HS recruit if the coaches think he's a better recruit as there's only 1 year of eligibility difference between the 2 as well as only about 1 year difference in how much time they'll ultimately spend in our program.

I think he's felt with our horrible roster situation he had to get more JUCO's than he wanted to just to field a team. Just my guess from everything I've heard him say about the subject over the years and I'm not endorsing taking as many as he did, but rather giving my best guess on why he did.

Originally Posted By: namochan_99
And the number of Kansas players on K-State over KU is large. I don't care if they are walk-ons because several of those walk-ons really developed into key positions. Geary is a good example of that. We don't have a good walk-on process, which is something I complained about early. We pushed out kids from Kansas who wanted to be on this team to rebuild. We cut kids of KU legends like Seuer. I want kids who want to be at Kansas.
Virtually all of what you mentioned happened under Weis and not at all has been happening under Beaty. Beaty in fact has gone out of his way to recruit within the state for both walkons and scholarship players. They've visited just about every single high school within the state at least once a year every year Beaty has been here. They've visited schools and talked to coaches that neither KU nor ksu has visited or talked to in years, even decades. Believe me, they've even far out worked and visited way more schools than ksu has over that same time period. Any failures to get more Kansas guys to walkon or sign with KU under Beaty haven't been for a lack of effort or trying.

I agree ksu has A TON more walkon guys from within the state of Kansas than KU does and I'd like to see that change also, but it's certainly not the case right now because Beaty has ignored recruiting within the state or not made the effort to recruit within the state.

Originally Posted By: namochan_99
I may have misstated something, because I thought I was comparing Mangino's recruiting of Oklahoma versus Beaty's. Mangino did a great job with Oklahoma.
Nah, I just threw in Gill and Weis for comparison sake as to how much KU has or hasn't recruited Oklahoma since Mangino. Gill and Weis more or less didn't recruit the state of Oklahoma at all. Beaty is doing a decent job at it, but not as good of a job as Mangino.

Originally Posted By: namochan_99
I think Beaty is in over his head. I think the point of this thread which was about his statement against the captains is a good explanation of his coaching style. If the media or whomever didn't make a big thing of it, which I don't think it was that big of a thing, this would have made no difference. I think it sent a strong message to the players form the captains that we can compete. Apparently not on offense, but at least for a while on defense we did. If it worked, we'd be singing the praises of the captains and Beaty would be taking credit saying we are getting there with another big win.

There is no consistency other than KU remains strongly inconsistent. I don't see a point in giving Beaty a fourth year to repeat and get 1 or 2 wins, or worse, none. I don't see any power 5 program allowing this. I think Beaty got a fair shot. I think that experiment is over. Maybe he's better as a WR coach or an offensive coordinator. I don't care. He's not met his goals.
I think that's about how 90% or more of the KU fanbase feels right now.
Posted by: namohcan_99

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 11:26 AM

I think you glossed over the point of Beaty being hired for a large reason being so well connected in the State of Texas on recruiting. I do feel like we are pushing more jucos to fill holes which I think again glosses over the point that our system of development is not good. As far as Kansas recruits, you are right, Weis is a large part of why we are at where we are at, and that is true for the jucos, too, but I also think it's an excuse we are using to keep Beaty because the job to get KU back to a winning program is a GIGANTIC endeavor. But is Beaty getting there? I hope you are part of the 90% who think Beaty is in over his head. This is not his forte to get this program up and running. I'm saying we need a coach who is great at building something out of nothing. That's what KU needs and Beaty is not that. I'll concede that Beaty has made inroads with Kansas kids, but you have to agree the number of kids versus K-State is quite large at least 2 to 1 if not 3 to 1. We have to fix that. Building recruiting in those 3 States I think is important because that's where a majority of the Big XII is currently. It only makes sense.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 12:18 PM

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I think you glossed over the point of Beaty being hired for a large reason being so well connected in the State of Texas on recruiting.
That was a big part in why Zenger said he was hired, yes. I think Beaty did a decently good job at using those connections in his first 3 classes, but not so much in this latest class. Seems we've taken several Louisiana recruits over some Texas ones in this class.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I do feel like we are pushing more jucos to fill holes which I think again glosses over the point that our system of development is not good.
I think it's more a reflection of a few things. One, they've missed on some of the HS recruits from previous classes. Two, they missed out on some HS recruits in the past 2 classes that would have hopefully been filling these holes. Three, they're still trying to deal with the final effects of the giant roster hole they inherited.

To me, the only unit that appears to me there's a good argument of lack of player development has been our OL. They're young and inexperienced and have had some injury problems, but some guys don't look to have developed much either.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
As far as Kansas recruits, you are right, Weis is a large part of why we are at where we are at, and that is true for the jucos, too,
Mangino recruited Oklahoma really well. Gill didn't recruit Oklahoma much. Weis didn't recruit Oklahoma at all. Beaty has been trying to recruit Oklahoma and has had some success.

That's my take on the last 4 coach's Oklahoma recruiting. I'm with you, I think it's an important state for us to keep recruiting and I'm glad Beaty is at least trying to recruit there. I wouldn't blame the drop off in OK recruiting all on Weis either, but on both him and Gill. I'd also like it if Beaty could be more successful there too, but with Okie St. doing the best they've ever done in their program history it's made it more difficult to be successful there as a lot of the OK guys OU doesn't go after now want an Okie St. offer almost as much as they did an OU offer.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
But is Beaty getting there?
Doesn't look like it so far.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I'll concede that Beaty has made inroads with Kansas kids, but you have to agree the number of kids versus K-State is quite large at least 2 to 1 if not 3 to 1. We have to fix that. Building recruiting in those 3 States I think is important because that's where a majority of the Big XII is currently. It only makes sense.
I agree.

I'm not against recruiting Louisiana and any other recruiting hotbed either though. As long as we've got legit shots at getting guys from those areas and aren't spending too many resources in them to the detriment of recruiting our backyard and primary Big 12 footprint (the 3 states you mentioned plus Missouri).
Posted by: track

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I think you glossed over the point of Beaty being hired for a large reason being so well connected in the State of Texas on recruiting.
That was a big part in why Zenger said he was hired, yes. I think Beaty did a decently good job at using those connections in his first 3 classes, but not so much in this latest class. Seems we've taken several Louisiana recruits over some Texas ones in this class.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I do feel like we are pushing more jucos to fill holes which I think again glosses over the point that our system of development is not good.
I think it's more a reflection of a few things. One, they've missed on some of the HS recruits from previous classes. Two, they missed out on some HS recruits in the past 2 classes that would have hopefully been filling these holes. Three, they're still trying to deal with the final effects of the giant roster hole they inherited.

To me, the only unit that appears to me there's a good argument of lack of player development has been our OL. They're young and inexperienced and have had some injury problems, but some guys don't look to have developed much either.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
As far as Kansas recruits, you are right, Weis is a large part of why we are at where we are at, and that is true for the jucos, too,
Mangino recruited Oklahoma really well. Gill didn't recruit Oklahoma much. Weis didn't recruit Oklahoma at all. Beaty has been trying to recruit Oklahoma and has had some success.

That's my take on the last 4 coach's Oklahoma recruiting. I'm with you, I think it's an important state for us to keep recruiting and I'm glad Beaty is at least trying to recruit there. I wouldn't blame the drop off in OK recruiting all on Weis either, but on both him and Gill. I'd also like it if Beaty could be more successful there too, but with Okie St. doing the best they've ever done in their program history it's made it more difficult to be successful there as a lot of the OK guys OU doesn't go after now want an Okie St. offer almost as much as they did an OU offer.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
But is Beaty getting there?
Doesn't look like it so far.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I'll concede that Beaty has made inroads with Kansas kids, but you have to agree the number of kids versus K-State is quite large at least 2 to 1 if not 3 to 1. We have to fix that. Building recruiting in those 3 States I think is important because that's where a majority of the Big XII is currently. It only makes sense.
I agree.

I'm not against recruiting Louisiana and any other recruiting hotbed either though. As long as we've got legit shots at getting guys from those areas and aren't spending too many resources in them to the detriment of recruiting our backyard and primary Big 12 footprint (the 3 states you mentioned plus Missouri).

I am excited for next year..probably makes me one of the 2%. I am hopeful the players can take the next step, I would love to see this coaching staff begin to turn the corner and show real progress. I think they are smart and they work hard.....usually a recipe for success
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I think you glossed over the point of Beaty being hired for a large reason being so well connected in the State of Texas on recruiting.
That was a big part in why Zenger said he was hired, yes. I think Beaty did a decently good job at using those connections in his first 3 classes, but not so much in this latest class. Seems we've taken several Louisiana recruits over some Texas ones in this class.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I do feel like we are pushing more jucos to fill holes which I think again glosses over the point that our system of development is not good.
I think it's more a reflection of a few things. One, they've missed on some of the HS recruits from previous classes. Two, they missed out on some HS recruits in the past 2 classes that would have hopefully been filling these holes. Three, they're still trying to deal with the final effects of the giant roster hole they inherited.

To me, the only unit that appears to me there's a good argument of lack of player development has been our OL. They're young and inexperienced and have had some injury problems, but some guys don't look to have developed much either.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
As far as Kansas recruits, you are right, Weis is a large part of why we are at where we are at, and that is true for the jucos, too,
Mangino recruited Oklahoma really well. Gill didn't recruit Oklahoma much. Weis didn't recruit Oklahoma at all. Beaty has been trying to recruit Oklahoma and has had some success.

That's my take on the last 4 coach's Oklahoma recruiting. I'm with you, I think it's an important state for us to keep recruiting and I'm glad Beaty is at least trying to recruit there. I wouldn't blame the drop off in OK recruiting all on Weis either, but on both him and Gill. I'd also like it if Beaty could be more successful there too, but with Okie St. doing the best they've ever done in their program history it's made it more difficult to be successful there as a lot of the OK guys OU doesn't go after now want an Okie St. offer almost as much as they did an OU offer.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
But is Beaty getting there?
Doesn't look like it so far.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I'll concede that Beaty has made inroads with Kansas kids, but you have to agree the number of kids versus K-State is quite large at least 2 to 1 if not 3 to 1. We have to fix that. Building recruiting in those 3 States I think is important because that's where a majority of the Big XII is currently. It only makes sense.
I agree.

I'm not against recruiting Louisiana and any other recruiting hotbed either though. As long as we've got legit shots at getting guys from those areas and aren't spending too many resources in them to the detriment of recruiting our backyard and primary Big 12 footprint (the 3 states you mentioned plus Missouri).

I am excited for next year..probably makes me one of the 2%. I am hopeful the players can take the next step, I would love to see this coaching staff begin to turn the corner and show real progress. I think they are smart and they work hard.....usually a recipe for success
Ra ra sis-boom-bah!!!
Posted by: moose1

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 01:47 PM

Track I think you would be the only one excited for this staff. I think even the people advocating another year for him has just been for stability purposes and not because they they he could be a good coach.
Posted by: track

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By: moose1
Track I think you would be the only one excited for this staff. I think even the people advocating another year for him has just been for stability purposes and not because they they he could be a good coach.

Probably so....and I agree the stability purpose is a pretty good reason along with another year to stock the cupboard to be more attractive to the next coach along with the indoor facility being completed and the funding for the stadium improvements to be farther along. Everything(in my mind) points to the end of next year being a better time to hire a new coach if that becomes necessary. I do believe the team will be better next year...significantly better too.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 02:15 PM

Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: moose1
Track I think you would be the only one excited for this staff. I think even the people advocating another year for him has just been for stability purposes and not because they they he could be a good coach.

Probably so.
Less than 2 %...
Posted by: namohcan_99

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 04:28 PM

So you are saying there is no reason to terminate Beaty? What about Zenger? You admitted we haven't gotten there so far, but in truth, do you believe Beaty is the guy to get us there and do you trust we will given 1 extra year, as that is what this looks like?

I can't agree with you on player development. The line is a mess and always has been. But the QB situation, that we can't seem to get the right guy to go through the entire season. We've struggled getting the ball past the first down line and is a large reason for our negative yards on offense. That's a problem with the line, sure, but also the QB, the coaching, the receivers not getting open or not being able to run routes, cross traffic, etc. Defense has been up and down. I haven't seen any consistency in any part of this program. Sorry, but if you asked me if we were better from the start of this season to the end, I really am not sure I could say I saw a major change other than our competition got harder. Defense kind of came together some but without an offense that never manifested, they were constantly gassed and some players were giving up late in games.
Posted by: KUHawkhead

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 05:27 PM

I'll look for the Rah Rah posts when we are sitting 0-5 next year getting ready to shitcan the whole mess.

This team sucks and the staff is incompetent.
Posted by: moose1

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 06:47 PM

Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: moose1
Track I think you would be the only one excited for this staff. I think even the people advocating another year for him has just been for stability purposes and not because they they he could be a good coach.

Probably so....and I agree the stability purpose is a pretty good reason along with another year to stock the cupboard to be more attractive to the next coach along with the indoor facility being completed and the funding for the stadium improvements to be farther along. Everything(in my mind) points to the end of next year being a better time to hire a new coach if that becomes necessary. I do believe the team will be better next year...significantly better too.


We have been told for nine years that next year would be better. None of them have been. I am sick of KU pissing on the football fans backs and telling us it is raining. Maybe that is negative, but they have #earnedit.
Posted by: track

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: moose1
Originally Posted By: track
Originally Posted By: moose1
Track I think you would be the only one excited for this staff. I think even the people advocating another year for him has just been for stability purposes and not because they they he could be a good coach.

Probably so....and I agree the stability purpose is a pretty good reason along with another year to stock the cupboard to be more attractive to the next coach along with the indoor facility being completed and the funding for the stadium improvements to be farther along. Everything(in my mind) points to the end of next year being a better time to hire a new coach if that becomes necessary. I do believe the team will be better next year...significantly better too.


We have been told for nine years that next year would be better. None of them have been. I am sick of KU pissing on the football fans backs and telling us it is raining. Maybe that is negative, but they have #earnedit.

I don’t believe we have been told every year is going to be better for nine years. Each year has had its own issues. We did about what I expected the first two years after Weis. I expected more this year but the offensive line and defensive backfield never developed. That happens when you have a young depleted team. You don’t make progress when you have 4 different coaches in 9 years. Each coaching change involves a step backwards. The best programs are usually the ones that have had long periods of stability in the coaching.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 08:16 PM

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
So you are saying there is no reason to terminate Beaty? What about Zenger?
I wasn't trying to make a case either way. I wouldn't have a problem if Zenger got fired, but I do think it would be a mistake to fire Beaty right now. I think you give him next year for a lot of reasons that'll help the program overall in the longer run even if he falls flat on his face next year.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
You admitted we haven't gotten there so far, but in truth, do you believe Beaty is the guy to get us there and do you trust we will given 1 extra year, as that is what this looks like?
I've got more doubts than confidence. Really hope my doubts are wrong because he's at least getting next year regardless of what any of us think.

Originally Posted By: namohcan_99
I can't agree with you on player development. The line is a mess and always has been. But the QB situation, that we can't seem to get the right guy to go through the entire season. We've struggled getting the ball past the first down line and is a large reason for our negative yards on offense. That's a problem with the line, sure, but also the QB, the coaching, the receivers not getting open or not being able to run routes, cross traffic, etc. Defense has been up and down. I haven't seen any consistency in any part of this program. Sorry, but if you asked me if we were better from the start of this season to the end, I really am not sure I could say I saw a major change other than our competition got harder. Defense kind of came together some but without an offense that never manifested, they were constantly gassed and some players were giving up late in games.
I agree most units were inconsistent much of the year. I think that's in large part a reflection of youth and inexperience.

The OL injuries and other problems they had made the entire O look bad. If we had more experience as well as less injuries on the OL, I believe our O would have been much more consistent and would have kept producing at a similar rate to what it did in the first part of the season. I also disagree about our WR's not running good routes or getting open. Sims, Fairs, Patrick, and Johnson (Yeah a TE, but mostly a pass catching TE in our scheme) all got open plenty. Our QB's were either scrambling, or ducking down to try and save their lives while getting sacked to get them the ball consistently. Bender really struggles under any kind of pressure too. I guess I will amend my initial comment about what units progressed and say you could also argue the QB's didn't even though I think if they had an adequate OL they would have at least stayed consistent.

On D, I'd say the secondary and the DL both were playing markedly better in the second half of the season than the first. The LB's played about the same throughout IMO.

There were still too many coaching mistakes and general team failures. Combine that with injuries on an already thin team still as well as a ton of youth/inexperience and we get what we got. Plenty to not be happy with and I don't think anyone is, including me.
Posted by: namohcan_99

Re: Beaty's qualified apology - 12/01/17 08:34 PM

Originally Posted By: KUHawkhead
I'll look for the Rah Rah posts when we are sitting 0-5 next year getting ready to shitcan the whole mess.

This team sucks and the staff is incompetent.


But we say that every year. Honestly, the fan base has done what we said, it's gone down, at least in the stands. I don't think the fans have the confidence in KU fielding a winning team. I was hopeful that Beaty at least would move us in the right direction. I don't know how to feel about what I have heard and seen from Beaty. I think he's out of his element. This is a big task that is going to take the right guy and it can't just be anybody. There are only a few coaches I can think of that can do this and we can get some of them. I just don't think we will because we have an AD who is also over his head and I don't know about this chancellor but it seems this is a bad design. The AD is easier to replace than the coach. Should be thinking of getting an AD in who can make the right hire and Zenger has proven twice now that he cannot do that.