Bowen's Replacement

Posted by: pizzanbeer

Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 03:23 PM

Has anyone looked at passing defense stats at other schools to identify Bowen's replacement?

I'm not sure we could hire Chris Ball away from Memphis but he looks like a good fit. Memphis ranked #9 in yards allowed per passing attempt last season. He coaches safeties and also is the DC at Memphis and prior to that he was co-DC at ASU. His bio says he coached at Coffeyville CC from 90-94 so he knows the area.
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 04:19 PM

The first name that's going to come up is Kevin Kane especially after beating Nebraska.
Posted by: kylecof11

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 04:43 PM

IF Bowen is gone, Kane is the logical and likely replacement. Comes back to his alma mater as one of the top guys on the staff. He'll jump at the opportunity. Loved having him as a LB coach a couple of years back and then he got a promotion to go run a defense, and a defense that has been pretty good.
Posted by: beenahawk

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Has anyone looked at passing defense stats at other schools to identify Bowen's replacement?

I'm not sure we could hire Chris Ball away from Memphis but he looks like a good fit. Memphis ranked #9 in yards allowed per passing attempt last season. He coaches safeties and also is the DC at Memphis and prior to that he was co-DC at ASU. His bio says he coached at Coffeyville CC from 90-94 so he knows the area.



Bowen isn't going ANYWHERE. 1) It was a package deal when DB was hired (had to keep Clint) 2) DB and CB are best friends. 3) It's going to take a Zenger firing to put anything on the FB side in motion.
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 05:40 PM

1) Another reason Zenger needs to kick rocks
2) No room for BFFs if it gets in the way of KU wins
3) Agreed.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By: beenahawk
Bowen isn't going ANYWHERE. 1) It was a package deal when DB was hired (had to keep Clint) 2) DB and CB are best friends. 3) It's going to take a Zenger firing to put anything on the FB side in motion.


AT 3-26 it is all about self preservation for Zenger and Beaty. Keeping Bowen guarantees they both lose their jobs.

Kane was the easy option for Bowen's replacement. Why would Kane take the job at KU when he has a stable situation at N. Illinois? The same question applies to Ball at Memphis so he is probably not an option either.

Beaty should be looking for a good DC or safeties coach on a team where the HC is on the hot seat to get fired at the end of the season.
Posted by: track

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: beenahawk
Bowen isn't going ANYWHERE. 1) It was a package deal when DB was hired (had to keep Clint) 2) DB and CB are best friends. 3) It's going to take a Zenger firing to put anything on the FB side in motion.


AT 3-26 it is all about self preservation for Zenger and Beaty. Keeping Bowen guarantees they both lose their jobs.

Kane was the easy option for Bowen's replacement. Why would Kane take the job at KU when he has a stable situation at N. Illinois? The same question applies to Ball at Memphis so he is probably not an option either.

Beaty should be looking for a good DC or safeties coach on a team where the HC is on the hot seat to get fired at the end of the season.

Personally, I am not giving up on the defense yet. I thought the tackling was much improved against West Virginia. This team is young so there is plenty yet to learn as they are a work in process. I thought the guys played hard but that QB was an elusive sucker.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 07:56 PM

If Bielema gets fired at Arkansas how would everyone feel about hiring Paul Rhoads? Arkansas ranks # 19 in passing yards per attempt this season and he is their DC and defensive backs coach. Last season Arkansas ranked # 101 for yards per passing attempt so now I am second guessing this idea. Of course we would have to provide him with counseling every season before we play ISU. He also was the DC at Pittsburgh and Auburn.
Posted by: MNJhawk

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 08:11 PM

Bill young might be available- If he doesn't retire.

His defenses haven't been great since he left Kansas but I'm sure he would be a popular hire
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 08:12 PM

If Ed Orgeron gets the boot at LSU then maybe we could get their DB coach Corey Raymond. LSU was ranked # 27 on passing yards per attempt last season. Raymond played CB in the NFL for 6 seasons and this is his 6th season of coaching DBs at LSU. Hiring him would help our recruiting in Louisiana and also could help us with Corione Harris.
Posted by: vmlb

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 08:38 PM

The list of great replacements is endless. DCs are standing in line to take a job for a program that has the fans calling for the firing of the AD and HC.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By: vmlb
The list of great replacements is endless. DCs are standing in line to take a job for a program that has the fans calling for the firing of the AD and HC.


It is a tricky hire. Beaty could make Perry DC and then hire a good coach for safeties. That is not the perfect solution but it helps with coaching DBs.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 10:18 PM

Have it on good word that Saban has quietly accepted the job as new DC on the down low. It'll be kept secret until after the season when they'll unveil him at the grand opening of the new indoor practice facility next June. When they open the doors and let the media in to see the facility he'll pop out of a cake with sparklers and a big Jayhawk mascot head shaped hat that says "New DC" across the forehead in the middle of the indoor field.
Posted by: moose1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/25/17 10:39 PM

If Bowen is gone it is because Beaty is gone.

Right or wrong they are tied together.

Not to mention Beaty has had 3 offensive coordinators in 3 years on the offensive side of the ball. You only get so many mulligans with coordinators, and I think Beaty has had his. For all those complaining about time and needing consistency at the coaching position some of you are awful quick to replace coordinators. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. The coordinators need to stay in place to gain consistency. That or just fire Beaty and the whole staff. I don't care either way.

Of course I am not a believer you need to have a coach for 5 years. Very seldom does it take that long. As some have pointed out Beaty deserves a little more leeway with how Weis left the team.
Posted by: vmlb

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/26/17 08:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Have it on good word that Saban has quietly accepted the job as new DC on the down low. It'll be kept secret until after the season when they'll unveil him at the grand opening of the new indoor practice facility next June. When they open the doors and let the media in to see the facility he'll pop out of a cake with sparklers and a big Jayhawk mascot head shaped hat that says "New DC" across the forehead in the middle of the indoor field.


Will he bring his DC with him to coach the safeties? That should be part of the deal.
Is it possible we will lose our star WR and OT when he takes the job?
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/26/17 09:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Have it on good word that Saban has quietly accepted the job as new DC on the down low. It'll be kept secret until after the season when they'll unveil him at the grand opening of the new indoor practice facility next June. When they open the doors and let the media in to see the facility he'll pop out of a cake with sparklers and a big Jayhawk mascot head shaped hat that says "New DC" across the forehead in the middle of the indoor field.
So it's got to be Clint or Saban as 2018 DC? More glitter from a unicorn...
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/26/17 09:12 AM

Originally Posted By: moose1
If Bowen is gone it is because Beaty is gone.


This would be true except you have extenuating circumstances with KU where Zenger is tied to Beaty, so Beaty will get extra chances to get it right even if that means Bowen is the sacrificial lamb.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/26/17 10:11 AM

Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Have it on good word that Saban has quietly accepted the job as new DC on the down low. It'll be kept secret until after the season when they'll unveil him at the grand opening of the new indoor practice facility next June. When they open the doors and let the media in to see the facility he'll pop out of a cake with sparklers and a big Jayhawk mascot head shaped hat that says "New DC" across the forehead in the middle of the indoor field.
So it's got to be Clint or Saban as 2018 DC? More glitter from a unicorn...
What don't you understand?

Saban has already accepted the job. There's going to be sparklers, a cake and everything!
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/26/17 11:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Have it on good word that Saban has quietly accepted the job as new DC on the down low. It'll be kept secret until after the season when they'll unveil him at the grand opening of the new indoor practice facility next June. When they open the doors and let the media in to see the facility he'll pop out of a cake with sparklers and a big Jayhawk mascot head shaped hat that says "New DC" across the forehead in the middle of the indoor field.
So it's got to be Clint or Saban as 2018 DC? More glitter from a unicorn...
What don't you understand?

Saban has already accepted the job. There's going to be sparklers, a cake and everything!
The old DC CB is going to be the new Alabama coach since he is in such demand everywhere in America...
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/26/17 11:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Saban has already accepted the job. There's going to be sparklers, a cake and everything!


How's this going to work with the clear bag policy?
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/26/17 01:31 PM

Saban makes his own rules.
Posted by: vmlb

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/27/17 04:37 PM

Wasn't it part of the original Beaty hire? DB can fire CB only if he replaces him with Saban. That's what his contract said, unless it was changed last year when they reupped it.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/27/17 10:24 PM

If Sumlin is out at aTm then Beaty might consider Ron Cooper. He has been coaching for 30 years and most of that was with DBs. A lot of his recent experience was in the southeast in Florida, Louisiana and S. Carolina so he should have recruiting connections that could help us.
Posted by: moose1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/28/17 01:14 AM

Originally Posted By: vmlb
Wasn't it part of the original Beaty hire? DB can fire CB only if he replaces him with Saban. That's what his contract said, unless it was changed last year when they reupped it.


I thought it was Bear Bryant's ghost.
Posted by: DrGreydog

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/28/17 10:58 AM

Bring Dave Campo from retirement....
Posted by: John_Brown

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/28/17 11:54 AM

Originally Posted By: track


Personally, I am not giving up on the defense yet. I thought the tackling was much improved against West Virginia. This team is young so there is plenty yet to learn as they are a work in process. I thought the guys played hard but that QB was an elusive sucker.


I'm w/ you on this. The defense improved substantially last fall after disastrous 2016 UofOhio debacle to the point it actually started to making key stops by the end of the year. HassanDefense looks to be getting up to the speed of Div 1A receivers. UofWV's slot guy just killed us all afternoon. Our NB/safeties need to get more assignment sound. W/ just a few more stops and an offense that seems capable of putting 30 points on the board every Saturday, we can get 2 more wins in Big 12 play which would save Beaty/Bowen/DrZ's jobs.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou
Posted by: INation

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/28/17 12:41 PM

Everyone seems to be wanting to hire a guy who recruits SEC county, but once realignment occurs again we will not be in a league that has teams in those areas. We need to start hiring coaches from areas that we could land.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/28/17 05:00 PM

Originally Posted By: INation
Everyone seems to be wanting to hire a guy who recruits SEC county, but once realignment occurs again we will not be in a league that has teams in those areas. We need to start hiring coaches from areas that we could land.


The coach that replaces Bowen needs to be a good coach first and a good recruiter second because we won't get the most talented players. We want a coach with recruiting connections in the southeast because that is where the most quality players are located. We would recruit in other areas of the US if the players that we wanted were located there. Do you think Harbaugh went on his nationwide recruiting tour for fun? Or because there was not enough talent in Big 10 states so he needed to cast a wider net?

http://www.thewolverinedaily.com/recruiting-analyzing-the-differences-between-harbaugh-and-hoke/
Posted by: 58hawk

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/28/17 06:53 PM

Hire Dirk Wedd the retiring coach at LHS.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/28/17 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Hire Dirk Wedd the retiring coach at LHS.
If we are going with golden oldies, Campo is a better fit. FYI I went to school with Dirk. Good guy
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/30/17 04:36 PM

I could see TN Vols replace their HC after this season so their DBs coach would be available. Their DBs coach is Charlton Warren and his bio says he led them to a #10 ranking for pass defense last season. He is from Atlanta so he should have recruiting connections in the southeast. Warren graduated from the Air Force academy so he should fit in well with the experience Hull had at NASA.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 09/30/17 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
If Ed Orgeron gets the boot at LSU then maybe we could get their DB coach Corey Raymond. LSU was ranked # 27 on passing yards per attempt last season. Raymond played CB in the NFL for 6 seasons and this is his 6th season of coaching DBs at LSU. Hiring him would help our recruiting in Louisiana and also could help us with Corione Harris.


LSU lost to Troy so it is looking more likely that Beaty will get a chance to hire Raymond.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/01/17 02:32 AM

I know the score was close, but Troy took it to em.

Troy was playing bulldozer football against them for most of the game and winning. They sprang out to a 17-0 lead before LSU got their footing and realized they were in a real game. Too late, but they did come back to make it close.

Troy was way underrated and to me it looked like LSU didn't take them seriously until they got smacked in the mouth a few times by Troy.
Posted by: vmlb

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/01/17 08:11 PM

Barry Odom
Posted by: 58hawk

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/02/17 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
If Ed Orgeron gets the boot at LSU then maybe we could get their DB coach Corey Raymond. LSU was ranked # 27 on passing yards per attempt last season. Raymond played CB in the NFL for 6 seasons and this is his 6th season of coaching DBs at LSU. Hiring him would help our recruiting in Louisiana and also could help us with Corione Harris.


LSU lost to Troy so it is looking more likely that Beaty will get a chance to hire Raymond.
Beaty isn't going to fire Bowen unless he is forced to. Enough of this talk.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/02/17 10:16 PM

Originally Posted By: 58hawk
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
If Ed Orgeron gets the boot at LSU then maybe we could get their DB coach Corey Raymond. LSU was ranked # 27 on passing yards per attempt last season. Raymond played CB in the NFL for 6 seasons and this is his 6th season of coaching DBs at LSU. Hiring him would help our recruiting in Louisiana and also could help us with Corione Harris.


LSU lost to Troy so it is looking more likely that Beaty will get a chance to hire Raymond.
Beaty isn't going to fire Bowen unless he is forced to. Enough of this talk.
It's the only thing Zenger can do, other than resign if Bowen continues to put fishwrap out there week after week. Gravy train has to stop sometime.
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/03/17 11:44 AM

Orgeron isn't going anywhere for a season or two, unless some booster(s) come up with literally a boatload of cash. Coach O's Buyout clause is $12million. Now the assistants and support staff is another story. Gotta cut bait at some point. LSU fans are absolutely FURIOUS over this years debacle. Besides, not so sure any of these guys getting fired would be any sort of upgrade
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/03/17 12:15 PM

LSU's misfortunes could benefit KU still. Kelvin Joseph just decommitted from them and he was one of the guys who visited KU with Jason and Harris. I believe he's also good friends with them too.

I know a lot will say KU is in worse shape or at best no better shape than LSU is right now, but KU is in a good spot to get Joseph IMHO.

Coach O at LSU has a team of top 20 caliber talent and they're playing like a team of middle 60 level talent. Could be 1st year adjustments, etc. or could be he's not a good coach. Seems to me he's not a very good coach as he came in and immediately alienated a bunch of their recruiting connections within the state of Louisiana and some LSU boosters. They're still getting a good share of the Louisiana recruits simply because they're LSU, but it's hurt them in recruiting locally still.

As more proof their in-state recruiting has taken a hit from Orgeron's actions, I know of at least 2 other LSU commits who've inquired about KU behind the scenes. That was a while ago, but it shows that some of their commits were and I believe still are kind of looking around at least. Joseph's decommit just adds to that thought for me.
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/03/17 02:54 PM

I had heard that the DT (Jenkins?) that (de)committed early to KU had reached back out to KU.

Do you know who the other was?

Hopefully it was Kenan Jones.
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/03/17 04:25 PM

LSU futility this year and ineptitude will be some other schools' fortune. But probably in the SEC. Fortunately, some of the closer schools like Ole Miss and MS ST have shown they are having issues as well, and the impending doom that looms over Ole Miss could send recruits scattering. Florida State not exactly setting it off either with a late win V Wake(but I will say Wake looked solid in that game, and would prolly light us up by 20-28).

The connection with Hull might be enough to keep these current commits on board, and maybe get one or two more from the bayou, but I would think there needs to be discernable improvements over the next several games(i.e., season).
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/03/17 06:00 PM

Official attendance numbers are declining SEMO 32k, CMU 28k, WV 24k. After watching Bowens defense I do not see another win on the schedule. I expect attendance numbers will continue to decline except when the KSUck fans invade Lawrence for their epic beat down of KU. How many points and yards will Bowens defense have to give up to get him fired? KU football is unwatchable because of his pathetic defense.

I agree that we cannot get the DB coach from LSU. Orgerons buyout is too big so he will be there next year. That LSU AD was stupid to agree to such a large buyout for Orgeron.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/03/17 08:48 PM

Coach O was seen as a home run hire by a lot of LSU insiders so it seemed smart to lock him in at the time.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/03/17 08:51 PM

Originally Posted By: dgless21
I had heard that the DT (Jenkins?) that (de)committed early to KU had reached back out to KU.

Do you know who the other was?

Hopefully it was Kenan Jones.
Wasn't Jones as I recall it.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/03/17 10:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Jman1
LSU futility this year and ineptitude will be some other schools' fortune. But probably in the SEC. Fortunately, some of the closer schools like Ole Miss and MS ST have shown they are having issues as well, and the impending doom that looms over Ole Miss could send recruits scattering. Florida State not exactly setting it off either with a late win V Wake(but I will say Wake looked solid in that game, and would prolly light us up by 20-28).

The connection with Hull might be enough to keep these current commits on board, and maybe get one or two more from the bayou, but I would think there needs to be discernable improvements over the next several games(i.e., season).


You make a good point. With Mizzou, Ark, Ole Miss and LSU having a bad season this is a golden opportunity for Beaty to clean up in recruiting. Too bad Bowens defense is holding him back.
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/04/17 12:13 PM

You mean that Mickey Mouse defense that is usually run at the middle school level? That Defense? Or, lack thereof
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/04/17 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Jman1
You mean that Minnie Mouse defense that is usually run at the pop warner school level? That Defense? Or, lack thereof
FYP
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/04/17 05:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Coach O was seen as a home run hire by a lot of LSU insiders so it seemed smart to lock him in at the time.


I don't know how they could have ever seen him as a "home run hire". For God's sake he went 3-8, 4-8 and 3-9 in his glory days at Ole Miss, including an O-fer in the SEC in his final year of hitting home runs and grand slams
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/04/17 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
Originally Posted By: Jman1
You mean that Minnie Mouse defense that is usually run at the pop warner school level? That Defense? Or, lack thereof
FYP


Thank you. I stand corrected
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/04/17 05:52 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Official attendance numbers are declining SEMO 32k, CMU 28k, WV 24k. After watching Bowens defense I do not see another win on the schedule. I expect attendance numbers will continue to decline except when the KSUck fans invade Lawrence for their epic beat down of KU. How many points and yards will Bowens defense have to give up to get him fired? KU football is unwatchable because of his pathetic defense.

I agree that we cannot get the DB coach from LSU. Orgerons buyout is too big so he will be there next year. That LSU AD was stupid to agree to such a large buyout for Orgeron.


Hey I have an admirer on the Phog site. Dion Chalupa cut and pasted my post to start a new thread, "Bowen's Last Stand" and pretended like he wrote it.

https://scout.com/college/kansas/Board/103723/Contents/Bowens-Last-Stand-108399936
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/04/17 11:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Jman1
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Coach O was seen as a home run hire by a lot of LSU insiders so it seemed smart to lock him in at the time.


I don't know how they could have ever seen him as a "home run hire". For God's sake he went 3-8, 4-8 and 3-9 in his glory days at Ole Miss, including an O-fer in the SEC in his final year of hitting home runs and grand slams
From the outside looking in (our perspective) it didn't look like a home run hire, but to a lot of the insiders at LSU it did for several reasons. His long standing ties to LSU and the area in general, his reputation as a great recruiter, his good and extensive experience, the players on the team by and large loved him in contrast to Miles, and the apparent success he had when he took over on the interim level last year. Not saying every LSU fan or booster thought that way, but quite a few did.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 12:01 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Hey I have an admirer on the Phog site. Dion Chalupa cut and pasted my post to start a new thread, "Bowen's Last Stand" and pretended like he wrote it.

https://scout.com/college/kansas/Board/103723/Contents/Bowens-Last-Stand-108399936
I guess you got an account over there or someone told you about that?

Makes you wonder if it's happened to you before but you didn't catch it or if it's happened to any of the rest of us. Weird deal.
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 08:20 AM

Borrowing this from Phog:

It is pretty sad looking at Bowen's tenure as DC.

from http://www.cfbstats.com.

YEAR RANK YPP
2008 90 5.56

2009 76 5.5

2013 97 5.82

2014 109 6.29

2015 128 6.96

2016 109 6.04

2017 118 6.54
Posted by: track

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 10:46 AM

Curious.... are the offensive stats any better?
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 11:42 AM

We're currently ranked 23rd in total offense (per game) this year with 5.99 ypp (best ypg since 2008, best ypp on cfbstats)

106th last year, 4.96 YPP

115th the year before, 4.43 ypp

118th with Weis' last year, 4.62 ypp

119th his last full year, 4.29 ypp

2012 we were 95th. 4.96 per play

2011 106th, 4.65 ypp

2010 112th, 4.32 ypp

2009 25th, 5.73 ypp

2008 21st, 5.94 ypp

So what I'm saying is, don't [censored] up and lose Meacham. Give that man the nicest scooter money can buy.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 12:11 PM

Let me see if I've got this right or not.

In short, KU hasn't been good on D or O or as a team period for about 7 years in a row now?

OK, got it. crazy sick
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 12:21 PM

Just for comparison, in the 3 years (2 under Gill and 1 under Weis) where Bowen wasn't our DC here's how KU ranked.

2010 #103 (out of 120) 6.17ypp
2011 #120 (out of 120) 7.16ypp
2012 #122 (out of 124) 6.78ypp

Our D was crap both with and without him as the DC.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 12:23 PM

The numbers probably wouldn't shift a tremendous amount, but I'd be more curious how our D stacked up if you account for the strength of the O's we faced each year.

Some kind of normalization to better compare year to year. If I have enough time, I may try and tinker with something.
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 12:29 PM

Normally, I agree with you.

However, you can see that hiring a competent OC has GREATLY impacted the offense.

Is there a particular reason we couldn't do the same with defense?

Bowen's been on the staff through all of these seasons where we've struggled. Obviously, no one likes turnover, but at some point the way we've always done it has to go if you want the process to improve. I mean, at some point, you just start saying "It can't get any worse." If that's not when you're ranked 118th against three mediocre teams, when is it?
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
The numbers probably wouldn't shift a tremendous amount, but I'd be more curious how our D stacked up if you account for the strength of the O's we faced each year.


That's great and all, but I don't really see how anyone is expected to be content with dead last, 109th, and 118th in the last three seasons.

Again, not saying I'm wrong or right, but when is it appropriate to attempt a change with repeated negative results?
Posted by: vmlb

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 01:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Just for comparison, in the 3 years (2 under Gill and 1 under Weis) where Bowen wasn't our DC here's how KU ranked.

2010 #103 (out of 120) 6.17ypp
2011 #120 (out of 120) 7.16ypp
2012 #122 (out of 124) 6.78ypp

Our D was crap both with and without him as the DC.


Who was the DC? Where is he now? This is who we should get.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 01:26 PM

I think you missed my point.

I wasn't defending Bowen. The D's under him have not been good at all. I do think looking at the 3 intervening years when he wasn't our DC or even at KU in any capacity sheds some light on the fact that our problems have also gone beyond any of his shortcomings.

I actually think that so far this year, in relation to our roster on D, this is his worse performance while at KU as our DC. We showed some signs during the WVU that things may be getting better and we've had 2 key injuries in the secondary which has really hurt us too, but we still should have played much better on D than we have IMHO. Hopefully with getting Richmond and possibly Cole back we'll continue to improve as I think our O is already improving.

As for wanting to try and normalize the D numbers for a little bit better comparison of the year to year numbers I'm more curious to see if that would show any real differences in our D from year to year. The national ranking probably wouldn't change much but we've faced a murderer's row of O's year in and year out over the past several years and that has to affect things some. Maybe even enough to cover up any real trends with our D.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 01:29 PM

Forgot to say my initial post with the crazy and sick emoticons was in jest.

I think every KU football fan realizes we've had the absolute worse 5 to 7 year stretch in our entire football history over that time frame, so pointing out numbers that smack you in the face with it isn't really a revelation hence the crazy emoticon in jest.

Looking at those numbers does make me sick as does realizing how long we've been so bad is sickening too which lead to the sick emoticon.
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 01:31 PM

As far as the offense being ranked 24th nationally, there are some serious issues in that INTs and turnovers are not in the 24th nationally. Rather are in the bottom of the rankings system. Replace Bender with Stanley if you want improvement there.
Posted by: track

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Forgot to say my initial post with the crazy and sick emoticons was in jest.

I think every KU football fan realizes we've had the absolute worse 5 to 7 year stretch in our entire football history over that time frame, so pointing out numbers that smack you in the face with it isn't really a revelation hence the crazy emoticon in jest.

Looking at those numbers does make me sick as does realizing how long we've been so bad is sickening too which lead to the crazy emoticon.

I think we all knew starting this season that the secondary was going to be weak but we expected the defensive line to help cover this weakness with pressure. To date the biggest disappointment has been the D line as they haven’t put much pressure on the other team or even made many stops in the run game. Who coaches those guys? Maybe everyone overestimated the D lines abilities.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 02:57 PM

It seems everyone has come to the conclusion that we need a new DC and coach for safeties.

Now that you have agreed to the problem what do you believe is the solution? Does Beaty fire Bowen and promote Perry to DC and hire a good safeties coach? Or does Beaty fire Bowen, demote Perry and hire a DC that also coaches safeties?

Has anyone else tried to look at other teams where head coaches are on the hot seat to see if there are any safeties coaches that you want Beaty to hire to replace Bowen? I have found that in general it is easier for people to identify a problem than find a solution.
Posted by: track

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 03:06 PM

"It seems everyone has come to the conclusion that we need a new DC and coach for safeties. "
Some think we need the entire coaching staff and AD replaced. Some think it's just a bowen problem. Some think we lack the overall talent or we are too young or after one game there were numerous charges that the players just didn't try. I hardly think we have settled on one conclusion. One thing we do know....Losing has been going on since the orange bowl year and that covers mangino's last year, 2 years of Gill, 2 years of Weis and 2 years of Beaty. The common theme seems to be no matter who the coach is we lose....so maybe it's the players and the constant change of coaching staffs that makes it impossible to build a sustainable program.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By: vmlb
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Just for comparison, in the 3 years (2 under Gill and 1 under Weis) where Bowen wasn't our DC here's how KU ranked.

2010 #103 (out of 120) 6.17ypp
2011 #120 (out of 120) 7.16ypp
2012 #122 (out of 124) 6.78ypp

Our D was crap both with and without him as the DC.


Who was the DC? Where is he now? This is who we should get.

In 2010 our DC was Carl Torbush who's currently the head coach of East Tennessee State (5-6 last year, his 1st as their HC and 2-2 this year so far). He was previously the DC at Miss. St. and before that DC at aTm and before that at Alabama.
Here's how his D's were.

2009 Miss. St. #77 (out of 118) with 5.67ypp
2005 aTm #99 (out of 117) with 5.97ypp
2004 aTm #45 (out of 117) with 5.02ypp
2003 aTm #95 (out of 117) with 5.90
2002 Alabama #8 (out of 117) with 4.38ypp
2001 Alabama #48 (out of 115) with 5.35ypp

In 2011 our DC was Vic Shealy who's now the HC at Houston Baptist University (12-32 overall there and 1-3 this year so far). He was previously the DC at the University of Richmond and before that the DC at UNLV.
Here's how his D's were:
2009 Richmond #18 (out of 118) with 4.56ypp
2008 UNLV #102 (out of 119) with 6.18ypp
2007 UNLV #77 (out of 119) with 5.65ypp
2006 UNLV #98 (out of 119) with 5.87ypp
2005 UNLV #80 (out of 117) with 5.67ypp

In 2012 our DC was Dave Campo who's now retired. He was previously the DC with the Cleveland Browns and before that DC of the Dallas Cowboys.
Here's how his D's at Cleveland were:
2004 Browns #16 with 5.0ypp
2003 Browns #12 with 5.1ypp
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Does Beaty fire Bowen and promote Perry to DC and hire a good safeties coach? Or does Beaty fire Bowen, demote Perry and hire a DC that also coaches safeties?
No and no.

I don't think coach Beaty will fire Bowen after this year. I think it will take a total and I mean total collapse of the D both the rest of this year and next for that to happen. By total collapse, I mean the rest of this year will have to be as bad or worse than it was in our first 3 games and next year would have to be similar or worse as well.

The 1 wildcard I could see is if Bowen can get things done on the recruiting front. I don't think he's been doing too well there and the latest 2 decommits I believe were both his. If he continues to struggle in the recruiting aspect, that could hasten any decision that coach Beaty makes. Maybe...not 100% confident here, but I could see this as pushing him to make a change if the D continues its struggles.
Posted by: pizzanbeer

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: pizzanbeer
Does Beaty fire Bowen and promote Perry to DC and hire a good safeties coach? Or does Beaty fire Bowen, demote Perry and hire a DC that also coaches safeties?
No and no.

I don't think coach Beaty will fire Bowen after this year. I think it will take a total and I mean total collapse of the D both the rest of this year and next for that to happen. By total collapse, I mean the rest of this year will have to be as bad or worse than it was in our first 3 games and next year would have to be similar or worse as well.

The 1 wildcard I could see is if Bowen can get things done on the recruiting front. I don't think he's been doing too well there and the latest 2 decommits I believe were both his. If he continues to struggle in the recruiting aspect, that could hasten any decision that coach Beaty makes. Maybe...not 100% confident here, but I could see this as pushing him to make a change if the D continues its struggles.


Do you think Beaty should fire Bowen based on the performance of the defense? And please no dancing around the question.
Posted by: Kman_blue

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/05/17 11:28 PM

If it were me, I'd give him until the end of the season and then make the decision. I know, gutsy call, huh?

If the season ended today, I'd be inclined to fire him if I knew I could get a quality replacement. If I had no replacement lined up or wasn't sure I could get someone good, then I'd probably hesitate to do it, but I'd for sure be inquiring to any and all high quality DC's I knew of to see if any were interested and what it would take to get them.

For this year, I don't think I'd do that quite yet though especially if the D improves any. I mean, we did see tangible improvements last year and our D was good enough to win 2 or 3 more games last year. Our O was the problem then. Obviously not the case now, but he's proven he can improve a D throughout the year and I'm inclined to give him a chance to prove it again this year.

He definitely should be on the hot seat at least IMHO.
Posted by: vmlb

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/06/17 12:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Originally Posted By: vmlb
Originally Posted By: Kman_blue
Just for comparison, in the 3 years (2 under Gill and 1 under Weis) where Bowen wasn't our DC here's how KU ranked.

2010 #103 (out of 120) 6.17ypp
2011 #120 (out of 120) 7.16ypp
2012 #122 (out of 124) 6.78ypp

Our D was crap both with and without him as the DC.


Who was the DC? Where is he now? This is who we should get.

In 2010 our DC was Carl Torbush who's currently the head coach of East Tennessee State (5-6 last year, his 1st as their HC and 2-2 this year so far). He was previously the DC at Miss. St. and before that DC at aTm and before that at Alabama.
Here's how his D's were.

2009 Miss. St. #77 (out of 118) with 5.67ypp
2005 aTm #99 (out of 117) with 5.97ypp
2004 aTm #45 (out of 117) with 5.02ypp
2003 aTm #95 (out of 117) with 5.90
2002 Alabama #8 (out of 117) with 4.38ypp
2001 Alabama #48 (out of 115) with 5.35ypp

In 2011 our DC was Vic Shealy who's now the HC at Houston Baptist University (12-32 overall there and 1-3 this year so far). He was previously the DC at the University of Richmond and before that the DC at UNLV.
Here's how his D's were:
2009 Richmond #18 (out of 118) with 4.56ypp
2008 UNLV #102 (out of 119) with 6.18ypp
2007 UNLV #77 (out of 119) with 5.65ypp
2006 UNLV #98 (out of 119) with 5.87ypp
2005 UNLV #80 (out of 117) with 5.67ypp

In 2012 our DC was Dave Campo who's now retired. He was previously the DC with the Cleveland Browns and before that DC of the Dallas Cowboys.
Here's how his D's at Cleveland were:
2004 Browns #16 with 5.0ypp
2003 Browns #12 with 5.1ypp


Thanks for the info. These stats make the point that these DCs were better then CB, when they coached at other places; but were far worse when they coached at KU. All their YPPs were better at other schools. Do these stats even register with the "fire Bowen now" fans?????
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/06/17 01:42 PM

kman is giving the stats that make his case however I'm leery of using Alabama defensive stats to make his case. Or Decampo's NFL stats. How do they equate to real NCAA stats for a school comparable to Kansas? These two examples are completely apples vs oranges...fire Bowen NOW!
Posted by: dgless21

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/06/17 01:44 PM

Yup, at KU, no one has been good. Let's keep the dude we have because there's obviously no point in trying to improve.

If 128th, 109th, and currently 118th isn't a bad enough streak to get you fired as a DC...when is?
Posted by: KUCO_VOC

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/06/17 01:44 PM

If kman wants too, use the same seven years Bowen was DC here compared to DCs ranking against other comparable P1 D1 schools. I bet it's not great, good, or average. Maybe the worst?
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/06/17 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: KUCO_VOC
If kman wants too, use the same seven years Bowen was DC here compared to DCs ranking against other comparable P1 D1 schools. I bet it's not great, good, or average. Maybe the worst?


Looking at the product on the field, IMO, I would have to say over the seven year period CBs defenses statistically would easily rank last amongst the P5 schools. I cannot think of any P5 team that has been even close to this abysmal on defense in the history of the P5. 3rd and 18 for our D is like 4th and an inch for most others, it's almost a foregone conclusion the opponent is going to convert.

just my opinion
Posted by: Jman1

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/06/17 03:24 PM

I know who can fix it though


The Waterboy, Bobby Boucher, From Louisiana.
Posted by: 58hawk

Re: Bowen's Replacement - 10/06/17 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Jman1
I know who can fix it though


The Waterboy, Bobby Boucher, From Louisiana.
"You can do it. All night long".